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View Full Version : Sandy Hook CT task force votes to tear down school, build new one on site



YankeePride1967
05-10-13, 09:32 PM
Sandy Hook task force votes to tear down Sandy Hook Elementary school (site of the December 14, 2012 massacre) and build a new one on that site.

Ram Man
05-10-13, 10:47 PM
Sandy Hook task force votes to tear down Sandy Hook Elementary school (site of the December 14, 2012 massacre) and build a new one on that site.

With all due respect to those that were affected, that is just stupid. This is just a knee-jerk reaction. They need to wait another year and then decide if it is still a good idea.

Do they think a new school on the same site is going to make people forget? Or do they think that a new school on the same site will make people remember? The people have been traumatized enough without having to lay out millions of unnecessary tax dollars.

YankeePride1967
05-11-13, 02:33 AM
I would knock it down and not use it again. The town had been discussing closing a school anyway due to declining enrollment. One thing that was not an option in my opinion was sending the kids back to the same school. That Woolf be beyond cruel. And as for renovation, that was not an option for some reason.

Nome
05-11-13, 05:48 AM
If the general opinion is to knock the school down and build a new one at the cost of Millions to the taxpayers (maybe someone can start a school building fund or get Federal money), I think it is an extremely bad idea to build the new one on the same site. Put it in an entirely different place

Andy

YankeePride1967
05-11-13, 05:57 AM
If the general opinion is to knock the school down and build a new one at the cost of Millions to the taxpayers (maybe someone can start a school building fund or get Federal money), I think it is an extremely bad idea to build the new one on the same site. Put it in an entirely different place

Andy

Andy, I agree fully. But at least they aren't sending them back to the same exact building unchanged.

I have read many posts on other sites saying Columbine didn't rebuild. Well good for them. They chose a different path, doesn't mean Newtown has to.

JL25and3
05-11-13, 09:05 AM
If the general opinion is to knock the school down and build a new one at the cost of Millions to the taxpayers (maybe someone can start a school building fund or get Federal money), I think it is an extremely bad idea to build the new one on the same site. Put it in an entirely different place

Andy
There were quite a few people who agreed quite passionately with you, that they should not return to the old site. But apparently moving to any new site was going to be considerably more complicated, expensive, and possibly divisive, involving issues like eminent domain, protection of local wetlands, and even nuts-and-bolts problems like water and sewer connections.

fredgmuggs
05-11-13, 09:18 AM
There were quite a few people who agreed quite passionately with you, that they should not return to the old site. But apparently moving to any new site was going to be considerably more complicated, expensive, and possibly divisive, involving issues like eminent domain, protection of local wetlands, and even nuts-and-bolts problems like water and sewer connections.

Eminent domain seems to be the main stumbling point for not choosing the other site (the proposed alternative Senior Athletic Field site) and that is commendable. Displacing property owners is not ideal.

But from what I've read the costs associated with either site weren't substantially different. What I saw reported was a difference between 42 and 47 million dollars.

JL25and3
05-11-13, 11:23 AM
Eminent domain seems to be the main stumbling point for not choosing the other site (the proposed alternative Senior Athletic Field site) and that is commendable. Displacing property owners is not ideal.

But from what I've read the costs associated with either site weren't substantially different. What I saw reported was a difference between 42 and 47 million dollars.
OK, so I made up the "expensive" part.

Eminent domain would definitely be a problem. That's a can of worms they don't want to open, one that could easily end up creating new wounds within the community rather than healing old ones.

jlw1980
05-11-13, 01:46 PM
If they were going to close a school, anyway, then they should just tear it down and leave the spot empty. I wouldn't want to go back to the same location if I were a kid who went to school there. I wouldn't want one of my kids going back there, either. Put up some kind of memorial, or just leave it open.

YankeePride1967
05-11-13, 01:58 PM
If they were going to close a school, anyway, then they should just tear it down and leave the spot empty. I wouldn't want to go back to the same location if I were a kid who went to school there. I wouldn't want one of my kids going back there, either. Put up some kind of memorial, or just leave it open.

I agree. It would present some geographical issues. Newtown is the fourth largest town size wise in the state and the only one in Sandy Hook. Though there is an elementary school right outside of the Sandy Hook section of Newtown and they could shift some/most of those kids to the school they were discussing mothballing (one they built about 10 years ago)

Jersey Yankee
05-13-13, 03:54 AM
Andy, I agree fully. But at least they aren't sending them back to the same exact building unchanged.

I have read many posts on other sites saying Columbine didn't rebuild. Well good for them. They chose a different path, doesn't mean Newtown has to.
I remember about 20 years ago, some McDonald's in San Diego, CA was the site of some shooting. They tore that down and built a park on that site.

I think that Andy's suggestion to seek private or federal donations seems commendable. Perhaps Vince McMahon and ESPN could be encouraged to open their wallets a bit.

For the CT residents, I've heard that the other school that the kids were moved to, was renamed Sandy Hook Elementary School. Is that a good or bad thing?

Lastly, in a related note, if/when a new school is opened on whichever site, what should they call it?

YankeePride1967
05-13-13, 09:52 AM
I remember about 20 years ago, some McDonald's in San Diego, CA was the site of some shooting. They tore that down and built a park on that site.

I think that Andy's suggestion to seek private or federal donations seems commendable. Perhaps Vince McMahon and ESPN could be encouraged to open their wallets a bit.

For the CT residents, I've heard that the other school that the kids were moved to, was renamed Sandy Hook Elementary School. Is that a good or bad thing?

Lastly, in a related note, if/when a new school is opened on whichever site, what should they call it?

I don't think the name is a big issue, but as long as they don't have to go back into the same exact building is the issue. I can tell you that there are many kids and adults that will never get over what happened on 12/14/12 (that date is this town's 9/11). Tomorrow will be five months since it happened, but things are still very raw.

Jersey Yankee
05-13-13, 02:31 PM
I don't think the name is a big issue, but as long as they don't have to go back into the same exact building is the issue. I can tell you that there are many kids and adults that will never get over what happened on 12/14/12 (that date is this town's 9/11). Tomorrow will be five months since it happened, but things are still very raw.
It's as bad as 9/11? Wow, that's deep. I'd lived nearby the WTC (Hudson County, NJ), and had just moved a few months ago then from Brooklyn Heights, where we saw the WTC every day if you went to the Promenade.

OK, so once we get past how badly people felt about the whole situation (not trying to belittle anyone's feelings here), who pays for the $45-60M? These bids usually go up a bit from what was originally bid for.

Other than the non-firearms manufacturers (excluded for obvious reasons), which CT firms do you think would kick in a few million? I've mentioned WWE and ESPN. Perhaps a few of the many insurance firms could help out?

YankeePride1967
05-13-13, 02:41 PM
It's as bad as 9/11? Wow, that's deep. I'd lived nearby the WTC (Hudson County, NJ), and had just moved a few months ago then from Brooklyn Heights, where we saw the WTC every day if you went to the Promenade.

OK, so once we get past how badly people felt about the whole situation (not trying to belittle anyone's feelings here), who pays for the $45-60M? These bids usually go up a bit from what was originally bid for.

Other than the non-firearms manufacturers (excluded for obvious reasons), which CT firms do you think would kick in a few million? I've mentioned WWE and ESPN. Perhaps a few of the many insurance firms could help out?

For the town it is. Obviously it wasn't as big as 9/11 as more lives were lost then but because of the size of the town and the age of the victims, the town is still in shock. Not sure yet as to who will pay for it. Agreed, firearm companies helping would be very awkward.

Jersey Yankee
05-14-13, 11:00 AM
For the town it is. Obviously it wasn't as big as 9/11 as more lives were lost then but because of the size of the town and the age of the victims, the town is still in shock. Not sure yet as to who will pay for it. Agreed, firearm companies helping would be very awkward.
Rick, I think you have fair points re 9/11 comparisons. Despite this not having been a well-planned terroristic attack aimed at a specific target (both the city and the structures), it hit at the core due to the age of the 20 or so victims. This led to national outrage, and was deemed to have been highly personal in its effect.

I think that some corporate contributions could be encouraged. As mentioned, there are quite a few insurance firms in Hartford, I think is where they're located (either there or Stamford), and of course, Vince McMahon's WWE, as well as ESPN.

I have no idea how much Newtown's budget can afford, nor how much the federal government will eventually grant them. If individual contributions from those who've made their money could also be added to the mix, then this could be done.

My mentioning the various CT-based firearms firms is two-fold: the gun was used in the crime, and they went triple-overtime on manufacturing guns and accessories after the shooting. They'd never be able to donate funds w/o being called out unless they did so anonymously.

A good day to you in Connecticut, and the same for Vicki, Muggs & Sir Boz.

4bronxbombers
05-14-13, 12:25 PM
I think it should be torn down. I personally wouldn't want to go to school in the brand new building IF it were right over the one that was torn down. I wonder how the town is going to vote on this one. I have a feeling they won't want the new school over the last one but we'll see.

YankeePride1967
05-14-13, 01:26 PM
I think it should be torn down. I personally wouldn't want to go to school in the brand new building IF it were right over the one that was torn down. I wonder how the town is going to vote on this one. I have a feeling they won't want the new school over the last one but we'll see.

I don't believe there will be a vote from what I understand. I know from polls and talking around, very few want the building to remain as is. The issue with moving it is that it would require emminent domain as the other discussed property is owned by an unknown corporation. What they intend on doing is making the building different and also even changing the entrance to the school. Like you said I wouldn't want to go back there so thinking of kids that young that are already traumatized. I'm not even sure the new building will be enough but at least it's not the exact same.

Jersey Yankee
05-14-13, 02:14 PM
I think it should be torn down. I personally wouldn't want to go to school in the brand new building IF it were right over the one that was torn down. I wonder how the town is going to vote on this one. I have a feeling they won't want the new school over the last one but we'll see.Vicki, can you, Rizzo or Muggsy tell me about the approximate size of Newtown? Like how many cops there are, or the total population? Is it larger than Manhattan? Or larger than Manhattan + the Bronx?

Was there any other school in that city which was set to be closed that could be converted into use as the "new Sandy Hook" (for wont of a better term)?

Could the current land site be raised, then converted to be a park, or used as some kind of memorial to those students who were taken from us far too early?

Jersey Yankee
05-14-13, 02:19 PM
I don't believe there will be a vote from what I understand. I know from polls and talking around, very few want the building to remain as is. The issue with moving it is that it would require emminent domain as the other discussed property is owned by an unknown corporation. What they intend on doing is making the building different and also even changing the entrance to the school. Like you said I wouldn't want to go back there so thinking of kids that young that are already traumatized. I'm not even sure the new building will be enough but at least it's not the exact same.
How many sites, and which ones were being discussed re eminent domain?

There is no place in Newtown, CT, other than the ones mentioned, where a new school with proper school facilities could reasonably be built?

YankeePride1967
05-14-13, 03:36 PM
Brad, Newtown is by size, the fourth largest town in the state but not heavily populated. Around 30,000 people I believe. I think they could shift the students to another elementary school in town just outside the Sandy Hook section and move those kids to the intermediate school that was being discussed for mothballing. But that would open up the sensitivity of removing the only elementary school from that section (the high school is located in Sandy Hook, a few miles from the now vacated elementary school). The plot of land has been the only one discussed but it was decided the time it would take to go through the emminent domain process wasn't worth it.

Jersey Yankee
05-19-13, 04:58 PM
Brad, Newtown is by size, the fourth largest town in the state but not heavily populated. Around 30,000 people I believe. I think they could shift the students to another elementary school in town just outside the Sandy Hook section and move those kids to the intermediate school that was being discussed for mothballing. But that would open up the sensitivity of removing the only elementary school from that section (the high school is located in Sandy Hook, a few miles from the now vacated elementary school). The plot of land has been the only one discussed but it was decided the time it would take to go through the emminent domain process wasn't worth it.
So the intermediate school slated for closure was being considered for closure due to failing grades?

The reason I asked for the number of cops is that is sometimes indicative of either the overall population, or its crime rate. In Jersey City, we have around 200,000 people, and 900 cops. Of course, that's no comparison, which has 40+ times as many people and cops.

I'd agree that eminent domain would be a bad thing. I'm not totally familiar with the process, but it's like something is being condemned then seized. I remember that Rudy Giuliani did that with the various sleazy movie theaters once he got into office, leading to the total renovation of Times Square (and laying the groundwork for both a Disney theme store and Broadway play (Lion King)).

I'm not familiar with eminent domain being used for an educational facility.

ChinMusic
05-19-13, 10:41 PM
Seems pretty irresponsible to just destroy an asset worth tens of millions of dollars. Why not just mothball it for a few years until all the kids currently in it have moved on to middle school? Especially if there is already another school that can be taken out of mothballs that the kids can go to.

YankeePride1967
05-20-13, 12:55 AM
So the intermediate school slated for closure was being considered for closure due to failing grades?

The reason I asked for the number of cops is that is sometimes indicative of either the overall population, or its crime rate. In Jersey City, we have around 200,000 people, and 900 cops. Of course, that's no comparison, which has 40+ times as many people and cops.

I'd agree that eminent domain would be a bad thing. I'm not totally familiar with the process, but it's like something is being condemned then seized. I remember that Rudy Giuliani did that with the various sleazy movie theaters once he got into office, leading to the total renovation of Times Square (and laying the groundwork for both a Disney theme store and Broadway play (Lion King)).

I'm not familiar with eminent domain being used for an educational facility.

No it was being discussed for closure due to declining enrollment.

YankeePride1967
05-20-13, 01:00 AM
Seems pretty irresponsible to just destroy an asset worth tens of millions of dollars. Why not just mothball it for a few years until all the kids currently in it have moved on to middle school? Especially if there is already another school that can be taken out of mothballs that the kids can go to.

First for foreclose I live in Newtown, lived there almost all my life. I would knock it down and make it a memorial. As I posted above, a school was being discussed to be closed down due to decreasing enrollment. I can't see making anyone that worked or went to school there go back (the argument I hear a lot is "Columbine didn't do it" I don't care what Columbine did. They made a decision they felt was right for them which is heir right, doesn't mean we have to do the same thing. But info agree with you there is no need to build a new school now.

Jersey Yankee
05-20-13, 04:29 PM
Seems pretty irresponsible to just destroy an asset worth tens of millions of dollars. Why not just mothball it for a few years until all the kids currently in it have moved on to middle school? Especially if there is already another school that can be taken out of mothballs that the kids can go to.
There's also the human element part that you seem to be missing here (I'm not faulting you personally).

If someone lives in a city, they may live there when they grow up. The kids even younger than the ones slain or shot, may stay in that area. That school would end up as an ugly and continuous reminder of that awful date in history.

Rick, I'll get back to you tomorrow. I have a busy schedule tonight and tomorrow afternoon. Take care.

YankeePride1967
11-01-13, 12:25 PM
They just started the process of tearing down the school last week. Voters approved a $50 million grant from the state to knock down and build a new school on the same site.