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snapple
08-15-12, 01:44 PM
For testing positive for testosterone.

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 01:47 PM
Ooops.


No wonder he was so good.

ARodCanoMelky
08-15-12, 01:48 PM
According to MLB network, Melky has been suspended 50 games without pay for testing positive for Testosterone

Mr. Mxylsplk
08-15-12, 01:48 PM
Would he be eligible for the post-season if they make it?

El Duque
08-15-12, 01:48 PM
Just heard that on WFAN. he's in a contract year, too

4bronxbombers
08-15-12, 01:49 PM
Holy crap - I was wondering where the "new Melky" was coming from. Unbelievable. How many are still doing this crap? grrrr

Yankee Fan in Boston
08-15-12, 01:50 PM
Not shocking.

Is everyone OK that he was traded now?

False1
08-15-12, 01:50 PM
Ugh. Even though Melky was one of the VERY few Yankees I've ever had a hard time rooting for, this is disappointing (although not shocking given the speed and degree of improvement).

BRNXBMRS
08-15-12, 01:50 PM
Wow!!!

snapple
08-15-12, 01:50 PM
I already posted a tread

Metal 165
08-15-12, 01:50 PM
this saddens me:(not as worse as that one December in 07(Clemens,Pettitte)

RenoHightower
08-15-12, 01:51 PM
Can someone merge the other, inferior, rogue thread with this obviously better thread?

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 01:51 PM
Would he be eligible for the post-season if they make it?

Without a superpowered Melky, their chances are lessened.

The Giants have 45 games left. So...

d32123
08-15-12, 01:54 PM
Yep, don't think we've exited the Steroid Era quite yet. Here's to hoping they catch Bautista next.

Metal 165
08-15-12, 01:55 PM
Yep, don't think we've exited the Steroid Era quite yet. Here's to hoping they catch Bautista next.

word,son

portman7387
08-15-12, 01:57 PM
He saw the dollar signs, went for it, and got caught. I don't really blame him. :dunno:

Mr. Mxylsplk
08-15-12, 01:58 PM
The Giants have 45 games left. So...

Right, that's why I was wondering. If they make it and play 5 games, would his suspension end at that point, or is he out for the post-season regardless of what happens with the team, and the first 5 games of next year?

Chacon
08-15-12, 01:58 PM
Wonder if he will go for the Braun defense and try to get off on a technicality

BeantownYankee
08-15-12, 02:01 PM
Nice...All-star MVP on roids...ok commish home field tainted

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
08-15-12, 02:01 PM
Wonder if he will go for the Braun defense and try to get off on a technicality

He released a statement basically saying, "I'm guilty, sorry."

Jax Teller
08-15-12, 02:01 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏<s>@</s>Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal) Cabrera takes responsibility in statement. "My positive test was the result of my use of a substance that I should not have used." <s>#</s>SFGiants (https://twitter.com/search/?src=hash&q=%23SFGiants)

The Anti-Ortiz.

Yankee Tripper
08-15-12, 02:02 PM
Wonder if he will go for the Braun defense and try to get off on a technicality
I think the appeals are over. supposedly this came up around the ASB but was held up announcing durring the appeals. Sounds like he's screwed from the twitter posts I've seen.

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 02:02 PM
Nice...All-star MVP on roids...ok commish home field tainted

Home Field should revert to the team without the All Star cheating MVP.

Get on that Bud.

Great point BY.

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 02:03 PM
Now we know why Cano (rightfully) shunned him on that HR.

xenadanielle
08-15-12, 02:04 PM
Holy crap - I was wondering where the "new Melky" was coming from. Unbelievable. How many are still doing this crap? grrrr

After all this time, I don't get why they think they are going to get away with it.

BronxYanks45
08-15-12, 02:04 PM
wow, really thought he turned the corner...it was all just PEDs. Damn shame, he really is just a 4th OF


I guess this means most all teams will be out of the Melky bidding war in the offseason. he was probably projected to land a 5 year $60 million dollar deal, at this point he'd be lucky to get a 2 year deal.

portman7387
08-15-12, 02:04 PM
Melky Cabrera ends his season 1 plate appearance short of qualifying for the batting crown. Pretty incredible stat.

Chacon
08-15-12, 02:04 PM
He released a statement basically saying, "I'm guilty, sorry."

Wow, honestly shocked. Good for him to come clean instead of using one of the usual eye-rolling defenses we have heard from many players over the past decade.

BeantownYankee
08-15-12, 02:06 PM
Maybe he found it in Bond's old locker...

ARodCanoMelky
08-15-12, 02:08 PM
Can someone merge the other, inferior, rogue thread with this obviously better thread?

How is it inferior ?

Yankeesfan924
08-15-12, 02:11 PM
I'm disappointed. I liked Melky.

RenoHightower
08-15-12, 02:11 PM
How is it inferior ?

You don't get invited to a lot of parties, do you?

ARodCanoMelky
08-15-12, 02:13 PM
You don't get invited to a lot of parties, do you?

Why does that matter ? is the same thread, same source.

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 02:14 PM
Why does that matter ? is the same thread, same source.

The other one is more about Melky.

JL25and3
08-15-12, 02:15 PM
Would he be eligible for the post-season if they make it?
According to ESPN.com, "The Giants have 45 games remaining this season. Cabrera's suspension will carry over into the playoffs if the Giants advance to the postseason. If not, Cabrera will be suspended for the first five games of the 2013 season." So apparently he'd be available after the first five postseason games, should the Giants make it that far..

Yankee Tripper
08-15-12, 02:15 PM
Melky Cabrera ends his season 1 plate appearance short of qualifying for the batting crown. Pretty incredible stat.
:lol: That's pretty funny.

Ram Man
08-15-12, 02:16 PM
Melky Cabrera ends his season 1 plate appearance short of qualifying for the batting crown. Pretty incredible stat.

That doesn't matter. They will add one phantom AB to his stat line to calculate his BA for the purposes of the batting championship (unless they rule him ineligible for such awards in which case the phantom AB process is moot).

ARodCanoMelky
08-15-12, 02:16 PM
The other one is more about Melky.

:lol::lol:

hardrain
08-15-12, 02:25 PM
wow.....this is really a huge blow for baseball

nnysiny
08-15-12, 02:29 PM
very disppointing

aeromac76
08-15-12, 02:31 PM
My first terrifying thought after seeing this was "Damn, I know he and Cano are friends, it would totally blow if Cano was next"

BRNXBMRS
08-15-12, 02:33 PM
According WFAN he failed the test @ the All Star break and its been in an appeal since.

Yankee Fan in Boston
08-15-12, 02:34 PM
My first terrifying thought after seeing this was "Damn, I know he and Cano are friends, it would totally blow if Cano was next"

Maybe, but there's a huge difference between the relatively normal career arc that Cano has had and the way Melky blossomed out of nowhere after being released by the Braves

4bronxbombers
08-15-12, 02:35 PM
At least he helped the NL get HFA. What a bunch of crap. Do something about this Bud. He failed the test at the All-Star break?? :wtf:

teknetic
08-15-12, 02:37 PM
Damn, I had written up a post about the light potentially turning on for him and deleted it. He was in line to cash in on a 5/75 type of contract. Ouch.

RenoHightower
08-15-12, 02:37 PM
The other one is more about Melky.

Exactly.

__starr69
08-15-12, 02:40 PM
According to ESPN.com, "The Giants have 45 games remaining this season. Cabrera's suspension will carry over into the playoffs if the Giants advance to the postseason. If not, Cabrera will be suspended for the first five games of the 2013 season." So apparently he'd be available after the first five postseason games, should the Giants make it that far..

But would a non-juiced Melky be productive in the playoffs after 7-8 weeks off? They may keep him benched considering this.

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 02:42 PM
But would a non-juiced Melky be productive in the playoffs after 7-8 weeks off?

It would be "stand up" of the Giants if they stated that he was through for the year even if they advance in the playoffs.

teknetic
08-15-12, 02:43 PM
Melky Cabrera ends his season 1 plate appearance short of qualifying for the batting crown. Pretty incredible stat.

This is pretty crazy. 501 to 502, damn.

BobLoblaw
08-15-12, 02:46 PM
Ah, so that explains it.

RhodyYanksFan
08-15-12, 02:47 PM
According WFAN he failed the test @ the All Star break and its been in an appeal since.

So does the NL forfeit home field advantage now?

RenoHightower
08-15-12, 02:48 PM
It would be "stand up" of the Giants if they stated that he was through for the year even if they advance in the playoffs.

Ok. Why?

BobbytheMurcer
08-15-12, 02:49 PM
So maybe we can get him to sign a one year job, cheap...

crossfire
08-15-12, 02:49 PM
Sad because I always liked Melky but his problem was always a lack of maturity. I'm not surprised at all by this.

BRNXBMRS
08-15-12, 02:51 PM
So does the NL forfeit home field advantage now?

Another blemish on Clueless Buds resume.

Mr. Mxylsplk
08-15-12, 02:51 PM
According to ESPN.com, "The Giants have 45 games remaining this season. Cabrera's suspension will carry over into the playoffs if the Giants advance to the postseason. If not, Cabrera will be suspended for the first five games of the 2013 season." So apparently he'd be available after the first five postseason games, should the Giants make it that far..

Thanks.

BRNXBMRS
08-15-12, 02:53 PM
This was just mentioned on WFAN. Dated from 7/28/12

Giants beat writer apologizes to Melky Cabrera about PED rumor (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/28/giants-beat-writer-apologizes-to-melky-cabrera-for-ped-rumor/)




You see, there was a nasty rumor flying around on Twitter that Giants outfielder Melky Cabrera (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/489/melky-cabrera) had tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs. Andrew Baggarly of CSNBayArea.com decided to ask Cabrera about it. Cabrera categorically denied the rumors, saying MLB hasn’t informed him or the players union about a positive test. He even contacted his agent to make sure. Baggarly then decided to pass (http://www.csnbayarea.com/baseball-san-francisco-giants/giants-talk/Surprised-Cabrera-dismisses-rumor?blockID=747501&feedID=2539) along (https://twitter.com/CSNBaggs/status/228997957175889920) word of Cabrera’s denial. However, Baggarly later had regrets of acknowledging the rumor in the first place and issued a public apology to Cabrera.


http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/28/giants-beat-writer-apologizes-to-melky-cabrera-for-ped-rumor/

Yankee Fan in Boston
08-15-12, 02:53 PM
So maybe we can get him to sign a one year job, cheap...

His next move is really interesting, because he was just not that good before 2011

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 02:58 PM
Ok. Why?

Because it would send a message that they don't stand for cheaters. They already have the highest profile cheater in their history.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
08-15-12, 02:58 PM
That doesn't matter. They will add one phantom AB to his stat line to calculate his BA for the purposes of the batting championship (unless they rule him ineligible for such awards in which case the phantom AB process is moot).

I think this has happened before (Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs maybe?).

So Cabrera is 159-for-459 (.3464). The phantom plate appearance would make him 159-for-460, or .3456. If no one hits above that, he wins the batting title even without the minimum PAs.

kongull
08-15-12, 03:00 PM
But steroids don't help....


I am getting a lot of joy from this suspension.

effdamets
08-15-12, 03:05 PM
I guess Melky was sitting in Barry old locker.... :lol:

__starr69
08-15-12, 03:06 PM
I think this has happened before (Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs maybe?).

So Cabrera is 159-for-459 (.3464). The phantom plate appearance would make him 159-for-460, or .3456. If no one hits above that, he wins the batting title even without the minimum PAs.

I really, really hope someone passes him. If Melky technically wins, do they award him the title or not? It's not like his season was ended because of an injury-- he tested positive for PEDs. It's a slippery slope; damned if they do damned if they don't.

The_Man_With_No_Plan
08-15-12, 03:09 PM
So maybe we can get him to sign a one year job, cheap...

This is what I'm thinking. I would love to get Melky back... might make up a bit for the terrible trade.

roblyo33
08-15-12, 03:16 PM
Why didn't he use the milk shake excuse??

Mr. Mxylsplk
08-15-12, 03:18 PM
I really, really hope someone passes him. If Melky technically wins, do they award him the title or not? It's not like his season was ended because of an injury-- he tested positive for PEDs. It's a slippery slope; damned if they do damned if they don't.

MLB has never undone anyone's stats when they've tested positive, so I think if he finishes ahead of everyone, he'd be the batting champ.

ETA - if McCutchen plays regularly the rest of the way, he'd have to hit in the neighborhood of .315 to stay ahead of Melky, depending on how many at-bats he gets. Well below where he is now, but still a hefty average.

effdamets
08-15-12, 03:22 PM
MLB has never undone anyone's stats when they've tested positive, so I think if he finishes ahead of everyone, he'd be the batting champ.
Will he even qualify?

EDIT: Unless he plays in another regualr season game, Melky will not qualify for the batting title. He only has 501 PAs. He needs 502.

Mr.Muhozi
08-15-12, 03:22 PM
This was just mentioned on WFAN. Dated from 7/28/12

Giants beat writer apologizes to Melky Cabrera about PED rumor (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/28/giants-beat-writer-apologizes-to-melky-cabrera-for-ped-rumor/)




http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/28/giants-beat-writer-apologizes-to-melky-cabrera-for-ped-rumor/

Soooo, he isn't guilty?

Mr. Mxylsplk
08-15-12, 03:24 PM
Will he even qualify?


As Ryman posted, yes. He'll get charged with 1 unsuccessful phantom at-bat to bring him up to the minimum to qualify. Though I suppose they could say that being suspended is different than simply missing time, so he doesn't get the usual treatment of having his average adjusted in this manner.

Snatch Catch
08-15-12, 03:25 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏<S>@</S>Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal)Cabrera takes responsibility in statement. "My positive test was the result of my use of a substance that I should not have used." <S>#</S>SFGiants (https://twitter.com/search/?src=hash&q=%23SFGiants)

The Anti-Ortiz.

this isn't getting enough attention. I'm pretty much rooting for the guy now, as weird as that sounds.

justtxyank
08-15-12, 03:27 PM
Melky moves to Miami to train with A-Rod this year and then he gets popped for PEDs.

BRNXBMRS
08-15-12, 03:36 PM
Soooo, he isn't guilty?

Apparently there was a rumor that he afailed a drug test around the ASB. This reporter approached Melky and Melky denied it and got upset and the reporter issued an apology.

JL25and3
08-15-12, 03:38 PM
I think this has happened before (Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs maybe?).

So Cabrera is 159-for-459 (.3464). The phantom plate appearance would make him 159-for-460, or .3456. If no one hits above that, he wins the batting title even without the minimum PAs.
It definitely happened with Gwynn in 1996.

OlgMvp
08-15-12, 03:38 PM
That's a shame, I never really disliked Melky. I wasn't upset losing him in the Vaz deal honestly, I was happy for him but it's really not surprising that he was caught for this. I never thought he was more than a third outfielder at best.

Yankee Tripper
08-15-12, 03:44 PM
Why didn't he use the MELK-shake excuse??
Hope you don't mind me editing you. ;)

Yankee Tripper
08-15-12, 03:45 PM
this isn't getting enough attention. I'm pretty much rooting for the guy now, as weird as that sounds.
I'm not rooting for him because of it. I just think he's an honest D-bag instead of an underhanded one.

hardrain
08-15-12, 03:52 PM
This whole "add a hitless at bat" that ML will do so that Melky qualifies seems totally wrong to me.
Either a player has the required amount of plate appearances or he does not. I hate rules that have wriggle room.
http://cache.jezebel.com/assets/images/39/2011/02/medium_jj21711.gif

RenoHightower
08-15-12, 03:55 PM
This whole "add a hitless at bat" that ML will do so that Melky qualifies seems totally wrong to me.
Either a player has the required amount of plate appearances or he does not. I hate rules that have wriggle room.
http://cache.jezebel.com/assets/images/39/2011/02/medium_jj21711.gif

The point is to remove any advantage the player got from the smaller sample. If you assume that he would have made an out in an extra PA, what's the advantage there?

RenoHightower
08-15-12, 03:56 PM
Because it would send a message that they don't stand for cheaters. They already have the highest profile cheater in their history.

This sounds pretty sanctimonious.

hardrain
08-15-12, 03:58 PM
The point is to remove any advantage the player got from the smaller sample. If you assume that he would have made an out in an extra PA, what's the advantage there?

I know but rules are rules....the man did not have the requisite number of at bats. I realize now that Tony Gwynn won a title once with 496 PAs. Not right.

RenoHightower
08-15-12, 04:00 PM
I know but rules are rules....the man did not have the requisite number of at bats. I realize now that Tony Gwynn won a title once with 496 PAs. Not right.

Yes, rules are rules. In this case, the rule is that if you don't have enough PAs, you're credited with enough outs to bring you up to the minimum for the purpose of the batting title. The rule doesn't say that 501 PAs means your season didn't count. The rule is in place to prevent a guy from winning the batting title with only a handful of at-bats. I still don't understand your problem with it.

parkerstrong
08-15-12, 04:03 PM
I think this has happened before (Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs maybe?).

So Cabrera is 159-for-459 (.3464). The phantom plate appearance would make him 159-for-460, or .3456. If no one hits above that, he wins the batting title even without the minimum PAs.

They can't take away his batting title either.....that would open up another can of worms. That said, I'm sure many MLB people will be hoping McCutchen can keep it up

hardrain
08-15-12, 04:06 PM
Yes, rules are rules. In this case, the rule is that if you don't have enough PAs, you're credited with enough outs to bring you up to the minimum for the purpose of the batting title. The rule doesn't say that 501 PAs means your season didn't count. The rule is in place to prevent a guy from winning the batting title with only a handful of at-bats. I still don't understand your problem with it.

The way you keep a "guy from winning the batting title with only a handful of at-bats" is to stick with the 502 requirement. No one is saying "your season didn't count." The point is he is one PA shy of qualifying.

parkerstrong
08-15-12, 04:06 PM
The point is to remove any advantage the player got from the smaller sample. If you assume that he would have made an out in an extra PA, what's the advantage there?

I agree with you, there isnt an advantage there. Adding empty at-bats is a disadvantage.

parkerstrong
08-15-12, 04:09 PM
The way you keep a "guy from winning the batting title with only a handful of at-bats" is to stick with the 502 requirement. No one is saying "your season didn't count." The point is he is one PA shy of qualifying.

If someone has a high enough batting average that he can add empty at-bats and still win the batting title, they deserve the batting crown.

Mr. Mxylsplk
08-15-12, 04:10 PM
The way you keep a "guy from winning the batting title with only a handful of at-bats" is to stick with the 502 requirement. No one is saying "your season didn't count." The point is he is one PA shy of qualifying.

Like Reno, I'm not really following. There's a minimum so no one benefits from an overly small sample size. The adjustment for guys below the minimum serves to eliminate any such benefit.

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 04:11 PM
This sounds pretty sanctimonious.


8 on a scale of 1-10.

hardrain
08-15-12, 04:15 PM
I agree with you, there isnt an advantage there. Adding empty at-bats is a disadvantage.

but adding a single empty at bat is NOT a disadvantage IF it gets you a batting crown that you DID not have another PAs to qualify for in the first place.

Bottom line here is that Melky will win the crown while not having the minimum PAs -- cut and dry.

Anyway, have at it...I don't want to argue anymore. Time to make some gefilte fiish.

CalYankeeFan
08-15-12, 04:19 PM
I know but rules are rules....the man did not have the requisite number of at bats. I realize now that Tony Gwynn won a title once with 496 PAs. Not right.

I agree totally. When you lower the established standard, you just established a new standard. Exceptions to the rule establish new rules.

You end up penalizing the players that have over 502 AB's. As someone else said, its a slippery slope.

As for Melky, I'm disappointed, but not surprised.

hardrain
08-15-12, 04:20 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_S3XEraQZjGk/SOXz-EHNsZI/AAAAAAAACdg/n102_1GwGf0/s400/china+melamine+contaminated+milk+tainted+milk+toxic+chinese+milk+melamine.jpg

parkerstrong
08-15-12, 04:27 PM
but adding a single empty at bat is NOT a disadvantage IF it gets you a batting crown that you DID not have another PAs to qualify for in the first place.

Bottom line here is that Melky will win the crown while not having the minimum PAs -- cut and dry.

Anyway, have at it...I don't want to argue anymore. Time to make some gefilte fiish.

The point is someone shouldnt be penalized if his team doesnt get him enough PA (lower in the order/winning home games so they dont bat in the 9th). It is possible to only get 2 plate appearances each game. The requirement for a batting title is not 502 plate appearances, but 3.1 plate appearances a game (which happens to be 502 for a full season. Strike-shortened seasons obviously have a different total.) The rule has been in place for a very long time, this isnt a new rule.

The rule was probably put in place in case of injuries, not steroid suspensions. If Tony Gwynn hit .385 but fell 5 plate appearances short he should still win the title over someone with a batting average of .327.

FYI-watching Felix on MLB.tv. Its a free game to watch, and Felix is perfect through 7 innings in a 1-0 game versus Tampa Bay. Felix is just nasty.

hardrain
08-15-12, 04:33 PM
If Tony Gwynn hit .385 but fell 5 plate appearances short he should still win the title over someone with a batting average of .327.


I know I am in the minority, but in this case the man who hit .327 should win the batting title. Otherwise the 3.1 per or the 502 are meaningless.

Art Vanderlay
08-15-12, 04:36 PM
First of all, I'm not surprised by this news at all, quite frankly I expected it. I'm basing that statement on performance and the physical changes in the player. A word of caution to all of you who are giddy about this news and are casting stones at others such as Bautista. There are players on every team, including the Yankees, that have had a rather remarkable change in physical apperance coinciding with a boost in power/performance. We have one batting right in the middle of our lineup. Many of you will feign outrage at my statement, but I believe deep down you know who I'm referring to. I'll leave it at that.

parkerstrong
08-15-12, 04:37 PM
I know I am in the minority, but in this case the man who hit .327 should win the batting title. Otherwise the 3.1 per or the 502 are meaningless.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. I'm glad the rule is in place.

parkerstrong
08-15-12, 04:40 PM
First of all, I'm not surprised by this news at all, quite frankly I expected it. I'm basing that statement on performance and the physical changes in the player. A word of caution to all of you who are giddy about this news and are casting stones at others such as Bautista. There are players on every team, including the Yankees, that have had a rather remarkable change in physical apperance coinciding with a boost in power/performance. We have one batting right in the middle of our lineup. Many of you will feign outrage at my statement, but I believe deep down you know who I'm referring to. I'll leave it at that.

Bold statement to make, especially leaving it rather vague who you think it is.

hardrain
08-15-12, 04:43 PM
Bold statement to make, especially leaving it rather vague who you think it is.

I think he's talking about Eric Chavez. Russel Martin is probably off the hook.

Art Vanderlay
08-15-12, 04:43 PM
Bold statement to make, especially leaving it rather vague who you think it is.

I'm probably one of the few who post here that have rooted for this team in all 3 Yankee stadiums. I'm a loyal and dedicated fan but I'm also objective and not naive. The PED era is not over, despite what some might what you to believe. Every team, including the Yankees, still have cheaters on the roster.

Jax Teller
08-15-12, 04:44 PM
How....cryptic yet very uninformative & not at all ground breaking that you think the PED era isn't over.

fredgmuggs
08-15-12, 04:46 PM
Ugh. Even though Melky was one of the VERY few Yankees I've ever had a hard time rooting for, this is disappointing (although not shocking given the speed and degree of improvement).

I'm never disappointed when someone is caught because my policy is I believe they're all cheating.

Yankee Tripper
08-15-12, 04:47 PM
I know I am in the minority, but in this case the man who hit .327 should win the batting title. Otherwise the 3.1 per or the 502 are meaningless.
But that's the rule. as has been stated Gwynn won the batting title in 1996 with 498 PAs. His AVe was .353 that year but was re-calculated with an additional 0-4. Gwynn's theoretical AVE of .349 was still ahead of Ellis Burkes who finished second at .344 so Gwynn was awarded the NL batting title.

You don't have to like the rule, that's fine. Personally I don't really care one way or the other.

GordonGecko
08-15-12, 05:20 PM
For testing positive for testosterone.

They should test Dustin Pedroia. What's the penalty for testing positive for estrogen?

NelsonMuntz
08-15-12, 05:23 PM
And in other breaking news, scientists have discovered that water is indeed wet. Seriously, is anyone really surprised by this development?

jcarey
08-15-12, 05:37 PM
And in other breaking news, scientists have discovered that water is indeed wet. Seriously, is anyone really surprised by this development?

Not really. It seems like the perfectly logical thing to do after you get cut from a major league team. What did he have to lose?

ieddyi
08-15-12, 05:54 PM
this isn't getting enough attention. I'm pretty much rooting for the guy now, as weird as that sounds.

Well, the positive test was around the ASB, so he and his lawyers were probably looking for a Braun like escape. He did appeal , so his manning up now puts him ahead of Dbags like Ortiz ( and most players ) but how much credit does he really deserve?

Yankees61
08-15-12, 06:16 PM
Yep, don't think we've exited the Steroid Era quite yet. Here's to hoping they catch Bautista next.

Are you saying that hitting a HR once in every 38 ABs over the course of 6 years, then hitting a HR every 11 ABs over thext 3 years is suspicious? ;)

The guy in my avatar is the REAL single-season HR king.

ArodEra
08-15-12, 06:20 PM
Well, the positive test was around the ASB, so he and his lawyers were probably looking for a Braun like escape. He did appeal , so his manning up now puts him ahead of Dbags like Ortiz ( and most players ) but how much credit does he really deserve?

Agree with your sentiments. Speaking of d-bags, the biggest one of all is Ortiz, and not because of the uniform but because of his statements that players using PEDs are disgracing their families and should be banned from the game. I wonder how disgraced he and his family feel.

4trainEddie
08-15-12, 06:20 PM
getting caught has cost him minimum $40 million on signing a multi year contract this off season.
he was making 6 this year , thats down to 4 now.
after taxes and agents fees , he might bank 2 for 2012.
with at least 3 kids and their mama's, he's crying for sure now.

he might get a one year 7 mil to prove himself for 2013.


what happened to the youtube video of him and the chick in the hotel room from a few years ago?

Cano is a free agent after next year,
amigo de la buena suerte

Jace
08-15-12, 06:22 PM
I know I am in the minority, but in this case the man who hit .327 should win the batting title. Otherwise the 3.1 per or the 502 are meaningless.

You just want the rule to be different than it is. The rule is that if you have less than 502 ABs, you still qualify for the batting title, but the denominator in your batting average is 502 and the number of hits you have is still the numerator. Thus someone who went 10-20 and hit an awesome .500 before they got injured and missed the rest of the season hits only .010 for the purposes of the batting title and won't win

There isn't a hard minimum, there is nothing really cosmically significant about having 3.1 ABs per game (its fairly arbitrary), someone that is by far the best hitter but had 501 ABs is still the best hitter

Ram Man
08-15-12, 06:59 PM
You just want the rule to be different than it is. The rule is that if you have less than 502 ABs, you still qualify for the batting title, but the denominator in your batting average is 502 and the number of hits you have is still the numerator.

If memory serves (and it may not in this case) I believe this first came up during the 1980 season when George Brett was over .400 in September but had missed enough games due to injury that there was a question about whether he would win the batting title. It was decided that he would qualify for the batting title if phantom ABs were added to his total to bring his PA count up to 502. As it turned out, he exceeded 502 PAs so the point was moot. However, the phantom AB policy was then adopted to address this situation for all leader categories that required minimum PAs.

Yanks4eva1
08-15-12, 07:00 PM
Holy smokes! I shouldn't be surprised but I am - about how incredibly stupid these players are. I think Melky looked at his friend Robbie, who actually has more talent and wanted to not only get a big payday next year, but wanted to surpass Mr. Cano and grab some of his spotlight for his own. He was a bad influence as a Yankee and this is just reflective of his character. What can you do? Just stupid.

BxBomber44
08-15-12, 07:22 PM
Melky was a bad influence as a Yankee? News to me. I always liked Melk and and glad he at least he admitted it up front - he was searching for a pay-day and got caught, so it goes. I'll never forget what Buster Olney once said... someone asked if he'd do Steroids if he was guaranteed $220 million over the course of a career (referencing manny).

daverave
08-15-12, 07:46 PM
Obligatory avatar change :(

Melky, we hardly knew ye...

theDurk
08-15-12, 07:56 PM
Obligatory avatar change :(

Melky, we hardly knew ye...

One of my all-time favorite av's...

EDIT: missed the PEDS photoshop. I need a bigger monitor.

JL25and3
08-15-12, 07:56 PM
If memory serves (and it may not in this case) I believe this first came up during the 1980 season when George Brett was over .400 in September but had missed enough games due to injury that there was a question about whether he would win the batting title. It was decided that he would qualify for the batting title if phantom ABs were added to his total to bring his PA count up to 502. As it turned out, he exceeded 502 PAs so the point was moot. However, the phantom AB policy was then adopted to address this situation for all leader categories that required minimum PAs.
The phantom AB rule was around for a few years in the 50s, and was finally adopted for good in 1967.

The standards for qualifying have changed over the years, and haven't always been the same in both leagues. According to b-r.com:



Prior to 1920, a player must have appeared in 60% of the team's games to qualify for a title. This number was rounded to the nearest integer.
From 1920-1937 (unclear, and previously thought to be until 1944), a player must have appeared in 100 games.
From 1938-1944, the AL used 400 at bats and the NL stayed with 100 games as found by Paul Rivard of SABR.
From 1945-1956, a player must have 2.6 at bats per team game. Note however, that from 1951-1954 a player could lead if they still led after the necessary number of hitless at bats were added to their at bat total.
From 1957 to the present, a player must have 3.1 plate appearances per team game. Note however, that from 1967 to the present a player could lead if they still led after the necessary number of hitless plate appearances were added to their at bat total.

Supposedly the 1954 batting title influenced the change from AB to PA as the qualifier. Ted Williams hit .345 in 526 PA - but only 386 AB, with 136 walks. Bobby Avila won the batting title at .341, but people realized it was silly to penalize Williams for all those walks.

JDPNYY
08-15-12, 08:12 PM
getting caught has cost him minimum $40 million on signing a multi year contract this off season.
he was making 6 this year , thats down to 4 now.
after taxes and agents fees , he might bank 2 for 2012.
with at least 3 kids and their mama's, he's crying for sure now.

he might get a one year 7 mil to prove himself for 2013.


what happened to the youtube video of him and the chick in the hotel room from a few years ago?

Cano is a free agent after next year,
amigo de la buena suerte

It's more like...

Doing PEDs gave him a chance to get a 40 to 50 million dollar contract. He had nothing to lose. Someone will sign him this offseason for what he was worth before his sudden change.

Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

awy
08-15-12, 08:12 PM
worth it

Ram Man
08-15-12, 08:23 PM
The phantom AB rule was around for a few years in the 50s, and was finally adopted for good in 1967.

Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps my first recollection of it potentially being a factor in a batting championship was in 1980.

NelsonMuntz
08-15-12, 08:40 PM
He really should have just pulled an Ortiz and acted like he has no idea how he could have tested positive.

Snatch Catch
08-15-12, 08:42 PM
Well, the positive test was around the ASB, so he and his lawyers were probably looking for a Braun like escape. He did appeal , so his manning up now puts him ahead of Dbags like Ortiz ( and most players ) but how much credit does he really deserve?

Considering the level of ridiculousness in caught players' public statements historically, Melky's response is startlingly refreshing.

Oh, and for the record, I half expect Cano to be next. Ever since he gained all that weight in the Dominican over one offseason several years ago I was suspicious, and his brother from another mother getting pinched now doesn't exactly assuage the fear.

Jax Teller
08-15-12, 08:44 PM
Considering the level of ridiculousness in caught players' public statements historically, Melky's response is startlingly refreshing.

Oh, and for the record, I half expect Cano to be next. Ever since he gained all that weight in the Dominican over one offseason several years ago I was suspicious, and his brother from another mother getting pinched now doesn't exactly assuage the fear.

You know it's going to happen right after the Yankees sign Cano to a huge contract.

Sixty one
08-15-12, 08:50 PM
Shocking and disappointing! Why in the world would he do this and think he could get away with it? Also, when did he start using and who was his supplier? I think major league baseball needs a full investigation on this one.

JL25and3
08-15-12, 08:54 PM
Shocking and disappointing! Why in the world would he do this and think he could get away with it? Also, when did he start using and who was his supplier? I think major league baseball needs a full investigation on this one.
What's particularly special about this one, as opposed to all the others?

False1
08-15-12, 09:30 PM
Obligatory avatar change :(

Melky, we hardly knew ye...Lol I like how PEDS was photoshopped Onto the box. Nice touch.

ieddyi
08-16-12, 05:06 AM
"Victor Conte thinks Melky Cabrera just isn’t very bright
Matthew Pouliot Aug 15, 2012, 4:35 PM EDT
21 Comments

BALCO founder Victor Conte still thinks it’s pretty easy to cheat in baseball. That Melky Cabrera got caught with enhanced testosterone levels just means he was doing it wrong.

The T/E test is easy to beat. Only the dumber than dumb get caught RT @Leroy1027 What are your thoughts on Melky's positive drug test?


Victor Conte (@VictorConte) August 15, 2012
Failed an IQ test. Easy to beat test RT @RMaq28: Thoughts? Per @MLB, Melky Cabrera suspended 50 games for testing positive for testosterone.


Victor Conte (@VictorCon"


http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/15/victor-conte-thinks-melky-cabrera-just-isnt-very-bright/

NelsonMuntz
08-16-12, 06:55 AM
"Victor Conte thinks Melky Cabrera just isn’t very bright
Matthew Pouliot Aug 15, 2012, 4:35 PM EDT
21 Comments

BALCO founder Victor Conte still thinks it’s pretty easy to cheat in baseball. That Melky Cabrera got caught with enhanced testosterone levels just means he was doing it wrong.

The T/E test is easy to beat. Only the dumber than dumb get caught RT @Leroy1027 What are your thoughts on Melky's positive drug test?


Victor Conte (@VictorConte) August 15, 2012
Failed an IQ test. Easy to beat test RT @RMaq28: Thoughts? Per @MLB, Melky Cabrera suspended 50 games for testing positive for testosterone.


Victor Conte (@VictorCon"


http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/15/victor-conte-thinks-melky-cabrera-just-isnt-very-bright/
Yep. The best cheaters are always a step ahead of the testing.

Yankee Fan in Boston
08-16-12, 06:58 AM
Yep. The best cheaters are always a step ahead of the testing.

Looking at his career statistics, it's pretty hard to believe he didn't get away with it for a year and a half as it is

bomb
08-16-12, 08:06 AM
I hope the Yankees go after Melky in the offseason. This article basically sums it up:

http://deadspin.com/5935216/did-performance+enhancing-drugs-actually-help-melky-cabrera

ajra21
08-16-12, 08:30 AM
Considering all the testing that goes on, players who take PEDs are just dumb. I did think, within a few minutes of hearing that Melky had tested positive, that buying low on him this offseason might be a good idea. But I'm unconvinced of this.

I remain confused as to how they allowed PEDs to be "ok" in baseball for such a long time. I knew in the late eighties that they were wrong but a bunch of grown men protected the users. Pathetic. Anyway, that is a discussion for another day.

awy
08-16-12, 08:32 AM
golden opportunity to buy low on melky. fans here will accept him and disregard roids. he will get that nowhere else

effdamets
08-16-12, 08:34 AM
I hope the Yankees go after Melky in the offseason. This article basically sums it up:

http://deadspin.com/5935216/did-performance+enhancing-drugs-actually-help-melky-cabrera
I hope you really don't believe that....
I don't want the Yankees to come within 100 light years of this guy in the off season.

4trainEddie
08-16-12, 08:43 AM
Klapisch has it right
the players and Girardi feel bad that he got caught.
not a single one gives a sheet about the integrity of the game
http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/Klapisch_Melky_Cabreras_suspension_shows_baseball_is_still_dirty.html

and dont forget Melky didnt hold a press conference and answer questions;
his statement was released by the player's union.
has Marvin Miller or Fehr via the union ever cared about the game and the fans?
and some people want Marvin Miller in the Hall of Fame;
the last time he was on the Michael Kay show, he vehemently denied steroids helped players.

ajra21
08-16-12, 08:54 AM
Klapisch has it right
the players and Girardi feel bad that he got caught.
not a single one gives a sheet about the integrity of the game
http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/Klapisch_Melky_Cabreras_suspension_shows_baseball_is_still_dirty.html

and dont forget Melky didnt hold a press conference and answer questions;
his statement was released by the player's union.
has Marvin Miller or Fehr via the union ever cared about the game and the fans?
and some people want Marvin Miller in the Hall of Fame;
the last time he was on the Michael Kay show, he vehemently denied steroids helped players.

If intelligence or integrity were required for entrance into the Hall of Fame, it would be a very empty place to visit.

JL25and3
08-16-12, 08:55 AM
Klapisch has it right
the players and Girardi feel bad that he got caught.
not a single one gives a sheet about the integrity of the game
http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/Klapisch_Melky_Cabreras_suspension_shows_baseball_is_still_dirty.html

and dont forget Melky didnt hold a press conference and answer questions;
his statement was released by the player's union.
has Marvin Miller or Fehr via the union ever cared about the game and the fans?
and some people want Marvin Miller in the Hall of Fame;
the last time he was on the Michael Kay show, he vehemently denied steroids helped players.What does Marvin Miller have to do with this? Perhaps you don't remember what it was Miller was fighting, and how successfully he did it. He is far and away the most important person in baseball history since Jackie Robinson, and it's a disgrace that he's not in the Hall of Fame.

JL25and3
08-16-12, 08:58 AM
Btw, this was my favorite line:


Manager Bruce Bochy broke the news to his team in a meeting about 90 minutes before the start of a 6-4 loss to the Washington Nationals.


"Melky, he was hurt by it," Bochy said. "It's obvious he was disappointed."

Hurt by what? Disappointed how? Was it somehow a surprise to him to learn that he'd been taking PEDs?

ajra21
08-16-12, 09:25 AM
Btw, this was my favorite line:

Hurt by what? Disappointed how? Was it somehow a surprise to him to learn that he'd been taking PEDs?

Yeah, laughed at this myself when I heard it.

I think some of these guys believe they will just get away with it. They get so much given to them, they think this is just another benefit. Of course, there are enty of hard working, dedicated players who wot take this stuff too.

BroadwayBomber55
08-16-12, 10:08 AM
Ken Rosenthal ‏<s>@</s>Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal) Cabrera takes responsibility in statement. "My positive test was the result of my use of a substance that I should not have used." <s>#</s>SFGiants (https://twitter.com/search/?src=hash&q=%23SFGiants)

The Anti-Ortiz.

You should also add the anti-Palmeiro too.

4bronxbombers
08-16-12, 10:09 AM
I hope you really don't believe that....
I don't want the Yankees to come within 100 light years of this guy in the off season.

Same. He'll be the old Melky once he's off the PEDs. No thanks - we don't need that....

jcarey
08-16-12, 11:33 AM
Btw, this was my favorite line:


Hurt by what? Disappointed how? Was it somehow a surprise to him to learn that he'd been taking PEDs?

Hurt monetarily; disappointed he got caught.

False1
08-16-12, 11:43 AM
You should also add the anti-Palmeiro too.Not impressed. It would be anti-Ortiz or anti-Palmeiro to not cheat. I prefer that cheaters fess up when caught, but at the end of the day what really matters is that they not cheat to begin with.

My one exception to this might be Giambi. He was using at a time when it was almost endorsed by the league and while he protected himself with his comments on the matter he basically acknowledged that he did use steroids. He was one of the first, was still an active player with lots to lose and was a stark contrast to just about everyone else.

2PhonesMaccabee
08-16-12, 06:15 PM
golden opportunity to buy low on melky. fans here will accept him and disregard roids. he will get that nowhere else
I agree, it's very low risk high reward situation.

teknetic
08-16-12, 06:17 PM
You know it's going to happen right after the Yankees sign Cano to a huge contract.

I'm sure they'll have some sort of clause in there.

Casey at the Bat
08-16-12, 06:48 PM
Not impressed. It would be anti-Ortiz or anti-Palmeiro to not cheat. I prefer that cheaters fess up when caught, but at the end of the day what really matters is that they not cheat to begin with.

My one exception to this might be Giambi. He was using at a time when it was almost endorsed by the league and while he protected himself with his comments on the matter he basically acknowledged that he did use steroids. He was one of the first, was still an active player with lots to lose and was a stark contrast to just about everyone else.

Giambi used for the same reasons that everyone else did, to gain an advantage. While I think his "admission" took much more courage than the cheaters who followed him, in the end, he was really no better than they were. If you give a pass to Giambi, you have to give a pass to Bonds, Palmiero, McGwire, etc.

NelsonMuntz
08-16-12, 08:38 PM
I hope you really don't believe that....
I don't want the Yankees to come within 100 light years of this guy in the off season.
Don't worry, they won't.

Hitman23
08-16-12, 09:56 PM
This helps me tremendously fantasy wise.

ieddyi
08-17-12, 10:34 AM
Giambi used for the same reasons that everyone else did, to gain an advantage. While I think his "admission" took much more courage than the cheaters who followed him, in the end, he was really no better than they were. If you give a pass to Giambi, you have to give a pass to Bonds, Palmiero, McGwire, etc.


His "admission" was also self serving. He was called to testify in the Bond trial. If he was found to have lied there, he would have gone to jail, so he didn't. When his testimony was leaked, he basically had no choice

Also heard Conti on ESPN today. He explained how easy it would be to cheat w/ testosterone. MLB only tests @ the ballpark. A player could wait till after the game- apply a testosterone cream and he would be OK even if he were tested the next day. Sounds like Melky should have hired a "consultant" to guide him through the process

effdamets
08-17-12, 10:39 AM
His "admission" was also self serving. He was called to testify in the Bond trial. If he was found to have lied there, he would have gone to jail, so he didn't. When his testimony was leaked, he basically had no choice

Also heard Conti on ESPN today. He explained how easy it would be to cheat w/ testosterone. MLB only tests @ the ballpark. A player could wait till after the game- apply a testosterone cream and he would be OK even if he were tested the next day. Sounds like Melky should have hired a "consultant" to guide him through the process
This doesn't make sense.
Testosterone levels stay elevated when someone is cycling. It's not like these players are on a regimen of vitamin C, excess gets flushed out of their bodies.

kan_t
08-17-12, 10:50 AM
golden opportunity to buy low on melky. fans here will accept him and disregard roids. he will get that nowhere else

Agreed.

YankeePride1967
08-17-12, 10:53 AM
I'm not even sure how I would phrase it but do those caught cheating deserve a bit of credit for admitting it rather than looking for excuses, yes maybe some. But when I'm pulled over for speeding me saying "yes officer, I was doing 90 in a 45" doesn't really help me much. He got caught, now he joins the line of cheaters. Some say he cost himself anywhere from $40-60 million by cheating, but I think it is a reasonable assumption that the only reason he would be in position for getting that kind of money, is the reason he is now serving 50 games for.

Art Vanderlay
08-17-12, 11:18 AM
Melky was caught during July. His first reaction was to file an appeal to try and beat the system. ONly when he lost his appeal did he acknowledge what was proven beyond a doubt. He gets zero credit from me.

YankeePride1967
08-17-12, 11:46 AM
Melky was caught during July. His first reaction was to file an appeal to try and beat the system. ONly when he lost his appeal did he acknowledge what was proven beyond a doubt. He gets zero credit from me.

I'm pretty close to this position myself. It's not like he really had much of a choice.

NelsonMuntz
08-17-12, 12:19 PM
I'm pretty close to this position myself. It's not like he really had much of a choice.
I generally find myself taking this position as well, however, one could argue that Melky would have been better off taking the Ortiz (et al) approach of feigning shock and acting incredulous about how he could have possibly failed a drug test. If nothing else it seems to appease a lot of fans and and some in the media.

RenoHightower
08-17-12, 12:40 PM
I don't really give a damn. These guys try to cheat because they aren't gifted enough naturally to get where they're trying to get. It's not like steroids do any good if you aren't working out a ton. All the hand-wringing and holier than thou sanctimony on here is making me sick. Judge not lest ye be judged, folks.

JL25and3
08-17-12, 01:02 PM
I don't really give a damn. These guys try to cheat because they aren't gifted enough naturally to get where they're trying to get. It's not like steroids do any good if you aren't working out a ton. All the hand-wringing and holier than thou sanctimony on here is making me sick. Judge not lest ye be judged, folks.
I'm certainly not sanctimonious about it. I think it makes perfect sense for Melky to juice and hope he can get away with it; it salvaged his career, at least for a couple of years.

However, I have no interest in the Yankees' re-signing him. Been there, done that. I was happy when they were able to unload him to Atlanta, and I don't want to take the chance that, without the juicing, he'll just turn out to be the same old Melky again.

YankeePride1967
08-17-12, 01:17 PM
I'm certainly not sanctimonious about it. I think it makes perfect sense for Melky to juice and hope he can get away with it; it salvaged his career, at least for a couple of years.

However, I have no interest in the Yankees' re-signing him. Been there, done that. I was happy when they were able to unload him to Atlanta, and I don't want to take the chance that, without the juicing, he'll just turn out to be the same old Melky again.

I don't think it's a case of judging either. I just don't see much of a difference between him and anyone else that used just because he admitted it. He'll serve his 50 games and then return the league as he should.

JL25and3
08-17-12, 01:23 PM
I don't think it's a case of judging either. I just don't see much of a difference between him and anyone else that used just because he admitted it. He'll serve his 50 games and then return the league as he should.
Oh, I agree, I'm not particularly impressed with his admitting it. The union not only dropped the grievance, they issued the confession on his behalf. That seems to me like he was so obviously and completely nailed that there was really no choice.

effdamets
08-17-12, 01:37 PM
I generally find myself taking this position as well, however, one could argue that Melky would have been better off taking the Ortiz (et al) approach of feigning shock and acting incredulous about how he could have possibly failed a drug test. If nothing else it seems to appease a lot of fans and and some in the media.

Wouldn't have worked for Melky. Mostly because the media would have associated him with the Yankees and wound up blowing it all out of proportion.
He's not the lovable Red Sock that broke the curse - so it woulda been a gigantic smearfest.

Yankee Fan in Boston
08-17-12, 01:39 PM
Wouldn't have worked for Melky. Mostly because the media would have associated him with the Yankees and wound up blowing it all out of proportion.
He's not the lovable Red Sock that broke the curse - so it woulda been a gigantic smearfest.

Eh, I'm just not sure people care anymore. It used to be a big deal when guys were found using -- hand-wringing, press conferences. Now it's a one day story.

effdamets
08-17-12, 02:01 PM
Eh, I'm just not sure people care anymore. It used to be a big deal when guys were found using -- hand-wringing, press conferences. Now it's a one day story.
..... unless it's a Yankee player.

Casey at the Bat
08-17-12, 02:10 PM
..... unless it's a Yankee player.

Who was the last Yankee player who tested positive?

montrealer
08-17-12, 03:05 PM
I'm certainly not sanctimonious about it. I think it makes perfect sense for Melky to juice and hope he can get away with it; it salvaged his career, at least for a couple of years.

However, I have no interest in the Yankees' re-signing him. Been there, done that. I was happy when they were able to unload him to Atlanta, and I don't want to take the chance that, without the juicing, he'll just turn out to be the same old Melky again.

He cheated to get 80 million.........now he'll only get 10 million.......he's a winner either way.....I just don't care anymore...........

False1
08-17-12, 04:33 PM
I don't really give a damn. These guys try to cheat because they aren't gifted enough naturally to get where they're trying to get. It's not like steroids do any good if you aren't working out a ton. All the hand-wringing and holier than thou sanctimony on here is making me sick. Judge not lest ye be judged, folks.Wait, what? I don't think anyone is condemning busted steroid users to the deepest levels of hell or anything. Is it sanctimonious to think that it's wrong and to factor that into their perception of a player as a fan? Where are all these sanctimonious posts you're talking about?

RenoHightower
08-17-12, 05:16 PM
Yes, I think posting about how much credit you give a guy for what he said about getting in trouble for using a drug to make himself better at his job is sanctimonious. A good number of the people on this board would almost certainly do the same if given the chance.

ArodEra
08-17-12, 05:17 PM
They should test Dustin Pedroia. What's the penalty for testing positive for estrogen?

:lol: Very good

False1
08-17-12, 05:19 PM
Yes, I think posting about how much credit you give a guy for what he said about getting in trouble for using a drug to make himself better at his job is sanctimonious. A good number of the people on this board would almost certainly do the same if given the chance.

Bold statement. How do you feel about insider trading? Is it sanctimonious to comment on that, or should we all just hold tongues because RenoHightower thinks we'd do it if given the chance?

RenoHightower
08-17-12, 05:26 PM
Bold statement. How do you feel about insider trading? Is it sanctimonious to comment on that, or should we all just hold tongues because RenoHightower thinks we'd do it if given the chance?

I think manipulating the stock market and making bad faith deals that rip people off is a little more serious than using steroids to get better at baseball, don't you?

JDPNYY
08-17-12, 05:36 PM
I wonder if Eddie Murray used Steroids and engaged in Insider Trading.


That would be like the Daily Double.

fredgmuggs
08-17-12, 05:41 PM
I wonder if Eddie Murray used Steroids and engaged in Insider Trading.


That would be like the Daily Double.

He still would have a ways to go to top Lenny Dykstra.

False1
08-17-12, 05:44 PM
I think manipulating the stock market and making bad faith deals that rip people off is a little more serious than using steroids to get better at baseball, don't you?You didn't say you thought steroids wasn't a big deal. You said those that commented on this were hypocrites that made you sick, because everyone else that had an opportunity to do this would. I think that is preposterous. I can think of lots of things I could do to give myself an unfair advantage at my job that I wouldn't do.

sousuffer
08-17-12, 06:08 PM
I think manipulating the stock market and making bad faith deals that rip people off is a little more serious than using steroids to get better at baseball, don't you?

I don't comment much, but people who are cheating are ripping off people who are still riding the bus in AAA but want to do it the honest way and are denied a roster spot in the big leagues because the cheater got the edge.

I also equate it to the Posada hall of fame talk (although this is less serious since you are not denying someone a roster spot and a chance at their livelihood). If Ivan Rodriguez and Mike Piazza weren't boosting their credentials (if they indeed were) via suspicious means, Posadas career (assuming he's clean) would be far and away superior to any catcher of his era and he'd be a no doubt hall of famer as the best catcher in the league for a baseball generation rather than a borderline case. Of course I haven't even mentioned the pitchers Posada faced that may have been juicing.

BronxYanks45
08-17-12, 08:03 PM
Who was the last Yankee player who tested positive?

no major league yankees have tested positive but Hector Noesi I think was one of the most recent in the minors too. Everyone seems to forget. Also Sergio Mitre did but he did when he was on in the minors as well

Casey at the Bat
08-18-12, 12:17 AM
no major league yankees have tested positive but Hector Noesi I think was one of the most recent in the minors too. Everyone seems to forget. Also Sergio Mitre did but he did when he was on in the minors as well

The last big name Yankee was probably AROD, and he was more than a 1-day story because, well, he's AROD. No one else has been more than a 1 day story. Even Braun would have died down if he had just accepted the punishment instead of denying it, and winning. There are very few players today who would get more than a one day story. Two of them play for the Yankees, Jeter and Mo. I think everyone else would get a one-day pass from the press.

lolwut
08-18-12, 07:31 AM
Force mandatory performance enhancing drugs on everyone. I want to see some super baseball.

BronxYanks45
08-18-12, 12:49 PM
The last big name Yankee was probably AROD, and he was more than a 1-day story because, well, he's AROD. No one else has been more than a 1 day story. Even Braun would have died down if he had just accepted the punishment instead of denying it, and winning. There are very few players today who would get more than a one day story. Two of them play for the Yankees, Jeter and Mo. I think everyone else would get a one-day pass from the press.

technically no, ARod's name was released from the Mitchell Report in 2009 that he tested positive in 2003 when he was not a Yankee. He admitted to taking PEDs from 2001-2003

CommerceComet
08-18-12, 07:12 PM
So does the NL forfeit home field advantage now?Obviously, Melky was a big part of that win but it was 8-0. A Melky-less NL would have still won handily.

CommerceComet
08-18-12, 08:06 PM
After all this time, I don't get why they think they are going to get away with it.How exactly do we know that some players aren't beating the tests? There is almost as much economic incentive for unscrupulous pharmacists to develop means to beat PED testing as there is for athletes to use PEDs (in almost every sport).

oneill96
08-18-12, 08:13 PM
I swear every time you hear about a player taking something it just adds a couple years onto
'the Steroid Era.' Which is such just great publicity for the game of baseball itself.

Casey at the Bat
08-18-12, 10:52 PM
technically no, ARod's name was released from the Mitchell Report in 2009 that he tested positive in 2003 when he was not a Yankee. He admitted to taking PEDs from 2001-2003

The whole point of my mentioning AROD as the last yankee to be caught was to argue that yankees who get caught these days really don't fare any worse than members of another team who get caught. You know, the good ole "OMG, if it was a Yankee, we'd never hear the end of it!" But, as you so kindly pointed out, AROD wasn't even a yankee. So even less Yankees were vilified in the press than I though. Silly me.

Hitman23
08-19-12, 12:28 AM
I don't really give a damn. These guys try to cheat because they aren't gifted enough naturally to get where they're trying to get. It's not like steroids do any good if you aren't working out a ton. All the hand-wringing and holier than thou sanctimony on here is making me sick. Judge not lest ye be judged, folks.I personally don't have any issues with PEDs. But I know I'm in the minority.

ieddyi
08-19-12, 07:37 AM
OOPS- so much for credibility for coming clean-


"In a bizarre attempt to avoid a 50-game drug suspension, San Francisco Giants star Melky Cabrera created a fictitious website and a nonexistent product designed to prove he inadvertently took the banned substance that caused a positive test under Major League Baseball’s drug program.

But instead of exonerating Cabrera of steroid use, the Internet stunt trapped him in a web of lies. Amid the information-gathering phase of his doping case last month, his cover story unraveled quickly, and what might have been a simple suspension has attracted further attention from federal investigators and MLB, the Daily News has learned.
....

The scheme began unfolding in July as Cabrera and his representatives scrambled to explain a spike in the former Yankee’s testosterone levels. Cabrera associate Juan Nunez, described by the player’s agents, Seth and Sam Levinson, as a “paid consultant” of their firm but not an “employee,” is alleged to have paid $10,000 to acquire the phony website. The idea, apparently, was to lay a trail of digital breadcrumbs suggesting Cabrera had ordered a supplement that ended up causing the positive test, and to rely on a clause in the collectively bargained drug program that allows a player who has tested positive to attempt to prove he ingested a banned substance through no fault of his own.

“There was a product they said caused this positive,” one source familiar with the case said of Cabrera’s scheme. “Baseball figured out the ruse pretty quickly.”"


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/exclusive-daily-news-uncovers-bizarre-plot-melky-cabrera-fake-website-duck-drug-suspension-article-1.1139623

JDPNYY
08-19-12, 08:05 AM
Yeah but after the failed attempt at redirection with the fake website and fictitious product, he totally admitted he cheated.

So, it's looking like this taking of the PED caused him $40,010,000.00 to $50,010,000.00 that he wouldn't have gotten if he didn't ever take the PED.

Samuelson
08-19-12, 09:30 AM
Yeah but after the failed attempt at redirection with the fake website and fictitious product, he totally admitted he cheated.

So, it's looking like this taking of the PED caused him $40,010,000.00 to $50,010,000.00 that he wouldn't have gotten if he didn't ever take the PED.

Yeah, he chose to be "honest" once he was caught lying/creating a ruse with a fictitious website and was being investigated by the feds. What an honorable guy!

BobLoblaw
08-19-12, 09:35 AM
OOPS- so much for credibility for coming clean-


[i]"In a bizarre attempt to avoid a 50-game drug suspension, San Francisco Giants star Melky Cabrera created a fictitious website and a nonexistent product designed to prove he inadvertently took the banned substance that caused a positive test under Major League Baseball’s drug program.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/exclusive-daily-news-uncovers-bizarre-plot-melky-cabrera-fake-website-duck-drug-suspension-article-1.1139623

lol wat

awy
08-19-12, 09:43 AM
rofl.

JDPNYY
08-19-12, 09:51 AM
Yeah, he chose to be "honest" once he was caught lying/creating a ruse with a fictitious website and was being investigated by the feds. What an honorable guy!

At some point you consider coming clean. Melky deserves a lot of props for knowing when to throw in the towel.

nnysiny
08-19-12, 10:33 AM
wow, Melky really isnt that bright

geoffman
08-19-12, 10:55 AM
wow, Melky really isnt that bright

Nor his agents who probably played a much larger role in this than we know. After all they would stand to profit a ton if he were to sign a mega contract.

Samuelson
08-19-12, 11:39 AM
At some point you consider coming clean. Melky deserves a lot of props for knowing when to throw in the towel.

Yeah, and he chose to only after all other avenues were exhausted. Why does that deserve props?

JDPNYY
08-19-12, 11:46 AM
Yeah, and he chose to only after all other avenues were exhausted. Why does that deserve props?

Because he admitted it. He didn't try to say he drank a tainted milkshake or something.

gregzzy22
08-19-12, 11:56 AM
Because he admitted it. He didn't try to say he drank a tainted milkshake or something.

Are you kidding me? Did you read the post on this page about Melky's reps creating a website for a fake supplement? This guy literally tried everything in the book. The scary part to me is he tried to take a page out of Brauns according to an article. Yikes

JDPNYY
08-19-12, 11:59 AM
Are you kidding me? Did you read the post on this page about Melky's reps creating a website for a fake supplement? This guy literally tried everything in the book. The scary part to me is he tried to take a page out of Brauns according to an article. Yikes
It makes sense to try to get away with it (up to a point). Melky reached that point and admitted he took the PEDs. Others have reached that point and continued to lie. Props to Melky.

Yankees1962
08-19-12, 11:59 AM
I just hope there isn't a trail back to any current Yankees. That's right, I'm talking about Cano and Arod.

Yankees1962
08-19-12, 12:00 PM
It makes sense to try to get away with it (up to a point). Melky reached that point and admitted he took the PEDs. Others have reached that point and continued to lie. Props to Melky.
Your definition of "sense" is a little different than mine.

JDPNYY
08-19-12, 12:04 PM
Your definition of "sense" is a little different than mine.

I see your point and it only makes sense from the standpoint that he took the PEDs in the first place. As anyone who has done so, he didn't want to be caught. Once he was caught it made "sense" to try to get away with it. As I've said, he was at the point where he had no further recourse. He was suspended beyond appeal. Either make up some lie at that point or come clean. He came clean. Props.

Big_E
08-19-12, 12:18 PM
Melky should join Pete Rose on the banned list.

JL25and3
08-19-12, 12:25 PM
Melky should join Pete Rose on the banned list.
Why?.

Yankees1962
08-19-12, 12:59 PM
I see your point and it only makes sense from the standpoint that he took the PEDs in the first place. As anyone who has done so, he didn't want to be caught. Once he was caught it made "sense" to try to get away with it. As I've said, he was at the point where he had no further recourse. He was suspended beyond appeal. Either make up some lie at that point or come clean. He came clean. Props.
No, after getting caught with a positive test, he lied by having that bogus site and saying he got the drugs from that site, when he found out that wasn't going to fly then he came clean.

1. Got caught with a positive test.

2. Attempted to lie about why that stuff was in his system.

3. After realizing that attempt has failed finally came clean and issued his public admission.

If he skipped #2 and went straight to 3 then I would agree with you.

geoffman
08-19-12, 01:14 PM
I just hope there isn't a trail back to any current Yankees. That's right, I'm talking about Cano and Arod.

This is my fear after Arod working out with him and trying to get us to sign him in the offseason. His friendship with Cano will also have some writers salivating.

Yankees1962
08-19-12, 01:18 PM
This is my fear after Arod working out with him and trying to get us to sign him in the offseason. His friendship with Cano will also have some writers salivating.
You can bet your last dollar that baseball writers are working OT trying to make some kind of connection to the Yankees. The sharks are in the water.

Big_E
08-19-12, 01:28 PM
Why?.

Not only did he get caught with illegal substances in his body, garnering a 50-game suspension, but he and his people set up a fake website to try to cover up the drug use.

That should be conspiracy to defraud, and as far as the integrity of the game, should warrant a lifetime ban.

from cbs sports:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19828767/report-melky-cabreras-scheme-to-avoid-suspension



Now, instead of getting ready to sign the biggest contract of his career, he's being investigated by the FDA, Major League Baseball and possibly, at some point, even the DEA.

Ban his sorry ass.

montrealer
08-19-12, 03:37 PM
Oh Melky.........what a tangled web we weave......:lol:......him and his posse are on the same level as the AppleDumpling Gang.......

montrealer
08-19-12, 03:40 PM
Not only did he get caught with illegal substances in his body, garnering a 50-game suspension, but he and his people set up a fake website to try to cover up the drug use.

That should be conspiracy to defraud, and as far as the integrity of the game, should warrant a lifetime ban.

from cbs sports:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19828767/report-melky-cabreras-scheme-to-avoid-suspension



Ban his sorry ass.

There are worse offenders already in the HOF.............hopefully I hope he somehow salvage what will be left of his career....

-tz
08-19-12, 03:59 PM
Yeah but after the failed attempt at redirection with the fake website and fictitious product, he totally admitted he cheated.

So, it's looking like this taking of the PED cost him $40,010,000.00 to $50,010,000.00 that he wouldn't have gotten if he didn't ever take the PED.http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif

JDPNYY
08-19-12, 04:13 PM
http://www.clinteastwood.org/forums/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif

?????

Eldee5
08-19-12, 05:23 PM
Don't you just love how each of the articles refers to him as a "former Yankee"? Former Brave? No. Former Royal? No. I know that we should be used to this by now but it still ticks me off.

BronxYanks45
08-19-12, 09:37 PM
You know I agree with Kirk Gibson who said earlier in the week that the system needs to be stricter. Caught once, banned for 1 whole season (162 games, postseason included), Caught twice lifetime ban from MLB. That will put an end to PED use in the majors.

Problem is the players union will never agree to this

JL25and3
08-19-12, 09:52 PM
You know I agree with Kirk Gibson who said earlier in the week that the system needs to be stricter. Caught once, banned for 1 whole season (162 games, postseason included), Caught twice lifetime ban from MLB. That will put an end to PED use in the majors.

Problem is the players union will never agree to this
I don't think the owners would particularly want that, either.

GordonGecko
08-19-12, 10:36 PM
lol wat

+1 ahahahaha

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/64763/2012/01/LOLWHUT.jpg

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 06:32 AM
No, after getting caught with a positive test, he lied by having that bogus site and saying he got the drugs from that site, when he found out that wasn't going to fly then he came clean.

1. Got caught with a positive test.

Now its time for pull out all stops to make sure this doesn't go public. Millions of Dollars still at stake.


2. Attempted to lie about why that stuff was in his system.

He realizes that he did it, there is no chance this thing is getting thwarted due to a technicality. Not the same money still at stake at this point, but perhaps he can salvage 15 or 20 million here. Spin away. Get your boys to make a website, nothing to lose at this point. Grasp for that straw.



3. After realizing that attempt has failed finally came clean and issued his public admission.

If he skipped #2 and went straight to 3 then I would agree with you.

All avenues exhausted. He could still stick with the ruse (see Bonds, Ortiz et al). No at this point he comes clean, admits he took the stuff. You need to give him some credit here.



When you are sitting around at a bar or at a pals house or something and you play that little game of what would you do for a million bucks you would do things far more terrible than what Melky did. And that's for a million bucks.

Melky did these things for 40 to 50 million dollars. He got caught, tried everything his little brain could think of to get out of it, when push came to shove... He made the admission.

That's more than a lot of people have done.

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 07:13 AM
In any event, this story keeps getting more interesting and is helping to take the heat off of the continuing epic collapse (since early September of 2011) of the Red Sox Organization.

Snatch Catch
08-20-12, 08:14 AM
When you are sitting around at a bar or at a pals house or something and you play that little game of what would you do for a million bucks you would do things far more terrible than what Melky did. And that's for a million bucks.


C'mon. You should know by now that messageboard posters have a significantly higher level of morality and would never do anything against their strident code of ethics.

HerbieLee20
08-20-12, 08:58 AM
When you are sitting around at a bar or at a pals house or something and you play that little game of what would you do for a million bucks you would do things far more terrible than what Melky did. And that's for a million bucks.

Melky did these things for 40 to 50 million dollars. He got caught, tried everything his little brain could think of to get out of it, when push came to shove... He made the admission.

That's more than a lot of people have done.

Good point. Some people go so far as contributing to what is known as ABC Prime Time TV :eek: And they never even have to apologise for it!

Sixty one
08-20-12, 09:47 AM
You know I agree with Kirk Gibson who said earlier in the week that the system needs to be stricter. Caught once, banned for 1 whole season (162 games, postseason included), Caught twice lifetime ban from MLB. That will put an end to PED use in the majors.

Problem is the players union will never agree to this

This story is getting sadder all the time. Either Melky is just plain dumb or he is being advised by idiots. Gibson is right! Extend the penalty and get the union to get with it.

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 10:38 AM
Penalize teams. Take away wins when a player is caught.

MoVaughnEatsAlot
08-20-12, 10:54 AM
Penalize teams. Take away wins when a player is caught.

I think they should look into taking our 2009 championship away, it could very well be tainted now.

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 10:58 AM
I think they should look into taking our 2009 championship away, it could very well be tainted now.

You can't do this retroactively, nor even this year. It should be something that is put in place for the future.

Teams should also be allowed to void contracts for those who test positive.

False1
08-20-12, 11:00 AM
Teams should also be allowed to void contracts for those who test positive.Player's union would never go for this, but agreed that this could help curb usage in a meaningful way.

RenoHightower
08-20-12, 11:12 AM
Teams should also be allowed to void contracts for those who test positive.

This is the first good idea I've heard on the subject.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
08-20-12, 11:14 AM
Or you could hurt the teams by making a player suspended for PED use be counted against their 25-man roster.

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 11:36 AM
Or you could hurt the teams by making a player suspended for PED use be counted against their 25-man roster.

Taking away wins or making a player be used against a 25 man roster would directly hurt teams. This is good. It would make teams shy away from cheaters and would give them incentive to not want current players to cheat. This would help cut down on the action from a Team angle.

Voiding player contracts for failed drug tests would help cut down on cheaters from the player angle.

RenoHightower
08-20-12, 01:59 PM
How are teams to police this?

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 02:05 PM
How are teams to police this?

Teams know.

Plus peer pressure to not muck up a season will have an affect.

Teams will not sign players who are cheating.



Something has to be done. This system is lame.





Unless you want to legalize the stuff.

RenoHightower
08-20-12, 03:29 PM
Teams know.

This is pretty speculative.


Plus peer pressure to not muck up a season will have an affect.

This doesn't work for college players taking gifts.


Teams will not sign players who are cheating.

So now it becomes "get caught cheating and your career is over." That's a bit draconian, from my perspective.


Something has to be done. This system is lame.

I liked your other suggestion. I don't remember what it was, but I think it was good.


Unless you want to legalize the stuff.

I'm getting there.

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 03:38 PM
This is pretty speculative.

Please.



This doesn't work for college players taking gifts.
Baseball players have bats.




So now it becomes "get caught cheating and your career is over." That's a bit draconian, from my perspective.
Teams will be wary of cheaters because they won't want the penalties.




I liked your other suggestion. I don't remember what it was, but I think it was good.

That was to enable MLB Teams to void contracts for positive tests.


All these things would need to work together to put an end to the cheating. You need to give the teams incentive to not want cheaters and you need to hurt the player's wallet to make him want to stop.

What is the penalty for Melky? He loses 7 weeks pay. What was the incentive for cheating? $40+ million.

With my suggestions he loses everything if he cheats. It's not worth it.



I'm getting there.

Yeah, I'm not sure if they really want the players to stop cheating.

2JAY
08-20-12, 04:07 PM
I couldn't be more disappointed with this mess that Melky created. I do not know what is worse, using the banned substance or trying to cover it up. And to think I was holding out hope that the Yankees would try to re-sign Melky next year.

ajra21
08-20-12, 07:18 PM
You can't do this retroactively, nor even this year. It should be something that is put in place for the future.

Teams should also be allowed to void contracts for those who test positive.

Agreed.


Player's union would never go for this, but agreed that this could help curb usage in a meaningful way.

Just one more reason why sports union are so utterly pathetic. The MLBPA appall me.

rajah
08-20-12, 07:58 PM
People who blame the union for PEDS do not know what they are talking about. The union has fought for fair and certain procedures to protect players' individual rights and reputations from false positives and rumors. The union did not create the culture of PEDS that developed in the 90s and that everyone, including MLB, ownership, and self righteous reporters, knew existed and indulged to create more home runs.

The union is responsive to the players. If the players want to be tougher on their peers than the current three-step progressive discipline, then the union will support going to two steps and out.

rajah
08-20-12, 08:04 PM
I disagree with those who state that what Melky did is not as bad as what others did in earlier years using PEDS. I think it is much worse to cheat after MLB and the union have set clear rules that express a new culture. I think almost all players want to control PEDS now. That was not the case when Bonds apparently started using them after he saw how much acclaim Sosa and McGuire got when anyone with eyes and a brain realized what was happening.

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 08:07 PM
I disagree with those who state that what Melky did is not as bad as what others did in earlier years using PEDS. I think it is much worse to cheat after MLB and the union have set clear rules that express a new culture. I think almost all players want to control PEDS now. That was not the case when Bonds apparently started using them after he saw how much acclaim Sosa and McGuire got when anyone with eyes and a brain realized what was happening.

No one said that.

rajah
08-20-12, 08:46 PM
There are worse offenders already in the HOF.................

You are wrong

This poster said it and so have others to me. In my opinion, there is no one in the HOF, or even who is eligible for the HOF, who was a worse offender than Melky, regardless of how much that HOFer or potential HOFer used PEDS before MLB made clear they were no longer to be indulged.

JDPNYY
08-20-12, 08:49 PM
You are wrong

This poster said it and so have others to me. In my opinion, there is no one in the HOF, or even who is eligible for the HOF, who was a worse offender than Melky, regardless of how much that HOFer or potential HOFer used PEDS before MLB made clear they were no longer to be indulged.

He's Canadian. He doesn't count.

RenoHightower
08-20-12, 09:05 PM
You are wrong

This poster said it and so have others to me. In my opinion, there is no one in the HOF, or even who is eligible for the HOF, who was a worse offender than Melky, regardless of how much that HOFer or potential HOFer used PEDS before MLB made clear they were no longer to be indulged.

What about avowed racist/violent sociopath Ty Cobb? Melky Cabrera is worse than that?

Snatch Catch
08-20-12, 09:13 PM
In all honesty, the worst aspect of Melky's lying and cheating, and the thing that makes him so utterly deplorable, is that he has brought a certain Mr. McGuire back to the messageboard forefront.

Blazer
08-20-12, 11:13 PM
Is there a chance Melky will be blackballed?

rajah
08-21-12, 05:33 AM
What about avowed racist/violent sociopath Ty Cobb? Melky Cabrera is worse than that?

I never said Melky was a worse human being than anyone in the HOF. I am in no position to judge that, and either by the way, are you, despite your quickness to condemn others for condemning PED users.

What I said is that Melky's PED use is worse than the possible PED use of anyone in the HOF because the latter PED use was not during a period when it was against a clear policy accepted by both ownership and the players' union. I think I am the one not being judgmental about the prior culture that spawned the known prominent users, who in my opinion also should be in the HOF.

You may not agree with MLB's current PED policy, but that policy now is clear. It is supported by the players in part because they understand the negative effects of these drugs and do not want to be at a disadvantage if they do not subject themselves to those effects. Some of them also may not want to encourage their use by youth. There is a reason for the rule and it should be observed. Players who cheat and get an advantage now should be punished in accord with the rules.

rajah
08-21-12, 05:35 AM
Is there a chance Melky will be blackballed?

No; the union would not allow this. It would be collusion and a violation of the CBA.

Snatch Catch
08-21-12, 06:23 AM
I never said Melky was a worse human being than anyone in the HOF. I am in no position to judge that, and either by the way, are you, despite your quickness to condemn others for condemning PED users.

What I said is that Melky's PED use is worse than the possible PED use of anyone in the HOF because the latter PED use was not during a period when it was against a clear policy accepted by both ownership and the players' union. I think I am the one not being judgmental about the prior culture that spawned the known prominent users, who in my opinion also should be in the HOF.

You may not agree with MLB's current PED policy, but that policy now is clear. It is supported by the players in part because they understand the negative effects of these drugs and do not want to be at a disadvantage if they do not subject themselves to those effects. Some of them also may not want to encourage their use by youth. There is a reason for the rule and it should be observed. Players who cheat and get an advantage now should be punished in accord with the rules.

You sound like a line-towing MLBPA rep back in 2008 or so. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if you were close with someone that represents the MLBPA.

RenoHightower
08-21-12, 08:14 AM
I never said Melky was a worse human being than anyone in the HOF. I am in no position to judge that, and either by the way, are you, despite your quickness to condemn others for condemning PED users.

That was my whole point. I'm not judging players as people for using steroids. I am judging Ty Cobb as a person, but that's because his racism and violent outbursts are a matter of public record. I think most of the people on here are being sanctimonious about PED users because they enjoy being sanctimonious and telling everyone how much better they are than the evil baseball cheaters.

rajah
08-21-12, 09:39 AM
You sound like a line-towing MLBPA rep back in 2008 or so. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if you were close with someone that represents the MLBPA.

No; I am not "close" with the MLBPA or anyone who works there. Just because you disagree with my point of view does not justify you claiming that I am "towing" (I assume you mean "toeing")) a line. I take this point of view based on my expertise in labor relations and how democratic unons like the MLBPA operate. The MLBPA is strong and effective in protection of the interests of its members through maintaining solidarity and it has done that by being responsive to its members.

I also happen to be a lawyer who believes strongly in neutral process and adherence to clear rules. I think process and the constraint on the power of ownership provided by the union protects players from being arbitrarily treated and made scape goats. Melky should not be "blackballed". His serious violation of the rules should be punished in accordance with the rules. There were not rules or process for any PED users in the HOF. There also was no clear consensus against PED use during their playing days.

I wonder where you are coming from, however. You seem to have some particular antagonism toward McGuire. You also seem to have some unexplained animosity toward the union. I suspect if you were a ML player, you would not have that animosity.

Ram Man
08-21-12, 09:44 AM
I am judging Ty Cobb as a person, but that's because his racism and violent outbursts are a matter of public record. I think most of the people on here are being sanctimonious about PED users because they enjoy being sanctimonious and telling everyone how much better they are than the evil baseball cheaters.

So you're applying 2012 standards to a man that played 100 years ago? And that isn't sanctimonious?

YankeePride1967
08-21-12, 09:47 AM
That was my whole point. I'm not judging players as people for using steroids. I am judging Ty Cobb as a person, but that's because his racism and violent outbursts are a matter of public record. I think most of the people on here are being sanctimonious about PED users because they enjoy being sanctimonious and telling everyone how much better they are than the evil baseball cheaters.

It's not a matter of being sanctimonious or "telling how much better we are" that's up to the misinterpratation of the reader. I certainly don't think of Melky as being a "bad person" or anything of the sort. Basically he got caught doing something that by agreement of both the owners and players is against the rules and now he's paying the price. Whether he admitted it or not to me isn't relevant. The 50 game penalty was mutually agreed upon, he will serve it and at the end he will return, as he should be allowed to.

rajah
08-21-12, 09:55 AM
That was my whole point. I'm not judging players as people for using steroids. I am judging Ty Cobb as a person, but that's because his racism and violent outbursts are a matter of public record. I think most of the people on here are being sanctimonious about PED users because they enjoy being sanctimonious and telling everyone how much better they are than the evil baseball cheaters.

Given his admission, isn't Melky's use of PEDS also now a matter of public record? I agree that a lot of the condemnation of PED users, especially in the press, is excessive and worthy of being called "sanctimonius." But I think I and others do have as much right to condemn Melky's cheating as we have to condemn Ty Cobb's racism and nastiness, even if the latter is more morally reprehensible.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
08-21-12, 10:03 AM
Is there a chance Melky will be blackballed?

I doubt the MLB owners want to deal with a collusion accusation. Someone will take a chance on him.

Yankee Tripper
08-21-12, 10:12 AM
I don't think some folks are familiar with JDPNYY's full body of work on this site.

RenoHightower
08-21-12, 10:23 AM
So you're applying 2012 standards to a man that played 100 years ago? And that isn't sanctimonious?

2012 standards of what? Not assaulting people?

RenoHightower
08-21-12, 10:32 AM
It's not a matter of being sanctimonious or "telling how much better we are" that's up to the misinterpratation of the reader. I certainly don't think of Melky as being a "bad person" or anything of the sort. Basically he got caught doing something that by agreement of both the owners and players is against the rules and now he's paying the price. Whether he admitted it or not to me isn't relevant. The 50 game penalty was mutually agreed upon, he will serve it and at the end he will return, as he should be allowed to.

And that's fine. There's a rule in place, and we move on with our lives when he serves the appropriate punishment. But people on here are calling for a year-long ban, or for the Giants to hold him out of playoffs games for which he would be eligible. I've read other places that people want him deported. It's a bit much.

JDPNYY
08-21-12, 10:34 AM
And that's fine. There's a rule in place, and we move on with our lives when he serves the appropriate punishment. But people on here are calling for a year-long ban, or for the Giants to hold him out of playoffs games for which he would be eligible. I've read other places that people want him deported. It's a bit much.

Can he just be deported during the 50 game suspension? Then he could come back. I'm just trying to keep him from starting websites over the next month and a half.

RenoHightower
08-21-12, 10:37 AM
Can he just be deported during the 50 game suspension? Then he could come back. I'm just trying to keep him from starting websites over the next month and a half.

I think this is an IT question.

JDPNYY
08-21-12, 10:38 AM
I think this is an IT question.

OK, I'll open a ticket.

Big_E
08-21-12, 10:51 AM
The 50 game penalty was mutually agreed upon, he will serve it and at the end he will return, as he should be allowed to.

Are you saying he shouldn't be punished for his role ("if any") in the cover-up?

YankeePride1967
08-21-12, 10:53 AM
Are you saying he shouldn't be punished for his role ("if any") in the cover-up?

I think that has to be determined. If it is determined that he was behind it, then if they tack on some more games, so be it, but I don't think it's worthy of a lifetime ban.