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bobby jr
11-18-02, 07:58 PM
Here is my idea on how the Orioles could use a unique strategy to lower the opposing teamsí such as the Yankees batting average and power.
I have put this on Sunspot, and I wonder what you Yankee fans think of this idea.



My idea would also limit the opposing managerís options in stacking their lineups to platoon their right and handed hitters against the Orioles.
To summarize, the Orioles could ruin the opposing teamsí platoon by letting their starting pitcher face a single batter, then removing him for a pitcher who throws from the opposite side.

For example, when the Orioles are playing a team that which platoons a lot, the Orioles could start a left-handed pitcher. The opposing team would then stack their lineup with right-handed batters.

These batters would on average hit at least twenty points higher on the average against southpaw pitchers. For example, on average a right-handed batter with a .244 average would hit about .258 against lefties, and about .236 against right handed pitchers. Also they would hit with more power against left-handed pitchers.

After the Orioles southpaw pitcher faces one batter, Hargrove would come out and remove him from the game, bringing in a right handed pitcher. The other team would then be stuck with a lineup of right handed batters, who would essentially be hitting .236 instead of .258, with less power too. They would have to either pinch hit immediately, or stick with their lineup that would now be a platoon lineup from the wrong side of the plate! If they pinch hit, this would limit their options for the rest of the game, especially the late innings. Either way, the Orioles come out ahead.

After this happened a few times, other managers would become reluctant to stack their lineups with platoon players against the Orioles. The fear of Hargrove making a pitching change after one batter would cause the opposing managers to protect themselves by limiting the number of platoon hitters they start. Thus, the plan could help the Orioles even when it isnít used.

The pitch-to-one-batter plan should be used sparingly, say about 10 times a year, to avoid disrupting the starting rotation. It would only be used against teams that platoon heavily and only for certain games, to be discerned by Hargrove. But it indeed could be an effective strategy, and could result in more Orioles wins.

Buzah!
11-18-02, 07:59 PM
and you'd blow out your bullpen in about a month! Back to the drawing board, Bobby:)

Soriambi
11-18-02, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by Buzah!
and you'd blow out your bullpen in about a month! Back to the drawing board, Bobby:)

That, and the fact that many managers, including Torre, don't really platoon. Giambi at first hits almost as well against lefties and righties, I believe. Soriano, Jeter, and Ventura made up the rest of the infield 99% of the time. Posada always caught, plus he's a switch hitter. Same with Bernie in center. The outfielders always switched but not because of who was pitching. Managers these days just don't stack their lineups with lefties against rightines and vice versa. There aren't many platoons anymore. Also, there are quite a few players who are lefty who hit lefties even BETTER than they hit righties. It just wouldn't work.

bobby jr
11-18-02, 08:12 PM
It would blow out the bullpen if I used relievers for long periods. But I am just talking about putting in a starting pitcher for a single batter, then removing him from the game. I think he could pitch again the next day if he just faced one batter.

Soriambi
11-18-02, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
It would blow out the bullpen if I used relievers for long periods. But I am just talking about putting in a starting pitcher for a single batter, then removing him from the game. I think he could pitch again the next day if he just faced one batter.

Assuming this, then the team would just repeat the process that day....besides....what left handed starter do the O's have?

bobby jr
11-18-02, 08:15 PM
Perhaps the Yankees wouldn't be the best team to try it against. But when you look at the entire league, there is still a huge statistical advantage for right handed batters to face left handed pitchers rather than righties. They have a higher batting average and more power. And certain teams do platoon a lot. The AZ Diamondbacks platooned in their WS against the Yankees two in 2001.

bobby jr
11-18-02, 08:17 PM
Right now the Orioles don't have a left handed starter, but they could still trade for one. Besides this strategy could be used in any future year, not just 2003, and the O's will eventually get some southpaw pitchers again.

Soriambi
11-18-02, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Right now the Orioles don't have a left handed starter, but they could still trade for one. Besides this strategy could be used in any future year, not just 2003, and the O's will eventually get some southpaw pitchers again.

Who are they going to trade for? Lefty hitters can still hit BAD lefty starters. Plus, you do need some offense to win baseball games and at this point, the Orioles do not have that.

nickzcool51
11-18-02, 08:23 PM
that is just plain stupid... And righties need to know how to hit righies anyway so it wouldn't work. Plus the starter wouldn't agree to that.

Soriambi
11-18-02, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by nickzcool51
Plus the starter wouldn't agree to that.

That's a good point as well. Didn't even think of that. :)

yankeegeek
11-18-02, 08:28 PM
The O's don't have a lefthanded starter, we could GIVE them Sterling for a bag of balls. The O's are that stupid to do that deal I believe!

Soriambi
11-18-02, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by yankeegeek
The O's don't have a lefthanded starter, we could GIVE them Sterling for a bag of balls. The O's are that stupid to do that deal I believe!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Angelos would probably do that one, for sure. :lol: :lol: :lol:

deranged2005
11-18-02, 08:37 PM
So wait, you would let your starter throw to ONE batter, take him out, and let the bullpen do the rest?

And this wouldn't tire your bullpen??

Soriambi
11-18-02, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by deranged2005
So wait, you would let your starter throw to ONE batter, take him out, and let the bullpen do the rest?

And this wouldn't tire your bullpen??

He's saying to use TWO starters on one night. One more thing I thought of...warming up still takes a lot out of your pitcher. After warming up and pitching to one batter, if there is a rain delay, that pitcher will NEVER pitch the next night because he is tired.

LIYanks
11-18-02, 09:06 PM
Hey, bobby jr. Here is a better idea. Sign a bunch of ambidextrous pitchers and have him switch pitching hand on every pitch. That ought to confuse the heck out of the hitters. :D

Soriambi
11-18-02, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by LIYanks
Hey, bobby jr. Here is a better idea. Sign a bunch of ambidextrous pitchers and have him switch pitching hand on every pitch. That ought to confuse the heck out of the hitters. :D

LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

I actually heard that that happened once a LONG time ago. THere was an ambidextrous pitcher and he was switching arms until a switch hitter came up. You can imagine what happened then. :lol: It;s probably just a legend, but I thought it was kinda funny. ;)

NyMike
11-18-02, 09:11 PM
The Orioles don't have any starters good enough to force an opposing manager to change their lineup for.....

Yank'sFan83
11-18-02, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
My idea would also limit the opposing managerís options in stacking their lineups to platoon their right and handed hitters against the Orioles.
To summarize, the Orioles could ruin the opposing teamsí platoon by letting their starting pitcher face a single batter, then removing him for a pitcher who throws from the opposite side.

I don't think umpires would allow you to remove your starting pitcher unless he is injured.:NY:

Alex
11-18-02, 11:29 PM
How pathetic is this? Pretty pathetic!

Slippery Elm
11-18-02, 11:58 PM
I believe manager Herman Franks did that with Bill Henry, a lefty, at Shea in 1967: brought him in for one batter - and then went to a rightie.

Very tricky.:rolleyes: :P

Obviously, you can't do it except on very unusual occasions for obvious reaons.

bobby jr
11-19-02, 05:45 AM
Let me also say that I have tested this lineup strategy. I have "Diamond Mind " baseball, the most realistic computer baseball game on the market.

I am currently managing the 1968 St. Louis Cardinals, and I use the "platooning pitcher" strategy with some effectiveness in the game.
The computer manager for the opposing teams loads up their lineup with right handed batters to face my announced starting pitcher, Steve Carlton. After one batter, I remove Carlton and bring in a right handed pitcher like Ray Washburn.

And it works! I have the 1968 Diamond Mind Cardinals in first place, and their winning percentage is well above .600 at this point of the season. They are on a pace to win well over 100 games. I recall the real 1968 Cardinals finished below .600 in their winning percentage.

Carissa
11-19-02, 08:19 AM
When discussing any other teams, please place it in the correct forum (hint: Around the Majors).

bobby jr
11-19-02, 08:39 AM
OK, will do in the future.

Ansky39
11-19-02, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by nickzcool51
that is just plain stupid...


Originally posted by Alex
How pathetic is this? Pretty pathetic!

http://216.40.249.192/mysmilies/contrib/blackeye/hihi.gif uh, no comment...

Soriambi
11-19-02, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Let me also say that I have tested this lineup strategy. I have "Diamond Mind " baseball, the most realistic computer baseball game on the market.

I am currently managing the 1968 St. Louis Cardinals, and I use the "platooning pitcher" strategy with some effectiveness in the game.
The computer manager for the opposing teams loads up their lineup with right handed batters to face my announced starting pitcher, Steve Carlton. After one batter, I remove Carlton and bring in a right handed pitcher like Ray Washburn.

And it works! I have the 1968 Diamond Mind Cardinals in first place, and their winning percentage is well above .600 at this point of the season. They are on a pace to win well over 100 games. I recall the real 1968 Cardinals finished below .600 in their winning percentage.

:lol: But the 1968 Cards were a GOOD team. They had guys like Carlton and Washburn. So basically, your strategy is...bring in Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton, and Ray Washburn and the O's might win. THe O's don't have ANY PLAYERS to use this strategy with. They also had some offense in guys like Curt Flood and Lou Brock. THey had the talent to win the NL by 9 games and to win the World Series, although they lost 4 games to 3. They won 97 games. Try the strategy with the 2001 O's or with the 1968 Washington Senators and see how well it works. Bottom line, righty or lefty, you still need GOOD pitchers to get guys out.

KLJ
11-19-02, 09:26 AM
booby posted his theory over on the orioles board and got mocked unmercifully... you guys are being kind....

sadly this isn't even close to the nuttiest idea he has come up with...

one thing i will say is that bobby makes the offseason more entertaining... has he posted his theories on pulling the ball to the opposite field yet?

Soriambi
11-19-02, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by KLJ
booby posted his theory over on the orioles board and got mocked unmercifully... you guys are being kind....

sadly this isn't even close to the nuttiest idea he has come up with...

one thing i will say is that bobby makes the offseason more entertaining... has he posted his theories on pulling the ball to the opposite field yet?

Not that I've seen. By the way, Bobby...no matter how "realistic" a board game claims to be it is just that...a game. It might be a simulation, but it does not simulate REAL life baseball

staticm
11-19-02, 10:55 AM
actually, it sounds like something tony larussa might try ;)

seriously though, the idea as a concept isn't totally without merit.. if real life were like a computer simulation, it would be fine..

unfortunately, with living, breathing people, you have to contend with such issues as a starter getting "mentally prepared" for a start. Some pitchers get so focused that nobody can even speak to them the day before, or day that they pitch.

Switching pitchers like that may have a negative affect on the starter or reliever's pysche. It sounds silly, but it may be true.

There is also the issue of having 2 starting pitchers going through their whole warmup routine on the same day. It may not be a problem in april, but come september you're going to be adding a bunch of extra pitches to those fragile arms.

Finally, there is the whole unwritten rulebook of baseball, which calls for good sportsmanship... trick plays like that would be considered poor sportsmanship, and the manager who tried it would be widely considered a jerk.

bobby jr
11-19-02, 11:57 AM
I don't think that it would be bad sportsmanship for a manager to use this idea. It is a strategic move, similar to going to a "no huddle" offense in football to prevent the defense from bringing in their "long down" players.

Diamondmind is not a board game, it is a computer game which replicates the exact stats of a given baseball season. Your decisions effect the outcome of the game, the lineup you set, the rest you give your pitchers, etc.

As for the starting pitcher not liking it, as the manager I would expect them to do what was good for the team. Besides they would benefit from this when their turn came. Sometime in the year the same could be done for the starting pitcher who was removed after one batter, he could be brought in relief and then he would face batters platooned the wrong way.

If they were advised in advance they would just pitch to one one batter on Wednesday, then start and pitch the whole game on Thursday, I think a starting pitcher could adjust.

Finally, it is absolutely irrelevant whether the 1968 Cardinals were a good or bad team in terms of testing my strategy. If the pitching switcharoo worked, it would work for ALL teams. Therefore, instead of losing 97 games, the 1968 Washington Senators might only lose 92 if they switched their pitchers about 10 times in the year. Similarly, the 1968 Cardinals might win 102 games instead of 99. They might even have won the 1968 World Series had they tried this against the Tigers.

junkman73
11-19-02, 01:05 PM
The pitch-to-one-batter plan should be used sparingly, say about 10 times a year, to avoid disrupting the starting rotation. It would only be used against teams that platoon heavily and only for certain games, to be discerned by Hargrove. But it indeed could be an effective strategy, and could result in more Orioles wins.

Great...now you're up to only 20 games below .500. Any more brilliant ideas?

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-19-02, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Yank'sFan83


I don't think umpires would allow you to remove your starting pitcher unless he is injured.:NY:
??? Of course they would. You can do anything to your lineup you want except bring players back into the game or keep the DH after switching a fielder into that spot.

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-19-02, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
These batters would on average hit at least twenty points higher on the average against southpaw pitchers. For example, on average a right-handed batter with a .244 average would hit about .258 against lefties, and about .236 against right handed pitchers. Also they would hit with more power against left-handed pitchers.

After the Orioles southpaw pitcher faces one batter, Hargrove would come out and remove him from the game, bringing in a right handed pitcher. The other team would then be stuck with a lineup of right handed batters, who would essentially be hitting .236 instead of .258, with less power too. They would have to either pinch hit immediately, or stick with their lineup that would now be a platoon lineup from the wrong side of the plate! If they pinch hit, this would limit their options for the rest of the game, especially the late innings. Either way, the Orioles come out ahead.

First of all, I think you're exaggerating the number of hitters who are platoon players. You're assuming a pretty big variation in the averages against right and left handed pitchers, which I think is unrealistic. How many teams platoon more than 3 positions? I don't think there are many, so at best you're given yourself an advantage against 3 hitters. That's not nothing, but if you do that 10 times, I doubt it will add much to your win total.

Second of all, you say the Orioles come out ahead because they either have a platoon the wrong way, or the other team depletes its bench when they immediately switch their platoon guys. Well, if having a platoon the wrong way is such a big disadvantage for the hitting team, then having a platoon the right way is an equally big advantage, so even though the team has lost its bench, it now has a huge advantage on your pitcher. Sounds like a pretty even swap to me. Plus, just as the hitters have used up some of their bench, you've burned a pitcher. Is this a reliever you're bringing in or tomorrow's starter? If it's a reliever, you're really depleting your pen asking them to pitch a full game. That's a huge bonus for the other team. If it's tomorrow's starter, you're bringing in a guy on short rest. That often doesn't work well.

Finally, I think you're being unrealistic to think that the starter who only faces one hitter can just go tomorrow. Starters warm up for a long time, and that's not a trivial thing. I think the wear on a guy's arm, even just from pre-game warmup, is enough that pitching tomorrow would be very difficult.

Jim Roche
11-19-02, 02:24 PM
Bobby...

I gather from your post that you're an Oriole fan... I'm going to take a wild guess and state that you are in your 20's....maybe younger..
Your team had a manager that subscribed to a few of the theories that you've come up with....his name was Paul Richards..
I suggest that you check out his record and note that when he started getting better starting pitching in 1960 (Steve Barber, Milt Pappas, Chuck Estrada, Billy O'Dell..etc) and had his team setlled up the middle, he didn't have to try to outhink Casey all of the time...
Trust me, your 2003 club needs to get settled up the middle, give the opposite team only 3 outs an inning which will make your pitchers (starters & pen) much better... Your hitters under Terry Crowley have to stop thinking about that 364ft. sign in LCF and become better situational hitters (moving guys at 1st...to third. moving guys from 2nd to home...taking walks when given...)

Soriambi
11-19-02, 02:51 PM
Bobby.....

First, I know what Diamond Mine is and it's STILL not REAL baseball. It considers MANY variables and is very realistic, don't get me wrong, but it DOESN'T consider even more variable, such as attitudes ect.

Second, of course it matters whether it's a good or bad team! The 68 Cards had an OFFENSE and good PITCHERS. THe Orioles have neither.you also need several lefties AND righties who can pitch many innings.

Third, obviously in a perfect world all players live together in harmony and do what's right for the team. However, some players are not like this. THey might not like the fact that you're blowing their arms out and demand to be traded. What then?

In short, it just wouldn't work....

Bozidar
11-19-02, 03:03 PM
bobby -- the idea has some merrit in the fantasy world, but in the real world it doesn't work.

Having 9 starters rather than 5 and a bullpen is a good idea too. But it wouldn't work in the real world..

Jersey Yankee
11-19-02, 04:15 PM
bobby, jr, which RHP were you considering using, that's presently in the Orioles' lineup, and what's his success vs RH batters?

BTW, after this was done once, which team wouldn't be wise to this little trick? The closest I've seen to this was when Moose and Pettitte did 4 innings each in a game, since I believe one or both were on a short leash.

Soriambi
11-19-02, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
bobby, jr, which RHP were you considering using, that's presently in the Orioles' lineup, and what's his success vs RH batters?

BTW, after this was done once, which team wouldn't be wise to this little trick? The closest I've seen to this was when Moose and Pettitte did 4 innings each in a game, since I believe one or both were on a short leash.

What righty? How bout' what lefty?

:lol:

Jersey Yankee
11-19-02, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Soriambi
What righty? How bout' what lefty?

:lol: That's up to bobby jr to decide. If someone tells me about a genius idea, I say that if it's gonna work, give me the names of who's gonna do them, and we'll go from there.

If the O's don't have anybody in the farm, can't trade or buy an FA, then they should just fire their GM, that's all!!!

bobby jr
11-19-02, 08:39 PM
Let me tell you something about Peter Angelos. The man is a winner. He has almost always succeeded. I have no that Peter Angelos can turn this Orioles team around and make them winners in a very short span.

Remember, we were threatened with a team in DC. This would be like putting a team within a mile of Yankee Stadium. How do you think Steinbrenner would like that?

Realistically, the Orioles should not have gone after big name free agents last year. If the Orioles had become big winners, the attendance would have shot up and this could have caused MLB to move the Expos to the DC area in 2003.

Now I don't know if Angelos and Selig made a deal to keep the Expos out of DC but the rumor is that they did. And I hope they did. This is probably why the Orioles are back in hunt for the big name Japanese players now.

As for my idea, I still think it could work if used properly. It suprises me that MLB managers do not in fact use this strategy on a regular basis.
What is different from football teams going to a no huddle to prevent certain defensive players from entering the game? The pitching switch in baseball is to prevent certain offsensive players from remaining in the game, or to lessen their effectiveness should the manager refuse to remove them.

It could work!

Soriambi
11-19-02, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Let me tell you something about Peter Angelos. The man is a winner. He has almost always succeeded. I have no that Peter Angelos can turn this Orioles team around and make them winners in a very short span.

Remember, we were threatened with a team in DC. This would be like putting a team within a mile of Yankee Stadium. How do you think Steinbrenner would like that?

Realistically, the Orioles should not have gone after big name free agents last year. If the Orioles had become big winners, the attendance would have shot up and this could have caused MLB to move the Expos to the DC area in 2003.

Now I don't know if Angelos and Selig made a deal to keep the Expos out of DC but the rumor is that they did. And I hope they did. This is probably why the Orioles are back in hunt for the big name Japanese players now.

As for my idea, I still think it could work if used properly. It suprises me that MLB managers do not in fact use this strategy on a regular basis.
What is different from football teams going to a no huddle to prevent certain defensive players from entering the game? The pitching switch in baseball is to prevent certain offsensive players from remaining in the game, or to lessen their effectiveness should the manager refuse to remove them.

It could work!

First, how do you figure that Peter Angelos is a winner? He has done nothing but drive your team into the ground year after year.

About your idea....are you even listning to us? You can't warm up 2 starters every day and have them pitch the next day or their arms will fall off! Also, the players wouldn't agree with it because they don't want their arms to flal off. Also, you need MULTIPLE starters (lefties AND righties) to use this strategy. Finally, TEAMS DO NOT PLATOON much anymore. Maybe at a posistion or two. This strategy would have a negative effect on the team because all of the pitchers would be tired.

YankyDave
11-19-02, 10:47 PM
Ignore him. He is a social misfit who gets his rocks off by coming up with the most absurd notions possible and then having a conversation about it. One of his nicknames is Milton (a la Office Space).

All the proof you need of his ignorance is the statement that Angelos is a winner. His proof is in the fact that Angelos is winning in his battle to destroy his own team to keep one out of Washington. He has won nothing when it comes to being a real owner. I see you agree that Angelos intentionally is ruining his own team to spite Washington. It's sad you're actually proud of this. I guess the fans in Baltimore can't support their own team but Washington can now. Hmmm, maybe contract the O's and let Washington have a shot. They can't do any worse.

The Orioles send a friggin e-mail and they are somehow "in the hunt" for big free agents. Bobbo- how bout waking ole Syd up and see if he can take one of those mechanical birds over to say hi.

Slippery Elm
11-19-02, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by YankyDave
Ignore him. He is a social misfit who gets his rocks off by coming up with the most absurd notions possible and then having a conversation about it.

I know. That's why my contribution to this thread was just a few sentences.

yankeegeek
11-19-02, 11:36 PM
Let Booby.....oops I mean Bobby Jr take is prozac. The O's are as much a laughing stock as the Mets, Red Sux, and Double A's(oops Devil Rays). Let him believe Peter Angelos is a winner.

BobbyMurcerFan
11-20-02, 01:50 AM
Bobby, I wasn't going to criticize you... but "Angelos a winner?" Not in baseball he's not.

As for your idea of using starters as one batter short relievers early in the game, it sounds dopey to me, but I also thought Starbucks cofee would go under, so what do I know.:confused:

bobby jr
11-20-02, 08:36 AM
Once again Yanky Dave is using personal insults in lieu of rational argument. In point of fact I am not a "social misfit" but a happily married man with a seven year old daughter. Careful, YD, you know what happens on Sunspot when posters insult others. They get banned. I understand the same thing can happen on this forum.

But this is not relevant to the topic at hand. I have considered the objections raised to my plan on this discussion, but I still think the advantages of throwing off the other teams' platoon would outweigh the disadvantages. Why not give it a try? If it fails, then throw the idea out, but I think a MLB manager should at least try it.

I never said Angelos should ruin the Orioles. But there was a threat last year the Expos would be brought to DC in 2003. If this occurred, this would be a disaster for Angelos and the Orioles.

Therefore it would have been illogical for Angelos to sign big name free agents in 2002. This would have resulted in a spike in Orioles attendance and the other owners would be tempted to bring the Expos to Washington, thinking the Orioles attendance was so good that the area could support two teams.

So Angelos used last year as a rebuilding year. This was wise and good for the city of Baltimore. But now we are are ready to fly high again.

BobbyMurcerFan
11-20-02, 08:39 AM
But I think the only person flying high here is ... :bad-ass:

Shel
11-20-02, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Let me tell you something about Peter Angelos. The man is a winner. He has almost always succeeded. I have no that Peter Angelos can turn this Orioles team around and make them winners in a very short span. http://www.plauder-smilies.de/lach.gif


The following is the Baltimore Orioles organization "report card" for 2002, from Baseball America
11/25-12/8/2002


BALTIMORE ORIOLES
OVERALL GRADE: F

MAJOR LEAGUES: D
Played .500 ball most of the season until 4-32 collapse; Mike Hargrove is organization's biggest asset.

MINOR LEAGUES: F
Along with worst winning percentage in baseball (.434), got kicked out of Rochester after 42 years.

TALENT LEVEL: F
Rodrigo Lopez and Jorge Julio contributed in Baltimore, but minor league talent is worst in the game.

PLAYER PROCUREMENT: D
Lopez was a find, but why no deadline deals? Draft grade up in the air with Adam Loewen in junior college.

ORGANIZATION DIRECTION: F
Worst attendance in Camden Yards; Cal Ripken doesn't want to be GM. Is Peter Angelos paying attention?Peter Angeloser is a winner? Junior, you and the little Peter's family are probably the only people who think this is true, at least where baseball is concerned!

Soriambi
11-20-02, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr


I have considered the objections raised to my plan on this discussion, but I still think the advantages of throwing off the other teams' platoon would outweigh the disadvantages. Why not give it a try? If it fails, then throw the idea out, but I think a MLB manager should at least try it.

I never said Angelos should ruin the Orioles. But there was a threat last year the Expos would be brought to DC in 2003. If this occurred, this would be a disaster for Angelos and the Orioles.

Therefore it would have been illogical for Angelos to sign big name free agents in 2002. This would have resulted in a spike in Orioles attendance and the other owners would be tempted to bring the Expos to Washington, thinking the Orioles attendance was so good that the area could support two teams.

So Angelos used last year as a rebuilding year. This was wise and good for the city of Baltimore. But now we are are ready to fly high again.

Why not give it a try? BECAUSE TEAMS DON'T PLATOON ANYMORE! Don't you think of all the managers EVER, that SOMEONE would have thought of this if it would work? The....pitchers....arms....would....fall....off. They can NOT pitch on consecutive days after warming up the previous day. Why can't you seem to understand that Bobby? Diamond Mine baseball doesn't take into consideration warming up. THere is probably a very little or no penalty for having a pitcher pitch to one batter and then leave. He's probably at 100% the next night. That ISN'T the case in real baseball. As you you not wanting Angelos ruining the Orioles....I'm afraid he already has.

As for your "flying high"......who is even on your team? I know a bnch of the guys but you don't have one, not ONE, big name or even middle of the road name star. Your 3 and 4 hitters are 7 and 8s on most teams. Pitching wise, you've got Sidney Ponson, who I like, but other than him NO ONE. How can you even make this argument on this idea. The Orioles seem to have given up. No matter what strategy you use, you need PLAYERS to win ballgames.

NYYFAN
11-20-02, 11:09 AM
Can you see Roger or Wells face. if Torre came to take them out after 1 pitch...:lol:

Soriambi
11-20-02, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by NYYFAN
Can you see Roger or Wells face. if Torre came to take them out after 1 pitch...:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'd pay to see that, just once. :lol: Also, it's after one batter. ;) I can see it now. Roger blows three 98 mph fastballs by the leadoff hitter for a K and here comes Joe! :lol:

Jersey Yankee
11-20-02, 04:41 PM
bobby, jr, in order to lend some credence to your reasoning, would you kindly let us know which pitchers you'd use in such a scenario? Since your titles stats winning w/the same personnel, please only use 2002 Baltimore Orioles pitchers, and then, only those who haven't filed f/FA this off-season.

Soriambi
11-20-02, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
bobby, jr, in order to lend some credence to your reasoning, would you kindly let us know which pitchers you'd use in such a scenario? Since your titles stats winning w/the same personnel, please only use 2002 Baltimore Orioles pitchers, and then, only those who haven't filed f/FA this off-season.

I too would appreciate that. Please illustrate your idea to us simpletons. :)

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-20-02, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
But this is not relevant to the topic at hand. I have considered the objections raised to my plan on this discussion, but I still think the advantages of throwing off the other teams' platoon would outweigh the disadvantages.

This is perhaps the funniest thing you've said yet on this thread. Relevant? You never make a single relevant response to people who question you. Myself and countless others have raised objections, objections which you claim ot have considered. But rather than respond, you just stamp your feet and insist your plan is a good one. That's sort of like me saying Jim Palmer is the most overrated pitcher in baseball history, you explaining why he's not overrated, and me just responding that I've considered your comments, but no, he's simply the most overrated. You complained about not being treated with respect, yet you've done absolutely nothing in your posts to earn the respect of any of us. Ignoring responses isn't generally a good way to get people to take you seriously.

Originally posted by bobby jr

So Angelos used last year as a rebuilding year. This was wise and good for the city of Baltimore. But now we are are ready to fly high again.
Last year? Fly high again? Ummm, you guys have been terrible since 96, all that with one of baseball's highest payrolls. Peter Angelos has yet to demonstrate any ability to spend wisely and build a winning team, and there is no evidence anywhere that the team is poised to start flying high. You keep defending Angelos - explain what he's done that shows he can build a winning ballclub.

Soriambi
11-20-02, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Mxylsplk

This is perhaps the funniest thing you've said yet on this thread. Relevant? You never make a single relevant response to people who question you. Myself and countless others have raised objections, objections which you claim ot have considered. But rather than respond, you just stamp your feet and insist your plan is a good one. That's sort of like me saying Jim Palmer is the most overrated pitcher in baseball history, you explaining why he's not overrated, and me just responding that I've considered your comments, but no, he's simply the most overrated. You complained about not being treated with respect, yet you've done absolutely nothing in your posts to earn the respect of any of us. Ignoring responses isn't generally a good way to get people to take you seriously.

Last year? Fly high again? Ummm, you guys have been terrible since 96, all that with one of baseball's highest payrolls. Peter Angelos has yet to demonstrate any ability to spend wisely and build a winning team, and there is no evidence anywhere that the team is poised to start flying high. You keep defending Angelos - explain what he's done that shows he can build a winning ballclub.

A-MEN Fatha Mxylsplk. ;)

deranged2005
11-20-02, 06:20 PM
So let me get this straight.

You put your starting pitching in for 1 or 2 batters. Lets call him Bob Pitcher.

So Bob Pitcher pitches, then comes out, and a reliver comes out. He faces 1-2, maybe 3 guys, and then he comes out. And the process repeats until

A) The game is over, and you've burned out all your pitchers.
B) Your pitchers get rocked and you need a first basemen, aka Mark Grace to come in and pitch.

Questions: If I know you were doing this, I'd platoon my lineup with bench players, then when you're pitchers come out to battle the platoon, I pinch-hit for a opposite batting player. That plan would rain on your picnic.

Sounds good, but very very flawed.

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-20-02, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by deranged2005
So let me get this straight.

You put your starting pitching in for 1 or 2 batters. Lets call him Bob Pitcher.

So Bob Pitcher pitches, then comes out, and a reliver comes out. He faces 1-2, maybe 3 guys, and then he comes out. And the process repeats until ...


No. The process doesn't repeat. The whole point is that you get a team to stack its lineup to face Bob Pitcher. If he's a righty, they put in the lefties, or vice versa. After one batter, Bob Pitcher hits the showers, and Bill Pitcher, who's the opposite handed from Bob Pitcher comes in and faces a lineup that is stacked in his favor. Now the other team's in a spot, or so bobbyjr says, they have a bunch of lefty platoon guys facing a lefty pitcher. I think it's a terrible strategy, but it's not as ridiculous as your post made it seem.

Soriambi
11-20-02, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Mxylsplk

No. The process doesn't repeat. The whole point is that you get a team to stack its lineup to face Bob Pitcher. If he's a righty, they put in the lefties, or vice versa. After one batter, Bob Pitcher hits the showers, and Bill Pitcher, who's the opposite handed from Bob Pitcher comes in and faces a lineup that is stacked in his favor. Now the other team's in a spot, or so bobbyjr says, they have a bunch of lefty platoon guys facing a lefty pitcher. I think it's a terrible strategy, but it's not as ridiculous as your post made it seem.

Exactly.

deranged2005
11-20-02, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Mxylsplk

No. The process doesn't repeat. The whole point is that you get a team to stack its lineup to face Bob Pitcher. If he's a righty, they put in the lefties, or vice versa. After one batter, Bob Pitcher hits the showers, and Bill Pitcher, who's the opposite handed from Bob Pitcher comes in and faces a lineup that is stacked in his favor. Now the other team's in a spot, or so bobbyjr says, they have a bunch of lefty platoon guys facing a lefty pitcher. I think it's a terrible strategy, but it's not as ridiculous as your post made it seem.

I see. Teams like the Yankees only platooned when they faced a good pitcher.......

Which the O's don't have :)

2JAY
11-20-02, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Let me tell you something about Peter Angelos. The man is a winner. He has almost always succeeded. I have no that Peter Angelos can turn this Orioles team around and make them winners in a very short span.
What in the hell.:lol:
The only thing that Peter Angelos is a winner at, is the race to another wrinkle on his face.

Soriambi
11-20-02, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by 2JAY
What in the hell.:lol:
The only thing that Peter Angelos is a winner at, is the race to another wrinkle on his face.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Soriambi
11-20-02, 08:32 PM
Bobby Jr. I have a question for you. Do you believe that for all he has done for the game and for his proud Oriole franchise, that Peter Angelos deserves a spot iin Cooperstown with all of the other executives? Just wondering. :uhh:

bobby jr
11-20-02, 09:37 PM
What good would it do for me to list the players who would be used in the swith? The fact is that the plan would work to some degree against ANY TEAM IN BASEBALL.. Repeat, the plan would work to some degree against ANY TEAM IN BASEBALL.

The reason? NO team starts the exact same lineup, game after game, against both left and right handed pitchers. The left handed hitters will be put into the more important positions in the batting order against the right handed pitchers. So by switching the pitcher after one batter, this will change the equation for the better against EVERY TEAM IN BASEBALL.

I don't like writing in caps, but it seems the advantages of my plan are not being taken seriously by too many posters here. I have tested my plan on Diamondmind baseball with some success. And yes, this computer baseball game does penalize you for warming your pitchers up too often. But it seems the advantages of defeating the platoon system outweigh the disadvantages of having your pitchers slightly more tired.

Now, as for Peter Angelos... Yes he may deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame. He may have saved baseball. He had a key role in the labor negotiations last year and the luxury tax and revenue sharing were absolutely necessary. Thank goodness the MLBPA was finally defeated. I am so sick of seeing certain a certain team buy the championship year after year. Bud Selig deserves a spot in Cooperstown, just as Kenasaw "Mountain" Landis, who also saved the game at a crucial moment.

yankeegeek
11-20-02, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Now, as for Peter Angelos... Yes he may deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame. He may have saved baseball. He had a key role in the labor negotiations last year and the luxury tax and revenue sharing were absolutely necessary. Thank goodness the MLBPA was finally defeated. I am so sick of seeing certain a certain team buy the championship year after year. Bud Selig deserves a spot in Cooperstown, just as Kenasaw "Mountain" Landis, who also saved the game at a crucial moment.


Booby- this just goes to show your stupity! Peter Angelos is scum between my toes. He is a brainless moron that decimated a once proud franchise. They are so bad that they might not finish ahead of the Devil Rays! They have almost no talent. Did you see Shel's replay about the grades your team recieved??? PLEASE give me an inteligent reply. As for Peter saving all of baseball please. He has had teams with higer payrolls then the Yankees( IE 1996 O's) that had a higher payroll than the Yankees that won the World Series! He had a high payroll that forced others to raise theirs to remain competitive. So in reality he was part of the reason for baseball's problems!

Now go have fun at a Mensa meeting to the baseball minds:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bozidar
11-20-02, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
I don't like writing in caps, but it seems the advantages of my plan are not being taken seriously by too many posters hereThat's because the advantages of your plan aren't very serious.

What good is it going to do the O's to switch pitchers when they're facing a lineup like the yankees, or the Red Sox? That's two teams which make up 39 of their games throughout the year.

Answer: None. Because the rag arms that play for Baltimore can't pitch for ................ -- righties or lefties, and most of the guys in these lineups can either hit pitching that's from the same position as they (right, or left), or their lessened production for that day will hardly be noticed because of all the other great hitters in the lineup.

Jeter, every day
Bernie, every day, switch hitter
Giambi, every day
Jorge, just about every day, switch hitter
Soriano, every day
Raul, every day

And that's without taking into account NJ going to DH full time, or Matsui coming on board.

i don't take this idea serious, because it's not based on any serious advantage in the game.

Why not find some other way to win? Ya know.. like scouting.. or good trades. I hear those things are all the rave..

Bozidar
11-20-02, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by yankeegeek
Booby- this just goes to show your stupity! That's enough of that, 'geek.

yankeegeek
11-20-02, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
That's enough of that, 'geek.

Sorry Boz it has been a long day and tolerance for stupidity is running real low tonight.

Bozidar
11-20-02, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by yankeegeek
Sorry Boz it has been a long day and tolerance for stupidity is running real low tonight. I know the feeling ;) :D :lol: :evil:

deranged2005
11-20-02, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
What good would it do for me to list the players who would be used in the swith? The fact is that the plan would work to some degree against ANY TEAM IN BASEBALL.. Repeat, the plan would work to some degree against ANY TEAM IN BASEBALL.

The reason? NO team starts the exact same lineup, game after game, against both left and right handed pitchers. The left handed hitters will be put into the more important positions in the batting order against the right handed pitchers. So by switching the pitcher after one batter, this will change the equation for the better against EVERY TEAM IN BASEBALL.

But most teams have a solid lineup almost every game. As Boz pointed out, Soriano Jeter, Bernie, Jorge, Giambi and Mondesi were always in there. 6 outta 9 places on the lineup sheet. Then add Ventura and Nick Johnson, who played most of the time.

Any good team, if its the Yankees or Boston or the Angels, can hit any type of pitching. They have a balanced lineup.

Like I said before, if Joe Torre knows what the O's will do, why doesn't he put Ron Coomer, a righty, in Ventura's spot, a lefty? Then when the pitcher is changed, pinch hit for Coomer.

Maybe it works on paper, but its too flawed to work in a game.

bobby jr
11-21-02, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by yankeegeek



Booby- this just goes to show your stupity! Peter Angelos is scum between my toes. He is a brainless moron that decimated a once proud franchise. They are so bad that they might not finish ahead of the Devil Rays! They have almost no talent. Did you see Shel's replay about the grades your team recieved??? PLEASE give me an inteligent reply. As for Peter saving all of baseball please. He has had teams with higer payrolls then the Yankees( IE 1996 O's) that had a higher payroll than the Yankees that won the World Series! He had a high payroll that forced others to raise theirs to remain competitive. So in reality he was part of the reason for baseball's problems!

Now go have fun at a Mensa meeting to the baseball minds:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well yes I do qualify for Mensa but that is besides the point.
Angelos admitted he was wrong to try to buy free agents and win that way. He realized this was not right, it was immoral, and besides Steinbrenner would always win because the Yankees have the top revenue.

Therefore Angelos last year called for total revenue sharing, and he said "let's see then who will win". The implication was that the O's would best the Yankees if the Yankees did not have the unfair advantages.

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-21-02, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr

I don't like writing in caps, but it seems the advantages of my plan are not being taken seriously by too many posters here.
More non-response responses. You should go into comedy. :lol:

Bozidar
11-21-02, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
The implication was that the O's would best the Yankees if the Yankees did not have the unfair advantages. And what unfair advantages are they?

The O's probably have a bigger financial base, when you consider how many teams split up NY. And the yanks only rake it in when they're good..

The O's, if they started to perform, would be the biggest thing from south philly, to virgina.

And the yanks would still beat them.

bobby jr
11-21-02, 08:55 AM
Wow, I got a response from the moderator.

The Yankees have far greater revenues than do the O's. Even when you consider the Mets proximity to the Yankees, the population of NYC is so much greater than Baltimore that they have many times the number of potential fans, just based on population.

The NY Yankees have so much money they can afford to pay their home grown talent top dollar to not lose them, while at the same time taking other teams best players as free agents (Giambi, Mussina).

Also the Yankees funnel their extra revenue into their farm system giving them an advantage there too.

All of these considerations, in my opinion, made revenue sharing and the luxury tax necessary. All of the owners except for George Steinbrenner voted for these policies which were put forth by Selig and backed up by Peter Angelos, who had a key role in the negotiations.

Bozidar
11-21-02, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
The Yankees have far greater revenues than do the O's.They do. Because they developed farm talent, put money into scouting, and made the deal of the century -- the trade for Paul O'Neill. It's their winning, over the last decade, that is the reason for their greater-than-baltimore revenue stream - not their location.

Originally posted by bobby jr
Even when you consider the Mets proximity to the Yankees, the population of NYC is so much greater than Baltimore that they have many times the number of potential fans, just based on population.And what about the Giants? The Jets? The Ranger, and Islanders? The Knicks, and the Nets? The Devils, and even the Bills? All of these major sports franchises are within the Yankee's revenue area.

Down in baltimore's revenue area? 1 football team, 1 basketball team, 1 baseball team.

and THREE MAJOR CITIES in the area. Baltimore, Washington, and Anapolis.

Is there another sports franchises even CLOSE to you, besides the Phillies?

No.. the O's have a ton of financial potential, they just don't know how to realize it. That's their problem.

And when they do realize it, i hope the fans bitch and moan about the salary cap, because Angelos is going to be LOVING all the extra cash he saves on salaries.

Bozidar
11-21-02, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Wow, I got a response from the moderator. maybe you should have said: "Wow, i finally decided to reply to the moderator."

I've posted several times on this thread..

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-21-02, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
The implication was that the O's would best the Yankees if the Yankees did not have the unfair advantages.
And yet when they had comparable payrolls, the yanks swamped the O's. Looks like Peter A. is a little light on doing homework.

bobby jr
11-21-02, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Bozidar
maybe you should have said: "Wow, i finally decided to reply to the moderator."

I've posted several times on this thread..

Sorry, I didn't notice you were the moderator before. There have been so many posts on this thread.....

The Yankees did not dominate the Orioles before free agency began. In fact, it was the other way around!

In the decade before the beginning of free agency in 1975, the Orioles completely dominated the NY Yankees and entire league. We won 109 games in 1969, and over 100 games in 1970 and 71. We also won the division in 73 and 74. The Yankees were not competitive during the 1965-75 period.


Free agency brought an enormous advantage to the Yankees, beginning with the taking of Reggie Jackson, a Baltimore Oriole. Today, free agency is still helping the Yankees, with Giambi and Mussina. And how many big name Yankee players have left NY over the years to become free agents? Not very many.

Anyway this is getting off topic, and I suppose this board is not the best place to put forth this type of argument. If the Orioles were winning and the richest team in baseball I would probably defend the old system too.
It would be difficult to be objective, and I believe it is difficult for NY Yankee fans to be objective about how the rest of the USA feels about the Yankees domination of baseball over the last 10 years.

Ansky39
11-21-02, 11:19 AM
yaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnn... http://emoticon.go2.be/sleep/schla05.gif must be real borin in borememore...

Bozidar
11-21-02, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
The Yankees did not dominate the Orioles before free agency began. In fact, it was the other way around!

In the decade before the beginning of free agency in 1975, the Orioles completely dominated the NY Yankees and entire league. We won 109 games in 1969, and over 100 games in 1970 and 71. We also won the division in 73 and 74. The Yankees were not competitive during the 1965-75 period. Oh, will you give this a REST!!!!

Prior to free agency:
NYY -- 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1959, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962
(oh, and the Yanks were AL Champs in 1921, 1922, 1926, 1942, 1955, 1960, 1963, and 1964)

BAL -- Al champs 1944, 1969, 1971, WS 1966, 1970

Please... tell me how it is that Baltimore dominated the yankees before free agency began.

Bobby.. you can't discuss this topic on ANY board, because no one is falling for such an idea like this. It makes no sense, gives you no REAL benefit. Go ask your high school baseball coach to try it, and even he/she will probably tell you to go ................ in a hat.

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-21-02, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
I believe it is difficult for NY Yankee fans to be objective about how the rest of the USA feels about the Yankees domination of baseball over the last 10 years.
You're very confused. No one has said the rest of the country feels great about the yanks domination. Just as I'm sure most of us here as new yorkers or people with new york roots are unhappy seeing the Lakers win the nba year in and out, I think we all acknowledge that the majority of baseball fans are fans of some team other than the yanks, and are therefore unhappy seeing the yanks dominate so much. That has nothing to do with what you're arguing. You're carrying on about how Angelos is a winner and the only thing keeping him from winning is the yanks big payroll. That's just wrong on so many levels. He matched the yanks in payroll for a few years, and still put together a crappy team. Then once he lowered payroll, he still underperformed the league. I provided data to you once in a previous thread, which I'm sure you ignored as you ignore most responses to you, but year in and year out, the O's finish below many teams with lower payrolls, and above very few teams with higher payrolls.

Simply put, Angelos is anything but a winner, at least in baseball. Money is great, but it also takes smarts. The yanks are fortunate to have both. The O's have tried spending money and not spending money, but either way, Angelos has demonstrated he doesn't have smarts and has put a mediocre team on the field.

bobby jr
11-21-02, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
Oh, will you give this a REST!!!!

Prior to free agency:
NYY -- 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1959, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962
(oh, and the Yanks were AL Champs in 1921, 1922, 1926, 1942, 1955, 1960, 1963, and 1964)

BAL -- Al champs 1944, 1969, 1971, WS 1966, 1970

Please... tell me how it is that Baltimore dominated the yankees before free agency began.

Bobby.. you can't discuss this topic on ANY board, because no one is falling for such an idea like this. It makes no sense, gives you no REAL benefit. Go ask your high school baseball coach to try it, and even he/she will probably tell you to go ................ in a hat.

Look at the last 10 years before free agency began. The Orioles finished an AVERAGE of about 10 games ahead of the Yankees during this, the most recent period available for comparison before free agency. The Yankees went into a bad period (The "Horace Clarke" era, named after the mediocre player who was the best of the Yankees) after 1964 and this period continued for a decade until they were rescued by the advent of free agency.

KLJ
11-21-02, 12:42 PM
stop this nonsense.... stop this troll... he has ruined the orioles board... please don't let him ruin this one... he is not interested in discussing baseball in any way... all he wants to do is incite....

you must know that if i am talking like this about someone else, the situation is grave... it's not too late to kill the virus

Bozidar
11-21-02, 12:44 PM
Bobby.. you can't take a 10 year sample where the yanks had a bad team, and use it as a reason why free-agency made the yankees great.

It simply doesn't make any sense.

The Yankees have LOST more world series than the O's will ever be in. Accept that fact, and move on.

staticm
11-21-02, 01:11 PM
this thread = :lol:

bobby jr
11-21-02, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Bozidar
Bobby.. you can't take a 10 year sample where the yanks had a bad team, and use it as a reason why free-agency made the yankees great.

It simply doesn't make any sense.

The Yankees have LOST more world series than the O's will ever be in. Accept that fact, and move on.

OK I accept it. And I love the old Yankees teams of Ruth and Gehrig, when I play an all time baseball league those are the teams I choose.
Yes the Yankees have a history which the NY fans can be justifiably proud of.


But I still think the Yankees were helped by the advent of free agency in the 1970's. Would they have won the WS in 77-78 without Reggie Jackson? I think the Orioles would have continued their dominance and perhaps won the WS those two years if we hadn't lost Reggie Jackson and received nothing in return.

I accept free agency more now than I used to, but I think the revenue sharing and luxury tax were necessary to even the playing field.

bobby jr
11-21-02, 01:19 PM
Also we don't know what the future will bring, so we can't say for sure the Yankees have lost more WS than the Orioles will ever be in. Perhaps the Orioles will dominate for the next 100 years even more than the Yankees have although I won't be around to see it.

KLJ
11-21-02, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
....although I won't be around to see it.
that's a shame

Bozidar
11-21-02, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Also we don't know what the future will bring, so we can't say for sure the Yankees have lost more WS than the Orioles will ever be in. Perhaps the Orioles will dominate for the next 100 years even more than the Yankees have although I won't be around to see it. Hey anything's possible. Maybe they'll start using that little tatic of yours, and it will win them the world series. Maybe Palmer will put down the microphone and take up the ball again.

Maybe someone in Baltimore will hire someone who knows something about baseball.

smr15
11-21-02, 02:39 PM
http://www.animationlibrary.com/Animation11/Animals/Pigs/Pig_flies_2.gif

:D

Bozidar
11-21-02, 02:42 PM
LOL SUE!!!

Classic! Gotta keep that gif around :)

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-21-02, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
But I still think the Yankees were helped by the advent of free agency in the 1970's. Would they have won the WS in 77-78 without Reggie Jackson? I think the Orioles would have continued their dominance and perhaps won the WS those two years if we hadn't lost Reggie Jackson and received nothing in return.

Maybe, maybe not, but you continue to miss the point completely. In the 90's, the O's competed with yanks in payroll. So free agency is no advantage to the yanks during that time frame. Yet they still fell flat in all but one season. Angelos was throwing money around just as much as George, he just threw it to all the wrong people (just as George did in the 80's and early 90's). It's not free agency's fault the O's don't compete now, it's their front office's fault for making poor roster decisions.

Soriambi
11-21-02, 03:39 PM
Alright Bobby, then let's get back ON topic. Why don't you seem to understand the fact that the pitcher will blow out his arm using your strategy? Your game doesn't take into consideration how many TIMES he has warmed up too much in a season, it probably only affects the next game or the next few games. Again, the game is realistic, but it isn't major league baseball.

KLJ- I went over to the Oriole board to see what everyone was talking about and I don't think that that will ever happen here, I wouldn't worry. And Bobby, it actually seems that we're being more reasonable with you here than your fellow Oriole fans. Again, do you think that you are the ONLY person in the history of baseball who has thought of this idea?

OK, I'm gonna get off topic for just a second, sorry. What is the exact definition of "trolling" and what is Mensa? Thanks. :)

Oh, and as for Angelos being a HOFer. ......:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

YankyDave
11-21-02, 05:15 PM
As you can clearly see now as those of us unfortunate enough to have read his drivel before, Booby teaches Revisionist History at Yesteryear University.

Any time he can take a sample period to support his inanity, he'll do it. The 10 years prior to free agency isn't his best. His best is his constant claim that the O's were decent this year because they were .500 on August 23rd! Of course that is completely ignoring the total collapse to 95 losses. He also believes that going from 98 to 95 losses is an improvement.

Also, as you can see by his little "there have been so many posts..." statement, Bobby starts threads like this to get a rise out of people and stroke his little ego. I find it almost as pathetic as his idea that Angelos deserves to be in the HoF. That's funny, who's next John Rocker?

Jersey Yankee
11-21-02, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
But I still think the Yankees were helped by the advent of free agency in the 1970's. Would they have won the WS in 77-78 without Reggie Jackson? I think the Orioles would have continued their dominance and perhaps won the WS those two years if we hadn't lost Reggie Jackson and received nothing in return.Reggie Jackson played one single season in Baltimore -- 1976, then left as an FA. In that year, the Yanks went to the WS, but unfortunately got swept by the Big Red Machine!!!

In that same 1976 season (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/1976.shtml), the O's were in 2nd place w/Reggie. True, Reggie Jackson was a big part of the '77 and '78 WS teams, so he gets his props, but it's not like the Yankees won _ONLY_ because of Reggie!!!

During that 1976 season, are you saying that every single one of your players was from the farm, never acquired via FA? I would hope that's the case, as otherwise, I'm not too sure how relevant your point would be.

YankyDave
11-21-02, 05:23 PM
That's another one he misses. There were more free agents on the Orioles roster last year than the Yanks. Somehow he is always able to ignore the facts.

Jersey Yankee
11-21-02, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Soriambi
OK, I'm gonna get off topic for just a second, sorry. What is the exact definition of "trolling" and what is Mensa? Thanks. :)

Oh, and as for Angelos being a HOFer. ......:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: A troll is someone who comes onto a board and spams. He/she has no intention of sticking to the topic, is there primarily to get into verbal warfame (called "flaming"), making stupid comments, often personal.

A "mensa" is a group of highly intelligent individuals w/super-high IQs, but I'm not sure of the exact definition. About 10 or 15 years ago, I'd heard of some Mensa club, and people acted a little better than others if they were a part of this. :rolleyes:

As to Angelos being in the HOF, sure 'nuff, my friend!!! With his millions and billions or whatever the heck he's worth, a ticket to Cooperstown wouldn't be that expensive, now would it? Show the love, my brutha!!!
:D :)

Soriambi
11-21-02, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
A troll is someone who comes onto a board and spams. He/she has no intention of sticking to the topic, is there primarily to get into verbal warfame (called "flaming"), making stupid comments, often personal.

A "mensa" is a group of highly intelligent individuals w/super-high IQs, but I'm not sure of the exact definition. About 10 or 15 years ago, I'd heard of some Mensa club, and people acted a little better than others if they were a part of this. :rolleyes:



Gotcha. THat's basically what I inferred. Thanks. :)

Jersey Yankee
11-21-02, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Soriambi
Gotcha. THat's basically what I inferred. Thanks. :) No problem, Kev. You've got any more questions, just post away and I'll see what I can do. :)

bobby jr
11-21-02, 08:55 PM
Don't have much time tonight, but let me answer one question. "Mensa" is a group with one and only one requirement, a score in the top 2% of a proctored IQ test. In other words, you have to score in the 98th percentile or better. Yes, I passed, and I made the mistake of mentioning it on Sunspot, and some posters there are so jealous that they bring it up every week or so.

Now one more thing. I have indeed found the posters here on this Yankees board are more civil than on Sunspot, which unfortunately has attracted a certain group of about 8 posters who enjoy personal attacks and putdowns of the Orioles, their owner, and anyone who defends them. Some of these posters been banned from Sunspot but keep registering under different names and coming back, only to be banned again when they cannot stop breaking the users agreement.

Getting back to my plan, , why would it ruin a pitchers arm if he were brought out for one hitter a few times a year? Remember, Randy Johnson won games six and seven of the 2001 WS with zero days rest in 2001 (sorry to bring that up). And he pitched to a lot more than one batter each day.

Relievers often come in and get a batter or two out, then they are ready to go the next day.

So could a starter come in for one batter, and by then the other teams' lineup card would be set to face him. Take him out, bring in a pitcher who throws the opposite way, and then your ploy has ruined the opposing managers' strategy in setting his lineup!

I am joining an internet baseball league and plan to try this against some of the other teams. I hope the managers don't get too mad!

deranged2005
11-21-02, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Remember, Randy Johnson won games six and seven of the 2001 WS with zero days rest in 2001 (sorry to bring that up). And he pitched to a lot more than one batter each day.

Because Randy Johnson is a freak who can throw a 140-pitch complete game and do it again his next start.

Soriambi
11-21-02, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Don't have much time tonight, but let me answer one question. "Mensa" is a group with one and only one requirement, a score in the top 2% of a proctored IQ test. In other words, you have to score in the 98th percentile or better. Yes, I passed, and I made the mistake of mentioning it on Sunspot, and some posters there are so jealous that they bring it up every week or so.

Now one more thing. I have indeed found the posters here on this Yankees board are more civil than on Sunspot, which unfortunately has attracted a certain group of about 8 posters who enjoy personal attacks and putdowns of the Orioles, their owner, and anyone who defends them. Some of these posters been banned from Sunspot but keep registering under different names and coming back, only to be banned again when they cannot stop breaking the users agreement.

Getting back to my plan, , why would it ruin a pitchers arm if he were brought out for one hitter a few times a year? Remember, Randy Johnson won games six and seven of the 2001 WS with zero days rest in 2001 (sorry to bring that up). And he pitched to a lot more than one batter each day.

Relievers often come in and get a batter or two out, then they are ready to go the next day.

So could a starter come in for one batter, and by then the other teams' lineup card would be set to face him. Take him out, bring in a pitcher who throws the opposite way, and then your ploy has ruined the opposing managers' strategy in setting his lineup!

I am joining an internet baseball league and plan to try this against some of the other teams. I hope the managers don't get too mad!

It's not the pitching to one batter, Bobby, it's the warming up. A starting pitcher's warmup routine is far more lengthy than a reliever's. You could probably use your strategy for a few weeks but after a while it would start to take it's toll on their arms. THis is why Randy Johnson could pitch. He had the entire offseason to rest his arm. You COULD do this a few times a year, but it wouldn't work consistently. It's a decent idea in theory, but it gets all messed up in practice. Btw, thanks for the explanation of Mensa and congrats on passing the test. :)

Soriambi
11-21-02, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by deranged2005


Because Randy Johnson is a freak who can throw a 140-pitch complete game and do it again his next start.

That too. :lol:

Jersey Yankee
11-21-02, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Now one more thing. I have indeed found the posters here on this Yankees board are more civil than on Sunspot, which unfortunately has attracted a certain group of about 8 posters who enjoy personal attacks and putdowns of the Orioles, their owner, and anyone who defends them. Some of these posters been banned from Sunspot but keep registering under different names and coming back, only to be banned again when they cannot stop breaking the users agreement.

Getting back to my plan, , why would it ruin a pitchers arm if he were brought out for one hitter a few times a year? Remember, Randy Johnson won games six and seven of the 2001 WS with zero days rest in 2001 (sorry to bring that up). And he pitched to a lot more than one batter each day.Randy Johnson doesn't play for the Baltimore Orioles, and your thread's title specifically states using the same personnel!!! At Camden Yards, your Birds got swept by the Yanks!!! Where's the available staff you keep referring to but fail to mention? Who are the pitchers you'd use in such a situation? I mean, real live, breathing human beings, not some 3x5 card in a "realistic" software!!! Every single time I request you to name the staff members, you ignore me!!! How come?!!!

It's not the putdowns of the O's that people here often are prone to. It's strong disagreement that Angelos belongs in Cooperstown, it's people disagreeing w/his business sense!!!

It's not like we're automatically totally against any opposing team and/or their owners in this forum. However, calling someone a genius and their way of running a club seems more like ruining, that's an issue which isn't anti-Orioles, IMO!!!

yankeegeek
11-21-02, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
A "mensa" is a group of highly intelligent individuals w/super-high IQs, but I'm not sure of the exact definition. About 10 or 15 years ago, I'd heard of some Mensa club, and people acted a little better than others if they were a part of this. :rolleyes:

:D :)


And Booby is in Mensa because WHY??? Somehow that Mensa thing lost a little credibility after learning that he is a part of it.

Jersey Yankee
11-21-02, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by yankeegeek
And Booby is in Mensa because WHY??? Somehow that Mensa thing lost a little credibility after learning that he is a part of it. Well, let's just say that the info about the Mensa thing just "happened" to spill out here via the alleged and unnamed Sunspot board members. If someone didn't want others to know about their being a Mensa member, why would this even be mentioned in the first place either here and/or Sunspot? Presuming it's even true!!! :D :)

Seems like a bit of chest-puffing, but that's all I can think of. After all, w/my low IQ and all, I wouldn't even be considered f/such an exclusive club!!!

I couldn't give a flying hoot what anybody's IQ is. If you're unable to hold a decent conversation, talk w/some degree of intelligence, support your points made in a discussion or debate, what's the purpose? Unless you're designing some building or an aircraft carrier or something on a grand scale, I think you should have some kind of common sense, too, as people skills go a long way, rather than being some super-smart mad scientist!!!

Slippery Elm
11-22-02, 12:03 AM
All true. IQ tests can also be studied for with results improved on - something I thought absurd when I first learned of that as it is supposed to measure intelligence.

Of course, there are also different kinds of intelligence - and that common sense factor.

One can be supposedly "smart", but be a sleazy idiot at the same time - as Bill Clinton proved.

Jimmy Carter was very smart, but never applied it correctly.

bobby jr
11-22-02, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
Randy Johnson doesn't play for the Baltimore Orioles, and your thread's title specifically states using the same personnel!!! At Camden Yards, your Birds got swept by the Yanks!!! Where's the available staff you keep referring to but fail to mention? Who are the pitchers you'd use in such a situation? I mean, real live, breathing human beings, not some 3x5 card in a "realistic" software!!! Every single time I request you to name the staff members, you ignore me!!! How come?!!!

It's not the putdowns of the O's that people here often are prone to. It's strong disagreement that Angelos belongs in Cooperstown, it's people disagreeing w/his business sense!!!

It's not like we're automatically totally against any opposing team and/or their owners in this forum. However, calling someone a genius and their way of running a club seems more like ruining, that's an issue which isn't anti-Orioles, IMO!!!

I thought I already admitted that at the present time the Orioles don't have a left handed starting pitcher, so the strategy will not work until they obtain one. But again, this strategy is not limited to next year, when the Orioles do obtain a lefty, then they could start doing it.

Or perhaps they could start Buddy Groom, a left handed reliever. The opposing manager would not know whether to start his righties or not, and this would give the O's a strategic advantage.

It would keep the other teams manager guessing and limit his strategy in setting his lineup. Let Groom pitch an inning or two, then switch to a right handed pitcher.

bobby jr
11-22-02, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Soriambi


It's not the pitching to one batter, Bobby, it's the warming up. A starting pitcher's warmup routine is far more lengthy than a reliever's. You could probably use your strategy for a few weeks but after a while it would start to take it's toll on their arms. THis is why Randy Johnson could pitch. He had the entire offseason to rest his arm. You COULD do this a few times a year, but it wouldn't work consistently. It's a decent idea in theory, but it gets all messed up in practice. Btw, thanks for the explanation of Mensa and congrats on passing the test. :)

The pitchers being used would not have to warm up significantly more, I would use the strategy sparingly, say 10-12 times a year. These games would not all involve the same pitchers, so the number of additional warm ups would be insignificant.

The pitching switcharoo would just be used in crucial games against teams who platoon a lot, again, just a few times a year. But even if it just means one extra win a year, this is sometimes the difference between an early vacation and going to the World Series.

Bozidar
11-22-02, 08:53 AM
ok, give us a real-life example of a "crucial" game for 2003, and when, and how you'd use it.

Try to be fair to the opposing team.

And keep in mind that there are no crucial games against the Royals, D-Rays, Blue Jays, or Tigers.

Shel
11-22-02, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
I don't like writing in caps, but it seems the advantages of my plan are not being taken seriously by too many posters here....

Now, as for Peter Angelos... Yes he may deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame. He may have saved baseball.Bobby Jr, it is virtually impossible to take anything you say seriously when you post drivel like this.

Oh, by the way Bobby, I think it's very interesting that you didn't bother to respond to my previous post, in which I pointed out how much of a dreadful mess the Baltimore organization has become. If you are a long-time Oriole fan, then you know that this has not always been the case. Angelos didn't start the decline, but he has certainly accelerated it.


Originally posted by yankeegeek
And Booby is in Mensa because WHY??? Somehow that Mensa thing lost a little credibility after learning that he is a part of it. Keep in mind, yankeegeek, that a high IQ and common sense don't always go hand in hand. A high score on an intelligence test doesn't guarantee that the person who took the test possesses any common sense whatsoever.

Soriambi
11-22-02, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr


Or perhaps they could start Buddy Groom, a left handed reliever. The opposing manager would not know whether to start his righties or not, and this would give the O's a strategic advantage.

It would keep the other teams manager guessing and limit his strategy in setting his lineup. Let Groom pitch an inning or two, then switch to a right handed pitcher.

Uh....wouldn't the manager know that Groom can't pitch more than an inning or two, and therefore not allow Groom to change his starting linep? :rolleyes:

Mr. Mxylsplk
11-22-02, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Soriambi


Uh....wouldn't the manager know that Groom can't pitch more than an inning or two, and therefore not allow his starting to affect his strategy? :rolleyes:
Goddammit Soriambi, stop making sense! :lol:

Soriambi
11-22-02, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Mxylsplk

Goddammit Soriambi, stop making sense! :lol:

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. :lol: How's this, PETER ANGELOS IS GOD!!! Better? ;) :lol:

YankyDave
11-22-02, 03:37 PM
Well since Bobby can't come up with a team that can use the strategy, how about finding me a team that platoons so much that it would work against. Most teams, I'm sorry most GOOD teams (so you can exclude the O's), have a core of talent that plays all the time. Maybe when the O's play the Devil Rays they can try it. That's pretty much AAA ball anyways, gimmicks are encouraged at that level.

Jersey Yankee
11-22-02, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
I thought I already admitted that at the present time the Orioles don't have a left handed starting pitcher, so the strategy will not work until they obtain one. But again, this strategy is not limited to next year, when the Orioles do obtain a lefty, then they could start doing it.

Or perhaps they could start Buddy Groom, a left handed reliever. The opposing manager would not know whether to start his righties or not, and this would give the O's a strategic advantage.

It would keep the other teams manager guessing and limit his strategy in setting his lineup. Let Groom pitch an inning or two, then switch to a right handed pitcher. The title of your thread discusses winning w/the _SAME_ personnel, so why are you now drifting off into future/potential _NEW_ personnel?

_WHEN_ the O's obtain a lefty? What's his name? How old, where has he pitched before, which league, and how many IP/G (innings pitched per game)? Is he a starter, mid- or long-reliever?

BTW, there's one interesting caveat about your master plan I find interesting: starting position player can be replaced in the lineup. You know, like if a manager puts in a LHP who's death on lefties, the opposing manager can then substitute a righty position player in the lineup. What's to stop the manager from merely using as a PH the player who would've hit vs the RHP had said RHP started the game?

While the "keep 'em guessing" thing may seem cute and all, pitchers do like to actually _PITCH_ when they've gone out there, so this 1- or 2-inning "start" would be quickly figured out, in addition to confusing f/them. You send a matador out, he wants to see a bull!!! If a thoroughbred goes to the racetrack, he/she wants to _RUN_!!! Like a bomber pilot on a mission, he wants to do what he's sent out to do, not being given the hook so early.

Besides, if you start a LHP who's a reliever, everybody on the planet would know you'd quickly substitute a RHP, so nothing new there!!! No one starts a reliever, so it's like you'd have telegraphed your next move!!!

Bobby, Jr: LHP reliever to start the game!!!

Opposing Mgr: I smell a big bait 'n' switch!!!

IMO, if you want to throw off a lineup, you could get a deadly LH Specialist around the 6th or 7th inning to force the opposing manager's hand, such as making them hit their LH hitter against this reliever, or PHing him, both choices of which he doesn't like. That would certainly stir up the lineup a bit, in addition to possibly removing an offensive threat before the game gets too tight.

Jersey Yankee
11-22-02, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
The pitchers being used would not have to warm up significantly more, I would use the strategy sparingly, say 10-12 times a year. These games would not all involve the same pitchers, so the number of additional warm ups would be insignificant.

The pitching switcharoo would just be used in crucial games against teams who platoon a lot, again, just a few times a year. But even if it just means one extra win a year, this is sometimes the difference between an early vacation and going to the World Series. If you warm up a pitcher -- especially a starter who's ued to 6-7+ innings -- and he doesn't pitch much, me thinks he's gonna be mighty upset. His warmup is so his pitching arm can do super duty, which is why in the real world, they keep their arms warm and relaxed between innings.

10-12x/yr? A season = ~26 weeks, so that's about so that's about once every 15 or 16 days. Since you also mentioned using different pitchers, how many of your pitchers would want to follow this? You think that pitchers wouldn't ask to be traded? You think that players wouldn't write Baltimore off the list of teams to be traded to?

As to win more win, let's just say you need 11 wins to wear a WS crown, so one more win, if added to _MANY_ more wins just might at least get you the WC, given that you can get past Seattle, Boston or Anaheim!!!

bobby jr
11-22-02, 09:00 PM
Yes the title of this thread is winning with the same personnel. And that means a team which uses this strategy can win with the same personel they presently have! It does NOT mean that the Baltimore Orioles can effectively use the strategy in 2003, at least not as well as they could if they had a left handed starter.

But the Orioles could still use the strategy, even with just left handed relievers! OK, I will name names here to prove how even a team without a left handed starter could use this to their benefit.

The Orioles start Buddy Groom, a southpaw. The opposing manger says Hmmm, I don't understand this. Groom won't pitch more than two innings. Should I stack my lineup with right handed batters, like I normally do? What if Groom pitches well, I can't risk starting lefties against him, or they may pitch him for five innings and kill our chances to win"

So what will happen? The opposing manager will most likely stack his lineup with right handed hitters in the hope of getting an early lead (Groom is poison to left handed hitters).

I, as the Orioles manager, let Groom pitch the first inning, then remove him for Scott Erickson. If Groom gives up a couple of hits, I take him out before the first inning is up, so Erickson faces the right handed power of the other team.

Scotty, a right handed pitcher, now has the advantage of facing the platooning right handed lineup for the rest of the game. He will be happy to have this advantage, and will not complain to me about not starting the game. The game will be his to win or lose, and he will only have to pitch 8 innings instead of 9.

Groom is happy because he made his usual one inning appearance, and contributed to the victory.

By the way YD, how did you enjoy the Yankees playoff game you traveled all the way to New York to see? :) :)

Bozidar
11-22-02, 09:07 PM
Bobby, i asked that you use a real-life example against a real lineup.

Lefties like Giambi, Olerud, Ichiro, Thome.. they don't get sit for anyone.

Soriambi
11-22-02, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
Yes the title of this thread is winning with the same personnel. And that means a team which uses this strategy can win with the same personel they presently have! It does NOT mean that the Baltimore Orioles can effectively use the strategy in 2003, at least not as well as they could if they had a left handed starter.

But the Orioles could still use the strategy, even with just left handed relievers! OK, I will name names here to prove how even a team without a left handed starter could use this to their benefit.

The Orioles start Buddy Groom, a southpaw. The opposing manger says Hmmm, I don't understand this. Groom won't pitch more than two innings. Should I stack my lineup with right handed batters, like I normally do? What if Groom pitches well, I can't risk starting lefties against him, or they may pitch him for five innings and kill our chances to win"

So what will happen? The opposing manager will most likely stack his lineup with right handed hitters in the hope of getting an early lead (Groom is poison to left handed hitters).

I, as the Orioles manager, let Groom pitch the first inning, then remove him for Scott Erickson. If Groom gives up a couple of hits, I take him out before the first inning is up, so Erickson faces the right handed power of the other team.

Scotty, a right handed pitcher, now has the advantage of facing the platooning right handed lineup for the rest of the game. He will be happy to have this advantage, and will not complain to me about not starting the game. The game will be his to win or lose, and he will only have to pitch 8 innings instead of 9.

Groom is happy because he made his usual one inning appearance, and contributed to the victory.

By the way YD, how did you enjoy the Yankees playoff game you traveled all the way to New York to see? :) :)

.....THe opposing manager wouldn't think this because Buddy Groom CAN'T pitch 5 innings. He's a reliever. It would be like Mariano Rivera pitching 5. It just doesn't happen. And again....please acknowledge that you are reading this....NO ONE SIGNIFICANTLY PLATOONS ANYMORE.

Jersey Yankee
11-22-02, 09:41 PM
The definition of a "platoon" is generally that one hitter (usually a lefty) will face righty pitchers, while the other, usually a righty, will face lefty pitchers.

If youhave a RHP, then the LH hitter will be your starter at that position in this "platoon". Your RH hitter will warm the bench. If the opposing manager gets wise to this plan -- and you'd mentioned using it up to twice per month (12x/season), then the other half of the platoon comes in.

In order for this to work, you'd need to know your opponents. Please name which teams that platoon often which you feel this strategy would be effective against.

RHP Scott Erickson, BAL (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=4498)
Right/Left AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
vs. Right 291 109 88 15 1 7 45 23 6 42 8 1 .302 .358 .433 .791
vs. Left 342 0 104 21 1 13 54 45 2 32 9 8 .304 .385 .485 .871
While Scott's numbers vs righties is better than vs lefties (which by itself isn't exactly saying much), I wouldn't exactly say that his .300+ BAA f/both, his 5-12, 5.55 ERA would exactly inspire shivers down opposing managers' spines, if that's the tough righty you intend to throw at hitters!!! In fact, he sounds _ALMOST_ as feared as an attack toy poodle or chihuahua!!!

Soriambi
11-22-02, 09:59 PM
In order for this to work, you'd need to know your opponents. Please name which teams that platoon often which you feel this strategy would be effective against.


If you warm up a pitcher -- especially a starter who's ued to 6-7+ innings -- and he doesn't pitch much, me thinks he's gonna be mighty upset. His warmup is so his pitching arm can do super duty, which is why in the real world, they keep their arms warm and relaxed between innings.


The title of your thread discusses winning w/the _SAME_ personnel, so why are you now drifting off into future/potential _NEW_ personnel?



BTW, there's one interesting caveat about your master plan I find interesting: starting position player can be replaced in the lineup. You know, like if a manager puts in a LHP who's death on lefties, the opposing manager can then substitute a righty position player in the lineup. What's to stop the manager from merely using as a PH the player who would've hit vs the RHP had said RHP started the game?



Well since Bobby can't come up with a team that can use the strategy, how about finding me a team that platoons so much that it would work against. Most teams, I'm sorry most GOOD teams (so you can exclude the O's), have a core of talent that plays all the time. Maybe when the O's play the Devil Rays they can try it. That's pretty much AAA ball anyways, gimmicks are encouraged at that level.


ok, give us a real-life example of a "crucial" game for 2003, and when, and how you'd use it.


What good is it going to do the O's to switch pitchers when they're facing a lineup like the yankees, or the Red Sox? That's two teams which make up 39 of their games throughout the year.
Please... tell me how it is that Baltimore dominated the yankees before free agency began.

I figured, maybe if we put all of the questions or comments that Bobby hasn't responded to in ONE central location, maybe he'll see them all and respond! :p

Jersey Yankee
11-22-02, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by Soriambi
I figured, maybe if we put all of the questions or comments that Bobby hasn't responded to in ONE central location, maybe he'll see them all and respond! :p Don't hold your breath -- you might turn blue!!!

bobby jr
11-23-02, 09:20 AM
OK if I can find time I will show from box scores and L VS R stats last year how my strategy would have helped the Orioles beat the Yanks.

Soriambi
11-23-02, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by bobby jr
OK if I can find time I will show from box scores and L VS R stats last year how my strategy would have helped the Orioles beat the Yanks.

Alright! Can't wait!

JY- This is true. :eek: :lol:lol: :D

Jersey Yankee
11-23-02, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by bobby jr
OK if I can find time I will show from box scores and L VS R stats last year how my strategy would have helped the Orioles beat the Yanks. Please also make sure that _LOGIC_ is used, such as:

"Rather than using LHP _______, I feel that RHP ________ would've been better in that situation, because ____________."

From the made-up quote above, a barrage of info can be easily had, but unless it has a focus, a purpose, a beginning, middle and end, a conclusion, it's just a long sad tale, IMO!!! Please also stress attention to the _SPECIFIC_ pitcher you're referring to, why he may be ideal or at least presents the best opportunity f/victory in such a situation.

Don't worry, we'll be here if/when you "find the time" to post your stuff!!!
Originally posted by Soriambi
Alright! Can't wait!

JY- This is true. :eek: :lol:lol: :D Like a fly rubbing its "legs" together before a meal, all I can say is:

I WANNA EAT!!!

Soriambi
11-23-02, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Jersey Yankee

Like a fly rubbing its "legs" together before a meal, all I can say is:

I WANNA EAT!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: Exactly. :D

Bobby, what he's trying to say is....don't say" I would use my LEFTY STARTER so that they would take out Jason Giambi and then bring in my RIGHTY STARTER so that we have the advantage!!!!

YankyDave
11-23-02, 03:27 PM
Bobby, I enjoyed the Yankees playoff game far more than you enjoyed the Orioles playoff game. Oops, I forgot when you consistently lose 90+ games, you don't make the playoffs. The worst part about losing that many games is your idiot fans have to try and come up with assinine ways to win a few more games. Basically, the way to win more games is to have talent. I'm sure old that old coot Thrift will find you a few more gems so your boys can scrap to .500 in August before collapsing once again. Must be fun to not only be a fan of a team that bad but to also defend the way they're managed.

You still haven't answered what team your ridiculous pitching change would work against. What team platoons so much that you could pull that off? I know you're just avoiding answering the questions because you're getting your rocks off watching another one of your stupid threads grow in number. Maybe you should get back to practicing that walking and chewing gum at the same time thing you have trouble with.