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PirateChief
08-05-10, 10:25 PM
http://imgur.com/f8JZh.jpg

It's over for these clowns. Please comment on this being the worst year for umpiring in recent memory. Thank you and have a nice evening.

YankeePride1967
08-05-10, 10:28 PM
I'm watching the game now. Bob Davidson is a joke, he called the ball foul before it even went by him. Florida was robbed of a win and now in the 10th Ruiz homered for the Phillies. Unreal.

roblyo33
08-05-10, 10:31 PM
I am also watching the game and the ball was never foul, IMO. Right down the line, over the bag and 6" in fair territory in the outfield.. Unbelieveable!!

NYYDragoon
08-05-10, 10:36 PM
Human element!!!!1111

DontHateOnNumber2
08-05-10, 10:38 PM
How many games have been blown this year by umps totally missing obvious calls etc? I see this and think about Joe West complaining about Yankees-Red Sox games. Are they intentionally this lazy?

NYYDragoon
08-06-10, 12:02 AM
And then Davidson stands there all smugly. Ridiculous. They don't have the skill their massive egos would suggest.

Love the Marlins' announcers spazing out.

bigjf
08-06-10, 12:05 AM
I think it's always been this bad. The difference now is we have the chance to see every single blown call in all of baseball, complete with slow motion replays. However, the fact that we have this kind of access and baseball has done nothing to make these umpires accountable for their mistakes, that is unexcusable. In any other job, if your performance is bad, you could lose your job. In baseball, especially for veteran umps like Joe West and Bob Davidson, it's like they can just make whatever call they feel like making...even, in some cases, when it's not even supposed to be their call (like Mets/Giants)!

I noticed they started showing bad calls on replay at Yankee Stadium. I'm glad they started doing that. I used to think it was a classy move that it wasn't done in the past, but these cocky jerks don't deserve protecting.

d32123
08-06-10, 12:31 AM
If MLB started being harsher towards crappy umps then maybe they wouldn't suck so much. Thing is though they'd probably still suck. I'm all for replacing them all with computers.

Peanut
08-06-10, 12:43 AM
Doesnt even look like he's looking at the ball there

1970cs
08-06-10, 12:52 AM
What I can't understand is when one of them decides they are going to have an extremely wide strike zone for the game, they know every game broadcast has a graphic for pitch zone, k zone etc... Yet they will stand there and continue to do it, and there are no consequences for it.

Either they believe they are bigger than the game, and that is their right, or they don't understand what the strike zone is.

BroadwayBomber55
08-06-10, 01:42 AM
That umpire Bob Davidson is for the birds.

What a kneejerk reaction, jump to conclusions call.

machphantom
08-06-10, 03:36 AM
I have always called for going as far as allowing computers to call balls and strikes. The last thing this sport needs is a debacle similar to what nearly happened to the US in the World Cup.

mal1219
08-06-10, 03:44 AM
Horrible call ... what pisses me off is not that they are making errors (human element), I mean, we can't all be perfect. What pisses me off is that they are so sure that they are right. I mean, they're all just like a bunch of gun-slinger Joe West types in my eyes that will throw you out the minute you start to complain about a certain call. If I'm an umpire, and I see all these bad calls around me and the general crowd getting upset, I would go and ask MLB to give me some tools to make sure I'm doing my job as well as I can. Why don't the umpires unite and ask MLB for some kind of a review system. Then they will also be in control of what kind of review system is going to be used and they will not have to fear for their jobs. If anything, they will maybe need an extra official who will keep track of the reviews in one of the video rooms!

YankeePride1967
08-06-10, 07:30 AM
and Bob Davidson stands by his call.

ieddyi
08-06-10, 09:12 AM
and Bob Davidson stands by his call.

Absurd- he said the ball went over the bag fair, curved foul and somehow curved fair to land inside the foul line

That's a physical impossibility

What a clown

pleasepassthesoup
08-06-10, 09:17 AM
Horrible call ... what pisses me off is not that they are making errors (human element), I mean, we can't all be perfect.

but we have the technology to be a lot closer to perfect.

35Knucklecurve
08-06-10, 09:26 AM
Doesnt even look like he's looking at the ball there
He wasn't - he looked at it until it bounced the first time and then turned. That's what is so ridiculous. It was still clearly fair at that point.

They use Cyclops to call balls in and out in tennis and it's almost instant - the chair ump doesn't have to climb down, go to watch the replay and then make a call and the players accept the call - no argument is even necessary. I don't know how feasible that kind of system would be for MLB, but SOMETHING has to be done. They use extra umps on the lines during the post-season, so maybe they need to seriously consider using them all the time. I know that instant replay has made it easier to see errors made on calls, but I can't recall seeing this many, blatantly wrong calls before the technology to view it was existed - the key word being "blatant". Everbody can see it but the ones making the calls.

The umps today need to use the same system as the one for players - you don't perform, you get sent down to the minors and work your way back to the majors. They have nobody to blame but themselves. If you hear 40, 000 people in the stands yelling in protest, the teams on the field going nuts and managers blowing a gasket, there's a pretty good chance you need to at least consult with the other umpires. The call last night resulted in one team losing a game they would have won. It could have just as easily been Game 7 of the WS. Then what?

Yankeeah
08-06-10, 09:27 AM
That's a judgment call, a horrible one, but it's judgment. He's being a complete ass that he won't admit he got it wrong, but this is much worse.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Unreal-These-umpires-have-no-idea-how-the-infie;_ylt=Ar8E0DzMbc62NXFYXmbkceqrO4d4?urn=mlb-259658

The umpires get the actual rule wrong in this one.

NYYDragoon
08-06-10, 09:44 AM
and Bob Davidson stands by his call.This is what drives me nuts. Who defines the rules: the book or the old grouchy guys? It was a fair ball--what the hell is he standing by?

mal1219
08-06-10, 09:46 AM
but we have the technology to be a lot closer to perfect.

I would like to repeat that I do not understand umpires not asking MLB to use this technology. But yeah, just thank Joe West and all the other cowboys for not wanting to make a change.

YankeePride1967
08-06-10, 09:51 AM
This is what drives me nuts. Who defines the rules: the book or the old grouchy guys? It was a fair ball--what the hell is he standing by?

He said he doesn't care about the replay, no replay will show him what he saw with his own eyes. Said it doesn't matter where the ball lands but where it goes over the bag. So in his eyes, the ball started foul and then took a right turn after it crossed the base. He obviously doesn't have a physics degree.

PirateChief
08-06-10, 09:55 AM
He said he doesn't care about the replay, no replay will show him what he saw with his own eyes. Said it doesn't matter where the ball lands but where it goes over the bag. So in his eyes, the ball started foul and then took a right turn after it crossed the base. He obviously doesn't have a physics degree.
He's like the phantom spitter from Seinfeld.

Carbon Fiber
08-06-10, 10:02 AM
He said he doesn't care about the replay, no replay will show him what he saw with his own eyes. Said it doesn't matter where the ball lands but where it goes over the bag. So in his eyes, the ball started foul and then took a right turn after it crossed the base. He obviously doesn't have a physics degree.

Oh I feel horrible for saying this, but that IS physically possible. Now I am not standing up for the horrible umping this year or any year -- just saying that a ball can cross the 3rd base bag foul and land fair. All depends on the spin originally imparted on the ball by the bat.

YankeePride1967
08-06-10, 10:05 AM
Oh I feel horrible for saying this, but that IS physically possible. Now I am not standing up for the horrible umping this year or any year -- just saying that a ball can cross the 3rd base bag foul and land fair. All depends on the spin originally imparted on the ball by the bat.

Other than hitting a pebble or bouncing off the edge of the grass/dirt I cant remember seeing a ball take that kind of a spin although I guess it's possible. But that didn't happen last night, that ball was fair from the moment it left the bat until it landed past Davidson.

Blazer
08-06-10, 10:23 AM
http://imgur.com/f8JZh.jpg

It's over for these clowns. Please comment on this being the worst year for umpiring in recent memory. Thank you and have a nice evening.

He's clearly out of position. He should be straddling the line, but he's standing several feet in foul territory. In the days of NL & AL umpires one league (can't recall which) used to position the 1B & 3B umps in foul territory while the other put them on the line.

fredgmuggs
08-06-10, 10:49 AM
I'm watching the game now. Bob Davidson is a joke, he called the ball foul before it even went by him. Florida was robbed of a win and now in the 10th Ruiz homered for the Phillies. Unreal.
I have a question - does it matter where the balls ends up after it goes over the bag? I've been told forever that it only matters how the ball bounces over the bag.

If that's the case, I can't rip Davidson. He called the play as it crossed the bag - whether you agree with his opinion that it crossed the bag fair or foul is another matter.

YankeePride1967
08-06-10, 11:01 AM
I have a question - does it matter where the balls ends up after it goes over the bag? I've been told forever that it only matters how the ball bounces over the bag.

If that's the case, I can't rip Davidson. He called the play as it crossed the bag - whether you agree with his opinion that it crossed the bag fair or foul is another matter.

It is where the ball goes over the bag, but Davidson was not at a good angle to make that call.

fredgmuggs
08-06-10, 11:06 AM
It is where the ball goes over the bag, but Davidson was not at a good angle to make that call.
I'm not sure about that. He was where most umpires would be stationed on that play.

The thing that makes that play look so bad is that it landed in fair territory but I can't say with any certainty that it went over the bag in fair territory. I would say it probably did but I'm not certain. Strange play.

A lot of the criticism directed at Davidson seems to be he didn't make the call after the ball went past the bag but that's irrelevant.

YankeePride1967
08-06-10, 11:18 AM
I'm not sure about that. He was where most umpires would be stationed on that play.

The thing that makes that play look so bad is that it landed in fair territory but I can't say with any certainty that it went over the bag in fair territory. I would say it probably did but I'm not certain. Strange play.

A lot of the criticism directed at Davidson seems to be he didn't make the call after the ball went past the bag but that's irrelevant.

I wasn't going by where it landed, but by where it went over the bag and many umpires stand right on the foul side of the foul line so that gives them the best view possible.

Yankeeah
08-06-10, 11:19 AM
If he would have stood on the foul line it would have hit him

iamdoingthat
08-06-10, 11:23 AM
Love the Marlins' announcers spazing out.

Yeah, that was a treat. I believe the quote was "ooooh that was brutal!"

NewEraYanks2527
08-06-10, 11:25 AM
The umpiring has been atrocious for several years now and as I have said before, they need to be replaced.

YankeePride1967
08-06-10, 11:36 AM
If he would have stood on the foul line it would have hit him

Not standing on it, but just to the foul side of it, not where he was standing where even if the ball did go past the bag on the foul side, he wouldn't know.

RogerNatural
08-06-10, 06:41 PM
He said he doesn't care about the replay, no replay will show him what he saw with his own eyes. Said it doesn't matter where the ball lands but where it goes over the bag. So in his eyes, the ball started foul and then took a right turn after it crossed the base. He obviously doesn't have a physics degree. And he is absolutely correct. All the media people & fans are all over him. but guess what ? He is 1000 % correct. This call is dependent on where the ball is AT THE TIME IT PASSES THE BASE. As anybody can see, it was bouncing in foul territory before the base. In his judgment, it was still in foul territory as it passed the base. AFTER the base, it went into fair territory.If anybody has played this game, you'd see balls that had so much english on it, you'd think it was hit as a knuckleball. So in reality, this Umpire knows the rule... unlike many who are bashing him.

YankeePride1967
08-06-10, 06:44 PM
And he is absolutely correct. All the media people & fans are all over him. but guess what ? He is 1000 % correct. This call is dependent on where the ball is AT THE TIME IT PASSES THE BASE. As anybody can see, it was bouncing in foul territory before the base. In his judgment, it was still in foul territory as it passed the base. AFTER the base, it went into fair territory.If anybody has played this game, you'd see balls that had so much english on it, you'd think it was hit as a knuckleball. So in reality, this Umpire knows the rule... unlike many who are bashing him.

You are right, it does only matter where the ball passes the base, not after. No one is saying otherwise.

Blazer
08-06-10, 07:06 PM
It's obvious Davidson doesn't know the difference between a fair and foul ball.

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DiMaggio5CF
08-06-10, 11:51 PM
Other than hitting a pebble or bouncing off the edge of the grass/dirt I cant remember seeing a ball take that kind of a spin although I guess it's possible. But that didn't happen last night, that ball was fair from the moment it left the bat until it landed past Davidson.

On the last bounce before the bage, the ball hit on the foul line. On the first bounce after the bag, the ball hit about six inches in fair territory. So it did hit something and kick back toward fair territory. To say it didn't is just seeing what you want to see.

However... When the ball hit on the line on the last bounce before the bag, it is in fair territory. When it landed clearly fair on the first bounce after the bag, it was obviously in fair territory. That means that the ball was always fair, never foul, and that the call was an incorrect one.

However... As the ball hit on the line, it was very close to being foul. So although the call was the wrong one, it was close enough that you can't really kill the umpire on it. To me, it's like a bang-bang call at first base. The call might be right or wrong, but if you need replay to tell for sure, it's too close to be outraged about it. He made the wrong call, but it wasn't nearly as big a deal as people made it out to be. His refusal to admit fault is much worse IMO.

And one last thing, the ball is determined fair or foul when it crosses the bag -- not before, not after. So that shot of the ball bouncing in fair territory about 15 feet past the bag is, by itself, completely irrelevent. It only is useful when taken in conjunction with the shot of the bounce before it, where you see that the ball is on the line and thus still barely fair. It could not have gone foul between those two bounces. But to just show that frame as proof that the ball was fair is incorrect.

Principessa21
08-07-10, 01:11 AM
Absurd- he said the ball went over the bag fair, curved foul and somehow curved fair to land inside the foul line

That's a physical impossibility

What a clown If he said the ball went over the bag fair... isn't the conversation just kind of over at that point?
And one last thing, the ball is determined fair or foul when it crosses the bag -- not before, not after. So that shot of the ball bouncing in fair territory about 15 feet past the bag is, by itself, completely irrelevent. It only is useful when taken in conjunction with the shot of the bounce before it, where you see that the ball is on the line and thus still barely fair. It could not have gone foul between those two bounces. But to just show that frame as proof that the ball was fair is incorrect. Perfectly summarized.

I'm A Wenner!
08-07-10, 10:00 AM
And he is absolutely correct. All the media people & fans are all over him. but guess what ? He is 1000 % correct. This call is dependent on where the ball is AT THE TIME IT PASSES THE BASE. As anybody can see, it was bouncing in foul territory before the base. In his judgment, it was still in foul territory as it passed the base. AFTER the base, it went into fair territory.If anybody has played this game, you'd see balls that had so much english on it, you'd think it was hit as a knuckleball. So in reality, this Umpire knows the rule... unlike many who are bashing him.

So you're saying that the ball landed fair before the bag, curved around the base in mid-air, and then landed fair again? Really?

No, he blew the call, and he's embarrassing himself by trying to defend it.

YankeePride1967
08-07-10, 10:27 AM
First of all no one is saying anything anyone who has watched a single baseball game doesn't already know. Three outs to an inning, three strikes and you are out and where the ball is where it passes the base, not before or after, determines if it is fair or foul. Now that we have Baseball 101 out of the way, that ball passed over the base on the fair side, which by baseball rules makes it a fair ball. Bad call. Now is it "the worst call in the past 30 years" as the Florida manager said? Hardly but still a bad call.

ThePinStripes
08-07-10, 10:43 AM
at least this was one somewhat close. Some of the other calls have just been horrible, starting last year.

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Picture-14.png

http://www.lancewilkerson.com/storage/pictures/baseball/blownCall.jpg
blown perfect game

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sportsprose/cb-bucknor-umpire-red-sox.jpg

http://blog.silive.com/sportsstories/2009/07/large_jeter-out-at-third.jpg
I was told by the umpire that I didn't have to be tagged to be out," Jeter said, sounding somewhat annoyed.

BronxYanks45
08-07-10, 12:24 PM
there are some obvious blown calls that need attention, but not replay.

watching a game where a replay determines the call is boring. Do you think Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson or Ty Cobb had this advantage? Who knows their stats could be higher or lower with replay

leave it out

NYYDragoon
08-07-10, 12:39 PM
there are some obvious blown calls that need attention, but not replay.

watching a game where a replay determines the call is boring. Do you think Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson or Ty Cobb had this advantage? Who knows their stats could be higher or lower with replay

leave it outNo, they didn't, because the technology didn't exist. Also, it's "boring" for the game to be ruled on correctly? Interesting.

Please try a better argument.

JDPNYY
08-07-10, 12:42 PM
there are some obvious blown calls that need attention, but not replay.

watching a game where a replay determines the call is boring. Do you think Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson or Ty Cobb had this advantage? Who knows their stats could be higher or lower with replay

leave it out

Agreed. Teams should also take trains to away games, because The Babe had to take a train.

JfromJersey
08-07-10, 12:45 PM
Umpiring should not be a factor in determining the outcome of a game. If there is a way to eliminate or even reduce the number of bad calls, it should be done. IR should be looked at as a tool for the umps, not an insult to their egos. I'm tired of hearing the old "purity of the game" or "human element" arguments to justify the current ineptitude of umpiring. Balls and strikes is another matter, but the technology is in place to grade the accuracy of those calls, and those grades should weed out the rotten apples.

Rice14
08-07-10, 12:57 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_86-X5Fn-0UA/SHi77JkAWxI/AAAAAAAAB6o/UwUade3yRRQ/s320/lugoisout-wtf.jpg

My own personal favorite from a few years back. Julio Lugo "out" at first base according to Doug Eddings.

Blazer
08-07-10, 01:35 PM
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Blazer
08-07-10, 01:47 PM
Can't forget this one:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_2RrhdyJFL5g/RkCd8LuIw9I/AAAAAAAAAWI/ohFpMwyejpM/s400/call.JPG

Blazer
08-07-10, 01:51 PM
The real "worst call of all time".

http://bp3.blogger.com/_2RrhdyJFL5g/RkCd8buIw_I/AAAAAAAAAWY/jjGWvBUqU3I/s400/denkinger295x374.jpg

JeterRodriguezSheff
08-07-10, 02:02 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_86-X5Fn-0UA/SHi77JkAWxI/AAAAAAAAB6o/UwUade3yRRQ/s320/lugoisout-wtf.jpg

My own personal favorite from a few years back. Julio Lugo "out" at first base according to Doug Eddings.

How about that time Schilling got the umpire to over turn a call that was correct?

bnorris85
08-07-10, 02:16 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8zuOr3wS40s/S1MgBi394CI/AAAAAAAAAes/EykFaRMQbgA/s320/phantom+tag.jpg


This game is fun

NYYDragoon
08-07-10, 02:25 PM
Can't forget this one:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_2RrhdyJFL5g/RkCd8LuIw9I/AAAAAAAAAWI/ohFpMwyejpM/s400/call.JPGThat was maddening. And IIRC, the game ended with Abreu striking out on a pitch that was like 6-inches off the plate.

Rice14
08-07-10, 02:33 PM
How about that time Schilling got the umpire to over turn a call that was correct?

That was bizzare. Never seen that happen before or since.

TheYankee
08-07-10, 11:17 PM
I think people are actually being a bit harsh on the ump. First of all, that screen cap at the top is unfair. We all know it's about where the ball crosses the bag, not where it is after the bag. I still haven't seen anything terribly conclusive that the ball was indeed fair, other than circumstantial evidence.

flymick24
08-08-10, 03:38 AM
this shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody... his eyes look closed all the time

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20100721/fb18e8_ump07212010.jpg

I'm A Wenner!
08-08-10, 12:36 PM
How about that time Schilling got the umpire to over turn a call that was correct?

I'm not sure what you're saying. The original call was incorrect, and then was overturned and made correct. Please don't cloud the issue with this stuff.

Regarding Ruth and Cobb, they played in a segregated game that was tainted by gambling. The further we get from that game, the better.

I'm A Wenner!
08-08-10, 12:38 PM
I think people are actually being a bit harsh on the ump. First of all, that screen cap at the top is unfair. We all know it's about where the ball crosses the bag, not where it is after the bag. I still haven't seen anything terribly conclusive that the ball was indeed fair, other than circumstantial evidence.

The ball was fair when it bounced before the bag, and then fair again when it bounced after the bag. Are you contending that the ball curved in the air to go around the outside of the bag? Are you Jim Garrison?

TheYankee
08-08-10, 03:54 PM
The ball was fair when it bounced before the bag, and then fair again when it bounced after the bag. Are you contending that the ball curved in the air to go around the outside of the bag? Are you Jim Garrison?I am contending that that is a distinct possibility, yes. Balls do turn in weird ways after hitting the ground, believe it or not. And this is a closer call than everyone is making it out to be, too.

TheYankee
08-08-10, 03:56 PM
Doesnt even look like he's looking at the ball thereBecause he's looking at where the ball crossed the bag...

TheYankee
08-08-10, 03:58 PM
Absurd- he said the ball went over the bag fair, curved foul and somehow curved fair to land inside the foul line

That's a physical impossibility

What a clownHow is it a physical impossibility?

TheYankee
08-08-10, 04:01 PM
It's obvious Davidson doesn't know the difference between a fair and foul ball.

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rHzjiVPnMJE&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>ha. I was at that game.

awy
08-08-10, 04:48 PM
oh my gods replays are the devil

BronxYanks45
08-08-10, 07:56 PM
No, they didn't, because the technology didn't exist. Also, it's "boring" for the game to be ruled on correctly? Interesting.

Please try a better argument.

my point is when do you draw the line at going to replay for the answer? I mean why not use replay to call strikes? that completely removes the essence of baseball or having an ump call strikes.

I wont disagree that there have been terrible calls this year, but I dont think replay is the answer we should go for.

Blazer
08-08-10, 11:33 PM
my point is when do you draw the line at going to replay for the answer? I mean why not use replay to call strikes? that completely removes the essence of baseball or having an ump call strikes.

I wont disagree that there have been terrible calls this year, but I dont think replay is the answer we should go for.

There's a difference between reviewing 300 pitches per game as opposed to 1 or 2 close plays.

PirateChief
08-09-10, 06:17 AM
my point is when do you draw the line at going to replay for the answer? I mean why not use replay to call strikes? that completely removes the essence of baseball or having an ump call strikes.

I wont disagree that there have been terrible calls this year, but I dont think replay is the answer we should go for.
How much longer could those players have played if the DH was in their league? How many more hits? How many more RBIs? How many more years could pitchers have pitched if the mound wasn't lowered? How many more Ks and wins?

Baseball is not a static game. To suggest that we should keep it constant for the integrity of the game is myopic. You're ignoring 100 years of change.

Meecham4ever
08-09-10, 10:26 AM
Big Poopy agrees that the umpiring is turr-bel.

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/Red_Sox_Journal_Ortiz_strike_zon_08-09-10_QLJ_v2.26ed7ca.html

Ortiz is never shy about letting umpires know when he doesn’t like a strike call.

After CC Sabathia struck him out three times on Saturday, Ortiz was ready to let everyone else know how unhappy he was, too.

“The fact is that on top of [Sabathia] being that good, he’s got [an ump] calling all kinds of [stuff] that made him better,” Ortiz said

BRNXBMRS
08-09-10, 10:43 AM
Thursday night in Miami, the Florida Marlins had a walk-off victory over the Phillies taken away from them when third-base umpire Bob Davidson egregiously blew the call on Gaby Sanchez's would-be tie-breaking base hit down the third-base line. Davidson called the ball foul despite all the replays showing it in fair territory before and after going over the bag. Despite that, Davidson, characteristically, refused to ask for help. But then, what else to expect from the worst umpire in baseball, an umpire who historically has been involved in terrible calls - and subsequent ugly confrontations with players and managers alike. This was an umpire who was fired by then-NL president Leonard Coleman years ago for general incompetence yet somehow allowed back into the fold by the MLB poobahs. It wasn't like he got any better in exile either. Last month, Bud Selig got rid of Jimmie Lee Solomon, the VP of administration in charge of the umpires, and replaced him with Frank Robinson. Selig did so because he is tired of being embarrassed by all the bad umpiring. To this, however, he needs to be asked two questions: How much more embarrassing do you need, and why is Bob Davidson still working in the majors?
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2010/08/07/2010-08-07_aging_arod_a_concern_for_yankees.html#ixzz0w7VFYv85

DiMaggio5CF
08-10-10, 11:29 AM
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2010/08/07/2010-08-07_aging_arod_a_concern_for_yankees.html#ixzz0w7VFYv85

The article is unfair in criticizing Davidson for not asking for help. Who was he supposed to ask for help? The HP umpire is the only one with a decent angle on the ball, but he's 90 feet away and might not have had time to set himself up on the line. And the 1B and 2B umps are nowhere near being in a position to make a call on a ball down the 3B line.

There's a reason that a play like that is the 3B ump's call, and that's because he's got by far the best look at it. He blew the call, but to criticize him for not asking people who had a worse angle on it for help isn't fair IMO.

I'm A Wenner!
08-10-10, 01:05 PM
The article is unfair in criticizing Davidson for not asking for help. Who was he supposed to ask for help? The HP umpire is the only one with a decent angle on the ball, but he's 90 feet away and might not have had time to set himself up on the line. And the 1B and 2B umps are nowhere near being in a position to make a call on a ball down the 3B line.

There's a reason that a play like that is the 3B ump's call, and that's because he's got by far the best look at it. He blew the call, but to criticize him for not asking people who had a worse angle on it for help isn't fair IMO.

One of them probably noticed the ball landing inside the foul line, making it physically impossible for the ball to have crossed the base in foul territory.

freebubba
08-10-10, 01:08 PM
The fair/foul thing is completely ridiculous, those should absolutely be subject to instant replay. I'm not sure how accurate MLB gameday is one balls/strikes, but I view a lot of games, and the homeplate umpiring has been consistently terrible.

I'm A Wenner!
08-10-10, 01:12 PM
Unless, of course, you believe this:

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/Mwenton/BobDavidsonHatesPhysics.jpg

bnorris85
08-10-10, 02:32 PM
pspaint <3

Carbon Fiber
08-10-10, 03:46 PM
Unless, of course, you believe this:

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy130/Mwenton/BobDavidsonHatesPhysics.jpg
Very unlikely, but definitely possible. If it had significant spin and was deflected by some ground matter like a pebble, sure it is possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_effect

I take it you don't go bowling very often??? ;) (curves in bowling are not from the magnus effect, but that ruins the joke)

gold23
08-10-10, 03:51 PM
Very unlikely, but definitely possible. If it had significant spin and was deflected by some ground matter like a pebble, sure it is possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_effect

I take it you don't go bowling very often??? ;) (curves in bowling are not from the magnus effect, but that ruins the joke)

Oliver Stone can chronicle it with a film revolving around the "magic baseball".

YankeeFanSinceBucky
08-15-10, 01:54 PM
Joey Votto ejected for "not arguing" balls n strikes today in the 1st. Ball was about 6 inches above the zone, Votto said something and was tossed.

Seth
08-15-10, 06:26 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100815&content_id=13484640&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

That's absolutely ridiculous that Votto got ejected. It didn't look like he said anything to home plate umpire before he was ejected.

flymick24
08-16-10, 02:27 AM
that's effing retarded... can't stand umps who think they're bigger than the game.

NelsonMuntz
08-16-10, 10:14 AM
Did anyone see the piece on bad umpiring that ESPN ran on "Outside the Lines" today? Basically they studied 230 close calls (excluding balls/strikes) from 184 games over a random 2 week period and analyzed them on replay. 66% were deemed to be correct, 14% were too close to confirm or overturn, and 20% were cited as bad calls, i.e., if there was instant replay in baseball they would have been overturned.

Here is the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=5464015

YankeeFanSinceBucky
08-16-10, 11:16 AM
Did anyone see the piece on bad umpiring that ESPN ran on "Outside the Lines" today? Basically they studied 230 close calls (excluding balls/strikes) from 184 games over a random 2 week period and analyzed them on replay. 66% were deemed to be correct, 14% were too close to confirm or overturn, and 20% were cited as bad calls, i.e., if there was instant replay in baseball they would have been overturned.

Here is the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=5464015

that was a good piece. thanks nel

Sam18
08-16-10, 11:40 AM
Did anyone see the piece on bad umpiring that ESPN ran on "Outside the Lines" today? Basically they studied 230 close calls (excluding balls/strikes) from 184 games over a random 2 week period and analyzed them on replay. 66% were deemed to be correct, 14% were too close to confirm or overturn, and 20% were cited as bad calls, i.e., if there was instant replay in baseball they would have been overturned.

Here is the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=5464015

The worst part was hearing the arguments for keeping instant replay out of baseball. Awful.

False1
08-16-10, 11:57 AM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100815&content_id=13484640&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

That's absolutely ridiculous that Votto got ejected. It didn't look like he said anything to home plate umpire before he was ejected.Umpires are having a terrible year in general, but I think we're quick to jump at their throats these days. First off, that pitch was a strike. Votto mouthed off, walked away from the plate delaying the game and muttering something, stepped back in and clearly popped off again. I couldn't hear what Votto said, I'm pretty certain no one other than he and Reyburn know what he said. The article you link to says that Votto was popping off about a called strike to Bruce earlier. Even Baker's comments seemed to corroborate that and he didn't seem real surprised or upset that Votto got tossed.

I'm disappointed in the quality of calls this season and when umpires are in the spotlight it takes away from the game... but that doesn't mean players should be able to pop off about called strikes - particularly when they are accurate. It's getting to be like the NBA now, where every other foul is demonstrably argued by the unjustly whistled player. Seems like there's no such thing as a good strike three call for some players. Heck, this strike two call wasn't good enough for Votto.

Ram Man
08-16-10, 05:33 PM
The worst part was hearing the arguments for keeping instant replay out of baseball. Awful.

I agree that the arguments in the ESPN piece were weak but there is a lot more to adding replay than just saying, "let's have replays." A lot of plays are asymmetrical in that if a ball that is actually foul is called fair, you can just send the players back to where they were and start over after the replay. However, if a ball that is actually fair is called foul, then what do you do? Call it a double and advance all runners two bases? It is one thing if that call happens on a screaming line drive down the left field line but something else if it happens on a bloop over the first baseman's head down the right field line. What if it occurs with two outs versus no outs and runners are running? I'm afraid that having expanded replays would not be satisfying to all concerned.

35Knucklecurve
08-17-10, 02:15 PM
There seems to be a lot of speculation that a positive outcome from using instant replay in the LLWS will go a long way in forcing MLB to expand the current use of it. With the string of atrocious calls and lack of knowledge of the rulebook we've seen this year, it's a pretty sad commentary on the state of the game when the pros have to observe the way it's done with 12 year olds and guys who umpire the games for free. ;)

Hitman23
08-17-10, 02:49 PM
I agree that the arguments in the ESPN piece were weak but there is a lot more to adding replay than just saying, "let's have replays." A lot of plays are asymmetrical in that if a ball that is actually foul is called fair, you can just send the players back to where they were and start over after the replay. However, if a ball that is actually fair is called foul, then what do you do? Call it a double and advance all runners two bases? It is one thing if that call happens on a screaming line drive down the left field line but something else if it happens on a bloop over the first baseman's head down the right field line. What if it occurs with two outs versus no outs and runners are running? I'm afraid that having expanded replays would not be satisfying to all concerned.It's actually not that hard to do. The players should always run hard and finish the play. The ump could call a review of it. If it was fair, the play counted. If it was foul, the runners go back to where they started. But as long as the runners run and the fielders field and throw, the play would finish and you can make a ruling that everyone would be happy with.

roblyo33
08-17-10, 03:04 PM
It's actually not that hard to do. The players should always run hard and finish the play. The ump could call a review of it. If it was fair, the play counted. If it was foul, the runners go back to where they started. But as long as the runners run and the fielders field and throw, the play would finish and you can make a ruling that everyone would be happy with.

This is so wrong, in so many ways, I won't even begin to debate.

Meecham4ever
08-17-10, 05:19 PM
Larry King has spoken, thus ending all debate.....

http://www.esquire.com/features/what-ive-learned/larry-king-interview-0910#ixzz0wts37PJJ

"To not use technology to help officiate sporting events is insane. It's: Okay, we'll accept bad."

http://pics.lamusica.com/d/363120-1/Larry+King+big+hair+from+Deadspin.jpg

Hitman23
08-17-10, 05:29 PM
This is so wrong, in so many ways, I won't even begin to debate.Might as well you already started it by posting anything at all.

Ram Man
08-17-10, 09:20 PM
It's actually not that hard to do.

Yes, it would be hard to do.


The players should always run hard and finish the play. The ump could call a review of it. If it was fair, the play counted. If it was foul, the runners go back to where they started. But as long as the runners run and the fielders field and throw, the play would finish and you can make a ruling that everyone would be happy with.

Batter rips one a foot off the ground over the third base bag, the umpire immediately throws up his hands and signals foul. You think the runner on first is going to leg it all around to score, the left fielder is going to dig it out of the corner, fire it toward the plate where the first baseman cuts it off and throws the batter out at second just in case replay shows the ball was really fair?

Everyone would have to become an umpire - the runners, fielders and batter - to make some determination if the ball was close enough to warrant a replay. That isn't even remotely realistic.

So, assuming everyone stops just like they do now as soon as the umpire emphatically signals foul, there would have to be some kind of rule such as the ground rule double to properly place the runners after replay shows the ball was really fair and that rule would have to be applied differently if there were two outs versus none or one out and if the runner in first was a fast or slow runner or else you'd have the blown call affecting the result of the play. Gee, just like now!

Hitman23
08-17-10, 09:28 PM
Well I was saying that with the assumption that if replay was something added, an ump would not immediately signal a foil, let the play resume and then review things that seem necessary to review. But I suppose that's unrealistic, so I surrender my argument.

Ram Man
08-17-10, 09:34 PM
Well I was saying that with the assumption that if replay was something added, an ump would not immediately signal a foil, let the play resume and then review things that seem necessary to review. But I suppose that's unrealistic, so I surrender my argument.

I'm actually in favor of expanding replay but the adjudication of any given play could certainly be problematic depending on just what plays are deemed to be reviewable. I'm just not sure the inch thick book of "adjudication rules" would leave players, managers and fans any more satisfied than they are now.

roblyo33
08-17-10, 11:19 PM
Might as well you already started it by posting anything at all.

Looks like someone beat me to it. That's only one of hundreds of instances that could occur.

Hitman23
08-18-10, 09:48 AM
I'm actually in favor of expanding replay but the adjudication of any given play could certainly be problematic depending on just what plays are deemed to be reviewable. I'm just not sure the inch thick book of "adjudication rules" would leave players, managers and fans any more satisfied than they are now.As each year passes I am starting to be more in favor of replays as well. It's really hard to say what is worthy and what isn't and to what extent and what effect it will have on game length.

sayzach
08-19-10, 06:59 PM
Yes, it would be hard to do.



Batter rips one a foot off the ground over the third base bag, the umpire immediately throws up his hands and signals foul. You think the runner on first is going to leg it all around to score, the left fielder is going to dig it out of the corner, fire it toward the plate where the first baseman cuts it off and throws the batter out at second just in case replay shows the ball was really fair?

Everyone would have to become an umpire - the runners, fielders and batter - to make some determination if the ball was close enough to warrant a replay. That isn't even remotely realistic.

So, assuming everyone stops just like they do now as soon as the umpire emphatically signals foul, there would have to be some kind of rule such as the ground rule double to properly place the runners after replay shows the ball was really fair and that rule would have to be applied differently if there were two outs versus none or one out and if the runner in first was a fast or slow runner or else you'd have the blown call affecting the result of the play. Gee, just like now!

This is why Umpires are trained to call fair if it is too close to tell, or if they missed it. It is much easier to ask the home plate umpire for assistance after the play and say it was foul, then it is to talk to the home plate umpire and rule it fair then decide where each runner would end up.

flymick24
08-19-10, 07:03 PM
the easiest solution is just to get rid of everyone right now and hire new umpires under 40.. a lot of these problems seems to occur because they're old, senile, privileged f**** who don't give a crap about the game anymore and see themselves as bigger than what's going on on the field

NYYDragoon
08-19-10, 07:04 PM
the easiest solution is just to get rid of everyone right now and hire new umpires under 40.. a lot of these problems seems to occur because they're old, senile, privileged f**** who don't give a crap about the game anymore and see themselves as bigger than what's going on on the fieldSee: Joe West.

flymick24
08-19-10, 07:30 PM
i see joe west alright:

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/09/07/1126101618_9016.jpg

Peanut
08-19-10, 07:44 PM
Not a "blown call", but another example of umpire stupidity

Per ESPN...


News: Zimmerman was ejected from Wednesday's game in the eighth inning.
Spin: If you saw that he left the game early in the box score, there's nothing to worry about. Zimmerman got the heave from home plate ump Scott Barry after tossing his helmet and bat in disgust following a strikeout, which wouldn't be that noteworthy except that he struck out swinging and didn't say a word to Barry
(http://games.espn.go.com/flb/resources/playernews?sportsId=6389)

35Knucklecurve
08-20-10, 01:24 PM
Not a "blown call", but another example of umpire stupidity

Per ESPN...


(http://games.espn.go.com/flb/resources/playernews?sportsId=6389)
I was watching that game and couldn't believe he gave Zimmermann the hook. If you can't tell the difference between a player being digusted with himself and digusted with you, you probably can't tell the difference between a ball and strike either. However, Zimmerman struck out swinging. :wtf:

YankeeFanSinceBucky
08-21-10, 01:08 PM
Nik Markakis last night was ejected after he "questioned" 4 pitches, 3 were called strikes. Brutal. Buck went nuts

sayzach
08-21-10, 01:56 PM
the easiest solution is just to get rid of everyone right now and hire new umpires under 40.. a lot of these problems seems to occur because they're old, senile, privileged f**** who don't give a crap about the game anymore and see themselves as bigger than what's going on on the field

Exactly, it used be your goal as an Umpire to sit in the corner and hope no one notices you. Now it's their goal to get every call right and make sure everyone agrees with you and doesn't disrespect you. If they do, then throw them out. That's the problem with umpires these days, they don't try to go unnoticed, they try to make sure everything goes exactly how they feel it should, even if its not the right way.

And to anyone who says yes to replay needs to check out college football. It is the most exciting game play of all sports in my opinion, only problem is after every play, there is a review. Nothing worse then watching your team score a touchdown with 20 seconds left to take the lead, then having to sit for 5 minutes to see if he really scored, or if he stepped out at the 3 yard line. That's what will happen in baseball. Even if you can easily see in a second that the runner beat the throw to first, you still have to deal with the time it takes a coach to run out, challenge a play, and then umpires see the play and overturn it. And that will happen more often then coaches coming out to argue. Because right now if it's a bang bang play, the manager will give the umpire the benefit of the doubt. But if he can challenge the play, then he will challenge any play that is close.

Ram Man
08-21-10, 02:47 PM
But if he can challenge the play, then he will challenge any play that is close.

The solution is to limit the number of challenges per game. That's all. Use them wisely.

TheYankee
08-21-10, 03:08 PM
the easiest solution is just to get rid of everyone right now and hire new umpires under 40.. a lot of these problems seems to occur because they're old, senile, privileged f**** who don't give a crap about the game anymore and see themselves as bigger than what's going on on the fieldDamn right! DOWN WITH OLD PEOPLE!

TheYankee
08-21-10, 03:09 PM
The solution is to limit the number of challenges per game. That's all. Use them wisely.Coaches challenges is a dumb concept. The NFL is smart to involve replay. The coaches challenge system is dumb.

Ram Man
08-21-10, 03:35 PM
Coaches challenges is a dumb concept. The NFL is smart to involve replay. The coaches challenge system is dumb.

It is one alternative to avoiding endless challenges. The other is as they do for college football whereby every play is theoretically reviewed and the referee is notified if a play is being reviewed. Having a fifth (or seventh in the case of post-season) umpire in the booth who would notify the crew chief on the field if they wanted to review a play would be to incorporate replay into baseball. You'd then run the risk of having managers storm the replay booth and kick dirt on the upstairs ump.

False1
08-21-10, 08:31 PM
I guess it correlates to the perceived dropoff in quality of umpiring, but there seems to be a ton more showing up of umpires on ball/strike calls - even the borderline ones. That used to be the providence of managers only. Umpires are going to miss some calls. I really don't want the game being slowed down by batters taking a stroll every time a strike is called, or stepping out to question the umpire on a call.

PirateChief
09-04-10, 06:37 PM
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/location.php?pitchSel=547973&game=gid_2010_09_04_cinmlb_slnmlb_1/&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=

someone needs to stop these wastes.

PirateChief
09-04-10, 06:39 PM
http://i52.tinypic.com/2mg402d.png
human element is so great in the game

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
09-04-10, 06:56 PM
Holy cow.

Blazer
09-04-10, 08:28 PM
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/location.php?pitchSel=547973&game=gid_2010_09_04_cinmlb_slnmlb_1/&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=

someone needs to stop these wastes.

Jesus! Of the 6 pitches in the zone that weren't swung on only 1 was a called strike, and that one was right down the middle.

delv
09-04-10, 11:15 PM
there's only one answer: that ump must have been being paid off by the Castros

Dave B
09-05-10, 05:02 AM
That one's easy to excuse: Chapman throws so hard they can't see it.

(There's no way that's actually real, is there?)

RogerNatural
09-06-10, 04:27 PM
Batters, take notice: home plate now extends outward to the opposite batter's box line.

Peanut
09-07-10, 11:42 PM
Some of it might just be the improvements in technology, especially when it comes to the balls/strikes stuff. But it really does seem like umpires get worse every year

flymick24
09-08-10, 12:01 AM
http://jkmckenna.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/joe-west.jpg

Jax Teller
09-08-10, 12:10 PM
Apparently Bob Davidson ejected a fan during the Brewers-Cardinals game....wtf?

Seth
09-08-10, 02:17 PM
Apparently Bob Davidson ejected a fan during the Brewers-Cardinals game....wtf?

I saw that this morning on Quick Pitch. Davidson has moved into the Angel Hernandez territory of douchebagery for throwing out a fan. What guys like Davidson and his ilk don't realize or care is that the fans don't watch or go to games to watch the umpire be the center of attention.

Here is the clip of ejections from last night's Cardinals/Brewers game: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100907&content_id=14412792&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Jax Teller
09-08-10, 02:22 PM
I've never heard of such a thing before.

Blazer
09-08-10, 02:39 PM
What did Bob Davidson say after a 4 day drunk?

"I threw out a WHAT?"

Seth
09-08-10, 02:43 PM
I've never heard of such a thing before.

The only thing I can think of that's close was Angel Hernandez ejecting Steve McMichael when he was singing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" at Wrigley Field a few years ago.

http://billroper.livejournal.com/815338.html

mal1219
09-08-10, 04:18 PM
So wait ... the people that pay for the tickets, and are the main reason (besides incompetent MLB people not regulating these umpire f*cks) they have a job are getting thrown out?!

This is just ridiculous. Fan should've just sat in his chair. Let them call the police.

Jax Teller
09-08-10, 04:20 PM
I think I read somewhere that charges were filed against the fan...misconduct or whatever.

Principessa21
09-09-10, 12:55 AM
Supposedly the fan was using homophobic slurs. What surprises me is (1) that Davidson overstepped his boundaries (according to the MLB rule book, the umpire can eject fans on the field of play, but no mention of them in the stands) because (2) he thought Molina was going to go over and punch the guy. I don't agree with the fan's behavior, but that can't be close to the worst, and the Cardinals are such crybabies.

DiMaggio5CF
09-09-10, 07:40 PM
From the MLB.com article:


By rule 7.09 (f), "It is interference by a batter or a runner when -- If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100907&content_id=14412792&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

That type of play happens all the time, and it is never called. The big gripe to me, IMO, is the timing of the call and one particular umpire taking upon himself to make that call in September. I personally think that call should be made more often, but MLB should make an announcement at the beginning of the season that such plays will be more strictly enforced.

That said, it's hard to have a real big problem with Timmons' call because it's technically the right call.

yankee82093
09-09-10, 08:29 PM
I actually don't really have a problem with the interference call. However, I don't think he should have thrown out Duncan, the brewer's CF, or the fan.

NelsonMuntz
09-10-10, 04:27 PM
Matt Holliday was ejected after arguing an absolutely ridiculous strike 3 call. The ball was low and about a foot outside. Video: http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11898541

flymick24
09-10-10, 04:37 PM
that ump looked like elvis

CyYoung4Vazquez
09-10-10, 09:01 PM
That 'stolen base' by Texas was probably one of the top 3 bad calls I have ever seen. Ump should be suspended. Pitiful.

fredgmuggs
09-10-10, 09:03 PM
That 'stolen base' by Texas was probably one of the top 3 bad calls I have ever seen. Ump should be suspended. Pitiful.
I saw a bunch of replays and I'm not sure if Jeter made the tag. But then again I'm not sure he missed the tag either.

MassNYYfan
09-10-10, 09:04 PM
This whole crew is the sh*t.

And by that I mean actual feces.

Yankeeah
09-10-10, 09:14 PM
It's hard to say if he tagged him or not but when the throw beats the runner by that much you have to be 100% positive he doesn't tag him.

By the way, the home plate umpire is much worse.

yankeefan122
09-10-10, 09:18 PM
That 'stolen base' by Texas was probably one of the top 3 bad calls I have ever seen. Ump should be suspended. Pitiful.

The only play I've seen worse at 2nd was when we played Seattle a few years ago and Cano had a guy tagged out by like 3 feet. Yet the ump called the guy safe.

NelsonMuntz
09-10-10, 09:18 PM
It's hard to say if he tagged him or not but when the throw beats the runner by that much you have to be 100% positive he doesn't tag him.

By the way, the home plate umpire is much worse.
He is awful. That outside pitch that he is giving to Wilson is at least 6" off the plate.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
09-10-10, 09:24 PM
The call at second base reminded me of...

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/rehague/cani.jpg


EDIT: As yankeefan122 apparently already mentioned.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
09-11-10, 01:02 AM
That 3-0 pitch to Tex in the 13th...wow.