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a-RobinsonCano-Fan
11-10-09, 03:07 PM
C - Joe Mauer (2)
1B - Mark Teixeira (3)
2B - Placido Polanco (2)
SS - Derek Jeter (4)
3B - Evan Longoria (1)
OF - Ichiro Suzuki (9)
OF - Torii Hunter (9)
OF - Adam Jones (1)

Congrats to our two yankee represntatives

a-RobinsonCano-Fan
11-10-09, 03:08 PM
Oh, and Buehrle is your P

JDPNYY
11-10-09, 03:10 PM
Posada dissed again.

b-ball-lunachick
11-10-09, 03:11 PM
Very happy for Tex...well deserved. :)
Jeter had a much better year defensively, but still seems odd that he would win.
I really hope Cano wins one next year.

NYYDragoon
11-10-09, 03:12 PM
I don't take this award seriously, but Robbie will get his in due time.

Mark19
11-10-09, 03:12 PM
As much as I love Jeter and Tex, they didn't deserve it, but what else is new? Neither did Adam Jones

a-RobinsonCano-Fan
11-10-09, 03:14 PM
I don't take this award seriously, but Robbie will get his in due time.

After Palmiero won over Tino in whatever year that was, its been hard to look at it seriously, i agree.

GordonGecko
11-10-09, 03:19 PM
Congrats to Jeter and Tex

GordonGecko
11-10-09, 03:19 PM
As much as I love Jeter and Tex, they didn't deserve it, but what else is new? Neither did Adam Jones
Tex didn't deserve it??

Mark19
11-10-09, 03:23 PM
Tex didn't deserve it??

Based on what I've seen Tex was an excellent defender but most metrics indicated that he was merely above average.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
11-10-09, 03:23 PM
Jeter? :lol:

Congrats to Tex.

NYYDragoon
11-10-09, 03:24 PM
Jeter? :lol:To his credit, it was more legit this year than the last times he won it.

JDPNYY
11-10-09, 03:25 PM
Jeter? :lol:

Congrats to Tex.

Palmiero got a few votes at SS and that swung things in Jete's favor.

Mark19
11-10-09, 03:27 PM
Jeter? :lol:

Congrats to Tex.

The metrics actually loved Jeter this year, and he did look better than in seasons past

yankeeman61
11-10-09, 03:33 PM
Metrics
:lol:

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
11-10-09, 03:34 PM
Based on what I've seen Tex was an excellent defender but most metrics indicated that he was merely above average.

I have trouble trusting defensive metrics, after seeing Tex play first this year.

Cool Papa B.
11-10-09, 03:38 PM
As much as I love Jeter and Tex, they didn't deserve it, but what else is new? Neither did Adam Jones

Teixeira made only four errors in 1,275 chances, to say nothing of the errors by other infielders he prevented with his wide-ranging scoops of errant throws. He posted a .997 fielding percentage in 2009

DEADSOX
11-10-09, 03:40 PM
I'm a man who loves his metrics, but I do not like nor trust defensive metrics that much. They've never seemed too reliable imo.

MassNYYfan
11-10-09, 03:41 PM
After Palmiero won over Tino in whatever year that was, its been hard to look at it seriously, i agree.

1999.

NYYDragoon
11-10-09, 03:43 PM
I have trouble trusting defensive metrics, after seeing Tex play first this year.He had a negative UZR at one point. Umm, what?


I'm a man who loves his metrics, but I do not like nor trust defensive metrics that much. They've never seemed too reliable imo.Baseball defense has infinite possibilities, so it's very hard to come up with a reliable number to capture it. That being said, most others are better than fielding percentage.

Mark19
11-10-09, 03:46 PM
Teixeira made only four errors in 1,275 chances, to say nothing of the errors by other infielders he prevented with his wide-ranging scoops of errant throws. He posted a .997 fielding percentage in 2009

Teixeira has had a huge positive impact on the team's infield defense, I'm just relaying that a number of defensive metrics seem to think he was pretty ordinary this season.

This is a pretty decent primer on the phenomenon

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/seeing-and-uzr-and-teixeira

pleasepassthesoup
11-10-09, 03:49 PM
My favorite defensive metric is to get a chimp drunk and see which name he throws feces at. He disagreed with UZR on almost all counts and somehow ended with Joseph Stalin getting the GG at thirdbase (sorry Longoria).

yankeeman61
11-10-09, 04:00 PM
Teixeira has had a huge positive impact on the team's infield defense, I'm just relaying that a number of defensive metrics seem to think he was pretty ordinary this season.

This is a pretty decent primer on the phenomenon

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/seeing-and-uzr-and-teixeira

Can someone explain what this means?


Advanced baseball stats often paint a contrarian picture of baseball. Whether it be a player’s value or a player’s skill level, they often do not agree with popular and mainstream thinking. On the other hand, sometimes they do agree with mainstream thinking, but just because they don’t doesn’t mean anything is wrong with the statistic.

Never mind. My head hurts already. I laugh in UZR's general direction.

DEADSOX
11-10-09, 04:13 PM
This thread is about to go all sabermetric, I can already see it.

themgmt
11-10-09, 04:17 PM
Jeter earned it this year.

GordonGecko
11-10-09, 04:44 PM
A GG is more art than stat anyways. Any human baseball fan with two eyes would have given that award to Tex

Yankee Tripper
11-10-09, 06:00 PM
loved this one from Neyer



At second base, the voters chose Placido Polanco (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3888) because he made only two errors all season. Polanco is a pretty good second baseman, but nowhere near as good as Dustin Pedroia (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6393), who won the award last year


So despite playing 60 fewer innings than Pedrioa, Polanco had more putouts, more assists, turned more double plays, committed fewer errors, had better a range factor, zone ratings and UZR/150 numbers then Pedrioa which begs the question, how is Neyer even paid write this drivel? Polano was simply better than Pedrioa by every measure possible, it's not really that close at 2B in the AL. Some years you could make a case for Mark Ellis but he had down year feilding.

JapanJobbers
11-10-09, 07:27 PM
Wow, I can't believe Gutierrez didn't get it. He impresses with stats and with scouts.

Jeter is racking up some GG's. This year did seem well deserved.

b-ball-lunachick
11-10-09, 07:45 PM
loved this one from Neyer


So despite playing 60 fewer innings than Pedrioa, Polanco had more putouts, more assists, turned more double plays, committed fewer errors, had better a range factor, zone ratings and UZR/150 numbers then Pedrioa which begs the question, how is Neyer even paid write this drivel? Polano was simply better than Pedrioa by every measure possible, it's not really that close at 2B in the AL. Some years you could make a case for Mark Ellis but he had down year feilding.
B-b-b-but Pedroia DIVES! for EVERYTHING. :D Even balls he will not come close to like this one:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08qw49AddigO7/610x.jpg

BeantownYankee
11-10-09, 07:59 PM
Can someone explain what this means?



Never mind. My head hurts already. I laugh in UZR's general direction.
There are those who sit back and enjoy a game, and then there are others that watch the game see the final score 5-2 but aren't convinced one team beat the other because the stats show that the losing team should have one...simular to when a past Red Sox manager after loosing the division to the Yankees felt his team won because they spent more games in 1st place....:D

YanksFan1992
11-10-09, 08:20 PM
Congrats Tex and Jeter! :clap:

MassNYYfan
11-10-09, 10:34 PM
loved this one from Neyer


So despite playing 60 fewer innings than Pedrioa, Polanco had more putouts, more assists, turned more double plays, committed fewer errors, had better a range factor, zone ratings and UZR/150 numbers then Pedrioa which begs the question, how is Neyer even paid write this drivel? Polano was simply better than Pedrioa by every measure possible, it's not really that close at 2B in the AL. Some years you could make a case for Mark Ellis but he had down year feilding.

Yeah but does Polanco play on the worst field in the game?

MassNYYfan
11-10-09, 10:51 PM
B-b-b-but Pedroia DIVES! for EVERYTHING. :D Even balls he will not come close to like this one:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08qw49AddigO7/610x.jpg


http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4038/loldive.jpg

YankeeSteel
11-10-09, 10:56 PM
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4038/loldive.jpg

Ha Ha - It's not that he's diving, he's only 12 inches tall - it's called reaching.:P

b-ball-lunachick
11-10-09, 11:08 PM
a little off topic but this is the best Red Sox dive of all time courtesy of Kapler:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/MiamiKat1/kaplerftl.gif

so close! :lol:

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
11-10-09, 11:49 PM
^I was just about to go look for that. :lol:

YankeeSteel
11-11-09, 12:06 AM
a little off topic but this is the best Red Sox dive of all time courtesy of Kapler:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/MiamiKat1/kaplerftl.gif

so close! :lol:

You guys are killing me tonight - gonna get me in trouble - At least you didn't post it in the Red Sox 3.0 Thread :eek:

Stick Michael
11-11-09, 12:50 AM
I don't usually read anything that Neyer writes, but I decided to read his column today and I'm glad I did because I got a good laugh out of it. While crying a river about how Youkilis should've been this year's Gold Glove first baseman, he apparently forgot that he played less than half of his team's games at that position.

Youk deserved this year's Gold Glove every bit a much as Rafael Palmeiro did in 1999...maybe even a little more so!

Reference: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youklke01.shtml

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
11-11-09, 01:55 AM
I don't usually read anything that Neyer writes, but I decided to read his column today and I'm glad I did because I got a good laugh out of it. While crying a river about how Youkilis should've been this year's Gold Glove first baseman, he apparently forgot that he played less than half of his team's games at that position.

Youk deserved this year's Gold Glove every bit a much as Rafael Palmeiro did in 1999...maybe even a little more so!

Reference: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youklke01.shtml

When the ball is attracted to you by the gravitational force of your head, it doesn't count.

teknetic
11-11-09, 02:38 AM
Forget Youk, Franklin Gutierrez got absolutely jobbed.

27.1 UZR/150, next closest was Upton at 11.8

Torri Hunter: -2.1

:lol:

pinstripesphanatic
11-11-09, 04:45 AM
Jeter earned it this year.

Exactly.

Congrats to them both. :clap:

35Knucklecurve
11-11-09, 08:51 AM
a little off topic but this is the best Red Sox dive of all time courtesy of Kapler:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/MiamiKat1/kaplerftl.gif

so close! :lol:
OMG - that is hysterical. He needs a GPS in his glove.

After the voters gave the CG to Palmeiro at 1B after he played 28 games there, I never take anything for granted. They got it right this season....not even close. Tex was off the charts this year. As for Jeet - not bad for somebody with the worst range in the majors. Way to go guys!

LazyEyeLou
11-11-09, 10:41 AM
loved this one from Neyer


So despite playing 60 fewer innings than Pedrioa, Polanco had more putouts, more assists, turned more double plays, committed fewer errors, had better a range factor, zone ratings and UZR/150 numbers then Pedrioa which begs the question, how is Neyer even paid write this drivel? Polano was simply better than Pedrioa by every measure possible, it's not really that close at 2B in the AL. Some years you could make a case for Mark Ellis but he had down year feilding.

Thanks for pointing this out, I came here specifically to address this...what nonsense.

BronxYanks45
11-11-09, 01:37 PM
Robbie Cano will get his in due time but his in tough company, but yea Cano should have gotten it

Peanut
11-12-09, 01:02 AM
a little off topic but this is the best Red Sox dive of all time courtesy of Kapler:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/MiamiKat1/kaplerftl.gif

so close! :lol:

LOL. But #1 still has to be Manny's diving interception of Damon's throw.


And GG votes are a joke. But its nice for the guys who won.

CoyoteYankee
11-12-09, 10:48 AM
LOL. But #1 still has to be Manny's diving interception of Damon's throw.




That is one of my favorite video clips of all time.

I :roflmao: every time I even think about it.

b-ball-lunachick
11-12-09, 11:56 AM
That is one of my favorite video clips of all time.

I :roflmao: every time I even think about it.
I'm not sure if you can still access it here - I'm at work but the clip is on the right:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2004/tyib/tyib_awards_blooper.jsp

CoyoteYankee
11-12-09, 12:48 PM
I'm not sure if you can still access it here - I'm at work but the clip is on the right:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2004/tyib/tyib_awards_blooper.jsp

Thanks! Can't watch it at work but I'll probably have a nice laugh with it later tonight.

YankeeSteel
11-12-09, 12:55 PM
I think it's impart why Youkilis get's gold glove sympathy - he's goofy, with a capital 'G', every catch is from his ass, knees, shins, rolling over, in the dirt, and bumbling, stumbling back to the base with no hat... which makes the play appear to be more dramatic. :eek:

Tex has the same wild throws and lightning fast frozen rope hit's coming his way too... he's just not rolling all over the ground to make a play... looks a simpler... Don Mattingly also made tough plays look easy.

Steve Dalkowski
11-12-09, 01:20 PM
I think it's impart why Youkilis get's gold glove sympathy - he's goofy, with a capital 'G', every catch is from his ass, knees, shins, rolling over, in the dirt, and bumbling, stumbling back to the base with no hat... which makes the play appear to be more dramatic. :eek:

Tex has the same wild throws and lightning fast frozen rope hit's coming his way too... he's just not rolling all over the ground to make a play... looks a simpler... Don Mattingly also made tough plays look easy.I'd say Youkilis won the GG in '07 because he made no errors in 135 games at first base, not because of how goofy he looked.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
11-12-09, 01:24 PM
I'm not sure if you can still access it here - I'm at work but the clip is on the right:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2004/tyib/tyib_awards_blooper.jsp

Doesn't work.

Philip Hughes Fan
11-12-09, 02:13 PM
RE UZR: it's far from perfect obviously, and it's going to miss on players, but just because it's not 100% accurate doesn't mean it's useless. There was a very good discussion on this on BTF recently:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/nyt_forman/

If you don't want to read the whole thread, just search for posts by tango (co-author of "The Book" along with the creator of UZR, MGL)

He talks about Tex being one of the players UZR just seemed to miss on this year, although it typically has him as one of the best 1B in the majors. It's also important to remember that UZR captures less of a 1B's defensive skills than other positions too, since it doesn't account for saved throwing errors.

YankeeSteel
11-12-09, 02:47 PM
I'd say Youkilis won the GG in '07 because he made no errors in 135 games at first base, not because of how goofy he looked.

It's not based on pure stats...

bigjf
11-12-09, 03:00 PM
Posada dissed again.

I hope that's a joke.

Cano, on the other hand was dissed.

Peanut
11-12-09, 04:24 PM
If you are just focusing on UZR stats (and using that as a reason the Jeter selection wasn't as bad as its been in years past), I don't see how you can suggest Cano should win a GG...his UZR this yr wasn't good.

That said I'm not sure how much I buy into those stats. I don't think Jeter was as good or Tex as mediocre as those numbers suggest.

delv
11-14-09, 01:26 PM
Cano is not even close to as good a 2B as Polanco. People need to stop.

Concerning Tex, he deserved the GG. UZR for 1B and catchers it known to be worthless.

Jeter played better than in the past. The best defensive SS this year was probably Elvis Andrus. No love.

Gutierrez did indeed get robbed.

unfamous loser
11-14-09, 11:30 PM
He talks about Tex being one of the players UZR just seemed to miss on this year, although it typically has him as one of the best 1B in the majors. It's also important to remember that UZR captures less of a 1B's defensive skills than other positions too, since it doesn't account for saved throwing errors.

this isn't necessarily true. he's been below average to some degree (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1281&position=1B) by UZR four out of the last five years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2009), which is why bringing it up actually has some value - it's not really a one year fluke thing at this point.

how much value is debatable, because, yes, it doesn't measure every single contribution a 1B can provide and it's a reasonable assumption that Tex provides enough outside of what it does try to measure to still be some type of asset with the glove.

it's not worthless, however, and most of the people claiming it is wouldn't be saying that if it agreed with what their fresh-from-Giambi eyes are supposedly telling them.

kan_t
11-14-09, 11:37 PM
Cano is not even close to as good a 2B as Polanco. People need to stop.

Concerning Tex, he deserved the GG. UZR for 1B and catchers it known to be worthless.

Jeter played better than in the past. The best defensive SS this year was probably Elvis Andrus. No love.

Gutierrez did indeed get robbed.
The biggest mistake this year was that Gutierrez was not on the list. He seriously got robbed. The choice of Jeter was at least acceptable (finally). Andrus was properly better but his errors really killed his chance.

Now I will have a big problem if Jeter wins next year. Wilson should blow him away defensively.

Philip Hughes Fan
11-15-09, 11:27 PM
this isn't necessarily true. he's been below average to some degree (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1281&position=1B) by UZR four out of the last five years (2005, 2006, 2007, 2009), which is why bringing it up actually has some value - it's not really a one year fluke thing at this point.

how much value is debatable, because, yes, it doesn't measure every single contribution a 1B can provide and it's a reasonable assumption that Tex provides enough outside of what it does try to measure to still be some type of asset with the glove.

it's not worthless, however, and most of the people claiming it is wouldn't be saying that if it agreed with what their fresh-from-Giambi eyes are supposedly telling them.

You're right of course, and I confused it with Dewan's numbers. From tango in post 135 of that thread I linked:

Just to add Dewan’s Runs Saved numbers from 2007 through 2009 to date (Bill James Online):

Pujols 50
Kotchman 34
Youkilis 19
Overbay 19
Teixeira 17

b-ball-lunachick
11-16-09, 04:41 PM
I find it funny that Peter Gammons is one of three votes (including Bill James) that vote for the Bill James' Fielding Bible Awards. :D

Polanco came in 5th in their voting...

http://www.freep.com/article/20091115/SPORTS02/911150526/1050/SPORTS/Polanco-5th-at-2B-in-Bill-James-fielding-awards