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Rice14
08-19-10, 01:33 PM
A federal grand jury will indict Roger Clemens on charges of making false statements to Congress about his use of performance-enhancing drugs, The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/sports/baseball/20clemens.html?_r=1) reported, citing two sources briefed on the case.
An announcement of the indictment was expected in the near future, according to the report.







http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5476761

hardrain
08-19-10, 01:52 PM
Roger, Roger...you delusional fool...

hardrain
08-19-10, 01:53 PM
and to think Duquette was right all along.

Yankees13
08-19-10, 01:55 PM
Should have just admitted it and moved on.

C4v
08-19-10, 02:07 PM
Seriously, what the hell was he thinking? Who was he trying to fool? He should've just admitted it like andy, arod and giambi did and the whole thing wouldve went away. Now hes about to go to jail. What a idiot

35Knucklecurve
08-19-10, 02:08 PM
I forget which MLB analyst it was, but he stated back when this whole thing hit the fan was that the difference between Clemens and all the others who've either been associated with or admitted using PED's is that Clemens actually believes he did nothing wrong.....simply because, he is Roger Clemens. I don't know if I'd take it that far, but I do think that Clemens thought he could get away with lying to Congress because he is Roger Clemens.

Steve Dalkowski
08-19-10, 02:20 PM
Anyone have a list of the Congressmen who kissed Clemens' ass on the day of his testimony, apologized to him, etc?

Snatch Catch
08-19-10, 02:26 PM
I forget which MLB analyst it was, but he stated back when this whole thing hit the fan was that the difference between Clemens and all the others who've either been associated with or admitted using PED's is that Clemens actually believes he did nothing wrong.....simply because, he is Roger Clemens. I don't know if I'd take it that far, but I do think that Clemens thought he could get away with lying to Congress because he is Roger Clemens.

Many baseball players felt this way. It was an entitlement that was fostered by the way the MLBPA protected them from testing, and the Commissioner's Office looked the other way.

Rice14
08-19-10, 03:15 PM
I think Clemens knew that perjury charges are very difficult to prove and decided to go for it. By suing McNamee, lying to congress, refuting Andy Pettitte, etc. I think Clemens is trying to win in the only court he really cares about-the court of public opinion.

Let's face it, it's much easier for guys like Giambi and Pettitte to admit it because they were not the same caliber player that Clemens was. Before the Mitchell report, people debated whether Clemens was the best right handed pitcher of all time, for a guy with his ego, it's got to be crushing that now he's just thought of as a cheater. A-Rod is not a bad comparison to make to Clemens, because A-Rod too is considered by some to be GOAT, but A-Rod actually flunked a test. That's a little harder to deny (Insert Ortiz joke here).Further, A-Rod may have been able to minimize his usage when he came clean.(He could have, not saying he definitely did). Clemens had a guy laying the whole thing out, he couldn't claim "I did it once" or "Just for two years" or "I didn't know what it was." For Clemens to corroborate McNamee would mean admitting usage for at least seven or eight years. That's a good chunk of his career. The best comp may be Bonds, and Clemens is headed down the exact same path.

All he could do was deny, deny, deny...

Dave Visbeck
08-19-10, 03:49 PM
Anyone have a list of the Congressmen who kissed Clemens' ass on the day of his testimony, apologized to him, etc?


http://cartoonistgroup.com/cards/view.php?id=fdc0d78cf029396678e3d422f5f730a8

DontHateOnNumber2
08-19-10, 04:01 PM
It's a shame former Red Sox ace Roger Clemens had to stoop to lying to the government. He could've avoided all of this just by thinking.

BronxYanks45
08-19-10, 04:03 PM
ugh, this will get ugly, should have just admitted and moved on

nnysiny
08-19-10, 04:07 PM
hes so stubborn that he might just bury himself

sweet_lou_14
08-19-10, 05:06 PM
A-Rod is not a bad comparison to make to Clemens, because A-Rod too is considered by some to be GOAT, but A-Rod actually flunked a test.

I think the only comp for Clemens, really, is Bonds.

Bronson'sCornrows
08-19-10, 05:07 PM
This whole thing makes me genuinely happy. Watching him dig himself deeper and deeper... throwing his wife and close friends under the bus... lying through his teeth...

Holy crap, it's just soooo entertaining to watch someone you so thoroughly dislike to not only make a gigantic idiot of himself, but to prove on a NATIONAL PLATFORM, why everyone should dislike him in the first place. Man, this just feels sooooo good. :)

fredgmuggs
08-19-10, 05:08 PM
Roger, Roger...you delusional fool...
It's not a lie if you've convinced yourself that it is not. Sometimes I really do believe Roger has a skewed viewed of reality.

Yankees1962
08-19-10, 05:11 PM
Just remember it's very difficult to prove perjury beyond a shadow of the doubt.

ToneinTO
08-19-10, 05:49 PM
Damn. Well its not like we didn't know this was coming. However now that it finally has, its hard to believe.

ny
08-19-10, 06:15 PM
Holy crap, it's just soooo entertaining to watch someone you so thoroughly dislike to not only make a gigantic idiot of himself, but to prove on a NATIONAL PLATFORM, why everyone should dislike him in the first place. Man, this just feels sooooo good. :)

I feel the same way about Ortiz and his BS denials. ;)

Blazer
08-19-10, 06:31 PM
I want to be the first to volunteer to look after that cute little lady of his while he's in then pen.

flymick24
08-19-10, 06:49 PM
icey hot on the nads will quickly become the new prison fad

Steve Dalkowski
08-19-10, 07:23 PM
Just remember it's very difficult to prove perjury beyond a shadow of the doubt.If they indicted him, they've got the case. He's toast.

Bronson'sCornrows
08-19-10, 07:24 PM
I feel the same way about Ortiz and his BS denials. ;)

No, you don't. Ortiz told a stupid lie to some newspaper reporters, stuck with it, and made himself look like an idiot. Fair enough.

Clemens told a stupid lie in front of Congress, ON NATIONAL TELEVISION, threw his own wife and several close, personal friends to the lions in a desperate bid to save his own skin, and is now being indicted for perjury.

I'm sure the Ortiz situation was exciting for you, but this is like comparing an RBI single that cuts the deficit to 1-run to a walkoff grand slam in the playoffs. Completely different levels of awesome.

JDPNYY
08-19-10, 07:30 PM
I don't think Roger is lying.

ThePinStripes
08-19-10, 07:42 PM
I'd love to be the prosecutor on this case.

C4v
08-19-10, 07:43 PM
The thing that truly makes this funny is HE was the one who demanded that meeting with congress. Despite there being overwhelming evidence against him, he actually had the nerve to get those people together so he could lie to their faces and now he's about to go to jail for it. The arrogance and foolishness is just astounding. I hope they throw the book at this jackass

roblyo33
08-19-10, 07:47 PM
I despised Roger as a Red Sock, hated him as a Blue Jay, was embarassed by him as a Yankee, cared less about him as an Astro and will enjoy him as an inmate. He represents everything that is bad about celebrity, IMO.

ArodEra
08-19-10, 08:21 PM
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4bronxbombers
08-19-10, 09:13 PM
I feel the same way about Ortiz and his BS denials. ;)

Yup. I wish he would get called on the carpet.

ny
08-19-10, 09:18 PM
Clemens told a stupid lie in front of Congress, ON NATIONAL TELEVISION

Meh big deal its not like he's the president or anything like that, personally I enjoyed the big fellas time in the Bronx, thanks for memories Rocket :gulp:

JL25and3
08-19-10, 09:42 PM
Just remember it's very difficult to prove perjury beyond a shadow of the doubt.Reasonable doubt, not a shadow of a doubt.

They also only have to prove that one thing he said was a lie. In this case, they have other sworn testimony that directly contradicts Clemens's statements. If they've got evidence to support that testimony, that could amount to a pretty strong case.

roblyo33
08-19-10, 09:47 PM
Reasonable doubt, not a shadow of a doubt.

They also only have to prove that one thing he said was a lie. In this case, they have other sworn testimony that directly contradicts Clemens's statements. If they've got evidence to support that testimony, that could amount to a pretty strong case.


One can only hope.

False1
08-20-10, 12:50 AM
Take Clemens out of it, I still think the fact that any of these guys - Giambi, McGwire, Palmiero, etc. - HAD to testify in front of Congress is an absolute fricking joke.

35Knucklecurve
08-20-10, 08:29 AM
The thing that truly makes this funny is HE was the one who demanded that meeting with congress. Despite there being overwhelming evidence against him, he actually had the nerve to get those people together so he could lie to their faces and now he's about to go to jail for it. The arrogance and foolishness is just astounding. I hope they throw the book at this jackass
From today's Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/sports/baseball/20partisan.html?th&emc=th



Some lawmakers said they were inclined to give Clemens the benefit of the doubt, noting that his reputation outshone that of McNamee, an admitted steroid dealer. And Clemens and his team clearly wagered that his fame would work in his favor — the week before the hearing, Clemens worked the halls of Congress, posing for photographs with members of the committee investigating him.

But that bravado also rubbed some the wrong way. “Sometimes fame brings an arrogance with it,” said Bruce Braley, a Democrat from Iowa, adding, “They were convinced that the hearing was a chance to clear the air and tell his side of the story, and I think the problem is in an atmosphere like that, that the truth does tend to come out.”

Mark Souder, a Republican member of the committee who resigned from Congress in May after he acknowledged having an extramarital affair, said he read Clemens’s tour of Congressional offices as “I’m trying to use my fame to kind of bowl over you stupid Congressmen.” Clemens, Souder added, failed to follow a basic rule for public figures who are caught up in scandal. “When somebody confronts you, lying doesn’t work,” he said.
I always thought that Clemens made a huge mistake (in addition to all the others) by trying to use his fame to blind members of Congress before the heaing. If I'm innocent, I certainly am not going to "bribe" my prosecutor(s) with a steak dinner days before I am to go on trial. I don't need to......if I'm not guilty. That just further solidifies the fact that Clemens truly believes his mere presence alone is enough to sway anyone.

mentalgidget
08-20-10, 08:30 AM
Anyone else hear Rusty Hardin yesterday? His defense boils down to this:
Clemens must be innocent because he's still denying it even though he's facing jail time.

JL25and3
08-20-10, 08:41 AM
Anyone else hear Rusty Hardin yesterday? His defense boils down to this:
Clemens must be innocent because he's still denying it even though he's facing jail time.
So every convict in the country really is innocent.

mentalgidget
08-20-10, 08:46 AM
So every convict in the country really is innocent.
They must be super-innocent if they're still saying so even when they're IN jail.

Seriously though, this is the best this guy could think of?

montrealer
08-20-10, 09:07 AM
I wonder which hat he`ll want to wear in jail?

JL25and3
08-20-10, 09:09 AM
I wonder which hat he`ll want to wear in jail?Jacques wins thread, hands down.

Meecham4ever
08-20-10, 09:42 AM
It's a shame former Red Sox ace Roger Clemens had to stoop to lying to the government. He could've avoided all of this just by thinking.

He insisted that he wanted to go in the HOF as a Yankee, but now, thankfully, he'll never get the chance.
ESPN, of course,makes this a Yankee story, pointing out that McNamee was a Yankee trainer, and interviewing Posada, Berkman and Pettite for the article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5476761

mjdlight
08-20-10, 11:44 AM
Take Clemens out of it, I still think the fact that any of these guys - Giambi, McGwire, Palmiero, etc. - HAD to testify in front of Congress is an absolute fricking joke.
Clemens wasn't subpoenaed by Congress, he came and testified of his own volition. He probably thought that by flatly denying it under oath, he could clear his name forever. He didn't quite account for McNamee (the blue dress of his scenario). Oops.

ojo
08-20-10, 12:18 PM
i'm no lawyer, but how is this not malpractice?

if you conscioniably understand that the tack a client chooses is the absolute WRONG one, aren't you compelled to step aside?

ojo
08-20-10, 12:19 PM
No, you don't. Ortiz told a stupid lie to some newspaper reporters, stuck with it, and made himself look like an idiot. Fair enough.

Clemens told a stupid lie in front of Congress, ON NATIONAL TELEVISION, threw his own wife and several close, personal friends to the lions in a desperate bid to save his own skin, and is now being indicted for perjury.

I'm sure the Ortiz situation was exciting for you, but this is like comparing an RBI single that cuts the deficit to 1-run to a walkoff grand slam in the playoffs. Completely different levels of awesome.

if you're completely honest, that is only because baseball and those that report on the sport CHOSE to give ortiz a pass. presumably because they didn't have the temerity to call him on his own bold lies. probably for fear of alienating the witty bitty defenseless people who speak Spanish and don't know what big, bad steroids are.

ojo
08-20-10, 12:25 PM
lastly, what's worse...selling on your fame, or hiding behind a language 'barrier' as the players association was all too willing to rush to his defense?

nnysiny
08-20-10, 12:42 PM
i'm no lawyer, but how is this not malpractice?

if you conscioniably understand that the tack a client chooses is the absolute WRONG one, aren't you compelled to step aside?
if youre referring to Brian McNamee, im pretty sure he has immunity as part of his cooperation with the Feds

TheoShmeo
08-20-10, 12:44 PM
i'm no lawyer, but how is this not malpractice?

if you conscioniably understand that the tack a client chooses is the absolute WRONG one, aren't you compelled to step aside?
No. The lawyer's obligation under these circumstances is to give his client his full advice and let the client make judgment calls.

Also, as much as it's obvious to us that Clemens was lying throughout, Hardin -- unless he has access to some super duper truth serum -- likely never had definitive knowledge that Clemens was making it all up. My million mile away take is that Clemens believes his own lies.

Last, are you really surprised that the media goes easier on guys that they like?

ojo
08-20-10, 12:50 PM
No. The lawyer's obligation under these circumstances is to give his client his full advice and let the client make judgment calls.

Also, as much as it's obvious to us that Clemens was lying throughout, Hardin -- unless he has access to some super duper truth serum -- likely never had definitive knowledge that Clemens was making it all up. My million mile away take is that Clemens believes his own lies.

Last, are you really surprised that the media goes easier on guys that they like?

so hardin looks at all the sworn testimony, looks back to clemens and just goes with his gut that says Clemens is innocent?

wouldn't he have had to imbibe the truth serum to see the truth in Clemens' story?

as for Ortiz...i was really playing devils' advocate, but it's not so much the press (though they played a part) as it was MLB and the PA rushing to his aid making sure he didn't have to handle a presser himself. the press just played along...(and really, Ortiz' situation plays better off of how Arod was treated)..

ZIM 2002
08-20-10, 12:54 PM
I feel sorry for Pettitte, who the NYTimes story basically says was the reason they were able to indict Clemens!

35Knucklecurve
08-20-10, 01:08 PM
No. The lawyer's obligation under these circumstances is to give his client his full advice and let the client make judgment calls.

Also, as much as it's obvious to us that Clemens was lying throughout, Hardin -- unless he has access to some super duper truth serum -- likely never had definitive knowledge that Clemens was making it all up. My million mile away take is that Clemens believes his own lies.

Last, are you really surprised that the media goes easier on guys that they like?
This is the point I was trying to get across - Clemens, unlike Sosa, Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro or any of the others - is in such a state of denial that he thinks once this trial gets underway, he will be exhonerated of any wrong-doing. "They will believe me because I'm The Rocket - Roger Clemens....one of the greatest pitchers in history." The others lied partly because MLB let them get away with it and looked the other way for so many years. They also knew they were lying and just praying they could talk their way out of it. (Palmeiro's performance was up there with Clinton's).

Yes - the media, and fans for that matter, tend to let players they like off the hook more easily if they like them. Telling the truth doesn't hurt either. I think that if Clemens had taken page out of Andy's book, or A-Rod or Giambi, people would accept the fact that he cheated an move on. However, then he wouldn't be Roger Clemens - the guy who was given up for dead and miraculously rose from the ashes soley by "working his butt off".

TheoShmeo
08-20-10, 01:36 PM
so hardin looks at all the sworn testimony, looks back to clemens and just goes with his gut that says Clemens is innocent?

wouldn't he have had to imbibe the truth serum to see the truth in Clemens' story?

as for Ortiz...i was really playing devils' advocate, but it's not so much the press (though they played a part) as it was MLB and the PA rushing to his aid making sure he didn't have to handle a presser himself. the press just played along...(and really, Ortiz' situation plays better off of how Arod was treated)..
It's not Hardin's job to play jury and assess Clemens' guilt.

Regardless of what Hardin thinks he knows, he needs to give Clemens the best legal advice he can, lay out all the options, tell him what he thinks the likely outcomes are and let his client make decisions. Hardin can and should tell Clemens what he thinks Roger should do but, in the end, Clemens makes the calls.

If Hardin was 100% convinced that Clemens was going to go down in flames, he might have an obligation to resign or effectively lie down in front of the train tracks. But life is rarely that black and white.

Whether it's the press, MLB or the PA, it's just a fact of life that certain people get treated differently than others. My take as a fan is that Ortiz is one of the more well liked players and that some of the other players who have been caught up in the PEDs mess just are not as popular.

I know that A-Rod was treated more harshly than Ortiz but I think it's ironic that Peter Gammons -- the same guy who gets bashed repeatedly for being a Sox toadie -- did the first "interview" with A-Rod post being outed and it's hard to imagine even Michael Kay going easier on Rodriguez than Gammons was.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
08-20-10, 01:53 PM
He could go to jail for a "long, long time."

:-hide-:

Hitman23
08-20-10, 02:12 PM
I hope he doesn't go to jail. He made a stupid decision if he lied. But I heard this morning he could face 30 years. That is just insane. I'm not condoning what he did, if he did it, but the punishment does not fit the crime.

nhyankeefan
08-20-10, 02:16 PM
I hope he doesn't go to jail. He made a stupid decision if he lied. But I heard this morning he could face 30 years. That is just insane. I'm not condoning what he did, if he did it, but the punishment does not fit the crime.

To get the full 30 years he'd have to be convicted on all six counts and get the max penalty for each count. Considering he's a first time offender odds are that wouldn't happen.

Normally I think someone in this situation would come to their senses and just plea bargain their way to probation or something like that. But I can't see Roger doing that.

4bronxbombers
08-20-10, 02:17 PM
I agree...30 years? That's ludicrous. Look at some other jerks that did much worse things than that and are either out already or spent much less time. :doh:

Hitman23
08-20-10, 02:22 PM
To get the full 30 years he'd have to be convicted on all six counts and get the max penalty for each count. Considering he's a first time offender odds are that wouldn't happen.

Normally I think someone in this situation would come to their senses and just plea bargain their way to probation or something like that. But I can't see Roger doing that.Oh the story I heard made it seem that it was kind of expected if he's found guilty.

Honestly, I don't think he deserves a minute of jail time.

effdamets
08-20-10, 02:56 PM
I'd like to know how much time the congress-people, that are still wasting time and tax payer money on steroids in sports, are facing. After all, aren't they stealing from the public? I didn't think my tax dollars were for sorting out PED takers and non-PED takers in sports. I thought those dollars were for a worthy cause for something like.... I don't know... fixing the f---- economy? a$$munches

The whole thing gets me angry...

BTW - whatever happened with the Bonds perjury case? (shows how much I really give a rat spit)

Steve Dalkowski
08-20-10, 03:05 PM
Oh the story I heard made it seem that it was kind of expected if he's found guilty.

Honestly, I don't think he deserves a minute of jail time.Perjury is a pretty serious offense. The justice system functions in large part due to the credibility of sworn testimony. If there's no punnishment attached to disobeying that crucial aspect of the system, how does it hold up?

You can argue the severity of his punnishment, but it's pretty important that perjury carries repercussions.

flymick24
08-20-10, 03:12 PM
he'll probably get a few months

NYYDragoon
08-20-10, 03:39 PM
Perjury is a pretty serious offense. The justice system functions in large part due to the credibility of sworn testimony. If there's no punnishment attached to disobeying that crucial aspect of the system, how does it hold up?

You can argue the severity of his punnishment, but it's pretty important that perjury carries repercussions.^^This.

JL25and3
08-20-10, 03:43 PM
Clemens wasn't subpoenaed by Congress, he came and testified of his own volition. He probably thought that by flatly denying it under oath, he could clear his name forever. He didn't quite account for McNamee (the blue dress of his scenario). Oops.I think the biggest miscalculation wasn't his failure to account for McNamee, it was his failure to account for Pettitte. If it were just Clemens' word v. McNamee's, it might have been different.

ieddyi
08-20-10, 04:28 PM
I'd like to know how much time the congress-people, that are still wasting time and tax payer money on steroids in sports, are facing. After all, aren't they stealing from the public? I didn't think my tax dollars were for sorting out PED takers and non-PED takers in sports. I thought those dollars were for a worthy cause for something like.... I don't know... fixing the f---- economy? a$$munches

The whole thing gets me angry...

BTW - whatever happened with the Bonds perjury case? (shows how much I really give a rat spit)

Now the same guy who spent millions ( and failing ) going after Bonds is going after Lance Armstrong ( who I believe doped ) and cycling.....

It's not like cycling is more than a fringe sport ( and I ride ). Lance is just a large target and the guy ( Novitsky? ) has gotta be an attention whore. Someone higher up needs to rein him in and stop wasting time and $$$

Ram Man
08-20-10, 04:55 PM
Roger Clemens = Martha Stewart

JL25and3
08-20-10, 07:06 PM
Roger Clemens = Martha StewartNope. Making false statements =/= perjury.

Norge
08-20-10, 07:20 PM
He's so screwed.

Ram Man
08-20-10, 10:37 PM
Nope. Making false statements =/= perjury.

I was referring to the likely sentence although thinking about it, Clemens would be very lucky to only have to serve five months. Perhaps "Roger Clemens = Mike Tyson" would be more appropriate.

mjdlight
08-20-10, 11:00 PM
I think the biggest miscalculation wasn't his failure to account for McNamee, it was his failure to account for Pettitte. If it were just Clemens' word v. McNamee's, it might have been different.
Good point...he was banking on his BFF status with Pettitte.

snarkerella
08-21-10, 01:46 AM
I think the biggest miscalculation wasn't his failure to account for McNamee, it was his failure to account for Pettitte. If it were just Clemens' word v. McNamee's, it might have been different.

Supposedly Pettitte was a major part of this whole thing because if it was just Clemens vs. McNamee, they couldn't do much with it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5479748

nnysiny
08-21-10, 08:00 AM
Clemens rejected a plea deal which would involve no jail time (per ESPN ticker), but would include admitting guilt. hes done.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5480622

False1
08-21-10, 01:07 PM
Clemens wasn't subpoenaed by Congress, he came and testified of his own volition. He probably thought that by flatly denying it under oath, he could clear his name forever. He didn't quite account for McNamee (the blue dress of his scenario). Oops.Ok, so turn it around. Congress has openings for people to come schedule themselves in to clear their names? Baseball players and steroids? I got accused of cheating on a math test in the 5th grade. Can I use Congress to clear my name?

Bottom line is Congress should have never been talking to baseball players about steroids. Utterly ridiculous.

awy
08-21-10, 01:58 PM
friends in high places? not likely

still, why the F is congress even involved. why?

roblyo33
08-21-10, 04:36 PM
I'm not a big proponent of Congress being involved in sports but, drug abuse is a major issue in society and when blowhards like Clemens promote themselves as "work ethic" super hero, role models,and lie to the public and Congress, I think something should be done. Baseball is in a unique position being exempt from anti-trust laws (thanks to Congress) and, therefore, puts them under more scrutiny.

mjdlight
08-21-10, 11:04 PM
Baseball is in a unique position being exempt from anti-trust laws (thanks to Congress) and, therefore, puts them under more scrutiny.
This...MLB operates as a state protected monopoly. As such, the state can legitimately exercise a unique degree of oversight.

awy
08-22-10, 12:08 PM
that doesn't exactly answer the question here, since that legal monopoly is itself frivolous.

Yanks1976
08-22-10, 12:18 PM
Perjury is a pretty serious offense. The justice system functions in large part due to the credibility of sworn testimony. If there's no punnishment attached to disobeying that crucial aspect of the system, how does it hold up?

You can argue the severity of his punnishment, but it's pretty important that perjury carries repercussions.

Exactly. This isn't about the roids or the HGH. This is about the perjury.

Eldee5
08-22-10, 12:34 PM
I couldn't care less about this from the Clemens point of view. My only concern with all of this is how much involvement Andy Pettitte will have to have with the case should he decide to return to the Yankees in 2011. He'd have to be a witness for the prosecution, no?

Sharona1975
08-22-10, 12:39 PM
I wonder if Roger will rethink taking a deal if Barry Bonds is convicted next spring.

BroadwayBomber55
08-22-10, 03:41 PM
Sorry Roger Clemens, but you're not going to be inducted in the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

The rise and fall of Roger Clemens.

He embarrassed himself throughout all this.

False1
08-22-10, 10:15 PM
This...MLB operates as a state protected monopoly. As such, the state can legitimately exercise a unique degree of oversight."Can", but it's a ridiculous waste of resources. There's a lot of things that can be done, not all of them are smart.

aeromac76
08-23-10, 12:21 PM
He has no one to blame but himself..
You don't lie to the government, they will, if they want, get you.
Clemens is a high profile name and when the government suspected he lied to them, he had to know they'd work to get him..

The guys who admitted use are just about forgotten in the scheme of things.
Giambi continued his career, Pettitte and Arod are heroic figures for the pre-eminent franchise in the sport. They'll likely pay the price at HOF time, but that ship had sailed for Roger as well.

Even McGwire, who sort of looked the fool at testimony, did not give the government anything to chase down. He currently has a career in baseball and is not under any criminal investigation.

On those who lied are in the crosshairs. Bonds, Clemens, Tejada has some legal issues some time back.
You either come clean or plead the 5th.
If he is innocent, then that is one thing.. But if he is lying, he's going to pay dearly..

stephmhishot
08-23-10, 01:01 PM
whoops double post

stephmhishot
08-23-10, 01:02 PM
You know, I'm a bit tired about hearing about 40+ year old athletes who kept playing the "will I or won't I" retirement card every offseason, only to return anyway for 3-4 years while enjoying a resurgence late in his career when most guys in his sport were breaking down 5-7 years earlier. Only a moron would think he wasn't using some sort of performance enhancing drug late in his career.






Oh wait, I forgot this is the MLB forum, not the NFL forum. You think Rog wishes he stuck with football back in high school?

35Knucklecurve
08-23-10, 02:38 PM
Even if someone produced a photo of Clemens injecting himself with HGH, he'd still deny he ever did it.

It must have been a very difficult decision for Pettitte, knowing that what he said was going to probably leave one of his closest friends twisting in the wind. He always looked up to Clemens when all along, it should have been the other way around.

False1
08-23-10, 02:45 PM
Even if someone produced a photo of Clemens injecting himself with HGH, he'd still deny he ever did it.

It must have been a very difficult decision for Pettitte, knowing that what he said was going to probably leave one of his closest friends twisting in the wind. He always looked up to Clemens when all along, it should have been the other way around.Are they still close? Because if Clemens is lying, and I think almost everyone thinks he is, then he's sure not doing Andy any favors by asking him to implicate himself. Andy came clean, if Roger chose not to that's his problem.

roblyo33
08-23-10, 03:28 PM
Are they still close? Because if Clemens is lying, and I think almost everyone thinks he is, then he's sure not doing Andy any favors by asking him to implicate himself. Andy came clean, if Roger chose not to that's his problem.

Unfortuantely for Andy, he implicated himself when he testified to Congress regarding what Roger told him about his use of HGH and steroids.

nnysiny
08-23-10, 03:44 PM
Are they still close? Because if Clemens is lying, and I think almost everyone thinks he is, then he's sure not doing Andy any favors by asking him to implicate himself. Andy came clean, if Roger chose not to that's his problem.
Andy speaks to him like once a year now. I can't see them talking ever again at this point.

35Knucklecurve
08-24-10, 02:24 PM
Are they still close? Because if Clemens is lying, and I think almost everyone thinks he is, then he's sure not doing Andy any favors by asking him to implicate himself. Andy came clean, if Roger chose not to that's his problem.
I guess I should have said someone who used to be one of his closest buddies. I'd truly be shocked if they have had any communication at all for quite a while now.

nnysiny
08-30-10, 03:32 PM
Clemens pleads not guilty.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Roger-Clemens-pleads-not-guilty-to-perjury-charges-083010

Yankee Tripper
08-30-10, 03:35 PM
Clemens pleads not guilty.

Can't he just plead stupidity?

Beyle
08-30-10, 03:47 PM
Clemens pleads not guilty.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Roger-Clemens-pleads-not-guilty-to-perjury-charges-083010

That wasn't Clemens. It was his evil clone.

Eldee5
08-30-10, 05:42 PM
Clemens pleads not guilty.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Roger-Clemens-pleads-not-guilty-to-perjury-charges-083010

U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton set an April 5 date for choosing a jury after Clemens entered his plea.
Again, I'm only concerned about how this might affect Andy Pettitte should he decide to re-sign with the Yankees for 2011. I'm assuming that he's going to have to be a witness for the prosecution.

Rice14
08-30-10, 06:00 PM
I'm waiting for Clemens to come clean in 15 years via the Prison Without Bars series of books.

False1
08-30-10, 06:43 PM
Can he go with the misremembrance defense?

35Knucklecurve
08-31-10, 09:49 AM
Can he go with the misremembrance defense?
:lol:

He could walk into court with a syringe of HGH dangling from his butt and he'd still believe he was innocent. He will never admit he's done anything wrong because, in his mind, he couldn't have. He's The Rocket.

All the others who've admitted they used PED's won't be going to jail for it, but there's a real chance Clemens will serve time. 15-18 months is the length most likely to be sentenced if he's found guilty, according to most of the legal experts who've weighed in on this (along with a 1.5 millon dollar fine). For lying to Congress, 30 years is "on the books", for lack of a better term. So, even for lying, he's probably going to get off "light" and he will still proclaim he is innocent because, as I said.....he's The Rocket.

4bronxbombers
08-31-10, 10:04 AM
Had to laugh at him all smiles after he announced his "not guilty" plea as he plopped his ass in a golf cart, played golf, then got in his huge black Escalade and drove off. :eek: