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View Full Version : Whose discovery of steroid usage would crush you?



flymick24
01-14-10, 01:13 AM
Any names out there who would personally cause you to lose all hope for the game if it was revealed that they were juciers?

Me? Jeter and Mo... probably Halladay too.

Steve Dalkowski
01-14-10, 01:15 AM
Nobody is sacred anymore, honestly.

DEADSOX
01-14-10, 01:42 AM
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=116274

:P

K-W
01-14-10, 02:07 AM
If someone works out for a living, I am never surprised if they use or have used steroids at some point.

delv
01-14-10, 02:10 AM
Melky Cabrera.

Zimmer's Helmet
01-14-10, 02:11 AM
Had you asked me that question back in 1987, I would have said this guy :

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1001/mark.mcgwire.rare.photos/content.4.html

TheoShmeo
01-14-10, 08:39 AM
No one.

There are only two or three players in all of baseball who I would bet money were clean.

In a system where everyone is doing it, the league is not testing for it and you stand to make exponentially more money if you partake, expecting young men with limited earning capacity once their playing days are over to refrain is asking a lot.

Not saying it was right to cheat; am saying that expecting people not to is naive.

Mr. Mxylsplk
01-14-10, 10:39 AM
No one. Although Mo would be really really dissapointing. No one else would really faze me.

Hitman23
01-14-10, 10:45 AM
Nobody would surprise me at all but I think if Jeter or Pujols were found it would really hurt baseball worse than it's ever been.

pjfan
01-14-10, 10:49 AM
Absolutely nobody is without suspicion. It's pretty sad too.

It's at a point now where you just shrug your shoulders and move on.

lolwut
01-14-10, 10:56 AM
None. They should all take steroids. Sacrifice your bodies for my entertainment!

LongLiveBernie51!
01-14-10, 10:56 AM
Absolutely nobody is without suspicion. It's pretty sad too.

It's at a point now where you just shrug your shoulders and move on.

Yes. Especially after the Manny and Ortiz revelations.

Steve Dalkowski
01-14-10, 10:59 AM
Yes. Especially after the Manny and Ortiz revelations.
A-Rod was the real turning point for me.

delv
01-14-10, 11:00 AM
Yes. Especially after the Manny and Ortiz revelations.

:uhh:

LongLiveBernie51!
01-14-10, 11:03 AM
:uhh:


My sarcasm must not be translating well.

NYYDragoon
01-14-10, 11:04 AM
Jeter, Mo, and Mauer.

DiMaggio5CF
01-14-10, 11:09 AM
A-Rod was the real turning point for me.

Agreed. Griffey never got there, but then when it became clear that Bonds was going to break the all-time HR record on 'roids, A-Rod was the guy who was supposed to restore that record. Knowing now that even if he does it, the record will still be tainted is what really sucked.

I don't know if Pujols has a shot at the record, but if it turns out that he does, finding out something about him would likely be equally upsetting.

Reggie Smith
01-14-10, 11:14 AM
Casey Fossum.

Dr. Gonzo
01-14-10, 11:22 AM
no one, i could care less if people did steroids and find it amusing people get so offended.

Sixty one
01-14-10, 12:11 PM
No one. Although Mo would be really really dissapointing. No one else would really faze me.

I agree. Aong with Jeter this would be crushing for this old time Yankee fan. I don't think I'd be able to follow the Yanks as much if this happened.

Hooligan Tavarez
01-14-10, 12:19 PM
Pedro

ace
01-14-10, 12:19 PM
Nobody

Hooligan Tavarez
01-14-10, 12:21 PM
For the people saying nobody, why? I think being surprised and disappointed are two different things.

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 12:25 PM
For the people saying nobody, why? I think being surprised and disappointed are two different things.

The word was "crush". I wouldn't be crushed by anyone's steroid usage.

TheoShmeo
01-14-10, 12:26 PM
For the people saying nobody, why? I think being surprised and disappointed are two different things.
Because I think that a very large percentage of baseball players were taking PEDs pre-testing.

Given that belief, how could the revelation that Player X was doing so crush me?

Honestly, the only players on the Sox would really shock me would be Schilling, in light of everything he's said and written about the topic, and Gabe Kapler, because a close friend knows him and has talked extensively with him about the issue and told me about it.

Hitman23
01-14-10, 12:30 PM
For the people saying nobody, why? I think being surprised and disappointed are two different things.I'd be more worried about baseball being crushed by the media and riling up America to hate it. As far as I go, I don't really care. I accept how most people rationalize things and when it comes to the amount of money and fame that being an elite professional athlete brings, you gotta do what you gotta do. in the end, while we're all scrutinizing someone's career and how their "cheating" boosted their numbers, they're still retiring on money beyond my comprehension and I'm sure they sleep just fine. It's a me world man, especially in these times.

DEADSOX
01-14-10, 12:32 PM
I honestly think only Mariano Rivera would disappoint me a little at this point. I'm pretty desensitized to it by now though.

NYYDragoon
01-14-10, 12:33 PM
no one, i could care less if people did steroids and find it amusing people get so offended.
http://www.incompetech.com/Images/caring.png

BringBackBernie!
01-14-10, 12:40 PM
http://www.incompetech.com/Images/caring.png
:D love it

Mezmerize
01-14-10, 01:29 PM
Bud Selig.... I just..... couldn't go on....

TheGameEpisode2
01-14-10, 01:33 PM
David Eckstein.



But I really wish Selena Roberts never revealed the A-Rod news. Keep it quiet to save the game, you know?

effdamets
01-14-10, 01:39 PM
David Eckstein.



But I really wish Selena Roberts never revealed the A-Rod news. Keep it quiet to save the game, you know?
Meh - she has no interest in being honorable. Whatever lines her pockets most and pays her enormous grocery bill, that's all she's interested in.

manhattanclam
01-14-10, 01:44 PM
No one anymore. But it's amazing how this story has turned upside down. I mean, now it's a feel good vibe if we can show a star who DIDN'T use:-shrug-:

manhattanclam
01-14-10, 01:46 PM
Pedro
I could DEFINITELY see Pedro having used, especially after the labrum issues

BronxYanks45
01-14-10, 01:56 PM
Griffey would shock me since he didnt really get big physically during his prime

DEADSOX
01-14-10, 01:59 PM
Griffey would shock me since he didnt really get big physically during his prime

Neither did A-Rod. I think it's been established that there is no direct correlation b/w steroids and size. There are too many factors that come into play.

Yankee Tripper
01-14-10, 02:00 PM
For the people saying nobody, why? I think being surprised and disappointed are two different things.

There are few people who I'd be surprised by. And a few people I'd be mildy disappointed in. But there is no one, outside of my immediate family, who I'd be crushed by the revelation.

DaSh 1s
01-14-10, 02:09 PM
I would be crushed if I found out Pedroia was using... he plays the game the right way.

False1
01-14-10, 02:09 PM
Because I think that a very large percentage of baseball players were taking PEDs pre-testing.

Given that belief, how could the revelation that Player X was doing so crush me?

Honestly, the only players on the Sox would really shock me would be Schilling, in light of everything he's said and written about the topic, and Gabe Kapler, because a close friend knows him and has talked extensively with him about the issue and told me about it.This Gabe Kapler? And because you heard second hand about a conversation a friend had with him about steroids? He may be a fitness/nutrition nut, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he took steriods, nor that he wouldn't admit that to your friend.

http://www.iballer.com/malecelebs/kapler/images/k26_jpg.jpg

Eschie
01-14-10, 02:15 PM
Pedro

I'm A Wenner!
01-14-10, 02:15 PM
Kapler and Schilling definitely used.

Nick Day
01-14-10, 02:21 PM
This Gabe Kapler? And because you heard second hand about a conversation a friend had with him about steroids? He may be a fitness/nutrition nut, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he took steriods, nor that he wouldn't admit that to your friend.

http://www.iballer.com/malecelebs/kapler/images/k26_jpg.jpg
That Gabe Kapler spent his life as a body-builder first and baseball player second. Being a body builder, you must give blood tests along with all of the other drug tests to compete. I highly doubt he's used. If he had, he would have been caught and outed by either by MLB or IFBB/INBF

False1
01-14-10, 02:26 PM
That Gabe Kapler spent his life as a body-builder first and baseball player second. Being a body builder, you must give blood tests along with all of the other drug tests to compete. I highly doubt he's used. If he had, he would have been caught and outed by either by MLB or IFBB/INBFRight, because there have never been bodybuilders or baseball players that used PED's for extensive amounts of time before getting caught.

I'm not saying he did, just challenging the supposition that a guy playing during the steroid era with a ridiculous phsyique compared to ALL other players in his sport didn't use PED's based solely on a conversation someone heard about second hand. That's some lousy evidence to overcome some pretty realistic suspicion. Especially coming from a lawyer.

pjfan
01-14-10, 02:43 PM
Kapler and Schilling definitely used.

Kapler is obvious, but why Schilling?

I'm A Wenner!
01-14-10, 02:46 PM
Kapler is obvious, but why Schilling?

Very late prime. Mid-to-late 30s.

NYYDragoon
01-14-10, 02:51 PM
Schilling has said ON THESE BOARDS that he never used. Shouldn't we trust him? :P

If Schilling is outed, I'd probably accidentally crush something in celebration.

I'm A Wenner!
01-14-10, 02:53 PM
Schilling has said ON THESE BOARDS that he never used. Shouldn't we trust him? :P

If Schilling is outed, I'd probably accidentally crush something in celebration.

Theo also said that his friend hangs out with Gabe Kapler. People make stuff up on boards all the time.

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 02:53 PM
Theo also said that his friend hangs out with Gabe Kapler. People make stuff up on boards all the time.

Like you saying Schilling definitely used?

President Kennedy
01-14-10, 02:55 PM
Any names out there who would personally cause you to lose all hope for the game if it was revealed that they were juciers?

Me? Jeter and Mo... probably Halladay too.

No one. And out of those three names, I'm at a point where I might be more suprised if it turned out Mo didn't use.

I'm A Wenner!
01-14-10, 02:57 PM
Like you saying Schilling definitely used?

My friend eats cheeseburgers with Schilling. He watched him put steroids on them.

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 02:59 PM
My friend eats cheeseburgers with Schilling. He watched him put steroids on them.

Now there's the proof we've been waiting for!

TheoShmeo
01-14-10, 02:59 PM
Theo also said that his friend hangs out with Gabe Kapler. People make stuff up on boards all the time.
What would I have to gain by lying about Gabe Kapler? He was relatively inconsequential as a Red Sox.

PS: I'm not trying to convince anyone about Kapler. I'd be surprised about him being a user because I know the person who spoke with him in depth and I heard the details of their converstation. My point was rather that there's no one else (along with Schill) on the Sox whose usage pre-testing would surprise me.

NYYDragoon
01-14-10, 02:59 PM
My friend eats cheeseburgers with Schilling. He watched him put steroids on them.Mmm, steroids...

yankeebot
01-14-10, 03:41 PM
The only reason I have doubts about Kapler is that, iirc, his focus was on all natural bodybuilding and that was where he was a big competitor. If my memory is failing me, all bets are off.

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 04:03 PM
The only reason I have doubts about Kapler is that, iirc, his focus was on all natural bodybuilding and that was where he was a big competitor. If my memory is failing me, all bets are off.

Just admit it, you can't imagine a Jew taking steroids.

False1
01-14-10, 04:05 PM
What would I have to gain by lying about Gabe Kapler? He was relatively inconsequential as a Red Sox.

PS: I'm not trying to convince anyone about Kapler. I'd be surprised about him being a user because I know the person who spoke with him in depth and I heard the details of their converstation. My point was rather that there's no one else (along with Schill) on the Sox whose usage pre-testing would surprise me.Have any friends that know Rafael Palmiero? Sammy Sosa? Would you be convinced if those conversations didn't include an admission of usage?

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 04:07 PM
Good lord.

JavyVazquezIsSick
01-14-10, 04:08 PM
Jesus Christ...Why didn't my work filters block that.

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 04:08 PM
Jesus Christ...Why didn't my work filters block that.

Not quite.

yankeebot
01-14-10, 04:09 PM
Jesus Christ...Why didn't my work filters block that.
Sorry.

Carbon Fiber
01-14-10, 04:17 PM
Griffey would shock me since he didnt really get big physically during his prime

Believe it or, size change means nothing to me. Probably the best American female middle distance runner of the last 15 years - Regina Jacobs - weighed about 100 lbs and was lean as can be, but she was part of the BALCO mess and taking much of the same stuff that Bonds was. There are steroids that increase strength and healing rate with no size gain at all.

Steve Dalkowski
01-14-10, 04:17 PM
This Gabe Kapler? And because you heard second hand about a conversation a friend had with him about steroids? He may be a fitness/nutrition nut, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he took steriods, nor that he wouldn't admit that to your friend.

http://www.iballer.com/malecelebs/kapler/images/k26_jpg.jpg
Thanks for gaying up the thread, man.

ace
01-14-10, 04:35 PM
For the people saying nobody, why? I think being surprised and disappointed are two different things.

I'm not surprised or disappointed anymore, by anyone. When the whole saga was originally picking up steam, I was against it - and anyone who was associated with it - big time. However, the more and more names that come out, the less I care. Especially with the lame excuses that most guys come up with "I didn't know what it was" or "I only took it to heal" Additionally, I don't like when the media portrays a guy as "clean" as if it's a guarantee that they know who is and isn't using/a former user. Pujols is the new clean warrior we can look up to, but before he held that crown it was A-Rod's, and we saw how that turned out.

Once the A-Rod stuff came out, my favorite player, I became completely desensitized to the entire thing. After that, I no longer care about anybody else that this continues with, and I no longer care enough to be against guys getting in the hall either. We really have no way of knowing who was, and wasn't. I just assume more were than not and don't care who, how, or when. The Yankees won the World Series three months ago. That's the only thing that matters to me.

DaSh 1s
01-14-10, 04:39 PM
Mmm, steroids...

http://img3.ifilmpro.com/resize/image/stills/films/resize/istd/3019661.jpg


Ya, I take steroids. I eat that ish for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

JavyVazquezIsSick
01-14-10, 04:47 PM
Is that Thebo?

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 04:52 PM
I look nothing like that guy, other than the fact he's a white male in his 20's.

JavyVazquezIsSick
01-14-10, 04:53 PM
Really? I could of sworn you look very similar to him.

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 04:56 PM
This is me with Swisher -

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs032.snc1/4306_81193724245_500314245_1603141_917644_n.jpg

NYYDragoon
01-14-10, 05:12 PM
You just wanted to post a picture of you and Swisher. Asshole.

(Thebo? Really?)

THEBOSS84
01-14-10, 05:13 PM
You just wanted to post a picture of you and Swisher. Asshole.

(Thebo? Really?)

The day after I predicted to you I was gonna see him around the city, I end up meeting him. So weird. Justtxyank made up Thebo. It has stuck with some, don't ask.

TheoShmeo
01-14-10, 05:37 PM
Have any friends that know Rafael Palmiero? Sammy Sosa? Would you be convinced if those conversations didn't include an admission of usage?
It depends on who the friend was and what they said about the conversation.

But you are correct, I would be much less likely to believe anything relayed from either of those guys than Gabe Kapler. Both Palmeiro and Sosa put up big numbers and both have been closely tied to PEDs use. Neither of those things is true about Gabe.

CallOfTheCrow
01-14-10, 05:38 PM
azzuribaggio....his constant thread making is all grit & can't be a product of chemicals.

JavyVazquezIsSick
01-14-10, 05:40 PM
This is me with Swisher -

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs032.snc1/4306_81193724245_500314245_1603141_917644_n.jpg

Maybe it was the other one with Slade. Thought you had spikey hair.

delv
01-14-10, 05:45 PM
Edwar Ramirez

False1
01-14-10, 05:55 PM
Thanks for gaying up the thread, man.LOL - hey, the guy played for your home team, not mine. (NTTAWWT)

False1
01-14-10, 06:02 PM
It depends on who the friend was and what they said about the conversation.

But you are correct, I would be much less likely to believe anything relayed from either of those guys than Gabe Kapler. Both Palmeiro and Sosa put up big numbers and both have been closely tied to PEDs use. Neither of those things is true about Gabe.No, no it wouldn't. I really doubt these PED users are casually discussing their use with people that would pass along information that could ruin their careers.

Again, I'm not on some Kapler Did Roids campaign but there's reason for suspicion given the ridcilous and highly atypical physique for a baseball player, the time in which he played the game and he did have a massive drop off in power output after his first few years. Does that mean he did steroids? No. Does a coversation you hear about second hand mean it should be shocking if he did? Don't be naive.

False1
01-14-10, 06:03 PM
Edwar RamirezLOL - ok, that is funny.

Which player winning a chicken wing eating contest would shock you? Same answer.

Bronson'sCornrows
01-14-10, 06:43 PM
Honestly, the only players on the Sox would really shock me would be Schilling, in light of everything he's said and written about the topic, and Gabe Kapler, because a close friend knows him and has talked extensively with him about the issue and told me about it.That's a horrible reason. People lie to their friends all the time, especially about stuff like this. I agree with the general sentiment, though; Kapler ranks very low out of all the Sox players of that era. The main reason is his heavy involvement with natural bodybuilding competitions and the fact that their testing policies are (or were) widely regarded as being several factors more stringent than that of any ever implemented by the MLB or NFL. If I were wrong about Kap, it wouldn't really crush me.

Pedro would bother me more than anyone else if he were dragged into the whole thing. I'd get over it, but I'd definitely be irritated for a little while.

TheoShmeo
01-14-10, 06:44 PM
No, no it wouldn't. I really doubt these PED users are casually discussing their use with people that would pass along information that could ruin their careers.

Again, I'm not on some Kapler Did Roids campaign but there's reason for suspicion given the ridcilous and highly atypical physique for a baseball player, the time in which he played the game and he did have a massive drop off in power output after his first few years. Does that mean he did steroids? No. Does a coversation you hear about second hand mean it should be shocking if he did? Don't be naive.
First, Kapler didn't suffer a drop off at the PEDs testing dividing line. It's not like his output dropped off tremendously beginning in 2005 or so.

Second, you don't know me or my friend, how long my friend has known Kapler or what Kapler said to my friend. If you knew all of those things, you might have a different view of this. And you might not. But calling me naive without knowing those things is presumptuous in the extreme.

Third, I don't give a damn whether anyone thinks that Gabe Kapler did PEDs. Based on what I know, I don't believe he did and would be pretty surprised if I was wrong. But my point was never a Kapler vindication. It was rather that other than him and Schill, there is literally no one on the pre-testing Sox whose PEDs use would surprise me. To me, that is the sad result of the rampant PEDs use in the majors before baseball got its act together and stated to test for PEDs and penalize violators...almost no one is beyond suspicion.

Bronson'sCornrows
01-14-10, 06:48 PM
No, no it wouldn't. I really doubt these PED users are casually discussing their use with people that would pass along information that could ruin their careers.

Again, I'm not on some Kapler Did Roids campaign but there's reason for suspicion given the ridcilous and highly atypical physique for a baseball player, the time in which he played the game and he did have a massive drop off in power output after his first few years. Does that mean he did steroids? No. Does a coversation you hear about second hand mean it should be shocking if he did? Don't be naive.This is actually regarded by scouts (so take it with a grain of salt) as being a function of his bodybuilding obsession. He added bulky muscle mass during his first few years in the game and some scouts later claimed that mass negatively impacted his bat speed and overall mobility.

ace
01-14-10, 06:48 PM
This Gabe Kapler? And because you heard second hand about a conversation a friend had with him about steroids? He may be a fitness/nutrition nut, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he took steriods, nor that he wouldn't admit that to your friend.

http://www.iballer.com/malecelebs/kapler/images/k26_jpg.jpg

Isn't he the guy Swisher struck out?

TheoShmeo
01-14-10, 06:51 PM
That's a horrible reason. People lie to their friends all the time, especially about stuff like this.
I suppose that's true. At the same time, Kapler really had no risk or reason to lie to my friend. It's not as if my friend was investigating Kapler or is a member of the media. And, I dunno, if I wrote what my friend relayed to me, I think you might view things differently. I know that anything could be made up; at the same time, what Kapler said carries the ring of truth, at least to my ears.

As to Pedro, I wouldn't be irritated at all if he was taking PEDs. In that era, I couldn't blame anyone for wanting to compete on an equal playing field given that so much of the competition was cheating, too.

I'm A Wenner!
01-14-10, 07:00 PM
Gabe Kapler told me he LOVES steroids.

Bronson'sCornrows
01-14-10, 07:02 PM
As to Pedro, I wouldn't be irritated at all if he was taking PEDs. In that era, I couldn't blame anyone for wanting to compete on an equal playing field given that so much of the competition was cheating, too.I don't blame you for feeling that way (regarding "evening the odds"), but I'm not sure if I can feel the same way. Even if I could, Pedro has since bragged about being a natural lightweight dominating the chemically enhanced heavyweights of the juiced era. If he were just like the rest, well, then he just happened to be a juiced up guy dominating other juiced up guys, and his whole spiel would have just been a lie. Not that it would be the first time an athlete had lied to me, but I actually like Pedro and he seems to really shoot from the hip. It doesn't bother me when guys like Clemens, A-Rod, and Ortiz bull................ me because I never had the same level of respect for them.

I have accepted that anyone from the late 60's until the day I die is a possible candidate, though.

Blazer
01-14-10, 08:11 PM
If Hank Aaron were playing today I'm sure some eyebrows would be raised by a player who had some his best years after the age of 35.

Were Hank Aaron's late career accomplishments enabled by the use of PEDs or a lowered mound and expansion.

I'm A Wenner!
01-14-10, 08:22 PM
If Hank Aaron were playing today I'm sure some eyebrows would be raised by a player who had some his best years after the age of 35.

Were Hank Aaron's late career accomplishments enabled by the use of PEDs or a lowered mound and expansion.

Greenies.

The Q Bomb
01-14-10, 08:27 PM
Had you asked me that question back in 1987, I would have said this guy :

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1001/mark.mcgwire.rare.photos/content.4.html Eeeeewwww.


I would be very disappointed if Jeter or Mo took steroids but not crushed - especially if they used it before testing started (kind of making it officially illegally). Frankly, it's like learning that your parents smoked pot when they were in college. It was almost the norm, almost acceptable (even though it was illegal) so it's not so shocking. What's different with McGwire and Bonds is that they were being scrutinized and asked questions while they were going for these records. They were not only trying to keep up with and best their contemporaries, they were trying to break immortal records and they knew their steroid usage gave them an unfair advantage towards that end.

Frankly, I'm over this stuff. As a Yankee fan, I've already suffered the embarrassment of that unquestionably shoddy Mitchell Commission finding that basically listed only Yankees as steroid users. I've been disappointed learning that good, old, Andy Pettitte, used steroids. I've gone through the disappointment of seeing modern day players breaking sacred (to me) Yankee records. I look at it now as an era when it was the norm, rather than the exception, and that some players (like Jeter, I hope, and maybe Bernie) were victimized because they were great players but couldn't put up numbers to compete with their steroid using peers. It is what it is. Let's get over it.

I'm A Wenner!
01-14-10, 08:29 PM
My dad totally smoked pot in college. It freaked me out when I found out.

The Comic Book Guy
01-14-10, 08:30 PM
If Hank Aaron were playing today I'm sure some eyebrows would be raised by a player who had some his best years after the age of 35.

Were Hank Aaron's late career accomplishments enabled by the use of PEDs or a lowered mound and expansion.

Moving from County Stadium to the Launching Pad probably helped.

False1
01-14-10, 09:25 PM
First, Kapler didn't suffer a drop off at the PEDs testing dividing line. It's not like his output dropped off tremendously beginning in 2005 or so.

Second, you don't know me or my friend, how long my friend has known Kapler or what Kapler said to my friend. If you knew all of those things, you might have a different view of this. And you might not. But calling me naive without knowing those things is presumptuous in the extreme.

Third, I don't give a damn whether anyone thinks that Gabe Kapler did PEDs. Based on what I know, I don't believe he did and would be pretty surprised if I was wrong. But my point was never a Kapler vindication. It was rather that other than him and Schill, there is literally no one on the pre-testing Sox whose PEDs use would surprise me. To me, that is the sad result of the rampant PEDs use in the majors before baseball got its act together and stated to test for PEDs and penalize violators...almost no one is beyond suspicion.

Kapler really had no risk or reason to lie to my friend. It's not as if my friend was investigating Kapler or is a member of the media. And, I dunno, if I wrote what my friend relayed to me, I think you might view things differently. I know that anything could be made up; at the same time, what Kapler said carries the ring of truth, at least to my ears.
LOL - Was there a secret handshake involved or something? People lie to their spouses, parents, kids, bosses, etc. People lie in religious ceremonies. People lie to the governement. Some people lie just for the frick of it. But no one - not no one - lies to TheoShmeo's friends.

A guy couldn't possibly be lying about PED's, when that information could absolutely crush his livelihood and his reputation? If he was in fact using, you think he'd tell your friend as long as he thought he wasn't actively investigating him?

All righty then.

YanksFan1992
01-14-10, 09:26 PM
Crushed: No one.

However, I'd pretty shocked if Griffey, Mauer or Jeter were implicated.

I'm A Wenner!
01-14-10, 09:38 PM
Gabe Kapler has an "I <3 STEROIDS" t-shirt. He wears it to the gym.

BennyTheJetRodriguez
01-15-10, 07:23 AM
Taylor Hansen.

TheoShmeo
01-15-10, 07:34 AM
LOL - Was there a secret handshake involved or something? People lie to their spouses, parents, kids, bosses, etc. People lie in religious ceremonies. People lie to the governement. Some people lie just for the frick of it. But no one - not no one - lies to TheoShmeo's friends.

A guy couldn't possibly be lying about PED's, when that information could absolutely crush his livelihood and his reputation? If he was in fact using, you think he'd tell your friend as long as he thought he wasn't actively investigating him?

All righty then.
You can laugh and overstate this as much as you want. People of course lie all the time. They do that to my friends and, shockingly, even to me! Still, here are times when someone tells something to you or someone you know, and the circumstances, what they said and how they said what they said makes you believe what you heard. There are other times when you know it's extremely possible that what you heard was not true.

In this particular instance, my friend believed Kapler, and based on what I know about their friendship and what I heard about their discussion on PEDs, so do I.

I have zero stake in this, though. Kapler was perhaps the least important guy to me on the 2004 team, and if I had to pick the one Red Sox to get nailed for PED use during that era before I heard about this conversation and my friend's assessment of Kapler as a person, I very well might have picked him.

That I believe that Kapler was clean was a side point to my original post. The main point was, and remains, that there are precious few guys on the pre-testing Sox who I feel strongly were clean, and only Kapler and Schilling made the cut. The point would be the same if I had chosen Pokey Reese and Johnny Damon, and the reason why I think Kapler was clean is irrelevant to that main point.

26 and counting
01-15-10, 09:06 AM
No one. I don't idolize athletes.

JohnnyDamonfan
01-15-10, 09:29 AM
It wouldn't really crush me but I would feel bad if Mariano, Jeter,Mauer, Pujols, or Lincecum was doing Steroids. I wouldn't say crushed though.

False1
01-15-10, 10:04 AM
It wouldn't really crush me but I would feel bad if Mariano, Jeter,Mauer, Pujols, or Lincecum was doing Steroids. I wouldn't say crushed though.In the context of baseball I'd definitely be devastated if Mariano or Jeter was on the list. I think a lot of people think they're desensitized and are confident those two aren't users, and are understating the impact it would have on them if they were outed as such. Posada for example wouldn't really bother me, because I'm less confident that he is clean and therefore would be less suprised to find out he wasn't. But Jeter or Mo? Yeah, that would be pretty tragic in a baseball sense.

JohnnyDamonfan
01-15-10, 10:19 AM
In the context of baseball I'd definitely be devastated if Mariano or Jeter was on the list. I think a lot of people think they're desensitized and are confident those two aren't users, and are understating the impact it would have on them if they were outed as such. Posada for example wouldn't really bother me, because I'm less confident that he is clean and therefore would be less suprised to find out he wasn't. But Jeter or Mo? Yeah, that would be pretty tragic in a baseball sense.

I can understand that but is "Crushed" really the right word you would feel even if Jeter and Mo were doing steroids? Which I pray to god they aren't. I would be "Devastated" It would be very tragic to me. And I would feel very upset. But I wouldn't go as far as saying I'd really be crushed by it. That is way to strong a word IMHO.

THEBOSS84
01-15-10, 10:25 AM
I can understand that but is "Crushed" really the right word you would feel even if Jeter and Mo were doing steroids? Which I pray to god they aren't. I would be "Devastated" It would be very tragic to me. And I would feel very upset. But I wouldn't go as far as saying I'd really be crushed by it. That is way to strong a word IMHO.

Devastated is quite the strong word as well. It's pretty similar to the word crushed.

JohnnyDamonfan
01-15-10, 10:27 AM
Devastated is quite the strong word as well. It's pretty similar to the word crushed.

True! But, I believe Devastated might be a few notches below Crushed. Granted, it's close but it's not really the same IMHO.

TheoShmeo
01-15-10, 10:37 AM
I'm guessing the thread starter didn't spend a lot of time parsing "crushed" and "devastated."

The question, I take it, is: Which player being outed would blow you away from a sports perspective? None of this is like what's happening in Haiti, of course, but it seems that there are some fans who would look at things related to baseball differently if guys like Jeter and Rivera were outed.

DontHateOnNumber2
01-15-10, 11:41 PM
Four revelations would crush me: Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Albert Pujols, and Ken Griffey Jr. I'd be majorly bummed if I found out that they used. Hopefully they never did and thus I won't have to worry about it.

YankeePride1967
01-15-10, 11:46 PM
Bubba Crosby.

mrmike98
01-16-10, 09:10 AM
Katie Fey

dabomb2045
01-16-10, 09:14 AM
Nobody. Dont care about steroids...never have and never will.

YankeePride1967
01-16-10, 09:41 AM
Nobody. Dont care about steroids...never have and never will.

I'm closer to your position than any other. I woldn't say I don't care about it, I do think it's wrong and I wish it never did go on. But I cringe when a rumor comes out because I know it's all that's going to be talked about the next week. At some point the fact a player used steroids shouldn't be quite the shocker it once was.

Abe Frohman
01-16-10, 09:41 AM
Four revelations would crush me: Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Albert Pujols, and Ken Griffey Jr. I'd be majorly bummed if I found out that they used. Hopefully they never did and thus I won't have to worry about it.

Pujols ? The Man is the pride and Joy of my country and yet, because of the state of Baseball and
PED's, i can't bring myself to believing in his age or that he has accomplished what he has without
juicing. If Albert was outed, it would not surprise me one bit. He puts up Video Game type numbers
every season ... i just cant buy into it being clean.

Now, If Derek Jeter or Mariano Rivera were ever outed, i would feel about Baseball the same way
i feel about Boxing or Professional Wrestling. The game would literally be a joke to me at that point.

nnysiny
01-16-10, 10:30 AM
if Jeter or Mo do steroids i would at the least see the sport in a different way, if not abandoning it altogether

NYYDragoon
01-16-10, 01:24 PM
Also, if Jeter and Mo did steroids, I'd wonder why since they're not huge guys.

AnA-bombforA-rod
01-16-10, 09:13 PM
Derek and Mariano would hurt, but after A-Rod was outed, I wouldn't be shocked hearing about anyone who used.

False1
01-16-10, 10:34 PM
Also, if Jeter and Mo did steroids, I'd wonder why since they're not huge guys.I hear ya, but if you look around baseball, what % of guys are huge? What % of guys are rumored to have been using steroids? There's a delta between those two.

I think there's at least two categories of PED users... one that used regularly to build and maintain strength and another that used periodically to recover from injury or get through a rough patch.

ArodEra
01-16-10, 11:15 PM
Johnny Rockets, even though his hamburgers suck.

NYYDragoon
01-17-10, 01:47 AM
I hear ya, but if you look around baseball, what % of guys are huge? What % of guys are rumored to have been using steroids? There's a delta between those two.IIRC, all the guys named by Mitchell definitely look bulky. You're not going to take steroids or HGH and be able to hide that.

DontHateOnNumber2
01-17-10, 01:55 AM
Pujols ? The Man is the pride and Joy of my country and yet, because of the state of Baseball and
PED's, i can't bring myself to believing in his age or that he has accomplished what he has without
juicing. If Albert was outed, it would not surprise me one bit. He puts up Video Game type numbers
every season ... i just cant buy into it being clean.

Now, If Derek Jeter or Mariano Rivera were ever outed, i would feel about Baseball the same way
i feel about Boxing or Professional Wrestling. The game would literally be a joke to me at that point.

Don't worry Sausage King, since testing has been implemented Pujols has continued to put up the video game numbers. For now, rest easy without worry.

NYYDragoon
01-17-10, 01:58 AM
Don't worry Sausage King, testing has been implemented Pujols has continued to put up the video game numbers. For now, rest easy without worry.It's not easy to test for HGH.

flymick24
01-17-10, 03:25 AM
my thanks to whoever posted the kaplar pic... i was having a hard time figuring out if i was gay or not, but my massive erection pretty much gave me the answer i'd been looking for

Stick Michael
01-17-10, 05:42 AM
Taylor Hansen.

Quagmire, is that you?!

bobbymagee
01-17-10, 07:55 AM
Casey Stengel, managing and playing, would hurt real bad.

TheoShmeo
01-17-10, 09:09 AM
my thanks to whoever posted the kaplar pic... i was having a hard time figuring out if i was gay or not, but my massive erection pretty much gave me the answer i'd been looking for
His wife and kids say hello.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Original_Photo/2004/10/28/1098947820_4639.jpg

Mr. Mxylsplk
01-17-10, 09:59 AM
IIRC, all the guys named by Mitchell definitely look bulky. You're not going to take steroids or HGH and be able to hide that.
Are you kidding? The Mitchell Report named a tremendous number of guys, many of whom didn't fit the stereotype of a pumped up slugger and weren't remotely bulky at all. Take a look back at the list - many of the players didn't have any more size than Jeter. (I'll give you that a frame like Mo's didn't pop up on the list very much). I think you're really kidding yourself if you think use of PED's neccessarily correlates to a particular resulting body type.

YankeePride1967
01-17-10, 10:02 AM
I think it's important to note that not all steroids are designed to build bulk. If I recall the first player suspended under the new policy was a speedster (Angel Sanchez?)

Mr. Mxylsplk
01-17-10, 10:09 AM
I think it's important to note that not all steroids are designed to build bulk. If I recall the first player suspended under the new policy was a speedster (Angel Sanchez?)
Yeah, he tested positive while he was with Detroit, but only got suspended the following year when he was on Tampa. (Pretty nice break for the Tigers).

yankeebot
01-17-10, 03:32 PM
His wife and kids say hello.

As do his.

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2007/news/070507/mcgreevey_matos180.jpg

ArodEra
01-17-10, 06:05 PM
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/vito.jpg

Casey at the Bat
01-17-10, 10:46 PM
Tommy Lasorda

Dave B
01-17-10, 10:50 PM
This Gabe Kapler? And because you heard second hand about a conversation a friend had with him about steroids? He may be a fitness/nutrition nut, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he took steriods, nor that he wouldn't admit that to your friend.


Wouldn't surprise me if anyone did, but Kapler's physique is hardly unique. He's not uncommonly large. He just has muscles AND a low bodyfat. You can get that without steroids.

You can get McGwire big without steroids too - and you can even do it at later ages. In fact, when you're a pro athlete with tens of millions of dollars whose off-season role is to do nothing more than eat, sleep, and work out, it's not even that hard.

But steroids improve strength, recovery, and performance. There's a very big mental edge and feeling of invincibility that comes with them. Combine that with the fact that MLB effectively encouraged their use and yeah, I think that most people tried them, many people used them, some ABused them, and that there's not a soul in the game that would shock me if he was outed.

But none of that "suspicion" is based at all on a person's body. I know several steroid-free people with physiques better than Kapler's, and dozens of people who are bigger and stronger than any of these so-called obvious steroid users. (Of course, they're not incredible athletes who can hit a ball 400 feet...) The biggest baseball players would make small football players. It has always bugged me that baseball catches so much hell for the steroid "problem" when there are much more freakish bodies and athletes in football. And just as many people caught using, too. But why is it baseball that holds after-the-fact witch hunts and wastes congress's time?

Why Not?
01-17-10, 11:44 PM
Don't worry Sausage King, since testing has been implemented Pujols has continued to put up the video game numbers. For now, rest easy without worry.

The tests are pretty easy to beat, especially if you've found something new like the Balco folks did. And they aren't even testing for HGH. I'm glad they are testing now and I'm sure it's had some effects, but it's insane to think there aren't a bunch of guys still cheating.

flymick24
01-19-10, 12:54 AM
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/vito.jpg

somehow, all of my threads end up going in this direction

Hellsing
01-19-10, 10:17 AM
Elvis...because I always thought he was dead.

THEBOSS84
01-19-10, 10:18 AM
somehow, all of my threads end up going in this direction

However, it was a good point by whoever posted these pics.

35Knucklecurve
01-19-10, 01:10 PM
Crushed - Moose. Hugely disappointed - Mo, Jeter, Pujols and Griffey.

It's sad, but it's at the point where it's a surprise if a player hasn't used PED's.

YankeePride1967
01-19-10, 03:32 PM
Ortiz -- oops.

Hitman23
01-19-10, 04:10 PM
Elvis...because I always thought he was dead.This joke actually went beyond the line of stupid and into making me giggle.

The Q Bomb
01-19-10, 09:44 PM
... But why is it baseball that holds after-the-fact witch hunts and wastes congress's time? Because they have a jackass for a commissioner.

President Kennedy
01-19-10, 10:33 PM
Yankeebot.

tpan413
01-19-10, 11:08 PM
Jeter, Mo, Griffey and Ripken

yankeebot
01-20-10, 10:29 AM
Yankeebot.
It's obvious you've never met me. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/images/smilies/flex.gif

THEBOSS84
01-20-10, 10:37 AM
It's obvious you've never met me. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/images/smilies/flex.gif

I guess that means you're pretty built.

Mezmerize
01-20-10, 12:52 PM
(snip)
But none of that "suspicion" is based at all on a person's body. I know several steroid-free people with physiques better than Kapler's, and dozens of people who are bigger and stronger than any of these so-called obvious steroid users. (Of course, they're not incredible athletes who can hit a ball 400 feet...) The biggest baseball players would make small football players. It has always bugged me that baseball catches so much hell for the steroid "problem" when there are much more freakish bodies and athletes in football. And just as many people caught using, too. But why is it baseball that holds after-the-fact witch hunts and wastes congress's time?

I think the reason has everything to do with management. The NFL was proactive in implementing testing in the 80s and give the impression that they are vigilant in their testing program.

MLB, on the other hand, could not be classified this way. In fact, they were so far on the other side of that spectrum that Congress really didn't have a choice, they had to force the issue by holding the revoking of the antitrust exemption over baseball's head in order to get them to even acknowledge there was a problem.

Hellsing
01-20-10, 03:26 PM
I guess that means you're pretty built.

Jealous of her quads, brah?

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/230085/i/LIsa_Aukland_Female_Bodybuilder_IFBB_Pro_Model_ezr.jpg

THEBOSS84
01-20-10, 07:03 PM
Jealous of her quads, brah?

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/230085/i/LIsa_Aukland_Female_Bodybuilder_IFBB_Pro_Model_ezr.jpg

Good thing I didn't eat dinner yet, brah.