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b-ball-lunachick
10-01-01, 12:57 PM
Thought this was a good article on the Knicks...I wish they would have gotten a big man -- still upset we didn't get Webber and that we signed Houston....would love to dump Ward and still love Camby and Spree...and I like the couple acquisitions we did make......I just don't know if it will be enough...who knows though -- if that tragedy hadn't happened to Camby last year, I think we would have gone much further in the playoffs -- not saying all the way, but further...

what do you guys think?

Knicks: Minor changes, but not much potential

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By Eric Karabell
ESPN.com

http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2001/0928/1256520.html

Was this a good summer to be a Knicks fan? Well, if you're a big fan of Clarence Weatherspoon, it was. If you were fond of Glen Rice, it wasn't. If you felt a good point guard had to be acquired, it wasn't. But if you thought Luc Longley was just wasting space, it was. Maybe you see what we're getting at here. The bench has changed, but overall, there weren't major adjustments. Will it be enough? Marcus Camby averaged a double-double, but isn't a true center.

So as we continue our 2001 Summer Spotlight Series, here's the deal with the Knicks.

The good: As good as Allan Houston and Latrell Sprewell can be, the best part of this team is probably underrated coach Jeff Van Gundy, who managed to overcome having too many swingmen and a bare cupboard at point guard and center to win 48 games and earn a home playoff series. How many wins is a coach worth? In this case, quite a few.

Now that Rice has been sent packing, fetching less than what he should be worth in reserves Howard Eisley and Shandon Anderson, nobody can complain about that crowded small forward situation. While Eisley joins a crowded and unappealing situation at the point, Anderson will be an athletic backup on a team that hardly fits his running style. But hey, you wanted Rice outta town, right?

Houston and Sprewell never really lost playing time or effectiveness with Rice around, each having fine seasons worthy of All-Star recognition. They combined for 36.5 points a game and easily led the team in minutes, while Rice often struggled to find his shot and, ultimately, stay healthy. A potential ugly offseason with free agent Houston was avoided when the Knicks paid him like a top 10 player, which he is not, giving him an incredible $100 million for six seasons. While Houston can drain the outside shot as well as most, Sprewell's still the best player on the team because he defends very well, can create his shot and get to the line, none of which Houston does.

Marcus Camby was good again, managing to suit up 63 times and produce solidly at both ends of the court. But he's far too thin and brittle to play center on any regular basis, and the Knicks know it. Still, what other options are there? Longley? Travis Knight? They couldn't have moved Rice for a big man? Bottom line is every team could use a big man like that, and adding the undersized Weatherspoon solves nothing.


The bad: Ask Van Gundy about the situations at center and point guard and you might hear him preach that the positions are overrated. Indeed, a team with Charlie Ward and Chris Childs, then Ward and Mark Jackson still managed to do well. Add up the numbers and it's not particularly pretty, but the Knicks don't score all that much, so maybe it doesn't matter. Of course, if Terrell Brandon were manning the point, wouldn't it stand for reason that the Knicks would score more?

Knicks basketball is certainly different than all other kinds. While the glass-is-half-full crowd will point out that no team was better on defense than the Knicks, it should be noted that only the Bulls scored less. What that makes is for boring basketball.

Defensively Camby did a nice job. He joined with bulkier friends Kurt Thomas and Othella Harrington to form the rebounding portion of the frontcourt, such as it was. The Knicks didn't do much boardwork; only four teams were worse at rebounding the ball. Now you can throw Weatherspoon into the mix and the best case you can make is that there's more depth.

Still, despite having three above-average players and up to 10 others who are here mainly to complement them, the Knicks manage to win. They got the home-court advantage in the first round of the playoffs and took a 2-1 lead in the series with the Raptors, before losing the final two games. But the way the Knicks were eliminated, with Sprewell and others questioning the team ("I don't know if everybody left it all out on the floor," said Spree), left fans wondering if there would be major offseason changes. There weren't.

The ugly: There's only so long that Van Gundy can be recognized as the fine coach that he is without winning something. It's not really his fault that he's missing some key components. But let's not forget that New Yorkers were ready to run -- trying to run -- Van Gundy outta town before the improbable run to the NBA Finals against the Spurs three seasons ago. That earned the coach another contract. What he needs now is more help or that Finals appearance will be a distant memory.

The future: The key members of the Knicks are signed and still in their relative primes, but past mistakes still hamper the team. Ward, for example, is impossible to trade due to a trade kicker in his $6 million deal. Knight's deal, thanks to Rick Pitino, is embarrassing in relation to what he has proven, and don't even ask about Larry Johnson. He is one wealthy grandmama and he's about as healthy as one.

But based on the philosophy the team plays, stressing defense and rooting for 85-83 nailbiters, the Knicks are a playoff team and if things break the right way, maybe more. Who thought that this No. 8 seed could beat the Heat? What about winning 48 games with some of the lineups they out out there last season?

However, there's little hope that this group will do anything more than overachieve, which means talent wise it has no right winning 50 games. And after a while you wonder if that will be enough for Knicks fans.

So we ask you this question about the Knicks: In improving this team would you tinker with the big three of Houston, Sprewell and Camby, or still attempt to build around it?

Winger03
10-01-01, 02:27 PM
Luna, stop baiting Ansky39. He is a Clippers fan now, just leave him alone! :D :D :D

Ansky39
10-02-01, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by b-ball-lunachick
[COLOR=darkblue] the best part of this team is probably underrated coach Jeff Van Gundy, who managed to overcome having too many swingmen and a bare cupboard at point guard and center to win 48 games and earn a home playoff series. How many wins is a coach worth? In this case, quite a few.

WHA'!!!!!!http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/blackeye/SHOCKED.gif

sorry luna, i stopped reading after this moronic statement... please warn me next time you post a van frugal millionaire baised article... now i got coffee all over my keyboard... this guy is clearly a van follicly challenged groupie... who in their right mind would credit van offensively inept w/ any of our success... i mean the knicks success... i don't have to revsist our history too much here since it's common knowledge if you simply do a search of van numb nuts in this forum, so i'll be brief (as brief as i can be) here... we all know, he wouldn't start spree or camby bitched about losing vertically challeneged bruiser oakley, and div 3 one time wonder starks, bitched about losing decrepid old whiner pat, refused to start rice, plays spree out of position in favor of his favored anti semite golden child houston, banished childs to the bench and then to toronto in favor of osama bin ward and lard ass jackson who were both throroughly outplayed by childs and jacksons former backup, still adamantly asserts that grandmama figures significantly in the knicks plans for the coming seas, can't count past 8 even though he's got at least 10 fingers and 12 capable players, got the architect of one of the deepest most expensive teams in the league fired and exiled to milwaukie where he, like childs in torornto enjoyed more success than we did last seas, refuses to allow thorobreds like spree and camby to run insisting on walking the ball up the court 50 times a night, blamed god for our sorry season last year, refuses to start a front court of camby and thomas because of his almost homosexual infatuation w/ larry johnson and still refuses to trade in that peice of ................ slow as ................ oh so practical honda civic for a high priced european sports car more worthy of one of the highest paid coached of the team that plays in the mecca of basketball... that last reason alone oughtta tell ya this jerk has no clue.. give him a bike and he'll carry it on his back... give him a gun and he'll empoty the clip and throw the bullets, give him a loaded team and he'll bench all the best players and force them to play like him, a div III point guard.... he sucks, i still haven't officially dumped that team, i love spree and camby and thomas and like the new kids eisley and anderson, but I HATE THAT ................IN BUM COACH, I HATE HIM I HATE HIM I HATE HIM... ugh, i need anudda cup of joe...http://www.mpz.co.uk/cwm/contrib/edoom/_sure.gif

sorry winger couldn't avoid da bate...

b-ball-lunachick
10-04-01, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Winger03
Luna, stop baiting Ansky39. He is a Clippers fan now, just leave him alone! :D :D :D

LMAO, Jim!! :D Baiting ansky about the Knicks?? No baiting needed, just mention Van Gundy or Van No O' as he calls him and there's your explosion!! :D

And I wore him down...he's giving them a one year probation period before he swings to the Clippers full time!! That was no small feat either!! :D

b-ball-lunachick
10-04-01, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Ansky39


WHA'!!!!!!http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/blackeye/SHOCKED.gif

sorry luna, i stopped reading after this moronic statement... please warn me next time you post a van frugal millionaire baised article... now i got coffee all over my keyboard... this guy is clearly a van follicly challenged groupie... who in their right mind would credit van offensively inept w/ any of our success... i mean the knicks success... i don't have to revsist our history too much here since it's common knowledge if you simply do a search of van numb nuts in this forum, so i'll be brief (as brief as i can be) here... we all know, he wouldn't start spree or camby bitched about losing vertically challeneged bruiser oakley, and div 3 one time wonder starks, bitched about losing decrepid old whiner pat, refused to start rice, plays spree out of position in favor of his favored anti semite golden child houston, banished childs to the bench and then to toronto in favor of osama bin ward and lard ass jackson who were both throroughly outplayed by childs and jacksons former backup, still adamantly asserts that grandmama figures significantly in the knicks plans for the coming seas, can't count past 8 even though he's got at least 10 fingers and 12 capable players, got the architect of one of the deepest most expensive teams in the league fired and exiled to milwaukie where he, like childs in torornto enjoyed more success than we did last seas, refuses to allow thorobreds like spree and camby to run insisting on walking the ball up the court 50 times a night, blamed god for our sorry season last year, refuses to start a front court of camby and thomas because of his almost homosexual infatuation w/ larry johnson and still refuses to trade in that peice of ................ slow as ................ oh so practical honda civic for a high priced european sports car more worthy of one of the highest paid coached of the team that plays in the mecca of basketball... that last reason alone oughtta tell ya this jerk has no clue.. give him a bike and he'll carry it on his back... give him a gun and he'll empoty the clip and throw the bullets, give him a loaded team and he'll bench all the best players and force them to play like him, a div III point guard.... he sucks, i still haven't officially dumped that team, i love spree and camby and thomas and like the new kids eisley and anderson, but I HATE THAT ................IN BUM COACH, I HATE HIM I HATE HIM I HATE HIM... ugh, i need anudda cup of joe...http://www.mpz.co.uk/cwm/contrib/edoom/_sure.gif

sorry winger couldn't avoid da bate...

ROTFLMAO!! Another classic post!! :lol: how's that keyboard -- get all the coffee out? :lol:

see -- I told you Van Gundy was a good coach...apparently this guy agrees with me!! :D

texasyankee
10-05-01, 10:40 AM
Lunachick - please keep an eye and an ear open for any news on a "Michael Hicks." He was not drafted in the last draft - but was a walk on and he has apparently been signed by the Knicks to try out for a spot. He played here at "Texas A&M at Corpus Christi." He apparently was first or second in scoring in the conference they played in. I only saw him play once in person - however, he was THE offense for their school. I think he had an average of around 29 or 30 points a game.

I understand he is "on the bubble." From all reports while Hicks played here, he was a "team player" and has a good work ethic. I hope the best for him. I guess his main problem is his height - I think he is around 6' 4" - probably also, he did not play in the "big college" arena.

b-ball-lunachick
10-07-01, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by texasyankee
Lunachick - please keep an eye and an ear open for any news on a "Michael Hicks." He was not drafted in the last draft - but was a walk on and he has apparently been signed by the Knicks to try out for a spot. He played here at "Texas A&M at Corpus Christi." He apparently was first or second in scoring in the conference they played in. I only saw him play once in person - however, he was THE offense for their school. I think he had an average of around 29 or 30 points a game.

I understand he is "on the bubble." From all reports while Hicks played here, he was a "team player" and has a good work ethic. I hope the best for him. I guess his main problem is his height - I think he is around 6' 4" - probably also, he did not play in the "big college" arena.

I will definitely do that Tex, and keep you posted!! :)

b-ball-lunachick
10-26-01, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by texasyankee
Lunachick - please keep an eye and an ear open for any news on a "Michael Hicks." He was not drafted in the last draft - but was a walk on and he has apparently been signed by the Knicks to try out for a spot. He played here at "Texas A&M at Corpus Christi." He apparently was first or second in scoring in the conference they played in. I only saw him play once in person - however, he was THE offense for their school. I think he had an average of around 29 or 30 points a game.

I understand he is "on the bubble." From all reports while Hicks played here, he was a "team player" and has a good work ethic. I hope the best for him. I guess his main problem is his height - I think he is around 6' 4" - probably also, he did not play in the "big college" arena.

Tex -- forgot about this for a second there but Hicks was cut from the Knicks back on October 12th...sorry :( :

excerpt from :

http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-10-13/Metro_Sports/Basketball/a-128368.asp

The Knicks trimmed their roster to 15 by releasing guard Ed Cota and forward Michael Hicks.