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azzurribaggio
05-01-10, 01:04 PM
Is it too early to tell?? Austin Jackson v Curtis Granderson?

hardrain
05-01-10, 01:22 PM
Is it too early to tell?? Austin Jackson v Curtis Granderson?

Is it too early? Please stop and ask this question in 10-12 years.

snarkerella
05-01-10, 01:26 PM
Is it too early to tell??

... yes

NYYDragoon
05-01-10, 01:38 PM
Do we really need another one of these threads?

azzurribaggio, how long have you been following baseball? Why are you trying to make conclusions on a ROOKIE vs an ALL-STAR after the first month of the season?

jobasfistpump62
05-01-10, 01:56 PM
It's not too early. Austin Jackson will be a .350 career hitter. Granderson is nothing more than a .230 hitter.

Think before you post.

HughesIsNasty
05-01-10, 01:56 PM
It's too early to tell, but I'd rather have Austin Jackson....just because I'm such a huge fan. I feel like he's going to develop power like Cano did.

Mark19
05-01-10, 02:00 PM
Granderson has had a largely awful first month with the bat while Jackson has looked like Justin Upton.

Cashman knew he was giving up a light-hitting RH CF with speed in favor of an older, more expensive LH CF with power - things will likely never again look as bad as they do right now. Jackson isn't this good and Granderson isn't this bad.

hardrain
05-01-10, 02:24 PM
Do we really need another one of these threads?

azzurribaggio, how long have you been following baseball? Why are you trying to make conclusions on a ROOKIE vs an ALL-STAR after the first month of the season?

thank you

hardrain
05-01-10, 02:27 PM
It's not too early. Austin Jackson will be a .350 career hitter. Granderson is nothing more than a .230 hitter.

Think before you post.so he will be one of the top three batting average hitters in baseball history...stemming back 150 years????

wow...you must be clairvoyant. You know he will be a lifetime .350 hitter. Care to make a wager? Not to mention that batting average is not a good indicator of one's value.

TheYankee
05-01-10, 02:28 PM
Yes. We made a mistake. Panic.

TheYankee
05-01-10, 02:28 PM
It's not too early. Austin Jackson will be a .350 career hitter. Granderson is nothing more than a .230 hitter.

Think before you post.
W T F ?

BroadwayBomber55
05-01-10, 02:48 PM
Yes. We made a mistake. Panic.
OH NO! WHY?! :soapbox: :eek:

azzurribaggio
05-01-10, 03:03 PM
:) ...

jobasfistpump62
05-01-10, 03:07 PM
W T F ?
The beginning of my post was sarcasm. I guess it didn't translate well.

brosiusbuddy
05-01-10, 03:27 PM
Hey Azz, you might find your answer in the other thread on the same exact topic.

hardrain
05-01-10, 03:41 PM
The beginning of my post was sarcasm. I guess it didn't translate well.

what? proclaiming that A. Jackson will be a lifetime.350 hitter? I can't imagine why you weren't taken seriously.

jobasfistpump62
05-01-10, 04:46 PM
what? proclaiming that A. Jackson will be a lifetime.350 hitter? I can't imagine why you weren't taken seriously.
I know right. I mean, he'll probably end up being the best hitter in baseball history. At least it seems that way by what some opinions on this board are.

TheYankee
05-01-10, 04:57 PM
what? proclaiming that A. Jackson will be a lifetime.350 hitter? I can't imagine why you weren't taken seriously.
Given the posts I've seen around here on the topic, you'll excuse me if I didn't sense the sarcasm.

jobasfistpump62
05-01-10, 05:23 PM
Given the posts I've seen around here on the topic, you'll excuse me if I didn't sense the sarcasm.
Yes, you are excused lol. It's insane that people are talking about AJax like the second coming.

TheYankee
05-01-10, 05:41 PM
Yes, you are excused lol. It's insane that people are talking about AJax like the second coming.I mean, I hated to see the guy go too. But holy cow, the overreaction is epic.

PinstripeDynasty
05-01-10, 07:37 PM
Austin Jackson vs. Curtis Granderson
no Javier Vazquez vs. Javier Vazquez
Hideki Matsui vs. Nick Johnson

The ones on the left all look good.

Since95
05-01-10, 08:09 PM
Hated this trade...

NYYDragoon
05-01-10, 10:33 PM
I swear. For some of you, this must be your first season watching baseball. Do you all remember Chris Shelton in 2006? Also of the Tigers, he was the MVP of April who rapidly faded away by the end of the season. This season is LONG.

Even with this DL situation the trade will work out in our favor.

dabomb2045
05-01-10, 10:37 PM
I swear. For some of you, this must be your first season watching baseball. Do you all remember Chris Shelton in 2006? Also of the Tigers, he was the MVP of April who rapidly faded away by the end of the season. This season is LONG.

Even with this DL situation the trade will work out in our favor.

It really is ridiculous how dumb people are.

ericns1
05-01-10, 10:38 PM
Yes - like Granderson but should keep prospects unless the offer is really great not just good

bigjf
05-02-10, 12:03 AM
Remember when Shelley Duncan was a mashing machine? When the league catches up with Austin Jackson, people are going to be singing a different tune.

MaximMan121
05-02-10, 12:20 AM
Guys:

(.300/.530) * .364 is .206.

What's that mean, you ask? It's what you get if you normalize Austin Jackson's batting average on balls in play to league average. A batting average of .206. Which, when combined with his walk rate gives you a .264 OBP. That's ball-achingly bad--especially when you're striking out 1/3 of the time.

He's been incredibly lucky so far. Incredibly, incredibly lucky. That doesn't mean he won't become a good player, by the way. It just means he's not one yet.

BonusCantos
05-02-10, 12:22 AM
It's one thing to second-guess a trade years down the road, but it's quite another to second-guess a trade for an All-Star after only a month. The Yankees gave up someone who might be a good player for someone who is. It was the right move.

teknetic
05-02-10, 01:01 AM
It really is ridiculous how dumb people are.

It's usually posters who don't post anywhere else and just come out of the woodworks to cry about low batting averages and the '04 collapse. They tend to fade away quickly, but like annoying termites they come back. So we're all hosed really.

2PhonesMaccabee
05-02-10, 02:53 AM
I swear. For some of you, this must be your first season watching baseball. This.

ajra21
05-02-10, 03:52 AM
ahahahaahahahahahahahhaha at this thread ...

machphantom
05-02-10, 04:20 AM
Doomed.

DontHateOnNumber2
05-02-10, 04:51 AM
I swear. For some of you, this must be your first season watching baseball. Do you all remember Chris Shelton in 2006? Also of the Tigers, he was the MVP of April who rapidly faded away by the end of the season. This season is LONG.

Even with this DL situation the trade will work out in our favor.

Oh man I totally remember that..didn't he get DFA'd that season? Or released before the next season? Regardless, I remember he was killing the ball during the beginning of that season and didn't get hurt or anything but totally flamed out. I think Jackson will be alright at the top of Detroit's lineup, but obviously only when he isn't striking out...which he has and will aplenty. Granderson will be alright, just rest the guy and hope to God that Gardner and Winn/Thames can step it up and hold the fort until he returns. Hopefully Swisher heats up a bit.

PinstripeDynasty
05-02-10, 09:13 AM
Austin Jackson vs. Curtis Granderson
no Javier Vazquez vs. Javier Vazquez
Hideki Matsui vs. Nick Johnson

The ones on the left all look good.
I liked the Granderson trade when it happened, and I still have no problem with it. I was just saying, it has not started favorably for any of these "swaps".

And the groin injury could be a career dampener for a speed player. Hopefully not.

delv
05-02-10, 09:22 AM
can we get a MOD to combine all these Ajax threads?

NelsonMuntz
05-02-10, 10:09 AM
I was an Ajax fan the moment we drafted him and I was looking forward to seeing him as our starting CF'er some day. That being said, any GM in Cashman's position would have made that trade. It's easy to second guess one month into the season when Granderson is struggling and the rookie is off to a hot start but it's clearly too soon to jump to any conclusions.

NYYDragoon
05-02-10, 10:35 AM
I was an Ajax fan the moment we drafted him and I was looking forward to seeing him as our starting CF'er some day. That being said, any GM in Cashman's position would have made that trade. It's easy to second guess one month into the season when Granderson is struggling and the rookie is off to a hot start but it's clearly too soon to jump to any conclusions.I was thrilled about Ajax, and when the trade was announced I admit there was a moment of disappointment. But that was only for the brief time until I realized that we essentially got Jackson's ceiling in return.

Tifoso
05-02-10, 10:52 AM
I thought this was a Vasquez topic ;)

JackTalkThai
05-02-10, 10:57 AM
I was thrilled about Ajax, and when the trade was announced I admit there was a moment of disappointment. But that was only for the brief time until I realized that we essentially got Jackson's ceiling in return.

Speaking of jumping to conclusions, how in the hell do you know what a rookie's ceiling is going to be ONE MONTH into his pro career? Answer: you don't. Jackson and Granderson are very different players. CG hits for more power and I don't think AJax will ever have that kind of pop but I like the potential of Jackson in just about every other area I can think of.

NYYDragoon
05-02-10, 11:00 AM
Speaking of jumping to conclusions, how in the hell do you know what a rookie's ceiling is going to be ONE MONTH into his pro career? Answer: you don't. Scouting reports? Also, these projections were made based on his performance in the minors, and not after this month in the majors.

Joba-Walkee
05-02-10, 11:12 AM
I thought this was a Vasquez topic ;)
A thread about a Terps player would go in the "Other Sports" subforum, no?

ARoDfan4life
05-02-10, 11:18 AM
I wasn't happy w/ it, but understood why it was done, that said we dealt from a position of weakness and didn't think the what if scenerio.

Jackson was our best closest to MLB OF prospect

While we still have Georgy, Cisco, Jesus, Romine, Higashioka, Sanchez, JR Murphy...that's the catching depth, 3 of these names could have been used to get a better option or Granderson.

So as of now, this deal isn't a smart one, especially when Golson isn't a call up...which means we're weak in the OF depth and stuck w/ Thames/Winn.

Yankeesfan924
05-02-10, 12:07 PM
If Cashman isn't fired in the next 4 hours, 16 minutes and 51 seconds, I will never root for the Yankees again.

PaulOneil2424
05-02-10, 03:00 PM
Funniest part about this trade is, if AJax was playing for the yankees.He'd be the "next bernie" but since hes been traded. it's a 'fluke" lol... Convenient. This could still change, But come on.. Stop being biased.

NewEraYanks2527
05-02-10, 03:03 PM
Is Granderson vs Jackson the new Joba: starter or reliever debate?

dabomb2045
05-02-10, 03:05 PM
Funniest part about this trade is, if AJax was playing for the yankees.He'd be the "next bernie" but since hes been traded. it's a 'fluke" lol... Convenient. This could still change, But come on.. Stop being biased.

It has nothing to do w/bias. Its called basing projections on scouting reports and minor league numbers.

Jackson has a terrible BB/K ratio in his minor league career. He hasnt hit for power at all. One hot month in the majors doesnt change that. He will revert to the player he showed in the minors.

He'll be VERY LUCKY to have a career where he's put up the type of numbers Granderson has the past few seasons.

NYYDragoon
05-02-10, 03:05 PM
Is Granderson vs Jackson the new Joba: starter or reliever debate?No, this one is dumber.

yankee82093
05-02-10, 03:18 PM
Funniest part about this trade is, if AJax was playing for the yankees.He'd be the "next bernie" but since hes been traded. it's a 'fluke" lol... Convenient. This could still change, But come on.. Stop being biased.

It's not bias. Many of us didn't like him very much as a prospect because of the same reasons that we're saying now about how he will struggle in the future.

NYYRules#1
05-02-10, 03:27 PM
It's not bias. Many of us didn't like him very much as a prospect because of the same reasons that we're saying now about how he will struggle in the future.

Exactly. I wasn't high on AJax back when he was in the organization. When he made zero progress in 2009, I let go of any hopes I had of AJax being a top CF.

JackTalkThai
05-02-10, 03:55 PM
It has nothing to do w/bias. Its called basing projections on scouting reports and minor league numbers.

Jackson has a terrible BB/K ratio in his minor league career. He hasnt hit for power at all. One hot month in the majors doesnt change that. He will revert to the player he showed in the minors.

He'll be VERY LUCKY to have a career where he's put up the type of numbers Granderson has the past few seasons.

It's not a matter of luck. I guarantee he won't put up the numbers that Granderson has put up the past few seasons. They're very different players. Curtis will hit for better power and Austin will hit for better average. CG is a .270, 25-30 HR kind of player and Austin is likely a .300, 10-15 HR kind of player. Curtis is more of a run producer and Austin is more of a run scorer.

ring403
05-02-10, 04:04 PM
Right now, I would do the trade again in a heartbeat.
In the long run, I think it's a solid bet, barring injury, that it will end up being a great deal for the Yankees.

merrytexmas
05-02-10, 04:12 PM
Right now, I would do the trade again in a heartbeat.
In the long run, I think it's a solid bet, barring injury, that it will end up being a great deal for the Yankees.

very well said, agreed.

MaximMan121
05-02-10, 04:32 PM
Funniest part about this trade is, if AJax was playing for the yankees.He'd be the "next bernie" but since hes been traded. it's a 'fluke" lol... Convenient. This could still change, But come on.. Stop being biased.

If you read the thread all the way through, you'd have seen the cold, calculated, objective numbers up above. Again, if you adjust Jackson's average for a league average BABIP (ie, remove the luck), his batting average is barely above .200.

teknetic
05-02-10, 04:35 PM
Funniest part about this trade is, if AJax was playing for the yankees.He'd be the "next bernie" but since hes been traded. it's a 'fluke" lol... Convenient. This could still change, But come on.. Stop being biased.

AJax's flaws were well pointed out when he was here. Stop being delusional.

"lol"

machphantom
05-02-10, 04:54 PM
A thread about a Terps player would go in the "Other Sports" subforum, no?
Shoutout to my Terps ftw. If he ends up with the Knicks somehow, I will definitely be getting myself a jersey.

BronxYanks45
05-02-10, 07:33 PM
yes we only had 1 month of baseball, ask this question at the All Star break

delv
05-02-10, 09:10 PM
tbh, while I am not part of the "OHH NO!! AJAX" crowd, Ajax did himself say that he felt pressure in 09 to hit HRs and that he feels better playing in Detroit now and not having to worry about changing his style of hitting. Maybe there's something to that.

snarkerella
05-02-10, 09:14 PM
On not trading Hughes for Santana? Apparently so, if one game is any indication!

Tifoso
05-02-10, 09:47 PM
On not trading Hughes for Santana? Apparently so, if one game is any indication!

He's been solid all season ;)

JackTalkThai
05-02-10, 09:57 PM
AJax's flaws were well pointed out when he was here. Stop being delusional.

"lol"

He also wasn't second in the league in hitting a full month into the season when he was in NY.

Grandy Land
05-02-10, 10:07 PM
Exactly. I wasn't high on AJax back when he was in the organization. When he made zero progress in 2009, I let go of any hopes I had of AJax being a top CF.

That's basically how I felt.

2009 really put him back tremendously.

NYYRules#1
05-02-10, 10:34 PM
Austin Jackson BABIP: .514.

Austin Jackson K%: 31.7%.

Austin Jackson BB%: 8.8%.

azzurribaggio
05-03-10, 01:35 AM
:d....

JeterHomeBoy69
05-03-10, 01:58 AM
Granderson kicks ass!


NOT ALLOWED

KeithF40
05-03-10, 06:37 AM
the level of play that granderson has been at for his career is really like the peak of what you can ecxpect from jackson.

basically this is a routine trade in the mlb. a team that is looking to cut payroll trades the guy in his prime to the team that can afford to increase payroll in exchange for the younger and cheaper version of this player.

it was a good trade. very good chance ajax will be a shane spencer and never do anything in the majors. wayyyyyyy too early to tell.

KeithF40
05-03-10, 06:41 AM
It's one thing to second-guess a trade years down the road, but it's quite another to second-guess a trade for an All-Star after only a month. The Yankees gave up someone who might be a good player for someone who is. It was the right move.

ditto

cliftonite
05-03-10, 06:46 AM
Granderson kicks ass!

[IMG]ht

WTF dude. That was nasty.

Hitman23
05-03-10, 09:57 AM
Granderson kicks ass!as hilarious as I found your picture, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from it. Am I supposed find the one that doesn't fit? Is Waldo hidden somewhere? What's the deal?

NYYRules#1
05-03-10, 10:39 AM
Dude, take that pic down. It's nasty AND it's killing this page.

JackTalkThai
05-03-10, 10:53 AM
Jackson will definitely come back down to Earth here soon but the question remains, just how high will his low Earth orbit be? His ability to stroke the ball is something special. The people thinking that this guy is ever going to be a .220-.240 hitter are out of their minds. He's a good hitter with an elite athlete's body and that's a great combination to have. He's not going to be the next Ichiro or anything but he's far more talented than merely a Shane Spencer type bench player.

AL Quick Pitch: Rookie CF Austin Jackson leading Tigers
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2010/05/al-quick-pitch-rookie-cf-austin-jackson-leading-tigers-/1


Jackson just so happens to be hitting .367 these days, and leads the major leagues with 40 hits, producing three more on Sunday. He also is playing a stellar center field. No offense to Granderson, who just went on the DL, but this trade looks brilliant.

"When is the last time you heard people talk about Curtis Granderson around here?" Leyland told the Detroit Free Press. "And I don't mean that disrespectfully because they should talk about Curtis Granderson. He was a soldier for us. He's a great player. He's very popular and they shouldn't stop talking about him. They should stop making comparisons. It's not fair to Curtis Granderson, let alone Austin Jackson. Curtis has his own identity and Austin is trying to establish his."

roblyo33
05-03-10, 10:07 PM
AJax 3 for 5 tonite with a 2B and a 3B. His luck continues. Up to .377

NYYRules#1
05-03-10, 10:27 PM
What kind of dog crap did this guy step in before the season? The luck parade never stops.

NYYDragoon
05-03-10, 10:33 PM
What kind of dog crap did this guy step in before the season? The luck parade never stops.It's kinda annoying, mainly because it feeds threads like this.

snarkerella
05-03-10, 10:41 PM
OMG he leads MLB in BA! EVERYONE PANIC!

NYYDragoon
05-03-10, 10:42 PM
Just remember Chris Shelton.

ICEBERG18
05-03-10, 10:45 PM
AJax 3 for 5 tonite with a 2B and a 3B. His luck continues. Up to .377


I actually saw the 3B and the 2B and both should have been caught, LOL.

flymick24
05-03-10, 11:00 PM
oh man, can't wait to come back to this thread by the end of the year... so many goodies to choose from

bigjf
05-03-10, 11:06 PM
Granderson kicks ass!


NOT ALLOWED

So, Granderson is not allowed to kick ass then? ;)

Dexter Morgan
05-04-10, 04:34 PM
Kids obviously been lucky, but he can hit....Yankees will regret trading him.

JackTalkThai
05-04-10, 04:50 PM
Jackson named the AL Rookie of the Month...


No Major League hitter at any experience level had as many April base hits as Jackson, who went 36-for-99 for a .364 batting average. Add in 10 walks, and his .422 on-base percentage ranked seventh in the American League.


Jackson has reached base safely in all but one game he has played this season, and he has a base hit in all but three. The latter, hitting safely in 23 of his first 26 career games, is something just two other Tigers have done since 1920 and hadn't been accomplished since Coot Veal in 1958.
Twelve of his April games were multi-hit efforts, tying him for the Major League lead with established greats Derek Jeter and Ichiro Suzuki. His five-hit game April 30 against the Angels was the first from a Tigers rookie since Curtis Granderson in 2005.

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100504&content_id=9785236&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

I'm A Wenner!
05-04-10, 08:56 PM
The beginning of my post was sarcasm. I guess it didn't translate well.

It translated fine. I'm convinced that some people deliberately misunderstand sarcasm and irony just so they have something to get indignant about.

hardrain
05-04-10, 09:14 PM
...in related news, the Yanks have won 8 of their first 9 series....now, back to the bitching and moaning....

StatenIslandYankee
05-04-10, 09:17 PM
I think it was a fair trade on both sides. Nobody got a "better" of the deal. It's pretty even.

mr.roy
05-05-10, 08:18 AM
Jackson named the AL Rookie of the Month...



http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100504&content_id=9785236&vkey=news_det&fext=.jsp&c_id=det

Anyone can see it's all luck. Not one ounce of skill involved.

Zimmer's Helmet
05-05-10, 08:44 AM
Anyone can see it's all luck. Not one ounce of skill involved.

Austin Jackson may or may not go on to have a fine career. Personally, I think his amazing start demonstrates that he's going to be a good one, especially as he matures and cuts down on his strikeouts.

That being said, the Yankees made the deal they had to make in order to acquire Granderson and I for one have no regrets or refuse to second guess. There was no way that the Yankees could have gone into the season with both Jackson and Gardner starting in the OF. Minimal power between both of them, and neither was a proven commodity.

On the other hand the Yankees desperately needed some left handed pop, and they got that in Granderson. It was a good trade for both ballclubs which will prove itself in time.

The second guessers need to relax and wait for more than 30 games to make a conclusion. Give it at least two years before passing judgement.

mr.roy
05-05-10, 11:56 AM
For sure. I wish AJ all the success in the world, but Granderson more.

I don't like second guessing much either when it comes to trades and such.
Second guessing the manager is fun. Especially if you would of done the oppisite of what was done by the manager and what he did went wrong. :D

PinstripeDynasty
05-05-10, 04:01 PM
I think it's perfectly fine to 2nd guess trades.

Just because you are wondering if the Granderson-AJax trade was a good idea or not one month into the season does not make you a Yankee-hater, or a dummy, or panic-stricken fan, or a communist. It's just something to think about and discuss.

It's also possible to think it was a good trade while at the same time questioning whether it was a good trade (or even wishing that we hadn't made the trade now). That's the camp I'm in. Cashman made the right trade, but if we had to do it all over again today...let's just say the Tigers would have to sweeten the deal a little.

People can view their opinions.

primetime714
05-06-10, 12:13 PM
I like Jackson, but I have no regrets. Granderson is going to be awesome for this team for years to come. And I do expect him to consistently outperform Jackson despite what has happened so far this season.

Kennedy is more of a NL starter and I think he will continue to do well in Arizona, but he'd be nothing more than insurance here in NY.

I'm happy both are doing well, but I'm much happier that Curtis Granderson is a Yankee cause I have no doubt he will be a great player for us when he comes back from the DL and for many years in the future.

azzurribaggio
05-07-10, 03:12 AM
I think it's perfectly fine to 2nd guess trades.

Just because you are wondering if the Granderson-AJax trade was a good idea or not one month into the season does not make you a Yankee-hater, or a dummy, or panic-stricken fan, or a communist. It's just something to think about and discuss.

It's also possible to think it was a good trade while at the same time questioning whether it was a good trade (or even wishing that we hadn't made the trade now). That's the camp I'm in. Cashman made the right trade, but if we had to do it all over again today...let's just say the Tigers would have to sweeten the deal a little.

People can view their opinions.

YAH! HATERS!! HAHAHAHA:D

JackTalkThai
05-10-10, 02:29 PM
http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2010/05/tigers_austin_jackson_hopes_ho.html


He has to be the leader in the league's Rookie of the Year race and will be an All-Star shoo-in if he continues even close to this pace.

And now he gets to face the team that traded him for the first time in a regular season game. It could be time to say he wants to show the Yankees what they are missing, but he knows better.

"I'm approaching this game the same as every game," Jackson said. "I'm going to play them like I play everybody else. I prepare for everybody the same way -- like I'm trying to get a win."

Rookie23
05-10-10, 02:50 PM
"I'm approaching this game the same as every game," Jackson said. "I'm going to play them like I play everybody else. I prepare for everybody the same way -- like I'm trying to get a win."

Smart kid. He seems to know how to handle himself and the right things to say. Good for him.

ericns1
05-10-10, 10:17 PM
Better than the jerk who just pitched a perfect game

ericns1
05-10-10, 10:23 PM
Re Zimmers' Helmet - good points but could we argue if they had resigned Damon or Matsui they would have had the left handed power they needed

TheMick@ND
05-10-10, 11:11 PM
I'm sure it's been mentioned but AJax's BABIP is .511, which is kind of ridiculously not sustainable.

yankee82093
05-10-10, 11:16 PM
Re Zimmers' Helmet - good points but could we argue if they had resigned Damon or Matsui they would have had the left handed power they needed

Why is left-handed power an issue for us? The Yankees are fifth in homeruns and fourth in iso. Power is not an issue

BobbytheMurcer
05-11-10, 03:16 PM
I didn't like the trad the day it was made. I simply looked at the back of Grandersons baseball card.

Jackson has an upside and if I listened to the Yankees [up until we traded him] he was going to be a good player.

I'm not afraid to go on record..I did when the deal was made. Time will tell if Cash was right...

teknetic
05-12-10, 07:42 PM
Jackson can't catch up to the high-fastball nor lay off it, at all.

CapitalTigers
05-13-10, 06:07 PM
I'll give the Tiger's fan perspective. First and foremost, I think this trade was best for both teams. Yankees got an All-star centerfielder who they could afford at a league average price. Tigers got a potential all-star, plus a solid reliever. Potential means a lot of things in baseball. Tigers fans currently love Ajax, he is probably one of our best and most consistent players. There was a reason he was #1 in the farm system of the Yankees.

Granderson is and will be a solid human being and baseball player for you guys for years to come. That being said, you also have many guys who can bat consistently from the left side. Granderson plain and simple became a liability for the Tigers against LHP. Also, Boesch has been a prospect looked at for a while. Granderson trade made sense for both teams.

Do Tigers fans think they got an amazing deal and a salary dump? Yes. If Granderson can ever hit above 270 against lhp, then he'll be a bonafide league leader for years to come. At this point, the opposing team as we saw at Comerica for years will always bring in a lefty for a 88% OUT ratio.

Great trade for both parties.

CyYoung4Vazquez
05-13-10, 06:08 PM
Ajax seems like a good guy. Definitely glad that he is playing well. I'm interested to see how well he does once the Tigers go through the AL. You have to believe pitchers are going to make adjustments.

NYYRules#1
05-14-10, 10:20 AM
Ajax seems like a good guy. Definitely glad that he is playing well. I'm interested to see how well he does once the Tigers go through the AL. You have to believe pitchers are going to make adjustments.

Already, the Yankees were throwing him high fastballs, and he looked absolutely inept against them. Obviously the Yankees know him better than any other team in the league, but it's only a matter of time that the rest of the league catches up to this. Once they do, he's probably due for an even bigger tank in his BA than a simple regression to his normal BABIP would suggest.

JackTalkThai
06-04-10, 11:53 AM
Well after going through his first slump of the season, AJax is back mashing again. Hitting .377 over his past 13 games. His average is back up to .342, good for 5th in the league. He also has as many doubles (17) as Cano.

When in the hell is his BABIP (and everything else in his game) going to come back down to Earth??

ynkefan23
06-04-10, 11:59 AM
i think we screwed the pooch on this one.

DaSh 1s
06-04-10, 12:06 PM
What is in this dude's gatorade?

JeterRodriguezSheff
06-04-10, 01:00 PM
Hes a good player. He will probably maintain a good level of play for most of the season.

However he isnt going to be the first player to outperform his talent level in his rookie year and come back down to earth the next. The term sophmore slump exist for a reason, and there are 2 guys with similar skill sets that excelled last year like Julio Buorbon and Nyger Morgan, and they are sucking this season.

I think Jackson is better than those players but he isnt the type of guy he is playing like now. I also think Granderson's career will be clearly superior when all is said and done.

DEADSOX
06-04-10, 01:24 PM
Wow, these AJax threads have become beyond annoying.

Mark19
06-04-10, 01:52 PM
Wow, these AJax threads have become beyond annoying.

No one likes to be reminded that they may have made a poor decision. Granderson can still be a very good player and the trade still could have been a loss for the Yankees.

If Jackson regresses to being a .290/.340/.400 player - his glove, speed and cost still give him quite a bit of value.

Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke aren't impact players but they are young, cheap and productive pieces.

Having a speedy, lefty-swinging .850-OPSing guy like Granderson has been a real asset but by himself, I don't think he'll add up to what we gave away.

teknetic
06-04-10, 01:58 PM
You're overrating Coke and Ian Kennedy had no place in the '10 rotation. Not that I'm surprised or anything.

Mark19
06-04-10, 02:07 PM
You're overrating Coke and Ian Kennedy had no place in the '10 rotation. Not that I'm surprised or anything.

Kennedy may not have had much value to us - seeing as how we weren't going to let him compete for a rotation spot, but as a throw-in, he's done nicely for Arizona and has reminded people of what he did in September 2007.

Coke wasn't a fantastic reliever but he was cheap and held lefties to a .200 Average. There is certainly value in that when you consider what we're paying Damaso Marte.

I'm not saying we got robbed blind, I'm just saying that we may have come up a little short. The team is still 14 games over .500 and Granderson looks to be heating up somewhat. This isn't an Igawa-esque blunder, just something that may not end up in Cashman's favor a few years down the line.

PinstripeDynasty
06-04-10, 02:14 PM
Amazingly, the Vazquez deal now looks like the best offseason move out of the bunch.

2PhonesMaccabee
06-04-10, 02:15 PM
Kennedy may not have had much value to us - seeing as how we weren't going to let him compete for a rotation spot, but as a throw-in, he's done nicely for Arizona and has reminded people of what he did in September 2007.

Coke wasn't a fantastic reliever but he was cheap and held lefties to a .200 Average. There is certainly value in that when you consider what we're paying Damaso Marte.LOOGYs are a dime a dozen, you can find them everywhere.

Mark19
06-04-10, 02:17 PM
Amazingly, the Vazquez deal now looks like the best offseason move out of the bunch.

Won't really know until Vizcaino hits the bigs, he's looking pretty nasty down in A ball though

Mark19
06-04-10, 02:18 PM
LOOGYs are a dime a dozen, you can find them everywhere.

I wonder why we are giving Marte 400,000 dimes a season

NYYRules#1
06-04-10, 02:23 PM
Coke is a run of the mill lefty reliever. He's a dime a dozen.

Kennedy can be a solid #5 starter, but we rarely ever have a true #5 starter in our rotation (as in, what would be a #5 for most teams). Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Vazquez, Hughes, and Chamberlain would all be above him on the starting depth chart. Next year, you can add McAllister to that, subtract Javy, maybe subtract Pettitte, and perhaps add an FA like Lee. In other words, there's really no room Kennedy in the rotation for the forseeable future.

AJax will crash and burn. Once that BABIP comes out of the stratosphere, he's going to look mediocre in a million ways. I'm not a fan of his skillset at all - decent average, insane strikeout rate, doesn't take many walks, doesn't distinguish himself on the basepaths, has no power and isn't seeming to be developing any either. It's a matter of time for that BABIP to nosedive, and for all of his stats to go right with it.

R.V.47
06-04-10, 02:34 PM
Kennedy may not have had much value to us - seeing as how we weren't going to let him compete for a rotation spot, but as a throw-in, he's done nicely for Arizona and has reminded people of what he did in September 2007.

Coke wasn't a fantastic reliever but he was cheap and held lefties to a .200 Average. There is certainly value in that when you consider what we're paying Damaso Marte.

I'm not saying we got robbed blind, I'm just saying that we may have come up a little short. The team is still 14 games over .500 and Granderson looks to be heating up somewhat. This isn't an Igawa-esque blunder, just something that may not end up in Cashman's favor a few years down the line.

We wouldve been paying Marte this year regardless if we had Coke or not. Thats a bad contract by Cashman but doesnt pertain to this situation.

Kennedy had 3 starts in September 2007 not only is that an extremely small sample size it was in September, the months scouts say never to look at when evaluating a young player. Kennedys other appearances with the yankees were injury riddled and disapointing he looked scared to death out there and it showed since he was a control pitcher who seemed to want to no part of going anywhere near the strike zone.

Im happy that hes found some success in Arizona but he had no place here and was definitly expendable especially if it meant getting Granderson.

DEADSOX
06-04-10, 02:39 PM
No one likes to be reminded that they may have made a poor decision. Granderson can still be a very good player and the trade still could have been a loss for the Yankees.

If Jackson regresses to being a .290/.340/.400 player - his glove, speed and cost still give him quite a bit of value.

Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke aren't impact players but they are young, cheap and productive pieces.

Having a speedy, lefty-swinging .850-OPSing guy like Granderson has been a real asset but by himself, I don't think he'll add up to what we gave away.

There are about 4 or 5 different threads on the topic, it has nothing to do with "being reminded", it has to do with beating a dead horse, post about it one of the other 5 AJax mistake threads that are out there. I also think it's funny people make these assements for a guy that's been in the majors for 2 months vs. a guy whos been doing it for years.

Mark19
06-04-10, 02:47 PM
There are about 4 or 5 different threads on the topic, it has nothing to do with "being reminded", it has to do with beating a dead horse, post about it one of the other 5 AJax mistake threads that are out there. I also think it's funny people make these assements for a guy that's been in the majors for 2 months vs. a guy whos been doing it for years.

Hence the term "may have" - 2 months in, it appears that the Tigers "won" the trade

Perhaps we'll have a clearer verdict in 2013, but so far, it does appear that, when factoring in cost and age, Jackson + Kennedy + Coke > Granderson.

Mark19
06-04-10, 02:48 PM
We wouldve been paying Marte this year regardless if we had Coke or not. Thats a bad contract by Cashman but doesnt pertain to this situation.

Kennedy had 3 starts in September 2007 not only is that an extremely small sample size it was in September, the months scouts say never to look at when evaluating a young player. Kennedys other appearances with the yankees were injury riddled and disapointing he looked scared to death out there and it showed since he was a control pitcher who seemed to want to no part of going anywhere near the strike zone.

Im happy that hes found some success in Arizona but he had no place here and was definitly expendable especially if it meant getting Granderson.

Granderson will be a great asset to this team, this doesn't preclude Detroit and Arizona getting back a good amount of productive talent.

R.V.47
06-04-10, 03:01 PM
Granderson will be a great asset to this team, this doesn't preclude Detroit and Arizona getting back a good amount of productive talent.

What Jackson Kennedy and Coke could do for the yankees this year pales in comparison to what Granderson could contribute. Yeah there 3 nice young players although none of them showed all that much in their time with the yankees or in the minors in Jacksons case.

Also, could anyone honestly say they wouldve felt comfortable with a starting OF of Gardner, Jackson and Swisher coming into this year?

teknetic
06-04-10, 03:13 PM
Amazingly, the Vazquez deal now looks like the best offseason move out of the bunch.

Most things look good after a crack binge.

allybear
06-04-10, 03:42 PM
Granderson will be a great asset to this team, this doesn't preclude Detroit and Arizona getting back a good amount of productive talent.

Well, not every trade is going to be a major rip-off for us - usually, you have to give something to get something. I like the trade - if we were rebuilding, I might go the other way with this, but as it is, I'm happy.

Yankee Tripper
06-04-10, 04:43 PM
Hence the term "may have" - 2 months in, it appears that the Tigers "won" the trade

Perhaps we'll have a clearer verdict in 2013, but so far, it does appear that, when factoring in cost and age, Jackson + Kennedy + Coke > Granderson.

That is your opinion and in the end that may be true but at the risk of beating this dead horse some more -

Ganderson age 29, signed reasonably for 3 more years with an option that may or may not be reasonable for a 4th year. Is a career 114 OPS+ hitter who averaged 23 HRs over the last 4 years while playing in a park that supresses HRs and had back to back seasons of 135 & 123 OPS+ just 2 & 3 years ago. He's an 81% sucessful base stealer who also plays plus defense in a premium CF spot.

Jackson - toolsy CF who came to baseball late, strikes out a lot and has limited H potential. A top flight altheet who may in fact blossom into an excleent MLB player but that wasn't certain coming into the year and desipte the excellent start it isn't clear yet he will be a star.

Coke - decent lefty out of the pen but not some one you hold a deal up for.

Kennedy - someone who had been past in the org, had numerous injuries and a believed back of the rotation ceiling - which has value. I wish him well and am happy he is suceeding in AZ but that chances of him having a big role if he was still in NYY is quite small.

Breyean
06-04-10, 05:16 PM
Kennedy - someone who had been past in the org, had numerous injuries and a believed back of the rotation ceiling - which has value. I wish him well and am happy he is suceeding in AZ but that chances of him having a big role if he was still in NYY is quite small.

I live in Arizona. They had a long article in today's paper about how back the team is, and that everyone except Upton and Kennedy are available...


At this point, it's possible the club would consider moving just about anyone, with outfielder Justin Upton, pitcher Ian Kennedy and pitching prospect Jarrod Parker looking like the least likely players to be dealt. Despite his slow start, Upton, only 22, still has loads of potential; Kennedy, who is off to a strong start, won't be a free agent for another five years; and Parker might have top-of-the-rotation potential once he recovers from elbow surgery.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/2010/06/03/20100603arizona-diamondbacks-trades-renovations.html#ixzz0pvQKo8uI


I guess they are very happy with him and see him as a legit part of their future.

gold23
06-04-10, 05:26 PM
That is your opinion and in the end that may be true but at the risk of beating this dead horse some more -

Ganderson age 29, signed reasonably for 3 more years with an option that may or may not be reasonable for a 4th year. Is a career 114 OPS+ hitter who averaged 23 HRs over the last 4 years while playing in a park that supresses HRs and had back to back seasons of 135 & 123 OPS+ just 2 & 3 years ago. He's an 81% sucessful base stealer who also plays plus defense in a premium CF spot.

Jackson - toolsy CF who came to baseball late, strikes out a lot and has limited H potential. A top flight altheet who may in fact blossom into an excleent MLB player but that wasn't certain coming into the year and desipte the excellent start it isn't clear yet he will be a star.

Coke - decent lefty out of the pen but not some one you hold a deal up for.

Kennedy - someone who had been past in the org, had numerous injuries and a believed back of the rotation ceiling - which has value. I wish him well and am happy he is suceeding in AZ but that chances of him having a big role if he was still in NYY is quite small.


Yeah....to me, it's the old hockey adage... do you trade two 25 goal scorers for a 45 goal scorer? Me? I prefer the stud.

Now...the big question is Jackson. Kennedy, while I like him, has mid-level stuff and as such his upside in the AL East is probably a 4th starter or a mediocre 3. Still worthy, but the type you can sign most years on the FA market.

Coke I don't like much at all. Straight fastball, and he needs to mature. HIs upside is a decent lefty out of the pen....but his stuff isn't good enough to close, and you can count on one hand how many consistently good power pitching lefty pitchers there are in relief.

Jackson is obviously the wild card....but unless he develops real power, he's unlikely to be as good as Granderson. There's nothing to lead you to believe he'll hit for this type of average. He's a wonderful defender, and so he's likely to be a nice starting ML OF. But it's SO early to make determinations on any of these guys....

DiMaggio5CF
06-04-10, 05:32 PM
Coke is a run of the mill lefty reliever. He's a dime a dozen.

Yeah, but his value was off-the-charts when we were watching Boone Logan get smacked all over the park.

False1
06-04-10, 09:40 PM
Well after going through his first slump of the season, AJax is back mashing again. Hitting .377 over his past 13 games. His average is back up to .342, good for 5th in the league. He also has as many doubles (17) as Cano.

When in the hell is his BABIP (and everything else in his game) going to come back down to Earth??Just wanted to say your user name is pretty clutch. Jack talk Thai very well.

teknetic
06-04-10, 09:54 PM
Yeah, but his value was off-the-charts when we were watching Boone Logan get smacked all over the park.

Phil Coke 2009:

60IP/4.50ERA/1.5HR/9 :drool:

parkerstrong
06-05-10, 08:16 AM
Yeah, but his value was off-the-charts when we were watching Boone Logan get smacked all over the park.

Oh yeah-he would have helped alot more than Boone "White Flag" Logan. Kennedy has quite a bit of value and the difference between Granderson and Jackson also needs to include their salary. Granderson is better (obviously) but we have to pay him alot more money and gave up extra value. It seems to me its been a pretty even trade because we haven't really needed the SP depth. Kennedy would have been in AAA if he was still with the club.

False1
06-05-10, 11:00 AM
Oh yeah-he would have helped alot more than Boone "White Flag" Logan. Kennedy has quite a bit of value and the difference between Granderson and Jackson also needs to include their salary. Granderson is better (obviously) but we have to pay him alot more money and gave up extra value. It seems to me its been a pretty even trade because we haven't really needed the SP depth. Kennedy would have been in AAA if he was still with the club.I wouldn't assume that. I think he would be with the club right now.

Huktonfonix
06-05-10, 11:56 AM
I live in Arizona. They had a long article in today's paper about how back the team is, and that everyone except Upton and Kennedy are available...



I guess they are very happy with him and see him as a legit part of their future.

Nowhere does it say that. It says they're not going to trade him because he costs nothing.

2PhonesMaccabee
06-05-10, 06:03 PM
I wouldn't assume that. I think he would be with the club right now.But he would have been in the bullpen.

TheYankee
06-05-10, 08:54 PM
I just watched A Jax fly out to right against the Royals. We made the right choice.

False1
06-05-10, 09:01 PM
But he would have been in the bullpen.Probably, but I'd be fine with that considering the state of our bullpen - wouldn't you? He's locating his pitches, getting a decent number of swinging strikes (>9%), xFIP 4.23.. yes, NL West and he has faced some pretty atrocious offenses (Houston .628 OPS as a team!!) but if he were still with the club I would have liked to see him fill Ace's role when he went on the DL and be available if a starter goes down. Again, I've been an IPK supporter all along but I still think the trade was a good deal for the team.

The Korean Kid 23
06-05-10, 10:17 PM
Austin Jackson at best will be the right handed Granderson. That's just my honest opinion.

flymick24
06-06-10, 12:03 AM
you mean granderson after he hurt his groin, right?

yankee82093
06-06-10, 10:24 AM
Mar/April: .412 wOBA, (.530 BABIP!)
May: .331 wOBA (.395 BABIP)
June:.319 wOBA (.350 BABIP)

Sweet regression to the mean.

NYYDragoon
06-06-10, 10:26 AM
Mar/April: .412 wOBA, (.530 BABIP!)
May: .331 wOBA (.395 BABIP)
June:.319 wOBA (.350 BABIP)

Sweet regression to the mean.Sigh.

BTW, we won't know if we made "the right choice" for many seasons from now. Why are some people obsessed with deciding this now?

TheYankee
06-06-10, 03:31 PM
Sigh.

BTW, we won't know if we made "the right choice" for many seasons from now. Why are some people obsessed with deciding this now?I heard Granderson didn't go 4-4 today. I bet Jackson would have.

DrNick
06-06-10, 04:15 PM
I heard Granderson didn't go 4-4 today. I bet Jackson would have.

Jackson catches that ball Wells hit and would have preserved the no-hitter

cyhughes22
06-06-10, 04:29 PM
I heard Granderson didn't go 4-4 today. I bet Jackson would have.

And cured cancer before immaculately conceiving Jesus and then taking Jacoby Ellsbury to the inn to give birth.

JSG
06-06-10, 04:38 PM
i believe so. it's like calling an election before the polls close, but my sense is granderson will continue to improve as the yr goes on and ajax will level out with many Ks and little power. i would make this trade 10/10 times.

aeromac76
06-07-10, 08:26 AM
I live in Arizona. They had a long article in today's paper about how back the team is, and that everyone except Upton and Kennedy are available...



I guess they are very happy with him and see him as a legit part of their future.

I think it has more to do with the fact that is he a young cost contolled pitcher. They certainly think he has talent, and can probably be a major league starter for some time, but if he was approaching arbitratiion he'd be on the table.

Kluivert4Ever
06-07-10, 09:54 AM
Brett Gardner > Austin Jackson
Curtis Granderson >>> Austin Jackson

Dexter Morgan
06-09-10, 07:13 AM
Looks like Jackson's numbers are diving.

.318/.361/.429/.791 and only 1 HR and 14 RBI's

Mark19
06-09-10, 10:47 AM
Looks like Jackson's numbers are diving.

.318/.361/.429/.791 and only 1 HR and 14 RBI's

Since May 1st, .696 OPS with a 5/31 BB/K ratio

Carlos Gomez 2.0?

THEBOSS84
06-09-10, 10:51 AM
Granderson OPS+ 113
Jackson OPS+ 111

I think we'll see a bigger difference as the year goes on.

parkerstrong
06-09-10, 10:52 AM
Brett Gardner > Austin Jackson
Curtis Granderson >>> Austin Jackson

Well, so far Brett Gardner> Curtis Granderson. Higher OBP (by a lot) and higher OPS. Granderson's career best year of OBP is .365. If Gardner finishes the season around .390 with a SLG around 400 (.423 right now) he would be better than Granderson.

THEBOSS84
06-09-10, 10:55 AM
Gardner OPS+ 125...good lord.

Yankee Fan in Boston
06-09-10, 11:03 AM
Gardner OPS+ 125...good lord.

Too bad we can't develop players.

On a related note, Ellsbury hasn't had a year with an OPS+ over 100 since his limited time in 2007

Yankee Tripper
06-09-10, 11:14 AM
Well, so far Brett Gardner> Curtis Granderson. Higher OBP (by a lot) and higher OPS. Granderson's career best year of OBP is .365. If Gardner finishes the season around .390 with a SLG around 400 (.423 right now) he would be better than Granderson.
Granderson does have a 135 OPS+ season to his credit. I'd love gardner to get a few of those too but I doubt he ever does, just not enough power. He'd need to hit like .360 to do it.

Gardner OPS+ 125...good lord.
I am pleaseantly shocked. Baseball prospectus runs an anual contest called HACKING MASS where you basically try to pick the worst OPS guy at each position who will get at least 400+ PAs, I took Gardner as my left fielder this year, I hope he continues to "sink" my team's performance in that contest.

parkerstrong
06-09-10, 11:19 AM
Granderson does have a 135 OPS+ season to his credit. I'd love gardner to get a few of those too but I doubt he ever does, just not enough power. He'd need to hit like .360 to do it.

I am pleaseantly shocked. Baseball prospectus runs an anual contest called HACKING MASS where you basically try to pick the worst OPS guy at each position who will get at least 400+ PAs, I took Gardner as my left fielder this year, I hope he continues to "sink" my team's performance in that contest.

The same Granderson who has an OBP of .336 and SLG of .444? That equals an OPS+ of 135? The Boss (look a few posts above) stated his OBP+ is 113 and seems more reasonable since his total is .780. I wonder what an OPS+ of 100 is if .780=135.

teknetic
06-09-10, 11:21 AM
Granderson does have a 135 OPS+ season to his credit. I'd love gardner to get a few of those too but I doubt he ever does, just not enough power. He'd need to hit like .360 to do it.

I am pleaseantly shocked. Baseball prospectus runs an anual contest called HACKING MASS where you basically try to pick the worst OPS guy at each position who will get at least 400+ PAs, I took Gardner as my left fielder this year, I hope he continues to "sink" my team's performance in that contest.

You picked guys like Melky, Podsednik, and Pierre over him? Yikes.

Amongst MLB LF'ers:

1st in BA (.314)
2nd in OBP (.395, behind Willingham)
1st in Runs (42)
2nd in SB (20)


The same Granderson who has an OBP of .336 and SLG of .444? That equals an OPS+ of 135? The Boss (look a few posts above) stated his OBP+ is 113 and seems more reasonable since his total is .780. I wonder what an OPS+ of 100 is if .780=135.

He said "to his credit" meaning Granderson's posted a 135 OPS+ season.

THEBOSS84
06-09-10, 11:23 AM
The same Granderson who has an OBP of .336 and SLG of .444? That equals an OPS+ of 135? The Boss (look a few posts above) stated his OBP+ is 113 and seems more reasonable since his total is .780. I wonder what an OPS+ of 100 is if .780=135.

YT was saying that Granderson has had an OPS+ OF 135 to his credit IN HIS CAREER.

parkerstrong
06-09-10, 11:28 AM
YT was saying that Granderson has had an OPS+ OF 135 to his credit IN HIS CAREER.

Ahhh, my mistake. I'm sure it happens to everyone (well, not everyone admits them).

Yankee Tripper
06-09-10, 11:28 AM
You picked guys like Melky, Podsednik, and Pierre over him? Yikes.

Amongst MLB LF'ers:

1st in BA (.314)
2nd in OBP (.395, behind Willingham)
1st in Runs (42)
2nd in SB (20)



He said "to his credit" meaning Granderson's posted a 135 OPS+ season.

? - you had to select a team the first week of April - last year I came in 2nd place. I figured even if Gardner hit his SLG would supress his OPS and SBs count for bupkis in HACKING MASS - plus I figured Gardner would get enough PAs - accumulating many PAs in that game is key.


The same Granderson who has an OBP of .336 and SLG of .444? That equals an OPS+ of 135? The Boss (look a few posts above) stated his OBP+ is 113 and seems more reasonable since his total is .780. I wonder what an OPS+ of 100 is if .780=135.

No "too his credit" means it happened in the past - 135 OPS+ in 2007 for Curtis over 676 PAs .302/ .361 / .552 - it was the year he put up 38 2B, 23 3B, 23 HR and stole 26 bags with just 1 CS.

Yankee Tripper
06-09-10, 11:29 AM
Ahhh, my mistake. I'm sure it happens to everyone (well, not everyone admits them).no biggie :)

parkerstrong
06-09-10, 11:30 AM
YT was saying that Granderson has had an OPS+ OF 135 to his credit IN HIS CAREER.

Granderson's career OPS+ is 113....his career best season is 135.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grandcu01.shtml

Yankee Tripper
06-09-10, 11:32 AM
Granderson's career OPS+ is 113....his career best season is 135.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grandcu01.shtml


Granderson does have a 135 OPS+ season to his credit.

But I wasn't ;)

THEBOSS84
06-09-10, 11:33 AM
Granderson's career OPS+ is 113....his career best season is 135.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grandcu01.shtml

I meant that. Poor wording by me.

teknetic
06-09-10, 11:39 AM
? - you had to select a team the first week of April - last year I came in 2nd place. I figured even if Gardner hit his SLG would supress his OPS and SBs count for bupkis in HACKING MASS - plus I figured Gardner would get enough PAs - accumulating many PAs in that game is key.

Oh, just sayin' that Pods and Melky aren't very good. He's always been a high OBP guy in the minors.

parkerstrong
06-09-10, 11:41 AM
I meant that. Poor wording by me.

No worries....we are all on the same page lol

I don't think Gardner can have a season of OPS+135 because he doesn't have the power, but his OBP/speed gives him more value than what is defined in OPS+.

flymick24
06-09-10, 02:59 PM
it's funny to see all the people in the first few pages of this thread scamper away like little roaches

now i don't doubt that jackson will be a solid player, but he'll never be curtis granderson... he'll hit .300, but it'll be a rather empty .300

PaulOneil2424
06-09-10, 03:12 PM
Did i miss the memo? Or is that still austin jackson the minnium baseball wage guy batting .318 and saving perfect games with willi mays like running catches in HUGE detroit stadium?

Correct me if i'm wrong,

Metroidman
06-09-10, 03:13 PM
Did i miss the memo? Or is that still austin jackson the minnium baseball wage guy batting .318 and saving perfect games with willi mays like running catches in HUGE detroit stadium?

Correct me if i'm wrong,

What perfect game </Bud Selig>

snarkerella
06-09-10, 03:36 PM
Dwayne Wise for the Hall of Fame!!!!

I don't understand the idea that every deal needs to be a Swisher-like steal for it to be even a good deal at all. I think Austin Jackson can be a good player. I also think Curtis Granderson can be great for the Yankees, and I would be very happy if that's the case, no matter what Jackson, Kennedy, and Coke are doing.

flymick24
06-09-10, 04:28 PM
jackson will be a solid player, but if you have a chance to trade him for someone like granderson, i think you have to do it every time

teknetic
06-09-10, 05:17 PM
it's funny to see all the people in the first few pages of this thread scamper away like little roaches

now i don't doubt that jackson will be a solid player, but he'll never be curtis granderson... he'll hit .300, but it'll be a rather empty .300

Not so smart people make knee-jerk reactions, don't return for their serving of crow; this isn't much of a surprise.


Did i miss the memo? Or is that still austin jackson the minnium baseball wage guy batting .318 and saving perfect games with willi mays like running catches in HUGE detroit stadium?

Correct me if i'm wrong,

Egad.

VinnyTheMick
06-09-10, 05:34 PM
Did i miss the memo? Or is that still austin jackson the minnium baseball wage guy batting .318 and saving perfect games with willi mays like running catches in HUGE detroit stadium?

Correct me if i'm wrong,


perfect games? You mean 1 perfect game.

mememe
06-09-10, 10:40 PM
Willi lol

primetime714
06-10-10, 09:40 AM
jackson will be a solid player, but if you have a chance to trade him for someone like granderson, i think you have to do it every time

Agreed. A lot of people who are against this trade really don't understand how good of a player Curtis Granderson is. He's one of the few true 5-tool players in baseball.

Jackson will continue to be a nice CF and leadoff hitter, but he'll never be as good as Granderson. IPK is a nice player in the NL and could probably be a solid pitcher in the AL too, but ultimately wouldn't have been much more than insurance when you consider our rotation. Coke is an ok lefty reliever, nothing more. All of that for a guy that is one of the best at his position and is still in the midst of his prime years. Seems like we did quite well.

mal1219
06-10-10, 09:46 AM
I really like Curtis Granderson and how his capabilities make us a better ballclub. On the side, I like how he is off the field. I think it's a pretty fair trade for the Yanks and the Tigers. Granderson is starting to show what he can do after returning from the injury and A-jax has taken full advantage of the chance in the show. Just ask yourself, if we didn't make the trade for Granderson, how likely would it have been that the outfield would be A-jax, Gardner and Swisher. At that point, you kind of have to go after Damon. A-jax would've still been in the minors IMO.

False1
06-10-10, 11:22 AM
Incidentally, the trade has worked out so far for AZ also. Kennedy is pitching extremely well (141 ERA+, 1.17 WHIP) and I think Jackson will (and has started to recently) pitch much better as the year goes on (4.01 xFIP). Scherzer has been a mess with Detroit, and although Schlereth is blowing AAA guys away he's also pushing 7.2 BB/9.

I said it when this trade was announced... may be the rare three way deal where all three teams make out ok.

R.V.47
06-10-10, 12:26 PM
Incidentally, the trade has worked out so far for AZ also. Kennedy is pitching extremely well (141 ERA+, 1.17 WHIP) and I think Jackson will (and has started to recently) pitch much better as the year goes on (4.01 xFIP). Scherzer has been a mess with Detroit, and although Schlereth is blowing AAA guys away he's also pushing 7.2 BB/9.

I said it when this trade was announced... may be the rare three way deal where all three teams make out ok.

All 3 teams got what they wanted. The yankees wanted to solidify CF, a position thats basically been a revolving door since Bernie retired. Detroit wanted to cut Grandersons salary and the D Backs wanted another veteran to go in their rotation with Haren and at some point Webb.

So far its worked out well for all teams.

I'm A Wenner!
06-10-10, 01:00 PM
If Jackson hits .300 for the season, I'll be very surprised.

flymick24
06-10-10, 01:02 PM
he can do it... it's just that it'll be a very empty .300, and his OBP and OPS will be sub-par

dabomb2045
06-10-10, 01:19 PM
Did i miss the memo? Or is that still austin jackson the minnium baseball wage guy batting .318 and saving perfect games with willi mays like running catches in HUGE detroit stadium?

Correct me if i'm wrong,

Who's this Willi Mays guy?

dabomb2045
06-10-10, 01:24 PM
Since the end of April:

.282/.312/.376/.688

0 HR, 7 RBI. 5 walks, 32 strikeouts. Maybe we should hold off on the HOF plaque for a little while.

I'm A Wenner!
06-10-10, 01:26 PM
he can do it... it's just that it'll be a very empty .300, and his OBP and OPS will be sub-par

His batting average is the result of a very flukey BABIP. It's not sustainable. He's not going to hit an empty .300, he's going to hit an empty .285.

NYYRules#1
06-10-10, 02:39 PM
Since the end of April:

.282/.312/.376/.688

0 HR, 7 RBI. 5 walks, 32 strikeouts. Maybe we should hold off on the HOF plaque for a little while.

And the BABIP gods decide to have mercy on us and shut up the "AJax iz Hall of Famer... Yanx should of kept him and made him CF like Bernie and Mickey!!!1!!1" people.

Thank you, BABIP gods, for your mercy. (Can you also please have some mercy on the Teixeiras of the world while you're at it?)

GordonGecko
06-10-10, 02:41 PM
Dumping Ajax was an all time stupid move by Cashman and will come back to haunt him for many years

THEBOSS84
06-10-10, 02:43 PM
Dumping Ajax was an all time stupid move by Cashman and will come back to haunt him for many years

Is this a serious post?

False1
06-10-10, 03:02 PM
Dumping Ajax was an all time stupid move by Cashman and will come back to haunt him for many yearsHe didn't "dump" him, he acquired a CF in his prime with proven, strong offense/defense/baserunning skills in return. Jackson may develop into a good CF, but I really struggle seeing this turning into an "all-time stupid move" scenario even if he does.

GordonGecko
06-10-10, 03:05 PM
He didn't "dump" him, he acquired a CF in his prime with proven, strong offense/defense/baserunning skills in return. Jackson may develop into a good CF, but I really struggle seeing this turning into an "all-time stupid move" scenario even if he does.
Granderson is a good player, but Austin Jackson will be a better player over his career and the Yankees would have had him for next to nothing in the early years. That means less money to go after another pitcher or a bat, and yes the Yankees are on a $200M budget. I don't have any problem with getting Granderson, but like I said giving up ajax is an all time stupid move

NYYDragoon
06-10-10, 03:08 PM
Granderson is a good player, but Austin Jackson will be a better player over his career and the Yankees would have had him for next to nothing in the early years. That means less money to go after another pitcher or a bat, and yes the Yankees are on a $200M budget. I don't have any problem with getting Granderson, but like I said giving up ajax is an all time stupid moveWow. So happy you're not a GM. But you're apparently a fortune teller?

GordonGecko
06-10-10, 03:17 PM
But you're apparently a fortune teller?
Yes, I predicted Gardner could be a consistent .300 MLB hitter since he came up, and he's well on his way. GM's make decisions based on their opinion of a guy's talent all the time, cashman will have failed on this one - but time will tell won't it

Yankee Tripper
06-10-10, 03:17 PM
Granderson is a good player, but Austin Jackson will be a better player over his career and the Yankees would have had him for next to nothing in the early years. That means less money to go after another pitcher or a bat, and yes the Yankees are on a $200M budget. I don't have any problem with getting Granderson, but like I said giving up ajax is an all time stupid move
That's a highly debatable statement and one that I don't agree with. I think Jackson will be a good player but lacks the plate discipline to be true leadoff hitter and lack the power potential to rival what garanderson has already done.

This isn't a knock on A-jax who I do think will be a solid MLB player but I would seriously doubt that A-jax will ever post a season better than what Garnaderson already did in 2007.

Futhermore over the next 4 years, which is the period the Yankees potentially control granderson, I would expect Granderson to vastly out produce A-jax over that period. And since the Yanks are a team built to win now, short term potential over a 2-3 year period is far more valuable that long term potential.

Prior to A-jax going 0-3 today with a BB and K his season has looked something like this -
he came out of the gates like a bat out of hell and hit a high point on 5/4, after goping 3-5 that day his slash line sat at a gaudy
.376 / .430 / .521
since then he's had a fairly steady decline in his numbers and ebtering today his line was
.316 / .360 / .426

And for June he's been particulalry brutal to open the month as he's batting just .225 with 8 Ks v only 1 BB as the league adjust to his inability to recognize and handle off-speed pitches.

Again this isn't to knock A-jax who I do think will be a fine player, I just don't see him as a future MLB super star.

Yankee Fan in Boston
06-10-10, 03:21 PM
Yes, I predicted Gardner could be a consistent .300 MLB hitter since he came up, and he's well on his way. GM's make decisions based on their opinion of a guy's talent all the time, cashman will have failed on this one - but time will tell won't it

Actually, he's well on his way to batting below .300 if you look at his splits. It's telling that, even with Jackson's insane start, both players share an OPS+ of 110 right now. I like Jackson, but at the end of the day I think he'll be fortunate if he can match Granderson when he hits his peak years.

teknetic
06-10-10, 03:25 PM
Granderson is a good player, but Austin Jackson will be a better player over his career and the Yankees would have had him for next to nothing in the early years. That means less money to go after another pitcher or a bat, and yes the Yankees are on a $200M budget. I don't have any problem with getting Granderson, but like I said giving up ajax is an all time stupid move

This is based on absolutely nothing other than some silly hard-on for a rookie whose ceiling isn't even Curtis Granderson.

Metroidman
06-10-10, 03:28 PM
Austin Jackson OPS = .779

mitch300
06-10-10, 03:33 PM
Just ask yourself, if we didn't make the trade for Granderson, how likely would it have been that the outfield would be A-jax, Gardner and Swisher. At that point, you kind of have to go after Damon. A-jax would've still been in the minors IMO.
Exactly. No way would A-jax have been on the opening day roster.That's not the Yankee way.

Yankee Fan in Boston
06-10-10, 03:36 PM
Exactly. No way would A-jax have been on the opening day roster.That's not the Yankee way.

They might have had him compete in ST for time with Brett Gardner, but that's really the only I can see him having worked his way on to the team. It doesn't seem likely they ever would have two OFs with so little power.

mitch300
06-10-10, 03:39 PM
They might have had him compete in ST for time with Brett Gardner, but that's really the only I can see him having worked his way on to the team. It doesn't seem likely they ever would have two OFs with so little power.
Very likely. However, some believe that if the Yanks didn't make the trade that he would have been the starting centerfielder for the Yanks on opening day.

Yankee Fan in Boston
06-10-10, 03:44 PM
Very likely. However, some believe that if the Yanks didn't make the trade that he would have been the starting centerfielder for the Yanks on opening day.

Given his AAA season last year, there's no way he'd have been given that job outright. It's possible they would have brought in someone like Mike Cameron (or pushed harder to bring back Damon) and had the three guys compete for two spots, but this isn't a team that is just going to hand over jobs to guys who haven't proven themselves yet.

2PhonesMaccabee
06-10-10, 03:47 PM
Yes, I predicted Gardner could be a consistent .300 MLB hitter since he came up, and he's well on his way. GM's make decisions based on their opinion of a guy's talent all the time, cashman will have failed on this one - but time will tell won't itBrett Gardner career BA .276

JL25and3
06-10-10, 04:36 PM
Who's this Willi Mays guy?His full name is actually Willi Mays Vanilli. Milli's brother.

roblyo33
06-10-10, 04:37 PM
His full name is actually Willi Mays Vanilli. Milli's brother.

Did you lip sync that??

HelloNewman
06-10-10, 04:48 PM
His full name is actually Willi Mays Vanilli. Milli's brother.Blame it on the rain delay.

GordonGecko
06-10-10, 04:54 PM
Brett Gardner career BA .276
:lol: :wtf: newsflash: he doesn't have a "career" yet, 206 games played total

dabomb2045
06-10-10, 05:34 PM
Granderson is a good player, but Austin Jackson will be a better player over his career and the Yankees would have had him for next to nothing in the early years. That means less money to go after another pitcher or a bat, and yes the Yankees are on a $200M budget. I don't have any problem with getting Granderson, but like I said giving up ajax is an all time stupid move

Where is this evidence that Jackson will be "better" then Granderson over his career? I dont EVER see Jackson coming close to what Granderson did in 2007. I dont even see him touching the year he had last season. Its no coincidence that after a fluky hot month of April, he's fallen back to Earth and has basically looked like the same player who got manhandled by AAA pitching last year.

Jackson will prob hit for a decent average, will give you some steals and great defense. Thats it. He will not hit for power, he isnt gonna walk much, and will strikeout a ton. Low OBP + high K rate + lack of HR power = No thanks.

Dexter Morgan
06-10-10, 05:46 PM
My problem with Granderson is... he doesn't get on base much either....and it's not like doesn't strike out a lot....he does

Zimmer's Helmet
06-10-10, 05:53 PM
My problem with Granderson is... he doesn't get on base much either.

Once Jackson's AVG drops down to .275, you won't be crazy about his OBP either.

Defensively, both A-Jax and Granderson are solid.

From a hitting standpoint it basically boils down to this : Would you rather have a CF who can hit 25-35 HR or a CF who can hit 5?

False1
06-10-10, 06:39 PM
Jackson will prob hit for a decent average, will give you some steals and great defense. Thats it. He will not hit for power, he isnt gonna walk much, and will strikeout a ton. Low OBP + high K rate + lack of HR power = No thanks.Which is more than fine considering his position and his cost. From a value perspective Detroit will probably end up happy with this deal. I'm rooting for Jackson, not knocking him, but I think people that are saying this will be "the worst deal of Cashman's career!!!11!" are overreacting in a biggish way. People either really underestimate what Granderson's abilities are or are ultra-optimistic on Jackson.

False1
06-10-10, 06:42 PM
Duplicate post, sorry.

I'm A Wenner!
06-10-10, 07:33 PM
My problem with Granderson is... he doesn't get on base much either....and it's not like doesn't strike out a lot....he does

Granderson is an above-average OBP guy with very good power who plays a good CF and is a plus baserunner. If you don't think that's more valuable than Austin Jackson, then I don't know what to tell you.

murpjf88
06-10-10, 08:59 PM
Granderson is an above-average OBP guy with very good power who plays a good CF and is a plus baserunner. If you don't think that's more valuable than Austin Jackson, then I don't know what to tell you.

Are you living in the past? Ajax can play the field better than Granderson and can steal bases too. Granderson has more power but for those people that want to crap on Ajax:

Curtis Granderson BA: .252 OBP: .333 babip: .289 HR: 4 RBI's: 16 k%: 21.8

Project those numbers throughout the course of a year. Oh, sure, he's shown glimpses here and their, but they don't last long.

Sorry, that's garbage.

kan_t
06-10-10, 09:31 PM
Austin Jackson OPS = .779
Granderson OPS= .789

I'm A Wenner!
06-10-10, 09:32 PM
Are you living in the past? Ajax can play the field better than Granderson and can steal bases too. Granderson has more power but for those people that want to crap on Ajax:

Curtis Granderson BA: .252 OBP: .333 babip: .289 HR: 4 RBI's: 16 k%: 21.8

Project those numbers throughout the course of a year. Oh, sure, he's shown glimpses here and their, but they don't last long.

Sorry, that's garbage.

I'm living in the guy's current ability level. Granderson is a much, much better player than Jackson. And we definitely don't have enough data at this point to definitively determine the quality of Jackson's defense.

teknetic
06-10-10, 09:41 PM
Are you living in the past? Ajax can play the field better than Granderson and can steal bases too. Granderson has more power but for those people that want to crap on Ajax:

Curtis Granderson BA: .252 OBP: .333 babip: .289 HR: 4 RBI's: 16 k%: 21.8

Project those numbers throughout the course of a year. Oh, sure, he's shown glimpses here and their, but they don't last long.

Sorry, that's garbage.

Who has the better OPS right now? Who also missed nearly a month?

murpjf88
06-10-10, 09:59 PM
Who has the better OPS right now? Who also missed nearly a month?


I realize he's missed nearly a month but that's about all he's got going for him. We've been waiting around for Tex for a little over two months- still nothing.

10 points difference in OPS can flip-flop nightly.

kan_t
06-10-10, 10:01 PM
10 points difference in OPS can flip-flop nightly.
Yes, but one is coming down from .900 OPS, another one is going up from .500 OPS.

kan_t
06-10-10, 10:05 PM
Austin Jackson

March and April: .364/.422/.495
May: .297/.336/.395
June so far: .225/.244/.300

False1
06-10-10, 11:06 PM
Are you living in the past? Ajax can play the field better than Granderson and can steal bases too. Granderson has more power but for those people that want to crap on Ajax:

Curtis Granderson BA: .252 OBP: .333 babip: .289 HR: 4 RBI's: 16 k%: 21.8

Project those numbers throughout the course of a year. Oh, sure, he's shown glimpses here and their, but they don't last long.

Sorry, that's garbage.Wow, you continue to outdo yourself. If you think Granderson is garbage, you're delusional.

Those numbers above play out to ~20 HR and 80 RBI in a full season FWIW, and if he continues to hit like he has in May and June he will easily outproduce those numbers on a pro-rated basis.

Jax Teller
06-10-10, 11:22 PM
This place doesn't fail to surprise me.

murpjf88
06-11-10, 12:47 AM
Wow, you continue to outdo yourself. If you think Granderson is garbage, you're delusional.

Those numbers above play out to ~20 HR and 80 RBI in a full season FWIW, and if he continues to hit like he has in May and June he will easily outproduce those numbers on a pro-rated basis.

It really doesn't surprise me that you once again misinterpreted my post. I said those numbers are garbage. Those projected numbers are a little off. Try 15 Hrs and 65 Rbi's with 107 K's. Even at that, those numbers are a far cry from his projected 30 to 35 homers and 100+ RBI's. I'm not saying he won't start producing, but don't kid yourself. Those numbers are crap. I won't even bother getting into his numbers with runners on (.219) and with RISP (.237) because the entire teams seems to struggle in those situations.

But I do see a marked improvement against LHP which is encouraging: (Shhhh- I got an idea, maybe we should pro-rate that .227 to make it look better.)
2009 .183 BA
2010 .227 BA

His last 7 days, his batting average is only .211 (4-19). This just means that like the entire Yankee lineup, he got fat on Cleveland and Baltimore pitching at the stadium. You'll have to excuse me if I don't get yippie skippie over May seeing as how he only had 15 total AB's (5-15). Could you have found a smaller sample size? Once again, there is a lot of season to be played and he may pull through, but I need to see a lot more consistency before I go pro-rating Grandy.

Denial is the first step toward acceptance.

Joba-Walkee
06-11-10, 01:20 AM
Who's this Willi Mays guy?
I believe he meant Wilburt Maize

False1
06-11-10, 02:33 AM
It really doesn't surprise me that you once again misinterpreted my post. I said those numbers are garbage. Those projected numbers are a little off. Try 15 Hrs and 65 Rbi's with 107 K's.He's had 119 at bats, 4 HR and 16 RBI. That's a HR every 30 at bats, and an RBI every 7.7 at bats. You said "full season"... 600 AB's with those rates gets you 20/80. So no, Pythagoras, they're not off. :doh:

Even at that, those numbers are a far cry from his projected 30 to 35 homers and 100+ RBI's.But Mrs. Jackson, they are also a far cry from the 3 HR and 35 RBI pace that Austin is on using his rates and the same assumed 600 ABs. And I don't get too wrapped up in counting stats.:doh:
I'm not saying he won't start producing, but don't kid yourself. Those numbers are crap. I won't even bother getting into his numbers with runners on (.219) and with RISP (.237) because the entire teams seems to struggle in those situations.That's probably a good idea, since not including the triple Granderson laced in last night's game he has a .702 OPS with RISP compared to Jackson's .681 in those same scenarios. And one is tredning up while the other is trending down.:doh:

But I do see a marked improvement against LHP which is encouraging: (Shhhh- I got an idea, maybe we should pro-rate that .227 to make it look better.)
2009 .183 BA
2010 .227 BABwahahaha... you were the one that suggested prorating with your "full season" comment, and you can't prorate a rate funny guy. Oh, and since you went there: Jackson OPS against LHP is .488, Granderson OPS against LHP is .647. :doh:

His last 7 days, his batting average is only .211 (4-19).Jackson's last 7 days produced a .087 / .087 / .087 line. 2 singles, no walks, 6 K's in 23 AB's.:doh:

This just means that like the entire Yankee lineup, he got fat on Cleveland and Baltimore pitching at the stadium.So far in June, Jackson has had a homestand against Cleveland, a 3 game set in KC and is currently playing the White Sox. Pitching powerhouses to be sure. FWIW, he's only faced 2 AL East teams so far this year... the Yankes (.125 / .125 / .125) and Boston (.111 / .273 / .111). :doh:

You'll have to excuse me if I don't get yippie skippie over May seeing as how he only had 15 total AB's (5-15). Could you have found a smaller sample size?Uh, I said "in May and June"... or in other words, since he returned from the DL. And didn't you just bust out with Gradnerson's BA over the last 7 days? Bwahaha - I guess I couldn't have found a smaller sample size, but you sure didn't have any trouble with it.:doh:

Once again, there is a lot of season to be played and he may pull through, but I need to see a lot more consistency before I go pro-rating Grandy.

Denial is the first step toward acceptance.This isn't denial Mrs. Jackson. I used data and facts to disprove every single point you tried to make in your smarmy little post. Spend a little less time writing letters to Austin in red lipstick and a little more time thinking this all through. Thanks.:doh:

mememe
06-11-10, 03:30 AM
Ouch!

I'm A Wenner!
06-11-10, 08:24 AM
http://thehostages.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/bitchslap.jpg

DEADSOX
06-11-10, 08:31 AM
False1, that may have been the best response to any post ever on the internet.

delv
06-11-10, 08:48 AM
wow. :lol:

effdamets
06-11-10, 08:55 AM
Awesome. Totally awesome.

(is there a smilie for b*tch slap?)

AnA-bombforA-rod
06-11-10, 09:45 AM
Nice job False1.

Yankee Tripper
06-11-10, 10:35 AM
This isn't denial Mrs. Jackson. I used data and facts to disprove every single point you tried to make in your smarmy little post. Spend a little less time writing letters to Austin in red lipstick and a little more time thinking this all through. Thanks.:doh:
:roflmao:

THEBOSS84
06-11-10, 10:38 AM
False1 is my new favorite poster.

NYYDragoon
06-11-10, 10:46 AM
Holy sh!t, Brian :roflmao:.

mal1219
06-11-10, 11:00 AM
Can we nominate this for post of the year?

NYYDragoon
06-11-10, 11:02 AM
Can we nominate this for post of the year?
Already done: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.php?p=6834047&postcount=87

NYYRules#1
06-11-10, 11:10 AM
Best. Post. Ever.

snarkerella
06-11-10, 11:46 AM
Owned. :lol:

murpjf88
06-11-10, 01:49 PM
He's had 119 at bats, 4 HR and 16 RBI. That's a HR every 30 at bats, and an RBI every 7.7 at bats. You said "full season"... 600 AB's with those rates gets you 20/80. So no, Pythagoras, they're not off.

Tweeting Homer Simpson, Turn off your internal calculator before you have a brain bleed. Grandy won't touch 600 AB's. Unless your under the assumption he'll average 4.7 plate appearances with no walks, sacrafices, and NO days off. Pass that memo along to Girardi. He'll be lucky if he trips 510.


But Mrs. Jackson, they are also a far cry from the 3 HR and 35 RBI pace that Austin is on using his rates and the same assumed 600 ABs. And I don't get too wrapped up in counting stats

I wouldn't expect anything less. It isn't the job of the leadoff hitter to smack Home runs and drive in runs. I also expect a lot more out of Grandy since he's an "all-star" caliber player and Jackson's a good for nothing rookie that in all rights, was brought up to the majors prematurely.


That's probably a good idea, since not including the triple Granderson laced in last night's game he has a .702 OPS with RISP compared to Jackson's .681 in those same scenarios. And one is tredning up while the other is trending down.

Negligible at best. Those numbers can flip-flop within a day or two. By now, you should have some sense of mind that rookies are unpredictable. Austin's numbers have fluctuated all season long. This is one trend which will probably continue. I haven't seen any indication that Grandy's trend will continue to increase. Keep in mind of Granderson's fast start (15/46, .313 BA) Since (16/71, .225 BA) I think your confusing hot streak against basement dwellers with trend.


Bwahahaha... you were the one that suggested prorating with your "full season" comment, and you can't prorate a rate funny guy. Oh, and since you went there: Jackson OPS against LHP is .488, Granderson OPS against LHP is .647


OPS seems to be your collective answer for everything. Its would be pretty embarrassing if Ajax had a higher .OPS seeing as how Granderson is a proven power hitter and Ajax is a linedrive single's hitter at this point in his career. But if it makes you feel better to crap all over an unpolished rookie with 2+ months of ML experience, whose still learning the pitchers and the league to a veteran all-star caliber player in the prime of his career, you have at it. Whatever tickles your fancy. And in the real world, how is .647 good?


Jackson's last 7 days produced a .087 / .087 / .087 line. 2 singles, no walks, 6 K's in 23 AB's. So far in June, Jackson has had a homestand against Cleveland, a 3 game set in KC and is currently playing the White Sox. Pitching powerhouses to be sure. FWIW, he's only faced 2 AL East teams so far this year... the Yankes (.125 / .125 / .125) and Boston (.111 / .273 / .111).
Again, trying to exploit an unpolished rookie to compensate for Granderson's shortcomings. If it makes you feel better on the inside, then by all means, do your worst. Based on 25 AB's against Bos(9)/NY(16), your conclusion is what? he stinks?
Ask Grandy what it feels like to hit against CHW (2/16), Tor(0/8) or Angels(4/21), three pitching powerhouses at there finest.


Uh, I said "in May and June"... or in other words, since he returned from the DL. And didn't you just bust out with Gradnerson's BA over the last 7 days? Bwahaha - I guess I couldn't have found a smaller sample size, but you sure didn't have any trouble with it.

His May/June numbers are based on 45 AB's after last night. I split them to make it easier for you but that apparently wasn't easy enough. To break that down further, he's only had 42 AB's since the injury. Good luck finding a trend in 42 AB's Teix was 22/67 .328 BA between May 1 and May 17.. Where is that trend now?

And needless to say, its pretty typical that you once again you misinterpreted my post. I smell a theme here. I simply said for those people who make light of Jackson's dwindling numbers on offense, Grandy's numbers are nothing to get excited about. You continue to kick the bucket as if this were some sort of contest between Ajax and Granderson. Truth be told, Grandy should be mopping the floor with Ajax and he's not. So far, Grandy's put up all-star caliber squat.

Your entire rebuttal was a :doh:. Nothing more than narcissistic garbage. You need to crawl out from under your rock and catch a breeze once in a while.

Anger is the second step toward acceptance. Are we there yet?

Beyle
06-11-10, 01:54 PM
Uh oh.

/Rainman

JeterRodriguezSheff
06-11-10, 02:10 PM
He's had 119 at bats, 4 HR and 16 RBI. That's a HR every 30 at bats, and an RBI every 7.7 at bats. You said "full season"... 600 AB's with those rates gets you 20/80. So no, Pythagoras, they're not off. :doh:
But Mrs. Jackson, they are also a far cry from the 3 HR and 35 RBI pace that Austin is on using his rates and the same assumed 600 ABs. And I don't get too wrapped up in counting stats.:doh:That's probably a good idea, since not including the triple Granderson laced in last night's game he has a .702 OPS with RISP compared to Jackson's .681 in those same scenarios. And one is tredning up while the other is trending down.:doh:
Bwahahaha... you were the one that suggested prorating with your "full season" comment, and you can't prorate a rate funny guy. Oh, and since you went there: Jackson OPS against LHP is .488, Granderson OPS against LHP is .647. :doh:
Jackson's last 7 days produced a .087 / .087 / .087 line. 2 singles, no walks, 6 K's in 23 AB's.:doh:
So far in June, Jackson has had a homestand against Cleveland, a 3 game set in KC and is currently playing the White Sox. Pitching powerhouses to be sure. FWIW, he's only faced 2 AL East teams so far this year... the Yankes (.125 / .125 / .125) and Boston (.111 / .273 / .111). :doh:
Uh, I said "in May and June"... or in other words, since he returned from the DL. And didn't you just bust out with Gradnerson's BA over the last 7 days? Bwahaha - I guess I couldn't have found a smaller sample size, but you sure didn't have any trouble with it.:doh:
This isn't denial Mrs. Jackson. I used data and facts to disprove every single point you tried to make in your smarmy little post. Spend a little less time writing letters to Austin in red lipstick and a little more time thinking this all through. Thanks.:doh:

Complete and utter annihilation. It is sort of like watching Strasburg pitch against the Pirates, or better yet Masterson against the Red Sox.

JeterRodriguezSheff
06-11-10, 02:15 PM
Tweeting Homer Simpson, Turn off your internal calculator before you have a brain bleed. Grandy won't touch 600 AB's. Unless your under the assumption he'll average 4.7 plate appearances with no walks, sacrafices, and NO days off. Pass that memo along to Girardi. He'll be lucky if he trips 510.



I wouldn't expect anything less. It isn't the job of the leadoff hitter to smack Home runs and drive in runs. I also expect a lot more out of Grandy since he's an "all-star" caliber player and Jackson's a good for nothing rookie that in all rights, was brought up to the majors prematurely.



Negligible at best. Those numbers can flip-flop within a day or two. By now, you should have some sense of mind that rookies are unpredictable. Austin's numbers have fluctuated all season long. This is one trend which will probably continue. I haven't seen any indication that Grandy's trend will continue to increase. Keep in mind of Granderson's fast start (15/46, .313 BA) Since (16/71, .225 BA) I think your confusing hot streak against basement dwellers with trend.



OPS seems to be your collective answer for everything. Its would be pretty embarrassing if Ajax had a higher .OPS seeing as how Granderson is a proven power hitter and Ajax is a linedrive single's hitter at this point in his career. But if it makes you feel better to crap all over an unpolished rookie with 2+ months of ML experience, whose still learning the pitchers and the league to a veteran all-star caliber player in the prime of his career, you have at it. Whatever tickles your fancy. And in the real world, how is .647 good?


Again, trying to exploit an unpolished rookie to compensate for Granderson's shortcomings. If it makes you feel better on the inside, then by all means, do your worst. Based on 25 AB's against Bos(9)/NY(16), your conclusion is what? he stinks?
Ask Grandy what it feels like to hit against CHW (2/16), Tor(0/8) or Angels(4/21), three pitching powerhouses at there finest.



His May/June numbers are based on 45 AB's after last night. I split them to make it easier for you but that apparently wasn't easy enough. To break that down further, he's only had 42 AB's since the injury. Good luck finding a trend in 42 AB's Teix was 22/67 .328 BA between May 1 and May 17.. Where is that trend now?

And needless to say, its pretty typical that you once again you misinterpreted my post. I smell a theme here. I simply said for those people who make light of Jackson's dwindling numbers on offense, Grandy's numbers are nothing to get excited about. You continue to kick the bucket as if this were some sort of contest between Ajax and Granderson. Truth be told, Grandy should be mopping the floor with Ajax and he's not. So far, Grandy's put up all-star caliber squat.

Your entire rebuttal was a :doh:. Nothing more than narcissistic garbage. You need to crawl out from under your rock and catch a breeze once in a while.

Anger is the second step toward acceptance. Are we there yet?

I think the best way to settle this would be for you and False to both put your money where your mouth is. Make a bet in regards to where each player will end up number wise at seasons end, loser donates a certain amount of money to this website(or charity or whatever).

Obviously the stats used, terms of the bet and the amount of money would be up to you and false.

I have a feeling that false will have no problem with this.

murpjf88
06-11-10, 02:22 PM
I think the best way to settle this would be for you and False to both put your money where your mouth is. Make a bet in regards to where each player will end up number wise at seasons end, loser donates a certain amount of money to this website(or charity or whatever).

Obviously the stats used, terms of the bet and the amount of money would be up to you and false.

I have a feeling that false will have no problem with this.

I'm game if he is ;)

effdamets
06-11-10, 02:32 PM
This is getting good.....

I'll just add in:

Granderson = 115 OPS+
Jackson = 108 OPS+

To me - OPS+ is the best way to compare the players.

delv
06-11-10, 02:54 PM
This is getting good.....

I'll just add in:

Granderson = 115 OPS+
Jackson = 108 OPS+

To me - OPS+ is the best way to compare the players.

...after wRC+, that is!

Curtis - 116 wRC+
AJax - 117 wRC+
Gardner - 137 wRC+

;)

DRobertsonNYY
06-11-10, 02:55 PM
Holy crap wow the poster in the previous page got owned. :lol: :lol:

I'm A Wenner!
06-11-10, 03:00 PM
Tweeting Homer Simpson, Turn off your internal calculator before you have a brain bleed. Grandy won't touch 600 AB's. Unless your under the assumption he'll average 4.7 plate appearances with no walks, sacrafices, and NO days off. Pass that memo along to Girardi. He'll be lucky if he trips 510.



I wouldn't expect anything less. It isn't the job of the leadoff hitter to smack Home runs and drive in runs. I also expect a lot more out of Grandy since he's an "all-star" caliber player and Jackson's a good for nothing rookie that in all rights, was brought up to the majors prematurely.



Negligible at best. Those numbers can flip-flop within a day or two. By now, you should have some sense of mind that rookies are unpredictable. Austin's numbers have fluctuated all season long. This is one trend which will probably continue. I haven't seen any indication that Grandy's trend will continue to increase. Keep in mind of Granderson's fast start (15/46, .313 BA) Since (16/71, .225 BA) I think your confusing hot streak against basement dwellers with trend.



OPS seems to be your collective answer for everything. Its would be pretty embarrassing if Ajax had a higher .OPS seeing as how Granderson is a proven power hitter and Ajax is a linedrive single's hitter at this point in his career. But if it makes you feel better to crap all over an unpolished rookie with 2+ months of ML experience, whose still learning the pitchers and the league to a veteran all-star caliber player in the prime of his career, you have at it. Whatever tickles your fancy. And in the real world, how is .647 good?


Again, trying to exploit an unpolished rookie to compensate for Granderson's shortcomings. If it makes you feel better on the inside, then by all means, do your worst. Based on 25 AB's against Bos(9)/NY(16), your conclusion is what? he stinks?
Ask Grandy what it feels like to hit against CHW (2/16), Tor(0/8) or Angels(4/21), three pitching powerhouses at there finest.



His May/June numbers are based on 45 AB's after last night. I split them to make it easier for you but that apparently wasn't easy enough. To break that down further, he's only had 42 AB's since the injury. Good luck finding a trend in 42 AB's Teix was 22/67 .328 BA between May 1 and May 17.. Where is that trend now?

And needless to say, its pretty typical that you once again you misinterpreted my post. I smell a theme here. I simply said for those people who make light of Jackson's dwindling numbers on offense, Grandy's numbers are nothing to get excited about. You continue to kick the bucket as if this were some sort of contest between Ajax and Granderson. Truth be told, Grandy should be mopping the floor with Ajax and he's not. So far, Grandy's put up all-star caliber squat.

Your entire rebuttal was a :doh:. Nothing more than narcissistic garbage. You need to crawl out from under your rock and catch a breeze once in a while.

Anger is the second step toward acceptance. Are we there yet?

Yeah False1, how dare you pick on a poor, defenseless, rookie, just to make yourself feel better!

DEADSOX
06-11-10, 03:05 PM
Did I just read this right that someone thinks Austin Jackson will post a better OPS+ than Granderson when all is said and done? I want in on that bet.

I'm A Wenner!
06-11-10, 03:32 PM
Did I just read this right that someone thinks Austin Jackson will post a better OPS+ than Granderson when all is said and done? I want in on that bet.

You're just being narcissistic.

murpjf88
06-11-10, 03:37 PM
You're just being narcissistic.

Did you learn a new word?

murpjf88
06-11-10, 03:38 PM
Did I just read this right that someone thinks Austin Jackson will post a better OPS+ than Granderson when all is said and done? I want in on that bet.

You read it wrong.

I'm A Wenner!
06-11-10, 03:39 PM
Did you learn a new word?

You should try it.

False1
06-11-10, 04:53 PM
Tweeting Homer Simpson, Turn off your internal calculator before you have a brain bleed. Grandy won't touch 600 AB's. Unless your under the assumption he'll average 4.7 plate appearances with no walks, sacrafices, and NO days off. Pass that memo along to Girardi. He'll be lucky if he trips 510.



I wouldn't expect anything less. It isn't the job of the leadoff hitter to smack Home runs and drive in runs. I also expect a lot more out of Grandy since he's an "all-star" caliber player and Jackson's a good for nothing rookie that in all rights, was brought up to the majors prematurely.



Negligible at best. Those numbers can flip-flop within a day or two. By now, you should have some sense of mind that rookies are unpredictable. Austin's numbers have fluctuated all season long. This is one trend which will probably continue. I haven't seen any indication that Grandy's trend will continue to increase. Keep in mind of Granderson's fast start (15/46, .313 BA) Since (16/71, .225 BA) I think your confusing hot streak against basement dwellers with trend.



OPS seems to be your collective answer for everything. Its would be pretty embarrassing if Ajax had a higher .OPS seeing as how Granderson is a proven power hitter and Ajax is a linedrive single's hitter at this point in his career. But if it makes you feel better to crap all over an unpolished rookie with 2+ months of ML experience, whose still learning the pitchers and the league to a veteran all-star caliber player in the prime of his career, you have at it. Whatever tickles your fancy. And in the real world, how is .647 good?


Again, trying to exploit an unpolished rookie to compensate for Granderson's shortcomings. If it makes you feel better on the inside, then by all means, do your worst. Based on 25 AB's against Bos(9)/NY(16), your conclusion is what? he stinks?
Ask Grandy what it feels like to hit against CHW (2/16), Tor(0/8) or Angels(4/21), three pitching powerhouses at there finest.



His May/June numbers are based on 45 AB's after last night. I split them to make it easier for you but that apparently wasn't easy enough. To break that down further, he's only had 42 AB's since the injury. Good luck finding a trend in 42 AB's Teix was 22/67 .328 BA between May 1 and May 17.. Where is that trend now?

And needless to say, its pretty typical that you once again you misinterpreted my post. I smell a theme here. I simply said for those people who make light of Jackson's dwindling numbers on offense, Grandy's numbers are nothing to get excited about. You continue to kick the bucket as if this were some sort of contest between Ajax and Granderson. Truth be told, Grandy should be mopping the floor with Ajax and he's not. So far, Grandy's put up all-star caliber squat.

Your entire rebuttal was a :doh:. Nothing more than narcissistic garbage. You need to crawl out from under your rock and catch a breeze once in a while.

Anger is the second step toward acceptance. Are we there yet?I could pick apart this post as well, but seriously if nothing to this point has worked it's completely fruitless. I want to make one thing clear though, I'm not "exploiting/crapping on an unpolished rookie"... that's by far the craziest thing I've ever read on these boards. How many times have I said publicly in this forum that I'm pulling for Jackson? I hope he does well - outside of his appearances against the Yankees of course. Hey - I'm pulling for IPK also, just in case you see me being honest and objective over in the "IPK is better than Halladay and Halladay sucks" thread. I have never once said Jackson "stinks" - post a link if you've got one. I've simply used Jackson to show how utterly ridiculous your points on Granderson are.

Seriously, quit the internet - or at least this thread - until you can be objective.

False1
06-11-10, 04:57 PM
I'm game if he is ;)As long as the charity is the Exploited Unpolished Rookie Anonymous (EURA) fund...

What are we going to do, put the money in a trust fund? Seems kind of silly. I'm not rooting against Jackson whatsoever, but if you think that at the end of the year he will outproduce Granderson I'll play along.

I'm A Wenner!
06-11-10, 05:51 PM
As long as the charity is the Exploited Unpolished Rookie Anonymous (EURA) fund...

What are we going to do, put the money in a trust fund? Seems kind of silly. I'm not rooting against Jackson whatsoever, but if you think that at the end of the year he will outproduce Granderson I'll play along.

You disgust me. You monster.

murpjf88
06-11-10, 10:21 PM
As long as the charity is the Exploited Unpolished Rookie Anonymous (EURA) fund...

What are we going to do, put the money in a trust fund? Seems kind of silly. I'm not rooting against Jackson whatsoever, but if you think that at the end of the year he will outproduce Granderson I'll play along.

I can be objective. The point I was merely stating was that Grandy's numbers aren't at all what the Yanks signed up for yet. Even if you average them out season long, he's on pace for his lowest numbers since 2006. I'm not going to argue that Ajax's numbers are on the decline, but I'm not going to tear down one player to make another one look good. Ajax is more comparable to Brett Gardner than he is to Granderson.

Charity? Hell no. I was talking small donation to the website. It doesn't really matter. I'm posting my final stat numbers for Ajax and Grandy.

Ajax .304 BA 3 HR's 37 RBI's .355 OPB .767 OPS

Granderson .263 18 Hrs 61 Rbi's ..362 .780 OPS

In regards to Grandy, I hope I'm wrong because they really need his bat to offset Teix. It would be a good idea if he started stroking the long ball to offset Arod's power outage.

dabomb2045
06-11-10, 10:46 PM
Did I just read this right that someone thinks Austin Jackson will post a better OPS+ than Granderson when all is said and done? I want in on that bet.

I want a piece of this bet as well

Kluivert4Ever
06-11-10, 11:18 PM
Jackson is now batting just .306 with an OPS of .760.
Curtis has an OPS of .786 and you can count on this differential to be spreading.

People its not even close, Austin Jackson is a young decent player who right now really is a 4th outfielder (he is kinda similar to Melky Cabrera but even Melky had more pop) and Curtis Granderson is borderline all-star center fielder. Ajax is young and I think he will develop into a nice player but if he can even sniff the All-Star game just once in his career I will be SHOCKED.

Dexter Morgan
06-11-10, 11:20 PM
BA has taken a nose dive.

.306 BA/351 OBP/.412 SLG/.763 OPS

1 HR, 14, RBI, 8 SB/1 CS

Leads the AL with 67 strike outs.

Dexter Morgan
06-11-10, 11:21 PM
Jackson is now batting just .306 with an OPS of .760.
Curtis has an OPS of .786 and you can count on this differential to be spreading.

People its not even close, Austin Jackson is a young decent player who right now really is a 4th outfielder (he is kinda similar to Melky Cabrera but even Melky had more pop) and Curtis Granderson is borderline all-star center fielder. Ajax is young and I think he will develop into a nice player but if he can even sniff the All-Star game just once in his career I will be SHOCKED.

Isn't playing like one... and still can't hit LHP