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View Full Version : Dodgers deal Pierre to White Sox



SecretChiSoxFan
12-15-09, 12:57 PM
If the Dodgers are eating half the salary and Hudson isn't one of the White Sox prospects, I like it from a Sox perspective.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091215&content_id=7811916&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

pleasepassthesoup
12-15-09, 01:00 PM
The White Sox are a silly team.

Sam18
12-15-09, 01:02 PM
Someone keep sharp objects away from Torre.

eaganmafia
12-15-09, 01:49 PM
Kenny Williams has added 130 million dollars with of salary in Peavy, Rios, Teahan and Pierre over the last 5 monthes.

SecretChiSoxFan
12-15-09, 02:00 PM
The White Sox are a silly team.

So were the Red Sox in 2004.

Did you have a point? I'm thinking.......NO.

pleasepassthesoup
12-15-09, 02:27 PM
So were the Red Sox in 2004.

Did you have a point? I'm thinking.......NO.

I don't believe there is a connection between my comment and yours.

swityak11
12-15-09, 02:31 PM
Dodgers are paying $10m of the $18m left on his deal.

Yankeeah
12-15-09, 02:40 PM
So were the Red Sox in 2004.

Did you have a point? I'm thinking.......NO.

Wow, this is just...completely unrelated.

Sam18
12-15-09, 02:48 PM
So were the Red Sox in 2004.

Did you have a point? I'm thinking.......NO.

Aw man you just reminded me of 2004, I feel so bad now.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
12-15-09, 02:51 PM
Obvious troll is obvious.

CallOfTheCrow
12-15-09, 02:51 PM
The White Sox are still a very silly team.

LongLiveBernie51!
12-15-09, 02:52 PM
Aw man you just reminded me of 2004, I feel so bad now.

what happened in 2004? :dunno:

I'm too busy staring at my new 8 disc Yankees World series Collectors Edition Box Set to try and remember.

SecretChiSoxFan
12-15-09, 03:29 PM
Obvious troll is obvious.

He is, no doubt.

delv
12-15-09, 04:04 PM
I think he interpreted the term "silly" as referring to the personalities of the team's personnel...

eaganmafia
12-16-09, 10:03 AM
I never thought a team could trade for Juan Pierre where it would only be their 3rd worst outfield acquision over the last 6 months.

SecretChiSoxFan
12-16-09, 11:58 AM
I never thought a team could trade for Juan Pierre where it would only be their 3rd worst outfield acquision over the last 6 months.

Alex Rios is brutal, no defending that one. Williams gave up nothing on return, that's the only positive thus far.

But are you saying Pierre isn't one of the top handful of leadoff men in the game? Name 5 better at hits, bunt hits, steals, and staying healthy? Speed guys who continually pull hammies are useless, this guy is a freak of health. Ozzie finally got his guy, it needs to pay off. He is no All Star, but available leadoff men are tough to find.

If you are including A. Jones, taking a flyer on him at basically the MLB minimum salary......what's the problem there? They should have kept DeWayne Wise instead?

pleasepassthesoup
12-16-09, 12:01 PM
Alex Rios is brutal, no defending that one. Williams gave up nothing on return, that's the only positive thus far.

But are you saying Pierre isn't one of the top handful of leadoff men in the game? Name 5 better at hits, bunt hits, steals, and staying healthy? Speed guys who continually pull hammies are useless, this guy is a freak of health. Ozzie finally got his guy, it needs to pay off. He is no All Star, but available leadoff men are tough to find.

If you are including A. Jones, taking a flyer on him at basically the MLB minimum salary......what's the problem there? They should have kept DeWayne Wise instead?

This past season was only the 2nd above average season in Pierre's career. Most years he is a horrendous leadoff hitter and a horrendous MLB hitter in general.

SecretChiSoxFan
12-16-09, 12:06 PM
I think he interpreted the term "silly" as referring to the personalities of the team's personnel...

Outside of AJ, who on the team is a nutcase? (AJ ain't all bad either.) Were Dye, Konerko, Buehrle, Thome, Peavy, and Quentin dancing around last year in lampshades and I wasn't made aware? The local sportswriters ALWAYS contend that this locker room is one of the most professional in the league day in and day out when they go in for player quotes. They actually feared Milton Bradley, Carlos Zambrano and the clubhouse on the other side of town, or so they say. Perhaps you all are confused, there are TWO teams in Chicago FYI. ;)

pleasepassthesoup
12-16-09, 12:09 PM
Outside of AJ, who on the team is a nutcase? (AJ ain't all bad either.) Were Dye, Konerko, Buehrle, Thome, Peavy, and Quentin dancing around last year in lampshades and I wasn't made aware? The local sportswriters ALWAYS contend that this locker room is one of the most professional in the league day in and day out when they go in for player quotes. They actually feared Milton Bradley, Carlos Zambrano and the clubhouse on the other side of town, or so they say. Perhaps you all are confused, there are TWO teams in Chicago FYI. ;)

Not so much on the field, but Ozzie (personality) and Ken Williams (decision making) are pretty silly.

SecretChiSoxFan
12-16-09, 12:59 PM
Not so much on the field, but Ozzie (personality) and Ken Williams (decision making) are pretty silly.

Yea. Look at Kenny Williams team finishes the last 15 years or so and compare. Nothing silly about contending for your division about 70% of the time. Results are results.

eaganmafia
12-16-09, 01:26 PM
Alex Rios is brutal, no defending that one. Williams gave up nothing on return, that's the only positive thus far.

But are you saying Pierre isn't one of the top handful of leadoff men in the game? Name 5 better at hits, bunt hits, steals, and staying healthy? Speed guys who continually pull hammies are useless, this guy is a freak of health. Ozzie finally got his guy, it needs to pay off. He is no All Star, but available leadoff men are tough to find.

If you are including A. Jones, taking a flyer on him at basically the MLB minimum salary......what's the problem there? They should have kept DeWayne Wise instead?

Those are some rose colored glasses you are looking through me boy...maybe I was a bit harsh on saying it was the 3rd worst, it's the 2nd behind Rios.

As for Juan, my god do you really believe one thing you just typed? Name 5 better , ok here we go...

Jeter
Span
Upton or Crawford
Ellsbury
Ichiro
McCutchen
Victorino
Bourn
Flower
Rollins (in a non-fluky BABIP season)
Morgan

And it's funny for all so-called great qualities you listed, it's funny how you forgot to mention the most important thing a leadoff hitter has to do which is GET ON BASE!!!!!!! (something Pierre isn't a big fan of) so enjoy that .330 OBP in the leadoff spot.

Bronson'sCornrows
12-16-09, 09:49 PM
Yea. Look at Kenny Williams team finishes the last 15 years or so and compare. Nothing silly about contending for your division about 70% of the time. Results are results.Juan Pierre = bad result.

kan_t
12-16-09, 10:01 PM
But are you saying Pierre isn't one of the top handful of leadoff men in the game? Name 5 better at hits, bunt hits, steals, and staying healthy? Speed guys who continually pull hammies are useless, this guy is a freak of health. Ozzie finally got his guy, it needs to pay off. He is no All Star, but available leadoff men are tough to find.

His last 5 season OPS+
84
82
77
75
105

He can steal. But he really needs to be the 2009 version for the Sox. If he is the 2005-2008 version, I don't know whether he can steal those 20 OPS+ to be an average offensive player.

His last 3 season UZR in CF
-3.1
0.4
-1.7

Slightly below average. So if the 2009 Pierre shows up, the Sox get an average CF. Not bad considering how much they pay for him. If the 2005-2008 Pierre shows up, good luck.

Steve Dalkowski
12-16-09, 10:04 PM
Juan Pierre is almost as good at stealing bases as he is at getting caught stealing bases.

kan_t
12-16-09, 10:07 PM
Juan Pierre is almost as good at stealing bases as he is at getting caught stealing bases.
Career 75 SB%

Not good, not bad.

Steve Dalkowski
12-16-09, 10:19 PM
Career 75 SB%

Not good, not bad.I think BP says 75% success is the cutoff where stolen bases stop being effective, so yeah he's barely squeaking by. Even the year when he lead the league with 65 SB he still only did it at a 76% clip.

I'm A Wenner!
12-17-09, 02:08 AM
I think BP says 75% success is the cutoff where stolen bases stop being effective, so yeah he's barely squeaking by. Even the year when he lead the league with 65 SB he still only did it at a 76% clip.

That number is dependent on the hitting ability of the rest of the lineup.

In either case, Pierre makes a tremendous number of out.

delv
12-17-09, 04:56 AM
That number is dependent on the hitting ability of the rest of the lineup.

In either case, Pierre makes a tremendous number of out.

Is out a mass-noun, now? Like water or sand?


Concerning J. Pierre... what's the best offensive stat that includes SB numbers? wRC+? That has him at 94. (as opposed to his OPS+ of 85)
Also, Pierre's contact rate is sick. 92.5% over his career. That's (significantly) higher than my contact rate in our central park softball league.

BronxYanks45
12-17-09, 01:36 PM
whats up with the white sox stocking up on OF'ers??

GordonGecko
12-17-09, 02:44 PM
I don't know but I foresee more Ozzie tantrums

IntangiblesRule
12-18-09, 02:52 PM
Juan Pierre is not a good baseball player. I would pull up the debates from the year the Marlins were trying to trade him, but he isn't valuable enough to warrant that use of time.

Snatch Catch
12-18-09, 03:03 PM
Is out a mass-noun, now? Like water or sand?


Concerning J. Pierre... what's the best offensive stat that includes SB numbers? wRC+? That has him at 94. (as opposed to his OPS+ of 85)
Also, Pierre's contact rate is sick. 92.5% over his career. That's (significantly) higher than my contact rate in our central park softball league.

wOBA or EqA both include the values of SB and CS in their calculations.

Pierre is below average in both.

Cuban Connection
12-19-09, 10:15 PM
Yea. Look at Kenny Williams team finishes the last 15 years or so and compare. Nothing silly about contending for your division about 70% of the time. Results are results.
It's a soft division.

Remember, Kenny once ended up with a career minor league OF Jeff Barry when he thought he was acquiring a young pitcher named Jon Berry.

Cuban Connection
12-19-09, 10:16 PM
whats up with the white sox stocking up on OF'ers??
Supposedly Ozzie wants to use a rotating DH which would be fine to protect a guy like Quentin, but he's talking about using Jones, Kotsay and even Vizquel in that spot.:eek:

SecretChiSoxFan
12-20-09, 06:19 PM
I heard a writer on XM say Williams wants to see how the rotating DH works and evaluate Quentin's ability to stay healthy all year until about mid-season. If he isn't happy then he'll add a bat at the trade deadline. Since nobody will run and hide in the Central by the All Star break and the rotation looks solid I don't think that's all that risky and it could save a few bucks I guess.

MVPMARTY
12-25-09, 03:18 PM
The White Sox organization have made strides this decade as far as building their brand - especially from a public relations standpoint, in addition to just marketing. Kenny Williams is a crafty GM and I appreciate that - unfortunately, they haven't capitalized since 2005 and that is disappointing.

Being from Chicago, I am stick to my stomach that both of our teams fail to be a consistent winner each year. I don't begrudge the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, Twins and etc. from competing each year... I just wish that the Chicago teams would.

Compared to previous decades, this decade was good for both teams as far as committing to winning, even though we only have 2005 to celebrate.

DaSh 1s
12-26-09, 03:40 PM
Kenny Williams is a crafty GM


Betemit, Juan Pierre, Rios, and Andruw Jones are without a doubt "crafty" moves.

ajra21
12-26-09, 05:21 PM
Betemit, Juan Pierre, Rios, and Andruw Jones are without a doubt "crafty" moves.

LOL. remember when the boss wanted pierre?

Slavenka
12-26-09, 07:55 PM
Selling very low on Swisher was crafty as well

mBiferi
12-27-09, 01:22 AM
Eh, 8M for 2 years of Pierre is not that bad altho pickin' up Rios was incredibly stupid.
Now, Kenny Williams is really bad but how about Colletti? Andruw, Pierre, Jason Schdmit... And Manny's contract is not looking pretty good either.

flymick24
12-27-09, 01:27 AM
kenny williams = village idiot

YankeePride1967
12-27-09, 08:54 AM
did Pierre learn how to steal first yet?

SecretChiSoxFan
12-30-09, 10:23 AM
Selling very low on Swisher was crafty as well


It was a salary dump for anyone not paying attention.

Yankeeah
12-30-09, 11:02 AM
It was a salary dump for anyone not paying attention.

Then less than a year later they take on:

Peavy: $15/$16/$17
Pierre: $10/8.5
Rios: $9.7/$12/$12/$12.5/$12.5

That doesn't include Peavy's $22 million or $4 million buyout for 2013 or Rios $13.5 or $1 million buyout for 2013.

Swisher's was nowhere near that and a much better player than Pierre and a better player than Rios.

I'm A Wenner!
12-30-09, 04:18 PM
It was a salary dump for anyone not paying attention.

A salary dump for a player signed to a reasonable contract whose value is at an all-time low and who immediately restores his value. This is exactly why Kenny Williams is a terrible GM.