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61in61
08-08-01, 05:58 PM
I would like to see a move made to retire #3 for all time much like #42. With all due respect to Jackie Robinson and all he went through, I feel that Babe Ruth had quite a hand in bringing baseball back after the Black Sox scandal almost put an end to this wonderful game. I've heard it said again and again by baseball people, both writers and players and officials, if not for The Babe, we might not have baseball to enjoy today. I recently heard that Marvin Miller should be voted into the Hall for his contributions and his impact on the game. Well, The Babe had quite an impact and he is already in the Hall but I think that baseball should take this one step further and honor his memory with this gesture.

ClemensGal
08-08-01, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by 61in61
I would like to see a move made to retire #3 for all time much like #42. With all due respect to Jackie Robinson and all he went through, I feel that Babe Ruth had quite a hand in bringing baseball back after the Black Sox scandal almost put an end to this wonderful game. I've heard it said again and again by baseball people, both writers and players and officials, if not for The Babe, we might not have baseball to enjoy today. I recently heard that Marvin Miller should be voted into the Hall for his contributions and his impact on the game. Well, The Babe had quite an impact and he is already in the Hall but I think that baseball should take this one step further and honor his memory with this gesture.

#42 is retired for all-time? that means no one can wear it? but doesn't rivera wear #42? clear it up for me, 61!

CalYankeeFan
08-08-01, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by ClemensGal


#42 is retired for all-time? that means no one can wear it? but doesn't rivera wear #42? clear it up for me, 61!

When 42 was retired a few years back, the players who were wearing the number at the time were allowed to keep it. If (heaven forbid) Mariano should play for somebody else, he cannot wear 42, and no other Yankee will ever wear 42.

61in61
08-08-01, 06:09 PM
#42 is retired for all time. It is grandfathered to the players who currently wear it. When the last current player wearing 42 retires that would be it. No one will ever wear the number again. Mo Vaughn also wears 42.

Michaels07
08-08-01, 06:13 PM
It`s over done. It`s time to start un-retiring the numbers.It`s a new century,a new time.If not in the future we may see if we are still alive 4a 5b 7c etc.:) :P

ClemensGal
08-08-01, 06:16 PM
thanks for explaining it, 61 and calyankeefan! i'd never heard of it before!

Jimbo
08-08-01, 06:48 PM
I have stated this before..and I will be glad to state it again...The Bambino's number should be retired from all of baseball..from Little League right up to the majors...Nuff Said.

bagger015
08-08-01, 07:27 PM
:NY: No I don't think so. Retiring numbers is not what it used to be. Special players only need apply. :NY: :cool:

Butnud
08-08-01, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by ClemensGal


#42 is retired for all-time? that means no one can wear it? but doesn't rivera wear #42? clear it up for me, 61!

#3 Should have a movie I agree
#42 is retired and should also have soemthing to it like #61

42 is reitred but as for the current players wearing it, they can wear it but after they retire that number is done. Nobody can wear it except for those who are current.

bamtino
08-08-01, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Jimbo
I have stated this before..and I will be glad to state it again...The Bambino's number should be retired from all of baseball..from Little League right up to the majors...Nuff Said.

I agree 100%!

DW Fan
08-08-01, 11:53 PM
Yes of course #3 should be retired.:NY:
I hate seeing #3 on nim-rods back, it's a disgrace! :mad:

CalifYanksFan
08-09-01, 12:26 AM
I have to respectfully disagree. As much as I love Babe Ruth and what he meant to the Yankees and baseball he never went through what Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby went through. The Babe was the right color and Jackie and Larry were obviously the wrong color. The hate mail, teammates who wouldn't play with them, racist fans and ownership was more than most mortal men would bear. I think that Jackie Robinson's number was retired strictly to honor him as being the first person of color to play MLB. For that alone and the things he went through for all the Hank Aarons, Joe Morgans, Bob Gibsons, Elston Howards, Bernie Williams, etc. his number should be retired in every park in America.

http://www.nytimes.com/specials/baseball/robinson-photo.8.jpg
Jackie Robinson writes his name on a 1950 Brooklyn Dodger contract as Branch Rickey, president of the club, indicates the dotted line with his cigar. The contract, which was reportedly for $35,000, made Robinson the highest paid Dodger.


http://www.nytimes.com/specials/baseball/robinson-photo.12.jpg
Ford Frick, president of the National League, presents a silver bat and the John Hillerich award to Jackie Robinson for winning the National League Batting Championship in 1949.

SkooterPhil#10
08-09-01, 12:46 AM
Yea, then Gay-Rod would have to get a different number!:bad:

wileedog
08-09-01, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by CalifYanksFan
I have to respectfully disagree. As much as I love Babe Ruth and what he meant to the Yankees and baseball he never went through what Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby went through. The Babe was the right color and Jackie and Larry were obviously the wrong color. The hate mail, teammates who wouldn't play with them, racist fans and ownership was more than most mortal men would bear. I think that Jackie Robinson's number was retired strictly to honor him as being the first person of color to play MLB. For that alone and the things he went through for all the Hank Aarons, Joe Morgans, Bob Gibsons, Elston Howards, Bernie Williams, etc. his number should be retired in every park in America.

Jackie Robinson writes his name on a 1950 Brooklyn Dodger contract as Branch Rickey, president of the club, indicates the dotted line with his cigar. The contract, which was reportedly for $35,000, made Robinson the highest paid Dodger.


Ford Frick, president of the National League, presents a silver bat and the John Hillerich award to Jackie Robinson for winning the National League Batting Championship in 1949.

Amen. Great, great post.

Either way, the whole game of retiring numbers is a zero-sum game. Somewhere down the line, we're going to run out.

I think the number thing is overated - but every professional sports team should have a monument park - a place where parents can take their kids to learn about the past. Granted most teams parks will be somewhat smaller than the Yanks, but you get the idea.

Oh, and think about this - one day God willing we will all be describing to our grandkids the greatness of Bernie, Derek, Jorge, Paulie, Tino, et al. I don't think a retired number will have quite the same impact as describing first-hand Bernie's incredible grace in CF, Derek's inside-out swing, Tino's golden glove (and clutch post-season bat) or Paulie's indomitable spirit.

Gripes about this season aside, we should all consider ourselves very, very lucky to be watching baseball history unfolding before our very eyes.

MLBfan
08-09-01, 02:45 AM
Your grandkids won't care about todays players, they will have their own, just as good or maybe better.

As for numbers, they will probably be using the binary system by then.

Baseball will always be played, nothing will or can stop it from always being the greatest game in the world.

It will live despite the owners and players trying to kill it.

Mantle 7
08-09-01, 07:12 AM
While I admire Jackie Robinson, both as a person and a ballplayer, I personally do not believe, by the virture of his being the first black ballplayer, that his number be retired from ALL of baseball.
That lone accomplishment pales in comparison to what Babe Ruth did.
Robinson would not have been given the chance to even play baseball, anywhere, if not for the Babe saving the game.
Intergration into baseball was inevitable, what Ruth did, was not. Anyone could have been baseball's first black ballplayer, Satchel Page, Josh Gibson, Larry Doby, etal. But only one man could have been Babe Ruth! Robinson was simply in the right place at the right time. I can appreciate what he was put through by the other ballplyers of that time. That is a testament to his intestinal fortitude, a quality had by many others, Roger Maris comes to mind. He was, without question, a good ballplayer. There are/were many ballplayers with greater skills and greater accomplishments than his and their numbers aren't even retired by their respective ballclubs. It is my contention that only ONE number should be retired from ALL of baseball, The Babe's, and The Babe's alone.

Mantle 7
08-09-01, 07:34 AM
THE ONE AND ONLY, #3

Billy #1
08-09-01, 08:09 AM
While I'd love to see the Babe's #3 retired for all-time, and I think Jackie's accomplishments are wonderful, I think the idea of singling out a player, primarily because of his race is wrong. What about the accomplishment of the other great, non-white players?

I was at the game when Ed Figeroa became the 1st native born Puerto Rican to win 20 games. It was awsome, the crowd went wild. Should his #31 be retired for all time too? What about the great Dominicans? Oh no, does that mean we will have to some day honor, ( for all time Ichiro), for doing something to help HIS people?

Yea, I know that to many, Jackie Robinson's accomplishment seems more important, but try explaining that to one of the other nationalities who has a player that broke some other barrier. Where and when does it all stop? Retiring a number for all-time should mean that when ever you see it, you only think of that player. I wouldn't put it past MLB to do something stupid like only allowing "authorized" Jackie Robinson jerseys to be made after all the other #42's retire, so you can only think of him when you see the number.

Enough all ready with all this retiring numbers crap. To me #3 will always mean the Babe, but to sombody else it's another great player. Sorry Jackie but #42 means Mo. With all this crap over teams and caps in the Hall of Fame, we're setting ourselves up for something really stupid.

cman
08-09-01, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by wileedog


Gripes about this season aside, we should all consider ourselves very, very lucky to be watching baseball history unfolding before our very eyes.

Agreed...we are lucky.

The Bambino's number retired from all of baseball? I say yes...but I think the stories about some of his " character flaws " will prevent that from becoming a reality. Besides, what really counts is he is a Yankee legend.

Jacky had to put up more then just good numbers...he had to break a stereotype, endure all kinds of hate ( even death theats I beleive ) He had to struggle ..all the while putting up such fantasic numbers...he derserves the honor bestowed upon him IMHO.
:NY:

cman
08-09-01, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by Billy #1
While I'd love to see the Babe's #3 retired for all-time, and I think Jackie's accomplishments are wonderful, I think the idea of singling out a player, primarily because of his race is wrong. What about the accomplishment of the other great, non-white players?

I was at the game when Ed Figeroa became the 1st native born Puerto Rican to win 20 games. It was awsome, the crowd went wild. Should his #31 be retired for all time too? What about the great Dominicans? Oh no, does that mean we will have to some day honor, ( for all time Ichiro), for doing something to help HIS people?

Yea, I know that to many, Jackie Robinson's accomplishment seems more important, but try explaining that to one of the other nationalities who has a player that broke some other barrier. Where and when does it all stop? Retiring a number for all-time should mean that when ever you see it, you only think of that player. I wouldn't put it past MLB to do something stupid like only allowing "authorized" Jackie Robinson jerseys to be made after all the other #42's retire, so you can only think of him when you see the number.

Enough all ready with all this retiring numbers crap. To me #3 will always mean the Babe, but to sombody else it's another great player. Sorry Jackie but #42 means Mo. With all this crap over teams and caps in the Hall of Fame, we're setting ourselves up for something really stupid.

Robinson stands out in my mind due to the climate of America during his time regarding race..the Armed forces were segregated..a black man and a white man drank from different water fountians...a bunch of really ignorant jacka$$ wore dumb looking sheets over there heads and rode around on horses doing bad sh$$...

This was the enviroment he had to play in....As he was the first, those that follow him had it easier...

But race aside, he really was a great player, which is more important!

Nome
08-09-01, 08:52 AM
Haven't we overdone this retiring of numbers thing? I agree with Michaels07 on this one. Babe was the greatest player baseball has ever seen. No more needs to be said or done.

It's time we eliminated ALL numbers and used the players name on the back.

I love my Yankees and it's history but we and the other teams have overdone the numbers thing.

Butnud
08-09-01, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Nome
Haven't we overdone this retiring of numbers thing? I agree with Michaels07 on this one. Babe was the greatest player baseball has ever seen. No more needs to be said or done.

It's time we eliminated ALL numbers and used the players name on the back.

I love my Yankees and it's history but we and the other teams have overdone the numbers thing.

If we get rid of the numbers and put names on the back then we are getting rid of the old way of things and bringing in thew new.

I DON"T THINK SO!

toots
08-09-01, 03:20 PM
I, too respectfully disagree. While Babe Ruth is the epitome of baseball, he is synonymous with the Yankees. His number should remain retired by the Yankees alone. I do not believe in the validity of a universal retirement of a particular individual, regardless of their acheivemnet to the sport as a whole. That is what the HOF is for. I personally like it when teams honor their greats by retiring their numbers, but like some, I also feel it has gotten out of hand. IMO, I don't think Dave Winfield and some other recently retired Yankees, really meritted their numbers retired when a plaque could have sufficed. Some of these guys are not in the same league as Mickey Mantle, Joe D., the Babe, et. al. Save the retiring for the truly great and who have some longevity with the team and can be identified as Yankee history . As for other players on other teams wearing these numbers I really don't mind. For some it's their way of paying homage to those who were their heroes and I think that's great.

CalifYanksFan
08-09-01, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Mantle 7
While I admire Jackie Robinson, both as a person and a ballplayer, I personally do not believe, by the virture of his being the first black ballplayer, that his number be retired from ALL of baseball.
That lone accomplishment pales in comparison to what Babe Ruth did.
Robinson would not have been given the chance to even play baseball, anywhere, if not for the Babe saving the game.
Intergration into baseball was inevitable, what Ruth did, was not. Anyone could have been baseball's first black ballplayer, Satchel Page, Josh Gibson, Larry Doby, etal. But only one man could have been Babe Ruth! Robinson was simply in the right place at the right time. I can appreciate what he was put through by the other ballplyers of that time. That is a testament to his intestinal fortitude, a quality had by many others, Roger Maris comes to mind. He was, without question, a good ballplayer. There are/were many ballplayers with greater skills and greater accomplishments than his and their numbers aren't even retired by their respective ballclubs. It is my contention that only ONE number should be retired from ALL of baseball, The Babe's, and The Babe's alone.

Mantle what your talking about is records. Babe saved the game for "white America." Look at the old time photos when Babe played. How many black faces do you see? You say anyone could have been the first black to break the color barrier. Well anyone wasn't. Jackie Robinson was. Babe never faced the ridicule and prejudice that Robinson and Doby did. The only way Robinson was accepted on the Dodgers in the beginning was when Pee Wee Reese put his arm around him and told everybody on the team Robinson was staying and if anyone didn't like it they could take a hike. If Branch Rickey hadn't had the guts to sign Robinson who knows how long it would have been before integration would have happened.

If Babe Ruth had stayed in Boston and accomplished all he accomplished with the Yankees would you still be hollaring for his number to be retired? Think with your head and not your heart before you answer. Babe Ruth is the greatest player to ever to play the game. However, he never had to be accepted into baseball's fraternity. Jackie Robinson did. And I think his decision to accept Mr. Rickey's offer ultimately shortened his life.

And in case you're wondering and haven't seen my photo here abouts on the forums. I'm white.

KLJ
08-10-01, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Mantle 7
While I admire Jackie Robinson, both as a person and a ballplayer, I personally do not believe, by the virture of his being the first black ballplayer, that his number be retired from ALL of baseball.
That lone accomplishment pales in comparison to what Babe Ruth did.
Robinson would not have been given the chance to even play baseball, anywhere, if not for the Babe saving the game.
Intergration into baseball was inevitable, what Ruth did, was not. Anyone could have been baseball's first black ballplayer, Satchel Page, Josh Gibson, Larry Doby, etal. But only one man could have been Babe Ruth! Robinson was simply in the right place at the right time. I can appreciate what he was put through by the other ballplyers of that time. That is a testament to his intestinal fortitude, a quality had by many others, Roger Maris comes to mind. He was, without question, a good ballplayer. There are/were many ballplayers with greater skills and greater accomplishments than his and their numbers aren't even retired by their respective ballclubs. It is my contention that only ONE number should be retired from ALL of baseball, The Babe's, and The Babe's alone.
it is a rare day indeed that i am in complete agreement with mantle..

i will take it even further.. the fact that robinson has his number retired and ruth doesn't is a complete disgrace.. it's the powers to be in baseball bending over backwards for all the wrong reasons.. i will save what i really want to say about this matter for another place and another time..