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View Full Version : Do you think Boston or Chicago (Cubs) winning is good for baseball?



Mattpat11
02-20-04, 12:37 AM
In the long run?

If this year's post season has showed us anything, it's that the urge for Cubs and/or Red Sox to finally win the world series has basically reached a national frenzy. (That may be a bit of an exacgeration, but bare with me)

Yankees/Marlins had no real appeal to anyone out of this New York area, but if either the Cubs or Red Sox or both had made it, it's almost certain that WS ratings and fan interest would be higher than it has in years.

But if one of those teams were to actually win a world series, their national hook would pretty much be gone. In stead of fans all over the country rooting for them to win, it would basically just be the hometown market. National interest in that team wouldn't be any different than it is for, say the Braves.

The cubbies and Sox have established themselves as a postseason (interest) draw

My question is, while a Cubs or Red Sox win would be bigger than anything (and a Sox/Cubs series would be the biggest thing) for a one time shot, would it be bad for baseball in the long run, losing their lovable losers?

cubswin
02-20-04, 01:31 AM
Chicago or Boston winning is just good.

Rich
02-20-04, 02:10 AM
You cannot be serious.

RSoxHater
02-20-04, 02:27 AM
How about the White Sox (if loosing is the entitlement than they beat the Red Sox by a year), or any other team that has had a long draught? How about the franchises that have never won before?

I am sorry, but I just don't see this "good for baseball" scenario if a team wins as opposed to another, it is good for the fans of the particular team, but not to the sports as a whole. Say that either Sox team or the Cubs win, are there going to be more fans drawn to baseball? I don't really think that it would beyond a small jump from their home markets. I admit that people might watch the clincher that regularly would not, but these are not going to be long term fans who will support the sport.

Furthermore, the precedent set by other long time loosers turned winners in other sports don't really show any difference in terms of helping their particular sport, at least outside of the winners market.

knickfan23
02-20-04, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by RSoxHater
How about the White Sox (if loosing is the entitlement than they beat the Red Sox by a year), or any other team that has had a long draught? How about the franchises that have never won before?

I am sorry, but I just don't see this "good for baseball" scenario if a team wins as opposed to another, it is good for the fans of the particular team, but not to the sports as a whole. Say that either Sox team or the Cubs win, are there going to be more fans drawn to baseball? I don't really think that it would beyond a small jump from their home markets. I admit that people might watch the clincher that regularly would not, but these are not going to be long term fans who will support the sport.

Furthermore, the precedent set by other long time loosers turned winners in other sports don't really show any difference in terms of helping their particular sport, at least outside of the winners market.

You are correct.

The Rangers hadnt won a Cup since 1940 and when they finally won, no one cared after the initial celebration.

Same goes for the Red Wings. And even the Phillies in baseball. It took them 97 years to win their first title. I cant believe that they have only won 1 title in 124 years. That is unfathomable. Its worse than the Cubs and the Red Sox.

By using the Phillies as a guide of futility, the Cubs will have to wait until 2005 to win it all. The Red Sox will have to wait until 2015 before getting their ring.

nyyfanatic85
02-20-04, 07:37 AM
You can't be serious. Even if they do win, there's other teams that haven't either a) ever won, or b) haven't won in a very long time.

Babe Rules
02-20-04, 08:01 AM
Wht? I like curses.

Irabu's Son
02-20-04, 08:49 AM
a Boston/Chicago World Series would be the first in history where two teams lose every game. After 7 games, each team would be 0-7. That's how pathetic those two franchises are.

NoVa YankeeFan
02-20-04, 09:08 AM
It might be good for the country, but I don't care about the rest of the country, I care about me.

I'm a Yankee fan so it wouldn't be good for me.

Irabu's Son
02-20-04, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by NoVa YankeeFan
It might be good for the country, but I don't care about the rest of the country, I care about me.

I'm a Yankee fan so it wouldn't be good for me.

:gulp: :D

Hitman23
02-20-04, 09:53 AM
It would be good for Boston or Chicago fans. That's it.

Seriously you have to earn a championship, do you really want one out of pity? This is the real world, not some happy ending disney movie.

Babe Rules
02-20-04, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by NoVa YankeeFan
It might be good for the country, but I don't care about the rest of the country, I care about me.

I'm a Yankee fan so it wouldn't be good for me.

Exactly.

Irabu's Son
02-20-04, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Hitman23
It would be good for Boston or Chicago fans. That's it.

Seriously you have to earn a championship, do you really want one out of pity? This is the real world, not some happy ending disney movie.

Speaking of Disney, maybe if Boston wins the World Series this year, Disney can do a captivating movie about the underdogs winning the championship with a mentally challenged manager and owner?

Sort of a "Radio" meets "Rudy" meets "The Rookie" theme.. picture it.

NYYFAN
02-20-04, 10:18 AM
If your taking about the little teams winning then no...there are both Fat Cat Teams...just like NYY...

NDBoston
02-20-04, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Irabu's Son


Speaking of Disney, maybe if Boston wins the World Series this year, Disney can do a captivating movie about the underdogs winning the championship with a mentally challenged manager and owner?

Sort of a "Radio" meets "Rudy" meets "The Rookie" theme.. picture it.

A "mentally challenged" owner who went from owning a farm to creating a trending system in the Options industry that made him very wealthy and a God in the financial industry.

He's never been arrested either.

Hitman23
02-20-04, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Irabu's Son
Speaking of Disney, maybe if Boston wins the World Series this year, Disney can do a captivating movie about the underdogs winning the championship with a mentally challenged manager and owner?

Sort of a "Radio" meets "Rudy" meets "The Rookie" theme.. picture it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. :lol: it's pathetic that it was made such a big deal last year with this sox/cubs WS. Does America really want a disney movie for the WS?? It's pathetic. Fans of the sport want the teams that deserve it, not the teams that feel they are owed because they haven't won in 100 years.

Irabu's Son
02-20-04, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by NDBoston


A "mentally challenged" owner who went from owning a farm to creating a trending system in the Options industry that made him very wealthy and a God in the financial industry.

He's never been arrested either.

:lol:

Legogasm
02-20-04, 12:20 PM
Besides being good for their fans, I think it would be good for baseball as well. However, the effect it would have would not be near as substantial if it wasn't a Cubs/Sox series. Having just one really does nothing for anybody except their fans.

Goose54
02-20-04, 12:40 PM
Them having teams that are capable of winning a championship is DEFINITELY good for baseball.


People root for underdogs. A Yankees-Cubs World Series would SHATTER ratings records.


Just as an aside - really nothing to do with this situation, but the person that said that nobody cared about the Rangers winning the Stanley Cup was wrong. The Rangers winning the Cup was the best thing that happened to the NHL at the time. It got national media coverage, and hockey was all over the place ALL SUMMER LONG.......but then the owners locked the players out, and they wound up missing 3 months of the next season, effectively ruining the momentum that they had built due to the Rangers winning. If not for that lockout, who knows what would have happened to the NHL. A lot of experts believe that the popularity would have surged.

This doesn't really relate to the Cubs-Sox stuff, because the NHL overall is not a popular league and MLB doesn't have the image problems that the NHL does (though it has gotten a little worse)


Either way, having one of those two teams win it all would be good for baseball.....but having them lose in the WS would be too. Really having either of their presence in the big show would be a good story for the league.


They're all bored of the Yankees winning...no one wants to see that except for us.

Goose54
02-20-04, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Legogasm
Besides being good for their fans, I think it would be good for baseball as well. However, the effect it would have would not be near as substantial if it wasn't a Cubs/Sox series. Having just one really does nothing for anybody except their fans.


I disagree....I think having the Cubs play the Yankees would be great as well, because other than Yankees fans, you'd have the entire nation tuning in to root for the Cubs....

NoVa YankeeFan
02-20-04, 01:19 PM
Goose- then the Devils won, and we had our parade in the Meadowlands parking lot, and there are much fewer celebrities willing to jump on the bandwagon if it means taking a bus from Port Authority instead of a cab to Penn Plaza...

nufced1918
02-20-04, 01:21 PM
Of course it would be good for baseball...for whatever reason baseball fans love losers more than winners

Yankees/Marlins had lousy ratings simply because nobody in either New England or Chicagoland could stomach watching and the Marlins have no fan base to speak of.


When the Cubs last won in 1908

_
Ford Model T. introduced.
Devastating earthquake hits Messina, killing 100,000.
"Young Turk" revolution in Ottoman Empire.
Bulgaria declares independence from Ottoman Empire.
Bosnia-Herzegovnia annexed by Austro-Hungary.
Crete votes for union with Greece (union is not fully effected until 1913).
"Tunguska Event" - meteor impact in Siberia. The explosion is equivalent to 1,000 Hiroshma bombs.

Federal spending:__ $0.66 billion
Unemployment:__ 8.0%
Cost of a first-class stamp:__ $0.02


When the Red Sox last won in 1918
..
Russian revolutionaries execute the former czar and his family. Russian Civil War between Reds (Bolsheviks) and Whites (anti-Bolsheviks); Reds win in 1920.

Allied troops (U.S., British, French) intervene in Russia (March). Background: World War I

Second Battle of the Marne (July-Aug.)

German Kaiser abdicates (Nov.); hostilities cease on the Western Front.

Japanese hold Vladivostok until 1922.

Worldwide Spanish influenza epidemic strikes; by 1920, nearly
20 million are dead. In U.S. alone, 500,000 perish.

New York's worst subway accident kills 92 and injures 100 after a train jumps a track in Brooklyn at 30 mph (five times the speed limit) (Nov. 2).

Federal spending:__ $12.68 billion
Consumer Price Index:__ 15.1
Unemployment:__ 1.4%
Cost of a first-class stamp:__ $0.03

NoVa YankeeFan
02-20-04, 01:35 PM
So if the Sox win, unemployment will drop by 75%, it'll cost 2c to mail something, I might get a killer cold, and we'll have to finish fighting a war for the French?

Weighing the first two against the latter two...I'll pass.

Sixty one
02-20-04, 02:11 PM
I think the Cubs winning and then playing NY would be very good for baseball because it would keep the interest of midwesterners going in the fall and increase the tv ratings for FOX!!

Shadowboxer
02-20-04, 02:28 PM
Both teams should always make the postseason, be on the verge of championship, then lose in the most painful fashion like they did last year. That way ppl come back for more incoming years..

Hitman23
02-20-04, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Shadowboxer
Both teams should always make the postseason, be on the verge of championship, then lose in the most painful fashion like they did last year. That way ppl come back for more incoming years.. I completely agree. How sweet was it to see the Cubs so close and because of a supposed curse that dumb fan caught that ball extending it?? Or the Sox being 8 outs away from winning and then watching pedro collapse, then beat the guy that baffled the Yanks for two outings by the most unlikely guy in the lineup besides Enriqu Wilson? Man it couldn't have been scripted better then it happened. Sorry to the rest of the country who like happy endings for unfortunate teams, but both outcomes made my year.

Mattpat11
02-20-04, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Shadowboxer
Both teams should always make the postseason, be on the verge of championship, then lose in the most painful fashion like they did last year. That way ppl come back for more incoming years..

Shadowboxe, this is exactly the point I was trying to make.Thanks for clarifying.

I really feel that if one of those teams actually wins, less people will care about the post season.

NDBoston
02-20-04, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Mattpat11


Shadowboxe, this is exactly the point I was trying to make.Thanks for clarifying.

I really feel that if one of those teams actually wins, less people will care about the post season.

Not one person outside of NY thinks that is remotely true.

cubswin
02-20-04, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Hitman23
I completely agree. How sweet was it to see the Cubs so close and because of a supposed curse that dumb fan caught that ball extending it?? Or the Sox being 8 outs away from winning and then watching pedro collapse, then beat the guy that baffled the Yanks for two outings by the most unlikely guy in the lineup besides Enriqu Wilson? Man it couldn't have been scripted better then it happened. Sorry to the rest of the country who like happy endings for unfortunate teams, but both outcomes made my year.

You're an evil being.

Legogasm
02-20-04, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by cubswin


You're an evil being.

No, that is just a Yankee fan talking. I feel the same way. While I was pulling for the Cubs a bit (simply because I have family in Chicago that I could have stayed with during the series), it was sweet to see both teams uphold their respective curses.

cubswin
02-20-04, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Legogasm


No, that is just a Yankee fan talking. I feel the same way. While I was pulling for the Cubs a bit (simply because I have family in Chicago that I could have stayed with during the series), it was sweet to see both teams uphold their respective curses.

I didn't mean it. I meant that both of you are eveil beings. ;)

Hitman23
02-20-04, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by cubswin
You're an evil being. :evil: as long as the fans and the organizations believe there is a curse it will keep happening. I felt for the Cubs a bit because that fan was just a complete moron for what he did. No excuse whatsoever, in a playoff game if you have those seats you need to be responsible for your actions. Know what the situation is in the game and what catching a stupid $10 baseball will do to your team, or not do if you let it go. At least that's how I feel. You have a responsibility as a fan to be aware of that situation. Man, I know it's evil but on the outside it's just so damn funny.

krystl
02-20-04, 04:12 PM
I was pulling for the Cubs. I thought a Yankees/Cubs series would be interesting because each team has a long history in baseball.
If I were not a Yankee fan, I would have thought a Cubs/Red Sox series would have been cool (with the Cubbies winning of course...seeing as they went longer w/o a WS win :evil: ). But I didn't want the Red Sox to be in the series under any circumstances, so that's a moot point.

nufced1918
02-20-04, 04:18 PM
http://i5.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/5b/18/5f_1.JPG

penfold
02-20-04, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by NDBoston

(re: Originally posted by Mattpat11 saying, "I really feel that if one of those teams actually wins, less people will care about the post season.")

Not one person outside of NY thinks that is remotely true.

NDBoston, perhaps you mean, "Not one FAN outside of NY thinks that is remotely true." Fans will watch and care no matter what.

The average know-nothing has a tendency to pay attention only to the hype of the post-season. They'll follow the Cubs or either color Sox because they are the underdog and haven't won in about a hundred years (let's not add up all those years, eh?) and the broadcasters won't let anybody forget it. The bandwagon-jumpers will watch out of curiosity and then, if any of those underdog teams win, that new audience probably won't watch another World Series because there won't be any "magic."

Then there's also the loss of something special. You go from having a streak and some notoriety from the streak to yet-another-team-that's-only-won-1-in-100-years.

(Columbia football in the 1980's anybody? 44 losses in a row? They won 2 games in '88 and have sucked ever since. They just don't get any press for it any more.)

CalYankeeFan
02-20-04, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by knickfan23


The Red Sox will have to wait until 2015 before getting their ring.

That would be terrible for Boston...all those years of futility...I just can't imagine having it all end only 3 years from the century mark.

nufced1918
02-20-04, 06:42 PM
You guys wouldnt believe the nightmare I had

Grady leaves Pedro in and NYY comes back to win

luckily it was a bad dream

http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/33-25/33-25193-f.jpg

http://www.digitalriver.com/v2.0-img/operations/mlbhost/image/l/c/s/lcs_bos_215.jpg

CalYankeeFan
02-20-04, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by nufced1918
You guys wouldnt believe the nightmare I had

Grady leaves Pedro in and NYY comes back to win

luckily it was a bad dream



:lol:

You kill me