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View Full Version : Giants at Snakes: Bonds vs Choate with bases juiced



-tz
05-31-04, 09:57 PM
On ESPN 2 now ... could be spectacular. ;)

Rich
05-31-04, 10:00 PM
He could have been our LOOGY, but Torre never gave him the opportunity.

-tz
05-31-04, 10:01 PM
Choate won! Tapper right back to him ... unassisted putout. :P

Dave in MD
05-31-04, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Rich
He could have been our LOOGY, but Torre never gave him the opportunity.

he's too young. You know Torre could never trust a young pitcher. He constantly put him in the position to fail.

patrick.o
05-31-04, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Dave in MD


he's too young. You know Torre could never trust a young pitcher. He constantly put him in the position to fail.
I think Choate may be Torre's biggest failure as the Yankees manager. That kid was brimming with talent and a great handler might have turned him into something special. Joe always tried to get him to do things he couldn't do instead of focusing on what he could do very well and building off it.

Jersey Yankee
05-31-04, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by patrick.o
I think Choate may be Torre's biggest failure as the Yankees manager. That kid was brimming with talent and a great handler might have turned him into something special. Joe always tried to get him to do things he couldn't do instead of focusing on what he could do very well and building off it. You mean like facing A-Rod? You'd have thought that he was Almanzar the way he'd sent him to the wolves against such a powerful righty.

I agree, since instead of getting Jesse "Older than Dirt" Orosco, we could've kept him in, but being used as a lefty specialist.

I hadn't realized that Montreal traded him to Arizona.

parkerstrong
05-31-04, 10:38 PM
Why is there praise for Randy Choate? He got Bonds out once. Choate's numbers
7.47 ERA 2.04 WHIP 2.84 BA 15.2 IP 18 H 14 BB 23 SO
lefties bat .257 against him.

i dont see him as special at all.

Dave in MD
05-31-04, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by parkerstrong
Why is there praise for Randy Choate? He got Bonds out once. Choate's numbers
7.47 ERA 2.04 WHIP 2.84 BA 15.2 IP 18 H 14 BB 23 SO
lefties bat .257 against him.

i dont see him as special at all.

when he was with us Choate performed well against lefties. Torre wouldn't use him because he was young and when he did use him he didn't use him as a lefty specialist. Torre never tried to develop him. He'd rather use the ancient Jesse Orosco.

hobokenfish
05-31-04, 10:47 PM
Nice job by Choate. But considering he has a 7.47 era in 15.2 innings pitched -- along with 14 walks -- I'd say we rightfully cut bait. The guy always had a lot of ability, but never was able to throw strikes. In 2001, he pitched 48.1 innings for the Yanks. I'd say that's giving someone a chance. And in those 48.1 innings, he walked 27 people. In 2002, he walked 15 guys in 22.1 innings for the Yanks. Career whip of 1.46. Not exactly a dependable guy in the pen. I recall multiple occasions where he would be brought in to face a lefty and would walk him. He's now almost 29 years old. I wish him good luck, and hopefully he'll be a late bloomer for Arizona or some other team.

NJASDJDH
05-31-04, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by parkerstrong
Why is there praise for Randy Choate? He got Bonds out once. Choate's numbers
7.47 ERA 2.04 WHIP 2.84 BA 15.2 IP 18 H 14 BB 23 SO
lefties bat .257 against him.

i dont see him as special at all.

He has a 2.58 DIPS, just so you know.

pacewon
05-31-04, 11:06 PM
In his career, he's held lefties to a .198 BAA with 62 K's in 48.2 IP, allowing 1 homer. He definitely could have been useful.

OilCan
05-31-04, 11:14 PM
Man, that was sad.

5-2 Giants, 2 out, 2 men on for the Snakes, 2-2 count on Hillenbrand, and everyone sitting on their hands.

Makes you appreciate East Coast ball.

JeffWeaverFan
05-31-04, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by pacewon
In his career, he's held lefties to a .198 BAA with 62 K's in 48.2 IP, allowing 1 homer. He definitely could have been useful.
He could have been useful with us, but not with Torre managing.

Rocketman
05-31-04, 11:50 PM
Barry Bonds went 1-2 today with a home run and three walks (two intentional).

That's ridiculous. His OBP is around .620 and it's June. His SLG is well over .800. They don't pitch to him at all! It's just not fair or fun to watch whatsoever. Everyone wants to see Bonds in a big moment, to see if he can handle the pressure, to see if he'll do something great. Although he's given a free pass (more often than not) the public, the fans are shafted. The fans don't see his Great Maple Bat splinter the baseball, or even attempt to. Instead, all they get is a good view of his number, 25, as he slowly ambles after ball four.

It's a crime that Peter Magowan hasn't purchased an All-Star slugger to protect Bonds, a crime of which all baseball fans are the victims.

parkerstrong
06-01-04, 12:36 AM
Quote:
"He has a 2.58 DIPS, just so you know."

what is DIPS? i dont know know what it is. anyways i am glad choate isnt a yankee. he isnt dependable. choate allows 2 baserunners per inning. i personally was glad he was in the vazquez trade because i knew he wouldnt be useful for us.

Lefties OBP against Choate this year-.409.
Those numbers are bad. When someone is that wild you can't depend on them in critical situations. (Sounds like Heredia doesn't it?)

NJASDJDH
06-01-04, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by parkerstrong
Quote:
"He has a 2.58 DIPS, just so you know."

what is DIPS? i dont know know what it is. anyways i am glad choate isnt a yankee. he isnt dependable. choate allows 2 baserunners per inning. i personally was glad he was in the vazquez trade because i knew he wouldnt be useful for us.

Lefties OBP against Choate this year-.409.
Those numbers are bad. When someone is that wild you can't depend on them in critical situations. (Sounds like Heredia doesn't it?)

Doesn't sound like Heredia because Heredia never strikes anyone out. DIPS=Defensive Independent Pitching Statistics, basically his ERA based on his walks, homers, Ks. Though Choate has given up a high rate of line drives this season, about 30%, his defense is hurting him WAY more than it should be.

JeffWeaverFan
06-01-04, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by NJASDJDH


Doesn't sound like Heredia because Heredia never strikes anyone out. DIPS=Defensive Independent Pitching Statistics, basically his ERA based on his walks, homers, Ks. Though Choate has given up a high rate of line drives this season, about 30%, his defense is hurting him WAY more than it should be.
To add on to that, DIPS or dERA has been proven to measure a pitcher better then ERA. If you look at a pitchers dERA and ERA last season you will find that his next years ERA will be closer to last seasons dERA then his ERA if that makes any sense. Sorry about the wording here. Here is an article on it.
http://www.futilityinfielder.com/dips03.html

Alex
06-01-04, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Dave in MD


when he was with us Choate performed well against lefties. Torre wouldn't use him because he was young and when he did use him he didn't use him as a lefty specialist. Torre never tried to develop him. He'd rather use the ancient Jesse Orosco.

I liked Choate, but he also had huge control issues. I remember him coming in late in games and having a problem with walks and wild pitches. Very hard to deal with in close games. Maybe that's one of the reasons that Torre never trusted him in important situations.

nj-monarch
06-01-04, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Alex


I liked Choate, but he also had huge control issues. I remember him coming in late in games and having a problem with walks and wild pitches. Very hard to deal with in close games. Maybe that's one of the reasons that Torre never trusted him in important situations.

I agree. The guy does have potential, but he needs to throw strikes.

Also, evenif you believe Choate will emerge as a bona-fide lefty specialist, he was part of the package that landed us Javy Vazquez. (Though obviously, NJ was the key for that deal from the Expos' view.)

It's much harder to land a Vazquez than a Choate.

CommerceComet
06-01-04, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by parkerstrong
Why is there praise for Randy Choate? He got Bonds out once. Choate's numbers
7.47 ERA 2.04 WHIP 2.84 BA 15.2 IP 18 H 14 BB 23 SO
lefties bat .257 against him.

i dont see him as special at all. On the main forum, it's numbers like these that have people blasting Heredia and White. I never saw Choate as special when he was with the Yankees.

NelsonMuntz
06-01-04, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Rich
He could have been our LOOGY, but Torre never gave him the opportunity.
That's a good thing for us.