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View Full Version : Dinner with Peter Gammons...



B in ALB
06-02-04, 01:43 PM
via email from a friend - apparently this guy that wrote this is VERY reliable...

MODS: if this is inappropriate or too long, please delete - there is some interesting stuff in here, though...much debate...

On last thursday i had dinner w/ Peter gammons w/ 8 other guys below is the
notes we compiled...just to see how fast emails travel compare this to the
www.bostondirtdogs.com sight today pretty funny........-A-Rod, not Theo,
John Hart or John Henry, initiated the talks b/w the Sox
> and the Rangers...always wanted to come to Boston...thought it'd be great
> for baseball to have him in Boston and Jeter in NY...wanted to keep Boras
> out of it b/c he didn't want it to get f'd up....just wanted out of Texas.

> Happy to be in NY but would rather be playing in Boston
>
> -Did A-Rod bastardize his career by moving to 3B? Yes
>
> -Schilling is tough to take in the clubhouse...not surprisingly, he's got
> an opinion on everything and it rubs a lot of guys the wrong way. Some of
> the Dbacks who weren't fans of his were out w/ PG once and spoke glowingly

> about! the Big Unit and what a good guy he is...and every one of them, to
a
> man, said if they had to win one game, they'd want Schilling out there.
>
> -Mussina, when he was coming up on Free Agency, told his agent, "I'm going

> to Pennsylvania (his home), make sure I end up with the Yankees...we
> shouldn't take less than $10M/year so anything you can get on top of that
> is fiction anyways...just make it happen" end result ---> $15M/year deal
>
> -Of the 4 Sox F.A's, it'll be Martinez and Varitek that re-sign with the
> team.
>
> -Kris Benson and Billy Koch, while at Clemson, were taking an exam
> together...both were struggling with it and Koch looks to Benson for some
> help. Benson was little, if any, help...Koch gets up and hands the blank
> booklet to the professor, walks back and says to Benson "see you in the
> Major Leagues"...Gammons said that they use that phr! ase every once in a
> while on Baseball Tonight and that's what they're referring to.
>
> -David Ortiz is most likely older than his advertised 28. His locker room
> presence can't be overstated...keeps everyone loose, the whole team loves
> him.
>
> -He thinks Arn Tellem wanted Nomar to take the $15M/yr for 4 when it was
> offered but Nomar's so competitive, he wanted to be paid like Jeter since
> he's had more production and is a better fielder.
>
> -Last off-season, Steinbrenner took Sheffield and Gooden out for dinner
> and over a bunch of bottles of wine, they agreed to a handshake deal to
> bring Sheff to the Yanks...it was only afterwards that Sheff figured out
> what "deferred compensation" means and backed out. A few weeks later,
> Cashman had a deal w/ Vlad Guerrero more or less ironed out w/ only some
> language to be tweaked before making it official...only to have Big Stein
> come in and squash it, saying "we're s! igning Sheffield, not Guerrero".
>
> -Back in the mid 80's when Boggs and Mattingly were vying for the batting
> title, the Yanks played the Sox in the last series of the season. Boggs
> was ahead of Mattingly by a few percentage points and sat a few games out
> with a "bad back"...in the last game of the series, Mattingly needed to go

> 6-for-6 to beat Boggs...first at-bat, he homered, 2nd at-bat, he
> doubled...3rd at-bat, he lined out to RF...on his way back to the dugout,
> Dewey Evans ran by Mattingly and said something to the effect of "It's too

> bad, we were all pulling for you". Boggs = Bad guy.
>
> -Jim Rice will be voted into the HoF by the veterans committee
>
> -Dwight Evans was as good of a defensive outfielder as PG has
> seen...cut-off throws, angles taken on balls, etc.
>
-Carl Everetts' wife got into a fistfight outside Fenway the day that he
he! ad-butted the umpire

-Team has a gag order regarding Nomars' d iagnosis but clearly they got it
wrong out of the gates. He also said that anyone who thinks he's trying to
stick it to the team by sitting out longer than necessary is crazy...he's
hyper-competitive and has too much pride.

-If he had to win one game, this would be his line-up
SP - Schilling
C - Posada
1B - Pujols
2B -Giles
SS - (would be Nomar if healthy) Renteria
3B - A-Rod
LF - Bonds
CF - V. Wells
RF -
Closer - Gagne

-When Manny showed up for camp this year, the 3 owners along with Theo sat
down with him to clear the air and at one point, Ramirez thoughtfully asked
Gammons if he thought Manny was a "cancer" in the clubhouse, as it had been
written. Gammons thinks this off-season caused him to do some real
soul-searching and has re-dedicated himself to enjoy the game more and
embrace Boston rather than keeping it at a distance.

-In reference to the steroid scandal, instead of talking about hitters and
power numbers, he focused mostly on pitchers and how velocity is markedly
down from starters to relievers...another thing he mentioned is how
desperate guys in the minors and overseas are to have just a few seasons
earning Major League money...therefore the desire to stay competitive and do

whatever it takes.

-While Mo Vaughn was MIA a few seasons back, a member of Mets mgmt received
a phone call from a guy in! Chicago who was with him...at Scores, the strip
club.

-Canseco (biggest waste of talent he's seen) thought the ball hitting his
head and bouncing over the fence for the home run was funny and that it'd
make a good highlight....the pitchers on that team hated him for that.
Also, when he pitched in some extra-inning game later in his career, his arm

was dragging so much so that he could barely lift his arm above his head
weeks afterwards.

-Gammons was staying at the same hotel in Hawaii that Mia and Nomar (and
actually Mia's seats are right next to Gammons' at Fenway so he's pretty
tight with her)...they saw on Sportscenter that it looked like he was being
traded, that's the first they heard of it.

-Sox brass is keen on Frank Catalanato from the Jays

-If Mets are out of the playoff race, don't be surprised if Al Leiter comes
up to Boston to pitch at Fenway for the last few months of the season.

-! Players in general LOVE Theo...has a way about him that's very approac
hable
and is always super-prepared for any and all discussions. Loves to have
people surrounding him who will take the other side of arguments re: player
ideas, etc.

-Foulke could've got the same money from Oakland but liked Boston b/c he
liked the way Theo and the mgmt treated him...Bruins game, etc.

-I hate to mention it but in Game 7 of the ALCS last year, Grady Little
unequivocally told Pedro he was done after the 7th inning but then during
the top half of the 8th, decided he wanted Pedro to face Nick Johnson
only...obviously, he faced more than Nick Johnson..and the rest is history

Mark19
06-02-04, 01:59 PM
fascinating, that Arod thing kinda irks me though, as does the thought of Leiter up at Fenway

Espinosa's Glasses
06-02-04, 02:09 PM
My dad had dinner with Jesus... and he told him that smoking doesn't cause cancer... rather ... the heavy breathing does.

Bozidar
06-02-04, 02:11 PM
I always take things that Gammons says with a big heavy grain of salt.

ALWAYS..

He seems like the great aunt rita of baseball. he's always got tons of dirt on people, but no one ever cooberates what he says.

YankeeFan1
06-02-04, 02:11 PM
Interesting stuff. Hard to know how much of it is true, but I do know that Oakland definitely offered Foulke less money per year than Boston did that so part isn't true for sure. The comments about Schilling being a difficult clubhouse guy is not surprising as it has been hinted in the press before. As for Ortiz, I never believed that he was 28 years old any more than I believe that Pujols is 24 years old.

B in ALB
06-02-04, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
I always take things that Gammons says with a big heavy grain of salt.

ALWAYS..

He seems like the great aunt rita of baseball. he's always got tons of dirt on people, but no one ever cooberates what he says.

And you're right - however, the guy cannot be in the position he's in by making up ALL of his claims...Let's put it this way - i've gotten accounts from this guy before and they've always proven true (nostragammons, if you will) - for example, when Gammons went on ESPN and expressed his complete displeasure and surprise that the Yanks signed ARod, this guy called the whole scenario, from the opening rumors to the signing day.

B in ALB
06-02-04, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by YankeeFan1
Interesting stuff. Hard to know how much of it is true, but I do know that Oakland definitely offered Foulke less money per year than Boston did that so part isn't true for sure. The comments about Schilling being a difficult clubhouse guy is not surprising as it has been hinted in the press before. As for Ortiz, I never believed that he was 28 years old any more than I believe that Pujols is 24 years old.

I don't know - i never believe any "offers" unless i see them in writing and have somebody read them to me...

Qlitch
06-02-04, 02:20 PM
Last off-season, Steinbrenner took Sheffield and Gooden out for dinner and over a bunch of bottles of wine, they agreed to a handshake deal to bring Sheff to the Yanks...it was only afterwards that Sheff figured out what "deferred compensation" means and backed out. A few weeks later, Cashman had a deal w/ Vlad Guerrero more or less ironed out w/ only some language to be tweaked before making it official...only to have Big Stein come in and squash it, saying "we're s! igning Sheffield, not Guerrero".


If that's true ... WOW.

MaineSoxFan
06-02-04, 02:23 PM
I like the part about Carl Everett getting into a fistfight outside of Fenway the day he head-butted the umpire.

YankeeFan1
06-02-04, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by B in ALB


I don't know - i never believe any "offers" unless i see them in writing and have somebody read them to me... What if the player admits that he chose one offer over the other because it was for more money and that he had to think of his family? Foulke said this after choosing Boston's offer so there is no disputing this fact, really.

B in ALB
06-02-04, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by MaineSoxFan
I like the part about Carl Everett getting into a fistfight outside of Fenway the day he head-butted the umpire.

Carl Everett's WIFE!!! not Carl!!!

B in ALB
06-02-04, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by YankeeFan1
What if the player admits that he chose one offer over the other because it was for more money and that he had to think of his family? Foulke said this after choosing Boston's offere so there is disputing this fact, really.

At that level of income, i find it hard to believe that a player would still HAVE to think of his family - my only point is that even what you hear directly from a player or owner isn't necessarily scripture, you know?

MaineSoxFan
06-02-04, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by B in ALB


Carl Everett's WIFE!!! not Carl!!!

Sorry, mistype, that's what I meant. That's what makes it so funny.

NDBoston
06-02-04, 02:29 PM
If anyone is interested, I have the recipe for the $250 Neiman Marcus cookies.

:lol:

Bozidar
06-02-04, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by B in ALB
Let's put it this way - i've gotten accounts from this guy before and they've always proven true And yet, he's on TV every night, and you can put money in the bank on the fact that he'll be wrong in 90% of his "done deal" trades he announces.

YankeeFan1
06-02-04, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by B in ALB


At that level of income, i find it hard to believe that a player would still HAVE to think of his family - my only point is that even what you hear directly from a player or owner isn't necessarily scripture, you know? Are you kidding me? The money that Boston offered Foulke was his first big contract at the age of 33, if he had passed it up he would never get that money again. He had just had his first kid and you think that he WOULDN'T think about his family? Why would Foulke lie about taking the offer for more money when even Bean acknowledged that he couldn't match the Boston offer and that he had to hope that Foulke would be willing to take less money, while Boston went out of their way to woo Foulke? That makes absolutely no sense. Look that part of the email was clearly wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong about the Foulke situation. Oakland didn't offer Foulke as much money as Boston. All the parties involved admitted this so I don't get what you are disputing in this particular case.

Jim F.
06-02-04, 02:36 PM
Can anyone else picture Gammons in a ladies hairdresser with his head in one of those drying thingees, chatting it up with all the other people in the store?

-jim

Espinosa's Glasses
06-02-04, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston
If anyone is interested, I have the recipe for the $250 Neiman Marcus cookies.

:lol:

really??? I'll trade you for Irish Potato Candy...

B in ALB
06-02-04, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
And yet, he's on TV every night, and you can put money in the bank on the fact that he'll be wrong in 90% of his "done deal" trades he announces.

I'm talking about the cat that had dinner with ol' pete...not pete...

B in ALB
06-02-04, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston
If anyone is interested, I have the recipe for the $250 Neiman Marcus cookies.

:lol:


Mmmmmm...they're good - i had them at the Phipps Plaza cinema in Atlanta before the premier of Ortiz..er Shrek 2.

Turd Furguson
06-02-04, 03:21 PM
Foulke was on the NESN Extra Innings post game show last week and said flat out that Boston's offer was better than Oakland's as being one of the reasons why he came here.

Wheat
06-02-04, 04:16 PM
I am almost 100% postive that I have seen this before. Perhaps it belongs in snopes.com

parkerstrong
06-02-04, 04:17 PM
To think we had Guerrero and Steinbrenner had to sign Sheffield is ludicris. Hasnt Gammons written at some point that Guerrero wouldnt sign with the Yankees? I remember him saying that, but dont know where. Here he is contradicting himself.

P.S. Imagine having Guerrero instead of Sheffield? With his super arm and all out effort? He is too good.

TyWebb
06-03-04, 10:36 AM
"Did A-Rod bastardize his career by moving to 3B? Yes"

Huh? How so? I don't understand...

YankyDave
06-03-04, 11:05 AM
I sure hope Gammon didn't order bird. Cannabalism is so wrong.

JfromJersey
06-03-04, 11:31 AM
A-Rod happy to be in NY but would rather be playing in Boston?
Didn't he tell Michael Kay he preferred NY to Boston?

silverdsl
06-03-04, 12:15 PM
There was another version of this email that circulated during the off-season or the beginning of the season that claimed to be written by someone who had lunch or dinner with Gammons. It could be completely true as some of the stuff does sound like Gammons-type things but I have to say I'm a bit skeptical given that this is the second email of this nature that has popped up. Of course even if it is real Gammons isn't known for his reliablility.

-Deborah

parkerstrong
06-03-04, 12:32 PM
Even if A-rod would rather be in Boston-he is a Yankee. If someone asks him where would he rather be-what do you expect him to say? Imagine if he was asked today if he would rather be a Red Sox and said yes. The fans wouldnt forgive him. I could understand why Boston was more intriging because he wasnt going to move Jeter but could have moved Nomar. I bet he never thought of changing positions until Cashman called. So of course he wanted to go to Boston first.

YankeeClemens22
06-03-04, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by TyWebb
"Did A-Rod bastardize his career by moving to 3B? Yes"

Huh? How so? I don't understand...

Yeah this one got me the most.

Nobody thought he wasn't a great shortstop, but how did this hurt his career at all? First of all, it gives him a shot at a ring. Second, he's playing 3rd at a gold glove level. And third, he'd probably make it to the HOF based on his offensive numbers alone, should he continue playing at the level he had. So, that makes me wonder as well, how on earth did this hurt his career at all? If anything it shows that he is more talented than anyone thought, because he is able to play yet another position, and also that he is not selfish, and willing to do whatever it takes to win.

WakefieldsCrewSox
06-03-04, 12:47 PM
I agree that its tough to know whats true and whats not out of this bunch. HOWEVER, I dont think that you can necessarily expect the individuals involved to necessarily admit to the truth in these situations. Athletes and members of management are masters of double-talk, and while any number of these things could conceivably be true, it may not be in their best interest to fess up to them (for example, I dont think theres any way ARod would ever admit a preference for Boston to NY- not saying its true or false, it would just never happen). However, that doesnt necessarily mean he doesnt feel that way.

Personally, i thought the most interesting comment was how Schilling can rub guys the wrong way, they love Randy Johnson, but if they had to win one big game, every single one of them wanted Schilling on the mound.

KingMouse
06-04-04, 02:32 AM
A-Rod murdered his career by moving to 3rd. He demonstrated that his heart lies in a ring, nothing else. He is completely self-absorbed, and his actions demonstrate that. Everyone knows that he is a good ballplayer, but his heart is clearly not in the right place.

That out of the way, much of this article could be true. I wouldn't know, cause I'm not a big media figure, which I suspect most of you aren't either...

ChewieTobbacca
06-04-04, 02:56 AM
A-Rod should be a politician

He's the master at speaking to the media

When asked a question he answers it without really answering it

And of course, he can say thigns that can contradict what he said months earlier but no one really cares

flutie22
06-04-04, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by KingMouse
A-Rod murdered his career by moving to 3rd. He demonstrated that his heart lies in a ring, nothing else. He is completely self-absorbed, and his actions demonstrate that. Everyone knows that he is a good ballplayer, but his heart is clearly not in the right place.

That out of the way, much of this article could be true. I wouldn't know, cause I'm not a big media figure, which I suspect most of you aren't either...
i agree that a-rod at third is a sham...why would he move when he's been the best ss in decades? i never really understood that. i can see why you wouldnt want to upset jeter but why not go to the angels or some other contender and be part of something

HighChopper
06-04-04, 04:18 AM
I agree with Gammons on AROD. I think AROD would definitely PREFER to be in boston but is resigned to play in NY. I guess anywhere is better than Texas.

frowndog
06-04-04, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by flutie22

i agree that a-rod at third is a sham...why would he move when he's been the best ss in decades? i never really understood that. i can see why you wouldnt want to upset jeter but why not go to the angels or some other contender and be part of something

well... err... how do I break this to you? New York was the only team who could afford him

Carissa
06-04-04, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by frowndog
well... err... how do I break this to you? New York was the only team who could afford him Boston couldn't find that $2 million per to get him? I find that hard to believe.

B in ALB
06-04-04, 08:40 AM
ARod had one arm in a Sawks jersey until the boston management screwed it up.

KingMouse
06-04-04, 04:43 PM
A-Rod to the Red Sox just didn't make any sense. I personally was devastated to find that he might replace Nomar and Manny, but I know that a lot people wanted it to happen. If they had made the deal, it would have been for the sake of getting the deal done, not for the actual results. If it made sense for the Yankees, well, good for them. But trying to sign a player just to make a deal can be a financial disaster.

frowndog
06-04-04, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Carissa
Boston couldn't find that $2 million per to get him? I find that hard to believe.

I was referring to the post that said that ARod should have gone to the Angels or something. To that, I said that New York was the only to who could afford him. But I stand corrected, you're right, Boston could have afforded him. Good thing they were such cheapskates (of course, it could be argued that they would actually be worse off with Arod)

flymick24
06-04-04, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by frowndog


I was referring to the post that said that ARod should have gone to the Angels or something. To that, I said that New York was the only to who could afford him. But I stand corrected, you're right, Boston could have afforded him. Good thing they were such cheapskates (of course, it could be argued that they would actually be worse off with Arod)

this is very true... a-rod is a great ballplayer, but his skills are not equivalent to that of nomar + manny (especially with the way manny has been tearing it up this season.)

Pedro's cuff
06-05-04, 11:29 AM
-How can someone remember so much detail from a dinner conversation including PG's ultimate lineup?
-The Schilling stuff is recycled from 2 years ago.
-This email had been floating around for a week and bdd.com is the only site I know of that printed it.
-bdd.com is run by a crazy man and is willing to print just about anything if it will generate page hits.

Snopes.com it is.

YClipper5
06-06-04, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by Wheat
I am almost 100% postive that I have seen this before. Perhaps it belongs in snopes.com
I agree. I received this same e-mail about a dinner with Gammons, a few months ago.

cubswin
06-06-04, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by frowndog


I was referring to the post that said that ARod should have gone to the Angels or something. To that, I said that New York was the only to who could afford him. But I stand corrected, you're right, Boston could have afforded him. Good thing they were such cheapskates (of course, it could be argued that they would actually be worse off with Arod)


So now they're cheapskates, but when it comes to discussions about payrolls and the effects on baseball, their the "2nd highest payroll in baseball"... I see.

Personally, I think they had about as good an offseason as could be desired. Filled every weaknes, including spending more than initially "budgeted" to get Foulke and Schilling. I'll take that trade and signing over the ARod deal(s) in a heartbeat.

Yankeeah
06-06-04, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by flymick24


this is very true... a-rod is a great ballplayer, but his skills are not equivalent to that of nomar + manny (especially with the way manny has been tearing it up this season.)

Well if wouldve been A-Rod + another player (possibly Magglio Ordonez) replacing Nomar and Manny.

cubswin
06-06-04, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Yankeeah


Well if wouldve been A-Rod + another player (possibly Magglio Ordonez) replacing Nomar and Manny.



That's true, but I recall seeing analyses that showed the combined expected offense of the 2 new players being about a wash, although the defense would have been a little better.

But the Sox still would have had a FA issue, albeit w/Ordonez.

I still think it was a trade being made for the sake of being made, and I'll take a farm-produced player and a player who has been on the team several years over 2 new guys if talentwise it's basically a wash.

KingMouse
06-06-04, 12:39 PM
I agree totally. Arod also would have been about as far from the face of this team as I can imagine. I can't imagine guys like millar and trot being represented by babyfaced arod. But that's besides the point. Basically, we're much better off with who we have. Also, Boston Dirt Dogs is tremendous.