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leutbneot
12-19-08, 05:32 PM
The 2009 Yanks 'pen is looking amazing, a far cry from the Farnsworthless pens of recent years. Just wanted to get thoughts on how people would set the pen up, given that we have so many viable options.

CL: Rivera (did you know that Mariano posted the HIGHEST ERA+ of his CAREER last year? The man is inhuman)
SU: Veras / Marte
RP: Robertson
RP: Bruney
RP: Edwar
RP: Coke (LOVE this guy)
Long man: Giese or Aceves, depending on who wins the #5 spot in the rotation.

Anyway, we have some BALLERS in relief. They're young, cost-controlled for the most part, and we have some really awesome lefties that don't just throw hard, they throw strikes. Does anyone think another team can compete with this pen? Or, alternately, how would you guys structure the pen if you vision is different than mine?

TheHugeUnit2
12-19-08, 05:35 PM
You have 8 guys in the bullpen, I think thats to much.

Mo
Bruney/Marte mixing and matching in the 8th
Edwar Ramirez in the 7th, DO NOT USE HIM AGAINST THE ANGELS!!!! He had a 2.00 ERA last year against all other teams.
Coke as the second lefty
Robertson
As for the long man, I guess Giese.

THEBOSS84
12-19-08, 05:36 PM
I am not as confident in the pen as many of you are.

We don't have any relief "aces"..at all. Relievers are too volatile for me to believe in all of these guys.

Any of these guys can turn into a pumpkin next year. Marte obviously has the best track record, so I don't think he falls under the pumpkin category.

Of course Melancon has relief ace written all over him, but maybe not in his first season in the bigs.

TheHugeUnit2
12-19-08, 05:37 PM
Any of these guys can turn into a pumpkin next year. Marte obviously has the best track record, so I don't think he falls under the pumpkin category.
Yeah, but there is so much depth even in the minors, you got to be able to find 5 other guys out of like 22. I'd personally like to see Garcia made into a RP.

NelsonMuntz
12-19-08, 05:40 PM
Don't sleep on Melancon and Sanchez (Humberto).

leutbneot
12-19-08, 05:42 PM
You have 8 guys in the bullpen, I think thats to much.


Yeah, I'm just brainstorming right now. It's actually pretty cool... we have SO many good options that there are more great pitchers than slots to put them! It's a good problem to have. It's the long-promised fruits of developing a bunch of high-ceiling pitchers in the farm all coming together at once.

Ahhh the Hot Stove season. My favorite time to be alive!

Yankee Tripper
12-19-08, 05:43 PM
I am not as confident in the pen as many of you are.

We don't have any relief "aces"..at all. Relievers are too volatile for me to believe in all of these guys.

Any of these guys can turn into a pumpkin next year. Marte obviously has the best track record, so I don't think he falls under the pumpkin category.

Of course Melancon has relief ace written all over him, but maybe not in his first season in the bigs.
I like the volume and the fact that most of them can easily spend time on SWB-NYY shuttle if need be.

There are clearly some good arms in the group it is a matter of will they perform or not. If nothing else, other than Rivera & Marte they all come cheap.

CallOfTheCrow
12-19-08, 05:44 PM
Plus there's JB Cox if he can return to form, Anthony Claggett & Steven Jackson too. Jackson really seemed to have find his niche in the pen, especially after developing that splitter.

THEBOSS84
12-19-08, 05:46 PM
I like the volume and the fact that most of them can easily spend time on SWB-NYY shuttle if need be.

There are clearly some good arms in the group it is a matter of will they perform or not. If nothing else, other than Rivera & Marte they all come cheap.

I think they should sell high on Veras this offseason. His WHIP was terrible last year, not sure how he had a sub-4 ERA.

CanoForPresident
12-19-08, 05:47 PM
Yeah, but there is so much depth even in the minors, you got to be able to find 5 other guys out of like 22. I'd personally like to see Garcia made into a RP.

thats a pretty interesting idea. His stuff would be that much nastier as a reliever.

NelsonMuntz
12-19-08, 05:53 PM
Plus there's JB Cox if he can return to form, Anthony Claggett & Steven Jackson too. Jackson really seemed to have find his niche in the pen, especially after developing that splitter.
Yep. Kevin Whelan as well.

TheHugeUnit2
12-19-08, 05:59 PM
thats a pretty interesting idea. His stuff would be that much nastier as a reliever.
Yes also better chance to stay healthy and with the additions of CC and Burnett he gets pushed even futher back in the chain.

Tifoso
12-19-08, 06:03 PM
Heir to Mo? (presuming Joba sticks in the rotation :D )

teknetic
12-19-08, 06:04 PM
I expect Edwar to be real good (again) asides from the Angels he was pretty dominant. I have my doubts about Veras, but Marte should be solid-good.

Yankee Tripper
12-19-08, 06:55 PM
I think they should sell high on Veras this offseason. His WHIP was terrible last year, not sure how he had a sub-4 ERA.
Depending on the return I'd pretty much deal anyone in the pen not named Mo.

primetime714
12-19-08, 07:01 PM
I think Melancon likely makes the opening day squad. He's just too good to be kept out and doesn't seem to have much more he needs to work on in AAA.

I also think that Coke may be kept as a starter to open the season just as a precaution in case for some reason we need a ton of starters again this year.

Giese vs Aceves vs Albaladejo for long man will probably be the best battle.

I think regardless who we have in there on opening day we're going to have a good pen this year. We just have too much quality depth not to.

Here how I see the pen panning out at least to open the year:

CL- Mo
SU- Marte
SU- Bruney
MR- Veras
MR- Edwar
MR- Melancon
LR- Giese

Waiting in AAA:
Albaladejo, Robertson, Coke (probably in AAA rotation), Sanchez, Claggett, Jackson.

R.V.47
12-19-08, 07:04 PM
Theres no reason why the pen shouldnt be a strength for us, between the big leagues and the farm its as deep as anyones in baseball. With Marte and Coke we can mix and match much better than previous years and we have a lot of different styles of pitchers down there. It was the only strength of the team last year and even though bullpen arms are one of the most random parts of baseball and cant be counted on for consistency, I think ours is one of the best.

Buzah!
12-19-08, 08:06 PM
The pen should be strong and deep, with more help down at AAA.

Yankees1962
12-19-08, 09:21 PM
The pen should be strong and deep, with more help down at AAA.
Yep and as I indicated in another thread, the strengthening of the 2009 starting staff should have a very positive effect on the bullpen as usage will be down compared to 2008.

primetime714
12-19-08, 11:49 PM
Theres no reason why the pen shouldnt be a strength for us, between the big leagues and the farm its as deep as anyones in baseball. With Marte and Coke we can mix and match much better than previous years and we have a lot of different styles of pitchers down there. It was the only strength of the team last year and even though bullpen arms are one of the most random parts of baseball and cant be counted on for consistency, I think ours is one of the best.

Totally agree. Plus the key to a good bullpen is depth and flexibility and we definitely have that. Last year we had a good pen despite injuries to key parts like Bruney and Albaladejo. Then guys like Ohledorf and Traber struggling. Then there was the shift of Joba to the rotation. With all the depth we had though we had guys like Veras, Edwar, and Giese really step up for us and even got good production out of Farnsworth.

This year we'll be in a similar situation, but this time I think we have even more depth than we did last year, so if anyone doesn't perform or gets injured we'll have replacements. The only guy we really need to stay healthy and effective is Mo. However I actually think we could survive for part of the season without him if he did get injured. Not for too long, but certainly a couple weeks or so.

grizy
12-20-08, 01:21 AM
We still don't really have a consistent 8th inning setup man like the Red Sox (Okajima)

Marte is good... and we have other options, but I do think we could use a near-closer type to bridge the gap between say... Joba and Mo.

surge511
12-20-08, 01:31 AM
Marte has a proven track record as a year in, year out presence. He will be fine. The other guys have all shown either flashes or extended periods of success, so I'm sure there will be some shuffling going on in April/May to find a good mix. The one thing we do have is depth, so hopefully out of the mass of relievers, we can find a few good ones that Joe can consistently depend on.

As for the "ace" type 8th inning guy, if it's not Marte or Bruney, I think we all expect Melancon to emerge sometime this season as that guy. Hopefully it happens.

leutbneot
12-20-08, 04:55 AM
Heir to Mo? (presuming Joba sticks in the rotation :D )

NOT as big a deal as your emotions would make it seem. I feel the same way... Mo has left such an indelible mark on my psyche, I definitely feel like we need a shutdown closer that's the best in the league. Always.

However, this emotion runs up against my hatred of the idea of putting Joba in the pen. As soon as I think about wasting Joba like that, I realize that our cheap, AAA and AA options (Melancon, Claggett, Sanchez, JB Cox, etc) will provide similar value without wasting truly valuable pitchers on 1-inning stints where their skills are wasted.

Think about it. Joba is awesome. Would you rather him him pitch 200 innings or 70 innings?

teknetic
12-20-08, 09:44 AM
We still don't really have a consistent 8th inning setup man like the Red Sox (Okajima)

Marte is good... and we have other options, but I do think we could use a near-closer type to bridge the gap between say... Joba and Mo.

I'll take my chances with Melancon and Marte.

surge511
12-20-08, 10:31 PM
The bottom line is no one will ever replace Mo, including Joba. And losing Mo one day will be catastrophic. However, the Mets proved this winter that finding top flight closers is not impossible. I'm sure the FO understands how important the closer role is, and will never let someone not qualified be closing games.

With that, Joba should absolutely remain a starter, at least for the time being. He has lights-out stuff, command of all his pitches, and a great mentality.

It may be that his body can't hold up to a 210 IP season every year. If that's the case, he can always move back to the pen. However, we have no way of knowing that yet, and Joba has proven to have ace-type stuff. If he is durable, we need him in the rotation long-term without question.

NYYFutures17
12-20-08, 10:36 PM
Don't forget we still have Robertson, Sanchez, Melancon, Horne, J.B. Cox. We could see all of those guys fluctuating in and out of the pen in '09.

jesterno2
12-21-08, 12:03 AM
i like everyone else love the depth we have, i mean when we can non-tender a solid guy like britton (guy produced whenever he got shots, inexplicable why he never stuck...) you know we have depth. i would even say the depth we have in the rotation could start causing problems with guys like hughes and aceves really making cases for a big league spot. i see things shaking out like this

mo
veras - nasty stuff, hopefully he really turns the corner and harnesses it
marte - proven, consistent
eram - love his ability to get the strikeout/groundball
coke - nasty and lh... if he cant stick as a starter he could be dirty here
bruney - guys unhittable, if he can cut down the walks he's our 8th guy
robertson - still learning and maybe AAA but i like what i saw last year

i personally think theres no room for giese barring injury. i think aceves would be a better option as a long man and rotation insurance (hughes needs to either have a rotation spot or be in AAA to not waste development time) and using 8 spots on pen pitchers, especially with our old @ss team is impractical. i could see melancon, sanchez and cox all making cases and taking names by midseason so we've got some interesting decisions to make but i could see cash money using some of these guys in trades as well.

aceves + veras for ankiel anyone?

NYYFutures17
12-21-08, 12:13 AM
aceves + veras for ankiel anyone?
Nah, aceves actually knows how to pitch. + ankiel plays a dreadful CF

cyhughes22
12-21-08, 12:46 AM
To start the year:
LR: Giese
MR:Veras
MR:Melancon
MR:Coke
MR:Robertson
SU:Marte
CP: Rivera

To finish the year and hopefully into the playoffs:
LR:Giese
MR:Sanchez
MR:Robertson
MR:Coke
MR:Marte
SU:Melancon
CP: Rivera

The nice thing about the guys I've put together in these bullpens is that with the exception of Giese, they all strike out a ton of guys. Of course we have to see how Sanchez and Melancon(who will be closing ballgames for us in 2 years mark my words) acclimate to the big leagues but this bullpen could set a record for K's in a year.

Edit: Crap, I realized that I completely forgot Bruney but that just speaks to how deep this pen could be for us.

CallOfTheCrow
12-21-08, 12:48 AM
I wouldn't be stunned if Mike Dunn ended up a LH reliever for us down the stretch.

KeithF40
12-21-08, 01:56 AM
CLOSER-Rivera

SU/MR
Marte
Bruney
Veras
Ramirez

Bruney has injury issues, veras always brings up question marks, marte hasn't proven he can pitch in al east yet, and ramirez seems to still have some problems with messing up(i like how he gets on himself but might do it too much)

With all those problems though you still gotta like how they have 4 legitimate guys to pitch in two slots(7th and 8th)

If two really pan out then that is nice and anyway on top of that would just give us more flexibility(always a good thing)

long relief-geise(i think he is a really good long reliever, i have no problem even handing the ball over to him once in a while to save some innings off some starters when we play bad teams)

R.V.47
12-21-08, 01:10 PM
Strangely, Buster Olney reports the yankees may actually have some interest in Brian Fuentes.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/olney-latest-on.html

ajra21
12-21-08, 01:41 PM
Strangely, Buster Olney reports the yankees may actually have some interest in Brian Fuentes.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/olney-latest-on.html

if you read the article on espn, he acknowledges that the yankees will probably spend their money elsewhere.

teknetic
04-10-09, 07:41 PM
10ip 0h 0r 12k

Rocketbooster
04-10-09, 08:55 PM
10ip 0h 0r 12k

Wow......and the Mets pen will get all the attention. Oh well - performance is the only thing that counts, not headlines.

diehardyankeefan
04-10-09, 09:51 PM
10ip 0h 0r 12k
That excludes the 1st game right?

Yankees1962
04-10-09, 09:53 PM
That excludes the 1st game right?
Knowing what happened in that game did you have to ask?

By the way, there was a hit today that should've been an error by Cano.

ThunderFan
04-11-09, 02:22 AM
That excludes the 1st game right?It should considering that The "homer" that Coke gave up should've clearly been an out.

TheGameEpisode2
04-11-09, 02:43 PM
Anybody else wishing that Joba was in the pen? When Bruney came in the 8th, all I could think of was "Oh man...I wish Joba was here to face the beasts known as Miguel Olivo, Alberto Callaspo, and Coco Crisp!"





;)

Shanghai Bob
04-11-09, 09:14 PM
Thanks for ruining the shutout Veras....

Mark19
04-11-09, 09:16 PM
Haven't seen Marte in a while, would have made sense to bring him in against the two lefties in the 9th. Don't want him getting cold and then being asked to give 2 innings like last year.

Rocketbooster
04-11-09, 09:32 PM
Thanks for ruining the shutout Veras....


It's not a big deal to me - it would have been nice, but they won the game. In the end, that's the only thing that counts. I just didn't love the leadoff walk with a 6 run lead.

Rocketbooster
04-11-09, 09:33 PM
Haven't seen Marte in a while, would have made sense to bring him in against the two lefties in the 9th. Don't want him getting cold and then being asked to give 2 innings like last year.

I suspect the pen will be used tomorrow with Joba on the mound

ThunderFan
04-12-09, 12:41 AM
Anybody else wishing that Joba was in the pen? When Bruney came in the 8th, all I could think of was "Oh man...I wish Joba was here to face the beasts known as Miguel Olivo, Alberto Callaspo, and Coco Crisp!"





;)Yeah but Joba has that "bulldog" "closer" mentality. He probably would've gotten those guys out in 10 pitches instead of the pathetic 17 that Bruney threw.

Casius
04-12-09, 12:50 AM
I am curious to know why Marte hasn't pitched for so long. It seemed like the perfect opportunity tonight with a comfortable lead. I hope he isn't feeling any lingering effects from that injury he suffered during the WBC.

Yankee fans seem down on him because he hasn't pitched especially well here, but it hasn't been such a good sample, and he has a good track record with great stuff. I hope he gets more of a chance to prove himself soon.

ThunderFan
04-12-09, 12:56 AM
I am curious to know why Marte hasn't pitched for so long. It seemed like the perfect opportunity tonight with a comfortable lead. I hope he isn't feeling any lingering effects from that injury he suffered during the WBC.

Yankee fans seem down on him because he hasn't pitched especially well here, but it hasn't been such a good sample, and he has a good track record with great stuff. I hope he gets more of a chance to prove himself soon.I think becuase Girardi agrees that Coke is better than him.

Shanghai Bob
04-12-09, 04:14 AM
I am curious to know why Marte hasn't pitched for so long. It seemed like the perfect opportunity tonight with a comfortable lead. I hope he isn't feeling any lingering effects from that injury he suffered during the WBC.

Yankee fans seem down on him because he hasn't pitched especially well here, but it hasn't been such a good sample, and he has a good track record with great stuff. I hope he gets more of a chance to prove himself soon.

That's my hope as well. Hopefully tomorrow he'll get his shot against some lefties. Unless it's close in which case i prefer my Coke.

BBombers85
04-12-09, 03:43 PM
....I get the feeling this ones gonna be livid today

JBursch23
04-12-09, 03:54 PM
....I get the feeling this ones gonna be livid today

And it should be.
Do any of those guys strike confidence in anybody?

Veras and Bruney have too many walks.
Marte hasn't been effective other than today.
Coke has struggled in his first few appearances this year.

Other than Rivera, it's a weak bullpen. Just because you throw hard doesn't mean you're effective--we haven't figured that out yet (Nelson, Mendoza, Stanton we're flame-throwers by any means).

rtb07
04-12-09, 03:56 PM
i can deal with Hughes as the 5 if we never lose a game like this again.

Casius
04-12-09, 04:12 PM
And it should be.
Do any of those guys strike confidence in anybody?

Veras and Bruney have too many walks.
Marte hasn't been effective other than today.
Coke has struggled in his first few appearances this year.

Other than Rivera, it's a weak bullpen. Just because you throw hard doesn't mean you're effective--we haven't figured that out yet (Nelson, Mendoza, Stanton we're flame-throwers by any means).They've statistically performed well over a long period. One game doesn't change that—especially since it could have easily been averted if Girardi remembered to put in his brain this morning.

If Joba hadn't pitched a good game, who knows if it would've been a game at all by the 8th.

ArodMVP217
04-12-09, 04:22 PM
hindsight is always 20:20...

better options:
leave buney in. but he saw 3 lefties in a row, so i get that
leave marte in vs BButler. this is teh ML.
let Veras finish what he started. is it so outrageous to think that it would take awhile for him to get his control in the cold rain?
Mo for 4 outs is probably the last option early in the season, although it too would have worked

I just don't want Girardi to turn into a TOrre an micromanage everything

jeterdaman
04-12-09, 04:28 PM
The bullpen is going to be our issue all season long. Offense, Pitching, defense has all been upgraded. The bullpen seemed like an afterthought. It's going to put a lot of pressure on our starters to go atleast 7-8 inning every single start.

JBursch23
04-12-09, 04:43 PM
The bullpen is going to be our issue all season long. Offense, Pitching, defense has all been upgraded. The bullpen seemed like an afterthought. It's going to put a lot of pressure on our starters to go atleast 7-8 inning every single start.

I agree. If there is going to be an issue that holds us back its our MRP. They're all guys who walk guys. That's the biggest issue for me.

NelsonMuntz
04-12-09, 04:50 PM
The bullpen is going to be our issue all season long. Offense, Pitching, defense has all been upgraded. The bullpen seemed like an afterthought. It's going to put a lot of pressure on our starters to go atleast 7-8 inning every single start.
You mean the same bullpen that allowed 1 ER (which actually should have been unearned) in 10+ innings the previous 3 games? If this is our biggest problem then we're in pretty good shape.

Rocketbooster
04-12-09, 05:09 PM
You mean the same bullpen that allowed 1 ER (which actually should have been unearned) in 10+ innings the previous 3 games? If this is our biggest problem then we're in pretty good shape.

One game and the **** hits the fan. I wonder if other teams in baseball history have blown 1 run leads. I'm not sure - I'll have to look it up. Sheesh, lol. Now all of a sudden, the Yankees are in trouble, they can't beat Tampa, they have to face Kazmir - the pen today is going to lead to a collapse on the part of the whole team.....oh brother.

Bostonsfavson
04-12-09, 05:56 PM
i can deal with Hughes as the 5 if we never lose a game like this again.


So you want Joba in the bullpen? That won't solve anything. Plus, When Hughes is out after 5 1/3 innings and 4 earned runs, the bullpen will really be whipped. These games happen. The bullpen is fine.

primetime714
04-12-09, 06:29 PM
hindsight is always 20:20...

better options:
leave buney in. but he saw 3 lefties in a row, so i get that
leave marte in vs BButler. this is teh ML.
let Veras finish what he started. is it so outrageous to think that it would take awhile for him to get his control in the cold rain?
Mo for 4 outs is probably the last option early in the season, although it too would have worked

I just don't want Girardi to turn into a TOrre an micromanage everything

Yea Girardi really screwed the pooch here. Which is surprising too because his bullpen management has generally been very good especially in comparison to Torre.

Bringing in Coke was about the worst thing he could've done. You don't bring in a rookie reliever in a 1-run game with a runner on base. Especially with a switch hitter up. If this was a lefty that struggled against lefty pitchers maybe, but the matchups did not favor brining in Coke. Veras has experience in these situations and while he does give up walks not many guys get hits off of him. The options at that point were clearly to give Veras another batter or bring in Mo. Coke should not be brought into a 1-run game this late. At least not until he proves he can handle these type of pressure situations. As for Mo I understand the desire for him not to have to get 4 out saves, but in a 1-run game sometimes you have to go to him a little early. If we had a 2-run lead or more you can hold off on bringing in Mo, but in this situation you need to lock down that win and with the game on the line you put your HOF closer out there not some rookie with a nice arm.

Yankee Fan in Boston
04-12-09, 06:36 PM
hindsight is always 20:20...

better options:
leave buney in. but he saw 3 lefties in a row, so i get that
leave marte in vs BButler. this is teh ML.
let Veras finish what he started. is it so outrageous to think that it would take awhile for him to get his control in the cold rain?
Mo for 4 outs is probably the last option early in the season, although it too would have worked

I just don't want Girardi to turn into a TOrre an micromanage everything

Obviously, it's easy in hindsight, but I hate when managers overthink the righty/lefty matchups. I am fine taking Bruney out, but you are not paying Marte $4 million/year to be a LOOGY. And if you really have to make the change there, I agree -- stay with Veras until Mo. As you bring in more and more guys, we are getting deeper into the pen and the matchups are getting worse for us.

That said, Girardi is generally been very good with the pen, so it's hard to complain too much, and I trust he'll do a good job managing the pitchers this year,

Rocketbooster
04-12-09, 06:44 PM
Yea Girardi really screwed the pooch here. Which is surprising too because his bullpen management has generally been very good especially in comparison to Torre.

Bringing in Coke was about the worst thing he could've done. You don't bring in a rookie reliever in a 1-run game with a runner on base. Especially with a switch hitter up. If this was a lefty that struggled against lefty pitchers maybe, but the matchups did not favor brining in Coke. Veras has experience in these situations and while he does give up walks not many guys get hits off of him. The options at that point were clearly to give Veras another batter or bring in Mo. Coke should not be brought into a 1-run game this late. At least not until he proves he can handle these type of pressure situations. As for Mo I understand the desire for him not to have to get 4 out saves, but in a 1-run game sometimes you have to go to him a little early. If we had a 2-run lead or more you can hold off on bringing in Mo, but in this situation you need to lock down that win and with the game on the line you put your HOF closer out there not some rookie with a nice arm.

Mo is coming off surgery - I don't think you chance him this early in the season coming into bad weather. Even in good weather......no dice. My initial reaction after the game was to go to Mo, but I changed my mind.

primetime714
04-12-09, 08:15 PM
Mo is coming off surgery - I don't think you chance him this early in the season coming into bad weather. Even in good weather......no dice. My initial reaction after the game was to go to Mo, but I changed my mind.

Is 4-outs really that much different than 3 especially with how efficient he is?

Normally I would agree with not bringing him in the 8th, but with the game on the line you have to go to your best pitcher there.

The weather shouldn't have been a factor because he was coming in for the 9th anyway.

Even if you don't go to Mo (which they should've) there's no excuse for going to a rookie. You got Marte who has a ton of experience in the 8th inning, you got Veras who pitched many 8th innings last year, and you also have Edwar in the bullpen who might be a good matchup for a switch hitter as a righty with a great changeup. Even Albaladejo is a better option as more of a groundball pitcher. Coke was literally the worst person to bring in, in that situation.

Yankees1962
04-12-09, 08:17 PM
Is 4-outs really that much different than 3 especially with how efficient he is?

Normally I would agree with not bringing him in the 8th, but with the game on the line you have to go to your best pitcher there.

The weather shouldn't have been a factor because he was coming in for the 9th anyway.

Even if you don't go to Mo (which they should've) there's no excuse for going to a rookie. You got Marte who has a ton of experience in the 8th inning, you got Veras who pitched many 8th innings last year, and you also have Edwar in the bullpen who might be a good matchup for a switch hitter as a righty with a great changeup. Even Albaladejo is a better option as more of a groundball pitcher. Coke was literally the worst person to bring in, in that situation.
I disagree with you about using Rivera today. I'm going to give Girardi the benefit of the doubt about extending him this early in the season by having him warm up twice (8th & 9th) in that weather. However, I agree with your other points.

Yankee Fan in Boston
04-12-09, 08:19 PM
Is 4-outs really that much different than 3 especially with how efficient he is?

Normally I would agree with not bringing him in the 8th, but with the game on the line you have to go to your best pitcher there.

The weather shouldn't have been a factor because he was coming in for the 9th anyway.

Even if you don't go to Mo (which they should've) there's no excuse for going to a rookie. You got Marte who has a ton of experience in the 8th inning, you got Veras who pitched many 8th innings last year, and you also have Edwar in the bullpen who might be a good matchup for a switch hitter as a righty with a great changeup. Even Albaladejo is a better option as more of a groundball pitcher. Coke was literally the worst person to bring in, in that situation.

It's different b/c he has to sit in the dugout between innings and go out and pitch again. I am fine with his decision not to use Mo till the 9th, but I am not happy with the way the inning was managed otherwise.

Rocketbooster
04-12-09, 09:04 PM
Is 4-outs really that much different than 3 especially with how efficient he is?

Normally I would agree with not bringing him in the 8th, but with the game on the line you have to go to your best pitcher there.

The weather shouldn't have been a factor because he was coming in for the 9th anyway.

Even if you don't go to Mo (which they should've) there's no excuse for going to a rookie. You got Marte who has a ton of experience in the 8th inning, you got Veras who pitched many 8th innings last year, and you also have Edwar in the bullpen who might be a good matchup for a switch hitter as a righty with a great changeup. Even Albaladejo is a better option as more of a groundball pitcher. Coke was literally the worst person to bring in, in that situation.

Someone else mentioned on another board that bringing in Mo would have required that he sit down for the top of the 9th and then warm up again coming out for the bottom of the inning........too many warm ups. I think it was a good point.

A poster I respect very much on Pete's board (SJ44) said this:

I think Joe is going to spend the month trying these guys in various situations and see who emerges as guys he can count on.

In today’s baseball, bullpens, absent the closer, are very fluid things. I think its important not to be set in your ways on how to use guys because its too early in the season to know what you have.

As Billy Beane says, you spend 1/3 of your season figuring out who you are, 1/3 of your season filling holes, and 1/3 of your season making your run to the playoffs.

I don’t think the Yankees are going to spend 1/3 of their season figuring out their bullpen. I do however think they will spend the month of April figuring out the roles for the guys, and we will set more of a set rotation in the ‘pen by May.

** I agree with this

grizy
04-12-09, 10:23 PM
That's a crock of something. All of that crap is only true because most teams, like the Yankees, don't have good setup men since almost by necessity those that would be good in that role get turned into closers or starters.

You know, like how we converted Joba into a starter.

Rocketbooster
04-12-09, 10:55 PM
That's a crock of something. All of that crap is only true because most teams, like the Yankees, don't have good setup men since almost by necessity those that would be good in that role get turned into closers or starters.

You know, like how we converted Joba into a starter.

So, if most teams don't have good set up men, then the role IS fluid until the team can settle on one. I don't see how you've proven your point that that post is a crock. It doesn't matter WHY it's true, just that it's true. Bruney/Marte are expected to be the major 8th inning guys - that post was in response to my question about Coke and whether he should be used in less visible situations for the time being (because he's still basically a rookie and inexperienced). I actually agree with the sentiment behind Beane's statement.......and the Yankees have a lot of arms to test this theory.

primetime714
04-13-09, 12:06 AM
Someone else mentioned on another board that bringing in Mo would have required that he sit down for the top of the 9th and then warm up again coming out for the bottom of the inning........too many warm ups. I think it was a good point.

A poster I respect very much on Pete's board (SJ44) said this:

I think Joe is going to spend the month trying these guys in various situations and see who emerges as guys he can count on.

In today’s baseball, bullpens, absent the closer, are very fluid things. I think its important not to be set in your ways on how to use guys because its too early in the season to know what you have.

As Billy Beane says, you spend 1/3 of your season figuring out who you are, 1/3 of your season filling holes, and 1/3 of your season making your run to the playoffs.

I don’t think the Yankees are going to spend 1/3 of their season figuring out their bullpen. I do however think they will spend the month of April figuring out the roles for the guys, and we will set more of a set rotation in the ‘pen by May.

** I agree with this

I agree with the sentiments that early in the season often times a lot of things particularly bullpen roles are something you need to figure out. However you still have to use your best judgment based on what you know at the time. Guys like Marte and Veras have been in these types of situations before and have had success. Why are you running away from these guys for a rookie? Coke is a guy that has to earn his way into these type of innings. What he did last year and in ST was not enough. And it wasn't even a lefty up it was a switch hitter that he was coming into face.

As for Mo I get the fact that he would've had to get up and sit down, but it wouldn't be the first time he's done it and if he is sitting for a while in the top of the 9th maybe the team scores a bunch of runs and he isn't even needed to close out the game (altho he probably would've anyway). My thought is that in the 8th inning in a 1 run game with a runner on you gotta lock that down.

Still I wouldn't have even been that quick to bring in Mo. I would've stuck with Veras for at least another batter. He's consistently shown an ability to get out of jams and pitch in key situations and was outstanding at the beginning of last year.

Rocketbooster
04-13-09, 07:19 AM
I agree with the sentiments that early in the season often times a lot of things particularly bullpen roles are something you need to figure out. However you still have to use your best judgment based on what you know at the time. Guys like Marte and Veras have been in these types of situations before and have had success. Why are you running away from these guys for a rookie? Coke is a guy that has to earn his way into these type of innings. What he did last year and in ST was not enough. And it wasn't even a lefty up it was a switch hitter that he was coming into face.

As for Mo I get the fact that he would've had to get up and sit down, but it wouldn't be the first time he's done it and if he is sitting for a while in the top of the 9th maybe the team scores a bunch of runs and he isn't even needed to close out the game (altho he probably would've anyway). My thought is that in the 8th inning in a 1 run game with a runner on you gotta lock that down.

Still I wouldn't have even been that quick to bring in Mo. I would've stuck with Veras for at least another batter. He's consistently shown an ability to get out of jams and pitch in key situations and was outstanding at the beginning of last year.

Well, maybe Joe wanted to see what Coke was made of , but yeah you're right -probably a bad decision. I don't love that Joe took Veras out and didn't allow him tow work out of his own "jam", which wasn't even a terrible one as it was just one guy on first. Still, the pitchers just did not get it done, period. Veras can't walk that guy, he just can't and Coke was not facing a HOFer.

primetime714
04-13-09, 08:52 AM
Well, maybe Joe wanted to see what Coke was made of , but yeah you're right -probably a bad decision. I don't love that Joe took Veras out and didn't allow him tow work out of his own "jam", which wasn't even a terrible one as it was just one guy on first. Still, the pitchers just did not get it done, period. Veras can't walk that guy, he just can't and Coke was not facing a HOFer.

I agree. My major problem with the move was that if you want to see what Coke is made of and if he can handle those types of situations you have to ease him into them. You don't bring a rookie into a 1-run game in the eighth with runners on base to face a switch hitter unless you have to. If you want to see what Coke is made of bring him in late in a 2 or 3 run game to face a lefty or two.

As for Veras a lot of people will get on him for walking that guy and I agree he has to buckle down more and avoid those. However in this situation I really have to say shame on Girardi for not knowing his pitcher. Veras is not a 1 batter matchup guy because all too often he is going to walk that batter. If you bring him in there you have to give him a chance to get the next guy out. Yes, Veras walks way too many guys but he often gets out of the jams he creates and he doesn't give up that many hits. With that in mind you stick with him figuring that the probable worst case scenario is that he walks another guy and I can go to Mo or Edwar or someone else to get that final out in the 8th.

Also with a switch hitter up why not go to Edwar instead of Coke? I know Edwar doesn't exactly have ice water in his veins, but you have to like a righty with a great changeup against a switch hitter. Even Albaladejo makes more sense because he'll throw strikes and keep the ball on the ground.

Bringing in Coke was probably the worst possible move Girardi could've made and that's why it bugs me so much. The pitchers have to get the job done, but the manager has to put those pitchers in positions where they will succeed. Girardi didn't do that.

Rocketbooster
04-13-09, 05:35 PM
I agree. My major problem with the move was that if you want to see what Coke is made of and if he can handle those types of situations you have to ease him into them. You don't bring a rookie into a 1-run game in the eighth with runners on base to face a switch hitter unless you have to. If you want to see what Coke is made of bring him in late in a 2 or 3 run game to face a lefty or two.

As for Veras a lot of people will get on him for walking that guy and I agree he has to buckle down more and avoid those. However in this situation I really have to say shame on Girardi for not knowing his pitcher. Veras is not a 1 batter matchup guy because all too often he is going to walk that batter. If you bring him in there you have to give him a chance to get the next guy out. Yes, Veras walks way too many guys but he often gets out of the jams he creates and he doesn't give up that many hits. With that in mind you stick with him figuring that the probable worst case scenario is that he walks another guy and I can go to Mo or Edwar or someone else to get that final out in the 8th.

Also with a switch hitter up why not go to Edwar instead of Coke? I know Edwar doesn't exactly have ice water in his veins, but you have to like a righty with a great changeup against a switch hitter. Even Albaladejo makes more sense because he'll throw strikes and keep the ball on the ground.

Bringing in Coke was probably the worst possible move Girardi could've made and that's why it bugs me so much. The pitchers have to get the job done, but the manager has to put those pitchers in positions where they will succeed. Girardi didn't do that.

Agreed - I really don't want the pen guys like Veras to start losing confidence because they don't think Joe any confidence in them. I'm afraid that Joe might be starting to get uptight under all the pressure and now is trying to tinker with something that didn't need tinkering with.

JeffWeaverFan
04-13-09, 06:51 PM
The start Wang is having thus far right now is exactly why I wanted a longman in the pen. Ideally for Veras' spot.

CyYoung4Vazquez
04-13-09, 06:56 PM
Ian Kennedy and Brett Tomko have started the season well.

JeffWeaverFan
04-13-09, 06:58 PM
Ian Kennedy and Brett Tomko have started the season well.
Tomko had a great spring too. He should be on this team.

NelsonMuntz
04-13-09, 07:50 PM
I'm guessing Albaladejo gets sent down in favor of Tomko or Aceves after this game.

Rocketbooster
04-13-09, 07:57 PM
I'm guessing Albaladejo gets sent down in favor of Tomko or Aceves after this game.

I still like Alby, but yes. We desperately need reinforcements...This is a good team; it's not fair to put them under this kind of pressure every 5th day and it's not fair to risk the guys in the pen by stretching them beyond their capabilites.

Micky Rivers's Bat
04-13-09, 10:48 PM
Bring Tomko up.

hardrain
04-15-09, 10:40 AM
I find it very odd that Marte has only pitched 1 inning so far in 8 games.

wang+cano=future
04-16-09, 10:40 AM
Looks like Robertson is up to replace Nady.....

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

Stache Fan
04-16-09, 10:45 AM
Looks like Robertson is up to replace Nady.....

http://yankees.lhblogs.com/

:clap: We could always use another reliever...But I wonder why J-Rod or another outfielder wasn't called up? :-shrug-:

primetime714
04-16-09, 10:59 AM
:clap: We could always use another reliever...But I wonder why J-Rod or another outfielder wasn't called up? :-shrug-:

I was thinking Miranda for an extra bat, but I'm not opposed to giving Robertson a spot.

NelsonMuntz
04-16-09, 02:38 PM
Is Marte ever going to pitch again?

hardrain
04-16-09, 02:43 PM
Is Marte ever going to pitch again?

really...only one inning all year so far, makes you wonder why.
at this point there has been too much time between appearances for him to be sharp.

CyYoung4Vazquez
04-16-09, 02:49 PM
Veras has been dreadful so far this season.

CyYoung4Vazquez
04-16-09, 03:02 PM
Solid job today pen. Way to open the new stadium.

JavyVazquezIsSick
04-16-09, 03:03 PM
We don't need Juan Cruz

Since95
04-16-09, 03:05 PM
Mark Melancon please stand up... please stand up.. could you please stand up!!
Brett Tomko.. please stand up.. please stand up... could you please stand up!!
Afredo Aceves.. please stand up.. please stand up.. could you please stand up!!

CallOfTheCrow
04-16-09, 03:05 PM
Mark Melancon please stand up... please stand up.. could you please stand up!!
Brett Tomko.. please stand up.. please stand up... could you please stand up!!
Afredo Aceves.. please stand up.. please stand up.. could you please stand up!!

Tomko & Aceves?

NelsonMuntz
04-16-09, 03:06 PM
Oy, I'm sorry I asked. But in all seriousness, how can we expect Marte to stay sharp when he never pitches? This type of outing was practically inevitable based on his inactivity.

StatenIslandYankee
04-16-09, 03:07 PM
This bullpen scares me ...

CyYoung4Vazquez
04-16-09, 03:09 PM
Of course it's only a matter of time before the Joba talk starts again.

JavyVazquezIsSick
04-16-09, 03:09 PM
Maybe we can trade for Cruz

pinstripesphanatic
04-16-09, 03:10 PM
As I said in the GT, hideous. I don't trust Veras or Marte one bit.

Huktonfonix
04-16-09, 03:17 PM
Of course it's only a matter of time before the Joba talk starts again.

Joba pitching the 8th inning would have prevented today's 7th inning disaster how exactly? You can't use only 2 relievers all season. Not that logic or reason make a difference to the "Joba to the pen" crowd, but...

Marte has been one of the premiere setup men in baseball for a long time, and one of the few who is consistently good year-to-year, and it seems like he's been horribly misused since coming to the Yankees. He's not a LOOGY. You can't pitch him once every 2 weeks and expect good results. Unless his injury from last year has carried over, he should be used regularly or not at all.

Eschie
04-16-09, 03:22 PM
What ever happened to Sanchez?

CallOfTheCrow
04-16-09, 03:23 PM
What ever happened to Sanchez?

In EST I believe.

wardsp
04-16-09, 03:32 PM
How did pitching become our weakness?

:dunno:

MTYankee23
04-16-09, 03:34 PM
How did pitching become our weakness?

:dunno:

It wouldn't be if our best pitchers were the ones on the ML roster, but at this point having options was the thing keeping Robertson and Melancon in Scranton. A bullpen of Rivera, Bruney, Edwar, Robertson, Melancon, Marte, and Coke would be pretty good in the long term.

Brick Tamland
04-16-09, 04:08 PM
Joba pitching the 8th inning would have prevented today's 7th inning disaster how exactly? You can't use only 2 relievers all season. Not that logic or reason make a difference to the "Joba to the pen" crowd, but...

Marte has been one of the premiere setup men in baseball for a long time, and one of the few who is consistently good year-to-year, and it seems like he's been horribly misused since coming to the Yankees. He's not a LOOGY. You can't pitch him once every 2 weeks and expect good results. Unless his injury from last year has carried over, he should be used regularly or not at all.


I think that's what Cy was trying to say.

I'm just annoyed at the way Joe has managed the 'pen so far. I don't know how he can sit in the dougout and watch Veras pitch in that spot without a handle of Jack beside him to ease the nerves.

Since95
04-16-09, 04:10 PM
Tomko & Aceves?
I was just making fun... after what I saw from veras and marte.. anybody please stand up!!

yankswn23
04-16-09, 04:16 PM
Garbage..I dont trust anyone to get me outs but Rivera and sometimes Bruney..Id rather have us have Joba hold us more close games then this bullpen will blow when he has leads or ties going into the 6th and we have to piece together the bridge to Rivera..as great as a starter he is.. ist phill hughes capable of bing our fifth guy..or lets trade some people and get some damn bullpen help this was sick to watch today..

wang+cano=future
04-16-09, 04:18 PM
I think it is a very small sample size to start worrying too much about the bullpen. However, if Veras and Edwar continue this trend, we will see Robertson and Melancon take their places. I can see Cox, Steven Jackson or Tomko in the long man spot getting a shot as well........

mal1219
04-16-09, 04:19 PM
I was just making fun... after what I saw from veras and marte.. anybody please stand up!!

I agree. I got scared after Veras walked the first batter. I also had a feeling Sizemore was gonna hit that grand slam, although I thought it would be against Coke.

Kay said on YES that the team came in quite late after delays in St. Pete and having to wait in New York. Not only the bullpen, but everybody looked quite flat. Hopefully that will change tomorrow. I still believe in the bullpen, but maybe we can call up Chris Britton instead of Jose Veras. Also, by what time would Humberto Sanchez be available?

mal1219
04-16-09, 04:21 PM
I think it is a very small sample size to start worrying too much about the bullpen. However, if Veras and Edwar continue this trend, we will see Robertson and Melancon take their places. I can see Tomko and Steven Jackson getting a shot as well........

Can you clarify what is wrong with Edwar?

Huktonfonix
04-16-09, 04:23 PM
I think that's what Cy was trying to say.

I'm just annoyed at the way Joe has managed the 'pen so far. I don't know how he can sit in the dougout and watch Veras pitch in that spot without a handle of Jack beside him to ease the nerves.

Ya, I was quoting him for emphasis, not to argue. I hope that was clear.

wang+cano=future
04-16-09, 04:30 PM
Can you clarify what is wrong with Edwar?

It is a very small sample size but he has pitched 3.1 innings and have given up 5 hits and 3 walks.

JohnnyDamonfan
04-16-09, 04:31 PM
Can you clarify what is wrong with Edwar?

You know I was thinking the same thing. The score was still 1-1 when Edwar was in there. It was some of the pitchers who pitched AFTER Edwar that were the problem.

Brick Tamland
04-16-09, 04:43 PM
Ya, I was quoting him for emphasis, not to argue. I hope that was clear.


Sorry. I'm not too quick on the draw today I guess.

yank4life2005
04-16-09, 05:24 PM
Marte can't be 100% cause he is not THIS bad.

JOBA RULES
04-16-09, 06:02 PM
Marte can't be 100% cause he is not THIS bad.

He's been bad for 2 years, he has not done a thing in pinstripes. Lets not make him out to something he's not, he can be this bad he's terrible.

bmxstreetrider86
04-16-09, 06:19 PM
He's been bad for 2 years, he has not done a thing in pinstripes. Lets not make him out to something he's not, he can be this bad he's terrible.


he was hurt last year and tried pitching through it, he had a 2.96 FIP for us last year



he was terrible today, thats for sure

ThunderFan
04-16-09, 06:20 PM
I think it is a very small sample size to start worrying too much about the bullpen. However, if Veras and Edwar continue this trend, we will see Robertson and Melancon take their places. I can see Cox, Steven Jackson or Tomko in the long man spot getting a shot as well........Edwar got 2 soft ground balls. Leave him alone.

BW51
04-16-09, 07:34 PM
how long till the joba back in the pen talk from the newspapers???

i've never been a veras fan, so today didn't rattle me all that much. it's what i expect of him. I think I was ultra-excited last year when we got marte, but frankly, he hasn't done a think in pinstripes to make me believe in him...hey, even felix heredia escape a bases loaded jam with no out against the red sox (jeter into the stands game?)

i do like robertson (tho his fastball can be straight at times) and from the little i've seen of coke (including last year), i like what I see

dougj1
04-16-09, 08:28 PM
Why be upset with the pen? The problems are nothing new....In 2008 they used 19 relievers, in 2007 they used 21, in 2006 they used 23, in 2005 they used 18, in 2004 16....The parade will get started again soon. Asking Cashman to put together a quality pen is like asking a blind man to thread a needle.

Rocketbooster
04-16-09, 08:30 PM
Oy, I'm sorry I asked. But in all seriousness, how can we expect Marte to stay sharp when he never pitches? This type of outing was practically inevitable based on his inactivity.

Completely agree. I just don't like Joe's handling of the pen thus far - he's done a 180 from last year. This year, he's got quick hooks and seems to strongly favor a few (like Coke). Last year, he engendered confidence in all of the pen guys by not putting them in the doghouse after a few bad performances. He gave them chances and they rewarded his faith. If he overuses Bruney, Coke, etc......, then this Joe is no better than the other Joe.

Rocketbooster
04-16-09, 08:34 PM
It wouldn't be if our best pitchers were the ones on the ML roster, but at this point having options was the thing keeping Robertson and Melancon in Scranton. A bullpen of Rivera, Bruney, Edwar, Robertson, Melancon, Marte, and Coke would be pretty good in the long term.

I still want to see Melancon do it on the big league level. He's never thrown a pitch up here and people (not saying you) expect him to be the pen's savior. He'll have his good moments (because he's obviously talented), but he'll have his struggles as well. Same with Robertson..........

Rocketbooster
04-16-09, 08:36 PM
I think it is a very small sample size to start worrying too much about the bullpen. However, if Veras and Edwar continue this trend, we will see Robertson and Melancon take their places. I can see Cox, Steven Jackson or Tomko in the long man spot getting a shot as well........

What has Edwar done wrong?

wang+cano=future
04-16-09, 08:50 PM
:lol: Forget I mentioned Edwar......I guess I guess was watching him at the wrong times this year when he got pulled early.

NelsonMuntz
04-16-09, 09:37 PM
:lol: Forget I mentioned Edwar......I guess I guess was watching him at the wrong times this year when he got pulled early.
Too small of a sample size to draw any real conclusions but FWIW I don't think he's been terribly impressive: 3.1 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 4 K. That's a pretty ugly WHIP.

chelloveck
04-16-09, 11:19 PM
I dunno guys I'm getting tired of losing all of those big games when the national spotlight is on. I'll always stand by my team but too many embarrassments in the past few years.... ugh!

JohnnyEllis
04-16-09, 11:32 PM
This is by far the worst bullpen Cashman has ever assembled, which is saying something. 10 games in and all but the truest believers are already looking for Plan B out there. A monkey could have thrown $250 million at CC and AJ to improve our starting pitching. Can this GM walk and chew gum at the same time? Zero thought (unless you call signing Marte to a three-year deal thoughful) was put into the bullpen, and it already shows.

teknetic
04-16-09, 11:44 PM
This is by far the worst bullpen Cashman has ever assembled, which is saying something. 10 games in and all but the truest believers are already looking for Plan B out there.

It's the same pen as last year minus Joba(offset by a healthy Bruney and promotion of Melancon) they were abused all year with the garbage starters we were tossing out and they were still amongst the league leaders in every major category.


A monkey could have thrown $250 million at CC and AJ to improve our starting pitching.

A monkey could have also put together a more well thought out post.

JohnnyEllis
04-17-09, 12:12 AM
It's the same pen as last year minus Joba(offset by a healthy Bruney and promotion of Melancon) they were abused all year with the garbage starters we were tossing out and they were still amongst the league leaders in every major category.

Same pen that collapsed after the All-Star break in '08 and was statistically resurrected when we were out of the race (that's when Marte shines) and when Joba came back in September...do we really have to go through this again? It's already apparent that you and your ilk failed to appreciate the shortcomings of this group, because you still don't know what happened. Then again, you obviously do realize something is wrong because it's April and you're already pushing a kid who was just promoted to AAA to come up here and save the same group that was supposedly so great last year.

On another note, somebody tell Jose Veras that the season has started:


"It's better to be bad now than later in the season, when the team needs me for real," Veras said.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spybar1712663749apr16,0,384066.story

grizy
04-17-09, 05:36 AM
Uh... I did say the bullpen is our weakness. But it's really not that bad relative to MLB in general (although our bridge to the closer is probably shakier than Rays and Red Sox)

Even now I think Marte is a decent signing. His numbers are not that impressive but if they were, he'd have been converted to closer or starter sometime ago. The only way you gonna get relievers of higher quality is through trades and accidentally finding them from the farm system, which is essentially what Cashman is trying.

I have a bigger issue with Girardi not giving Marte a chance to let him do his job. He already made the same mistake with Edwar last year. I don't know why he's doing it again with Marte.

Going by stats and splits are all fine and well, but Girardi needs to understand how his actions' impact on the numbers and stop being a slave to L/R L/R.

It's true Torre probably took the whole "heartbeat of the game" thing too far, but Girardi certainly seems to be taking it too far in the other direction too.

Rocketbooster
04-17-09, 08:31 AM
Same pen that collapsed after the All-Star break in '08 and was statistically resurrected when we were out of the race (that's when Marte shines) and when Joba came back in September...do we really have to go through this again? It's already apparent that you and your ilk failed to appreciate the shortcomings of this group, because you still don't know what happened. Then again, you obviously do realize something is wrong because it's April and you're already pushing a kid who was just promoted to AAA to come up here and save the same group that was supposedly so great last year.

On another note, somebody tell Jose Veras that the season has started:

That's a terrible, terrible quote. Is he kidding?

BRNXBMRS
04-17-09, 08:34 AM
Do Marte & Veras make it till Memorial day?

BW51
04-17-09, 08:46 AM
Do Marte & Veras make it till Memorial day?

at least one of them will, if i had a guess, veras won't


i think all-star break is a better time frame for giving him the boot

wang+cano=future
04-17-09, 08:49 AM
Do Marte & Veras make it till Memorial day?

Considering Marte's contract I would assume he will remain on the team.......Hopefully he can turn it around.

THEBOSS84
04-17-09, 08:50 AM
What a terrible contract Marte has.

NewEraYanks2527
04-17-09, 09:04 AM
I'd like to see Marte come in with a lead that is say 3-4 runs in the 7th and get an entire inning. Maybe he does well, gets a little confidence back and he can build on his success. Just my two cents.

Huktonfonix
04-17-09, 09:12 AM
If relief pitchers were consistently good, by and large they would be starters.

If GMs could actually predict which relievers would be good year-to-year, they'd be gods.

If you look at most teams who are lucky enough to be able to point to their bullpen as a strength, most of the guys who have great seasons sucked the year before and will suck again the year after.

Expecting the Yankees to have their bullpen figured out, finalized, and working well on April 15th is silly.

THEBOSS84
04-17-09, 09:13 AM
If relief pitchers were consistently good, by and large they would be starters.

If GMs could actually predict which relievers would be good year-to-year, they'd be gods.

If you look at most teams who are lucky enough to be able to point to their bullpen as a strength, most of the guys who have great seasons sucked the year before and will suck again the year after.

Expecting the Yankees to have their bullpen figured out, finalized, and working well on April 15th is silly.

Hellllllllo Tampa 2008...

JohnnyDamonfan
04-17-09, 09:14 AM
Even the Red Sox bullpen isn't that spectacular aside from Papelbon and especially not this early.

Huktonfonix
04-17-09, 09:39 AM
Hellllllllo Tampa 2008...

Hello 2007 Red Sox, 2005 White Sox, etc etc.

You build a good bullpen by having a lot of options and not tying up your budget on guys who were good 2 seasons ago. It's all about flexibility and letting the cream rise to the top. Trying to predict relief performance one year to the next is a fool's game.

JeffWeaverFan
04-17-09, 10:29 AM
Given that Veras does have options, I do not get why he is still on this team over Robertson.

Yankees1962
04-17-09, 10:31 AM
Given that Veras does have options, I do not get why he is still on this team over Robertson.
Veras is out of options and Pete is wrong with that comment.

jeterdaman
04-17-09, 10:41 AM
Even the Red Sox bullpen isn't that spectacular aside from Papelbon and especially not this early.

With Masterson in the pen along with Delcarmen and Ramon Ramirez they are much better than our pen. I would proably take them over anyone we have except for Mo.

BRNXBMRS
04-17-09, 12:38 PM
What about bringin Melancon up, he is on fire.

mrbawm
04-17-09, 01:19 PM
Melancon will be up. I agree with whoever talked about putting Marte and Veras in during low leverage situations. See if they can get fixed up right there.

NelsonMuntz
04-17-09, 01:54 PM
I still say Marte will be fine if he is used regularly. You can't expect a pitcher to be sharp when he pitches 1 inning in 9 days.

TheBamTino24
04-17-09, 03:36 PM
Much better day today against the Indians, obviously: 4.1 IP, 3 H, 0 BB, 5K.

Outstanding.

We'll see how it goes; the good thing is that we have options if the middle relief falters.

dabomb2045
04-17-09, 03:39 PM
Good job today by Coke/Alby/Bruney. As of right now, I feel comfortable with Bruney and Alby handling the 7th-8th....I have confidence in both.

Rocketbooster
04-17-09, 04:07 PM
Alby has done very well - for some reason, many folks don't like him, but IMO he's very solid.

just-blaze
04-17-09, 09:48 PM
With Masterson in the pen along with Delcarmen and Ramon Ramirez they are much better than our pen. I would proably take them over anyone we have except for Mo.

Agree to disagree.

JeffWeaverFan
04-18-09, 12:39 AM
Alby has done very well - for some reason, many folks don't like him, but IMO he's very solid.
To me I think that at best he's solid, but nothing great. Right now I trust Rivera, Bruney, Edwar, and Marte vs. leftys. Veras has scared the hell out of me every time he comes out for the second year in a row. I like Coke but not in a big spot, and I like Albaladejo but not in a big spot. I'd very much like to see Robertson take Veras' spot and Tomko to take Albaladejo or Coke's spot as I think a long reliever would be very useful.

ThunderFan
04-18-09, 12:51 AM
With Masterson in the pen along with Delcarmen and Ramon Ramirez they are much better than our pen. I would proably take them over anyone we have except for Mo.What the hell has Delcarmen ever done? He's been mediocre his entire career and Rameriz has had ONE good year in the majors. ONE.

ThunderFan
04-18-09, 12:52 AM
Alby has done very well - for some reason, many folks don't like him, but IMO he's very solid.He throws strikes.

Rocketbooster
04-18-09, 07:15 AM
To me I think that at best he's solid, but nothing great. Right now I trust Rivera, Bruney, Edwar, and Marte vs. leftys. Veras has scared the hell out of me every time he comes out for the second year in a row. I like Coke but not in a big spot, and I like Albaladejo but not in a big spot. I'd very much like to see Robertson take Veras' spot and Tomko to take Albaladejo or Coke's spot as I think a long reliever would be very useful.

I'm not going to judge Alby on whether he can get the job done in a big spot or not because he hasn't been placed in that position. All I know is that he gets the job done when he's asked to......I like Coke and while I wouldn't necessarily put him in a big spot (not his fault - he's young and still inexperienced), I'm not willing to send him down (and definitely not Alby). I like Robertson, but he's no savior and unless someone craps out, he stays in AAA for now.

The Yankees need a long man desperately. I think it's ridiculous that they are showing this much faith in Wang to have a good outing. If he does, great, but if he doesn't? Then the pen is toast and AJ will be required to give 7 or 8 innings even if he doesn't pitch well. It's not fair to place this burden on him.

NelsonMuntz
04-18-09, 11:02 AM
He throws strikes.
Yeah but too often those strikes are right down the middle of the plate. He's benefited from a fairly low BABIP thus far (.227). I like Alby but I wouldn't trust him in a big spot just yet.

OlgMvp
04-18-09, 11:03 AM
Bruney looked extremely dominant yesterday. Love that this guy could really work out for us...hopefully for an entire season.

JeffWeaverFan
04-18-09, 03:43 PM
Can they please call up Tomko? Either Tomko has to be called up or Hughes has to be called up to start for Wang once or twice. He should have been on the team to start the season, should definitely have been called up Wang's first start, and had to be called up after Wang's second start. I don't get what they are waiting for.

Rocketbooster
04-18-09, 05:08 PM
Wow, Edwar at 55 pitches? Wow Joe - that's terrible. Poor guy's arm is going to fall off - he won't be able to pitch for a week

I don't care how terrible Tomko is - get him up here now. I feel badly for the guys in the pen ........

Spiker101
04-18-09, 05:16 PM
They're going to have to do something along those lines with the stadium playing the way it is. Tomko can at least give them innings in blowout situations. The way this pen is constituted, they're going to break down by June.

Rocketbooster
04-18-09, 05:35 PM
They're going to have to do something along those lines with the stadium playing the way it is. Tomko can at least give them innings in blowout situations. The way this pen is constituted, they're going to break down by June.

Yep - I feel for these guys.

Casius
04-18-09, 05:45 PM
Man, I really worry about Edwar. Two Wang starts in a row, he's been forced to go 50+ pitches, and he's pretty much been a 1-2 inning reliever for many years now, AND he had a little arm trouble at the beginning of the year.

I don't think this whole situation has been handled very well by the organization.

primetime714
04-18-09, 06:38 PM
Can they please call up Tomko? Either Tomko has to be called up or Hughes has to be called up to start for Wang once or twice. He should have been on the team to start the season, should definitely have been called up Wang's first start, and had to be called up after Wang's second start. I don't get what they are waiting for.

Well they had to give Wang a chance to work this out at the ML level. However now enough is enough we have to go to Hughes. Tomko may be added as well. It depends on if Nady hits the 60 day DL though as we have no 40-man roster spots. Also it depends on if we feel Melancon is the better option for that 40-man roster spot.

Rocketbooster
04-18-09, 10:28 PM
Man, I really worry about Edwar. Two Wang starts in a row, he's been forced to go 50+ pitches, and he's pretty much been a 1-2 inning reliever for many years now, AND he had a little arm trouble at the beginning of the year.

I don't think this whole situation has been handled very well by the organization.

I think it was Alby who pitched last Wang outing.......did Edwar as well?

I agree - I think the whole thing has been handled terribly. I fear for these guys' arms - where the heck (and I wanted to use a stronger word) is the long man? I'm getting tired of Girardi's incessant optimism. I don't expect him to commit hari-kari, but please..........If Wang makes his next start, or only misses one start, I will be beyond furious. Just how fair is it to this team to put them in holes that no team could come back from? It's not - yet Joe and Cash don't seem to care. I can see them totally shredding AJ's arm as they force him to pitch 8 innings tomorrow when he doesn't have any stuff (not that I think he won't pitch well, but if he does struggle, I can see the Yankees pushing him). I say this (about shredding his arm) not because of AJ's injury history, but simply because they are too stupid to recall a long man and they don't want to burn the pen........and pushing a pitcher when he's tired and struggling isn't a good thing.

Whew rant over

Yankees1962
04-18-09, 10:29 PM
They're going to have to do something along those lines with the stadium playing the way it is. Tomko can at least give them innings in blowout situations. The way this pen is constituted, they're going to break down by June.
Are we talking about the same Tomko that has been a poor ML pitcher for over 10 years?

You guys need to review Tomko's record with most of it in the NL. Don't allow a few good innings in spring training mask the real record of this pitcher.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/tomkobr01.shtml

Spiker101
04-19-09, 01:05 AM
Are we talking about the same Tomko that has been a poor ML pitcher for over 10 years?

You guys need to review Tomko's record with most of it in the NL. Don't allow a few good innings in spring training mask the real record of this pitcher.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/tomkobr01.shtml

I said he can give you innings. I didn't say they'd be good innings. The guy's averaged 40 appearances and 189 innings a season. He's 35 or so, so you don't have to worry about ruining his career. With this stadium you simply have to have a mop up guy or the already fragile pen will be destroyed. In three games there's already been a nine-run inning and a 14-run inning.

NYBravest82
04-19-09, 01:31 AM
When fans regularly cheer for a right fielder to come in and pitch....that doesn't say good things about the rest of the season...especially when said right fielder has a better ERA then the rest of the pitching staff.

Yankees1962
04-19-09, 06:22 AM
I said he can give you innings. I didn't say they'd be good innings. The guy's averaged 40 appearances and 189 innings a season. He's 35 or so, so you don't have to worry about ruining his career. With this stadium you simply have to have a mop up guy or the already fragile pen will be destroyed. In three games there's already been a nine-run inning and a 14-run inning.
Right now, he's closing for SWB so he hasn't been stretched out since the Yankees left spring training.

JavyVazquezIsSick
04-19-09, 09:37 AM
That's pretty wise, he could potentially become an elite set up man for us.

yankeejohn
04-20-09, 08:22 AM
Wow, I just checked Melancon's numbers so far. If he could end up helping to split the late game load with Bruney soon, that would be awesome.

wang+cano=future
04-20-09, 09:36 AM
Melancon, Robertson and Tomko/Johnson need to be up. I know there are 40 man roster issues but that shouldn't prevent someone of Melancon's ability from helping the bullpen and providing a solid, reliable arm for Girardi to go to.

Hopefully Cash can make a trade to free up some space, get some some prospects back and DL Nady so we can actually solidify the pen.

mr.roy
04-20-09, 10:28 AM
Rollercoaster!

Yankee Fan in Boston
04-20-09, 10:29 AM
Melancon, Robertson and Tomko/Johnson need to be up. I know there are 40 man roster issues but that shouldn't prevent someone of Melancon's ability from helping the bullpen and providing a solid, reliable arm for Girardi to go to.

Hopefully Cash can make a trade to free up some space, get some some prospects back and DL Nady so we can actually solidify the pen.

I think it's a little early for them to bring Melancon up

wang+cano=future
04-20-09, 11:03 AM
I think it's a little early for them to bring Melancon up

Why? He is lights out in AAA and could give the Yanks a reliable arm in the pen.

Yankee Fan in Boston
04-20-09, 11:08 AM
Why? He is lights out in AAA and could give the Yanks a reliable arm in the pen.

They made a decision a few weeks ago that he would put some more time in in AAA, after he pitched very well there at the end of last year too... I doubt that anything has materially changed at this point... Short of an injury, I'd expect the guys already in the pen to be given a chance to work things out. Not saying he won't be up before the A.S. break, but I doubt it happens in April.

TheGameEpisode2
04-20-09, 11:18 AM
I bet Melancon is here by mid-May.


I like Edwar though, its not his fault he had to be stretched out further then he's ever been. If you look at the games he didn't have to pitch two or more innings (and throw 55 pitches...) he's been effective, and was so last year.

Hobie
04-20-09, 11:42 AM
I'm pretty sure they're only keeping Melancon in triple-A in order to get an extra year on his arbitration clock.

If they bringing him up after May 15th they get him an extra year for cheap.

NewEraYanks2527
04-20-09, 12:02 PM
I'm pretty sure they're only keeping Melancon in triple-A in order to get an extra year on his arbitration clock.

If they bringing him up after May 15th they get him an extra year for cheap. He and A-Rod will arrive together in May then :D

Yankee Tripper
04-20-09, 04:14 PM
I'm pretty sure they're only keeping Melancon in triple-A in order to get an extra year on his arbitration clock.

If they bringing him up after May 15th they get him an extra year for cheap.
I don't think $ is an issue with the Yankee's player personel decisions. Robertson was lights out last year too and picthed to 5+ ERA last season. Dominmating AAA not the same as dominating MLB. That said, he keeps it up at Scranton while others namely Veras, Edwar & Coke don't get the job done, he'll be up sooner rather than later.

Rocketbooster
04-20-09, 06:29 PM
I don't think $ is an issue with the Yankee's player personel decisions. Robertson was lights out last year too and picthed to 5+ ERA last season. Dominmating AAA not the same as dominating MLB. That said, he keeps it up at Scranton while others namely Veras, Edwar & Coke don't get the job done, he'll be up sooner rather than later.

Edwar has done ok - he can't be expected to be a long man (and hes' in essence been asked to do that twice) and Coke is pitching better..........

TheInfallibleOne
04-22-09, 09:37 PM
Any chance we can nab Pedro as a long man at a price that will keep him happy but not screw us over?

Rocketbooster
04-22-09, 10:31 PM
I'm really liking Alby.........

Yankee Fan in Boston
04-22-09, 10:32 PM
Any chance we can nab Pedro as a long man at a price that will keep him happy but not screw us over?

I don't think so... keep reading that he is holding out for $5 million

grizy
04-22-09, 11:03 PM
Any chance we can nab Pedro as a long man at a price that will keep him happy but not screw us over?

Pedro probably rather retire for good than take a long man job.

just-blaze
04-23-09, 12:41 AM
I don't think so... keep reading that he is holding out for $5 million

Well, if Marte is worth 4?

I don't think it matters at that price, its more that the Yankees like what they have in house currently.

ajra21
04-24-09, 05:18 AM
melancon will be up towards the end of may. i would consider having a long man up as well. personally, i'd have had giese with us out of ST, with alba down in AAA. veras is the wild card here. they really need him to pitch well. he has no options and will be claimed if they send him down.

Yankee Tripper
04-24-09, 11:10 AM
Edwar has done ok - he can't be expected to be a long man (and hes' in essence been asked to do that twice) and Coke is pitching better..........
I listed those 3 becuase they all had ERAs north of 7 at the time and all have MilB options left.

NelsonMuntz
04-24-09, 11:02 PM
Robertson will be up for tomorrow's game, per Girardi on the postgame show.

Rocketbooster
04-25-09, 12:12 AM
This pen is toast. They are all going to feel the effects of the overuse at some point down the line......

heyabbott
04-25-09, 10:01 AM
The numbers at Scranton are scary good for the pitchers.

JavyVazquezIsSick
04-25-09, 11:36 AM
It's going to be funny when we trade for Juan Cruz later in the year.

wang+cano=future
04-25-09, 12:08 PM
Mo
Marte
Coke
Veras
Edwar
Jackson
Robertson
Melancon

NelsonMuntz
04-25-09, 12:12 PM
Mo
Marte
Coke
Veras
Edwar
Jackson
Robertson
Melancon
And I have to believe Mo is unavailable today. Offense better score some runs.

wang+cano=future
04-25-09, 12:13 PM
And I have to believe Mo is unavailable today. Offense better score some runs.

Yeah I would agree. I would be surprised if Girardi went to Marte today as well. Ofcourse Girardi has surprised me a lot lately so you never know.

Edit: I forgot Alba......

So do we have 9 arms in the pen today?

Mo
Marte
Veras
Edwar
Alba
Coke
Robertson
Jackson
Melancon

That seems like a lol lot lot......

yankeesAZ
04-25-09, 07:11 PM
Mo
Marte
Coke
Veras
Edwar
Jackson
Robertson
Melancon

Mo
Pray
Pray
Pray
Pray
Pray
Pray
Keep Praying

dabomb2045
04-25-09, 07:11 PM
Or bullpen is complete and total garbage outside of Rivera. You cant trust any of these other guys---ZERO consistency. One game Alby will look great--then the next he is missing his spots by 4 feet and giving up bombs to Lowell. Marte is the definition if inconsistency.

Veras? 2 great outings then cant get anyone out today. If Edwar's change isnt dropping, its like glorified batting practice. Even Robertson is hanging curves to everyone as he enters the game today. These guys walk batters constsantly as well.

I'm sick and tired of not having a pen I can have faith in, and a pen that doesnt suck royally every other game.

Since95
04-25-09, 07:39 PM
So.. I guess next year the BullPen will be great...

goin for 27
04-25-09, 08:05 PM
I am with dabomb.

Mo. Of course I trust.

Bruney. Love him, but he is out now, and he has a pretty violent delivery, I hope he can stay healthy.

Coke. Developing, but I really like him.

EVERYONE ELSE - Nothing. I don't trust the lot of them.

NelsonMuntz
04-25-09, 09:08 PM
And I have to believe Mo is unavailable today. Offense better score some runs.
Mission accomplished. Who knew 11 wouldn't be enough.

goin for 27
04-26-09, 08:29 AM
We now have the highest bullpen ERA in the American League.:eek:

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_team_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=AL&statType=2&sitSplit=&timeSubFrame=2009&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

blumj
04-26-09, 09:54 AM
We now have the highest bullpen ERA in the American League.:eek:

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_team_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=AL&statType=2&sitSplit=&timeSubFrame=2009&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1
I think that's the whole pitching staff, not just bullpen. Or, can you turn that into just bullpen somewhow that I'm missing?

grizy
04-26-09, 10:44 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_team_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&statType=2&sitSplit=grp&timeSubFrame=2009&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

We're No. 28 out of 30 MLB teams in ERA out of the pen.

... BoSox, disturbingly, is No. 1.

grizy
04-26-09, 10:46 AM
I think that's the whole pitching staff, not just bullpen. Or, can you turn that into just bullpen somewhow that I'm missing?

Click on splits on the left and you can choose as Reliever. That will get you the pen.

JL25and3
04-26-09, 10:53 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_team_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&statType=2&sitSplit=grp&timeSubFrame=2009&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

We're No. 28 out of 30 MLB teams in ERA out of the pen.

... BoSox, disturbingly, is No. 1.Also tied for first in MLB for relief appearances, 4th in relief IP.

The real underlying problem isn't the bullpen, it's the rotation. If the starter were doing their jobs and providing the innings they should, the bullpen wouldn't be so overused and overexposed.

grizy
04-26-09, 11:07 AM
Also tied for first in MLB for relief appearances, 4th in relief IP.

The real underlying problem isn't the bullpen, it's the rotation. If the starter were doing their jobs and providing the innings they should, the bullpen wouldn't be so overused and overexposed.

I don't disagree but it still sucks to see numbers like this.

yankswn23
04-27-09, 08:16 AM
once our starters get right the bullpen will start to flow..but right now its a disaster, but were still over 500, thats all you can hope for when your team is playing crappy, we got the tigers than the angels time to put a winning streak together

bostonyankeefan
04-27-09, 08:44 AM
once our starters get right the bullpen will start to flow..but right now its a disaster, but were still over 500, thats all you can hope for when your team is playing crappy, we got the tigers than the angels time to put a winning streak together

The Yankees are a .500 team and playing like one too.

They need more innings out of the rotation. They will get them.

Hughes will pitch well and give a much needed boost. Melancon will also give them a boost. He looked good last night.

When Wang comes back, Joba should go in the pen.

TheInfallibleOne
04-27-09, 09:44 AM
I hate saying this, because I was hoping it would never have to come to this point, but given the way Joba's velocity has been, maybe a month or so coming out of the pen wouldn't kill him.

I don't want this to be permanent, nor do I want to give the "Joba to the Pen" crowd anything to cheer about, but maybe we can edge two birds with one stone by letting him rescue the pen for a month and at the same time, he can let the fastball fly and add some velocity.

teknetic
04-27-09, 12:13 PM
Melancon is better than anything we could have gotten via trade. I'd give it a few more weeks before I jump on the hate wagon.

ZIM 2002
04-27-09, 12:48 PM
Boston seems to have added a couple of good relievers in the offseason. The Yankees needed starters, so that's where the money went, but relying mainly on guys that have been released by other teams or are young does not seem to be the answer for the bullpen - and what bothers me, is that it is something I would have thought the FO would have figured out.

NelsonMuntz
04-27-09, 02:19 PM
Boston seems to have added a couple of good relievers in the offseason. The Yankees needed starters, so that's where the money went, but relying mainly on guys that have been released by other teams or are young does not seem to be the answer for the bullpen - and what bothers me, is that it is something I would have thought the FO would have figured out.
So you're saying they should sign veterans instead ... shame they never looked into Kyle Farnsworth or Damaso Marte.

grizy
04-27-09, 04:13 PM
Marte has looked rather sharp since his 6 run implosion.

His ERA looks awful still for the last 4 games but at least one run should be charged to Girardi or Robertson for an IBB with only one out.

Maybe this says more about rest of the pen than Marte, but this weekend, Marte and Melancon were our best relievers not named Mo.

wang+cano=future
04-27-09, 04:27 PM
It is such a waste to have Jackson in the pen right now. Miranda off the bench would be so much more valuable.

sugmasterflex
04-27-09, 06:21 PM
The bullpen will only get better...

azzurribaggio
04-27-09, 07:58 PM
It could be a long season.....I think Joba needs to go back in the pen and we leave Hughes in the #5 slot.

Eschie
04-27-09, 08:00 PM
It could be a long season.....I think Joba needs to go back in the pen and we leave Hughes in the #5 slot.

What good is Joba in the pen without his fastball?

azzurribaggio
04-27-09, 08:11 PM
What good is Joba in the pen without his fastball?
Right now it'll be better than what we're throwing out there, his velocity will come around, but I trust him over 1-2 batters or 1 inning versus these guys in there now.

Eschie
04-27-09, 08:13 PM
Right now it'll be better than what we're throwing out there, his velocity will come around, but I trust him over 1-2 batters or 1 inning versus these guys in there now.

And what replaces him as a starter?

azzurribaggio
04-27-09, 08:19 PM
And what replaces him as a starter?

Didn't I answer that in my other post?

azzurribaggio
04-28-09, 09:40 PM
So are we ready to put Joba in the pen now? Looks like we found our 5th starter.....

EvanJ
04-28-09, 10:01 PM
So are we ready to put Joba in the pen now? Looks like we found our 5th starter.....
We only have five starters without Joba if Wang returns and does well or if somebody else is called up. There also could be injuries and they shouldn't put Joba in the bullpen only to make him a starter again when somebody gets hurt.

pinstripesphanatic
04-28-09, 10:02 PM
So are we ready to put Joba in the pen now? Looks like we found our 5th starter.....

In answer to your question, no.

And as awesome as Phil was, it's just one start.

NelsonMuntz
04-28-09, 11:02 PM
So are we ready to put Joba in the pen now? Looks like we found our 5th starter.....
Should the Red Sox put Beckett in the pen when Matsuzaka comes off the DL?

Casius
04-29-09, 07:07 AM
Edwar's looked pretty poor since that 5 day span where had to throw like 130 pitches.

I like him a lot, but he definitely seems diminished. If he continues to pitch poorly in the next couple outings, then he probably gets demoted—hopefully temporarily just until he gets back into form.

I don't really care that the bullpen's been inconsistent over the first 20 games. There's just so much talent and depth here that they'll almost certainly get right soon enough. Wang's outings haven't helped a whole lot.

Yankees1962
04-29-09, 07:11 AM
Edwar's looked pretty poor since that 5 day span where had to throw like 130 pitches.

I like him a lot, but he definitely seems diminished. If he continues to pitch poorly in the next couple outings, then he probably gets demoted—hopefully temporarily just until he gets back into form.

I don't really care that the bullpen's been inconsistent over the first 20 games. There's just so much talent and depth here that they'll almost certainly get right soon enough. Wang's outings haven't helped a whole lot.
I still think the bullpen's early troubles were due to our starters not being consistent and in the case of Wang not good at all. If we continue to get games from our starters in which the mininum amount of innings pitched in each start is 6 innings then I think the bullpen will straighten out. However, I'm not a fan of Veras or Edwar and believe that one or both of them won't be in the Yankees bullpen by the end of July.

NewEraYanks2527
04-29-09, 07:16 AM
Back to the kicker "If the Yankee starters can consistantly go 6-7 innings then the pen will be fine."

If the Yankee starters can go 6-7 solid innings then I see no reason this team won't be the team to beat really.

jeterdaman
04-29-09, 07:29 AM
There's just so much talent and depth here that they'll almost certainly get right soon enough. Wang's outings haven't helped a whole lot.

Where is this talent that you see?

Casius
04-29-09, 08:01 AM
Where is this talent that you see?Melancon, Edwar, and Robertson all have HISTORICALLY good minor league records. They weren't just good there, they were great.

Edwar has one of the best changeups in baseball. Robertson, an excellent curveball. Melancon, Veras, and Bruney all throw hard with excellent breaking stuff (though the latter two have fluctuated with control at times). Albaladejo is a good sinker/slider guy. Coke is a very deceptive lefty.

And I still have hopes for Marte. He's been bad with the Yankees, but in still a pretty small sample. He's a lefty with a long track record and dynamite stuff.

As far as pure talent goes, only Boston I think rivals.

They were excellent last year with mostly the same group of guys. It's easy to call them lousy now, but it's only been 20 games, and most of those runs have come in a few Wang starts.

StatenIslandYankee
04-29-09, 08:02 AM
I hate to say it and I love JOBA as a starter but I hope they put him in the pen. We need it.

Rocketbooster
04-29-09, 10:17 PM
I was disappointed with Alby tonight - he couldn't throw strikes with a 7 run lead? I still like him, but he did himself no favors tonight.

Coke seems like he was good though (I missed his inning) and Melancon was very good yesterday........

The SP is getting better and that helps alot. Still, Robertson is iffy (I like him, but I sure as heck don't trust him ) and so are most of the arms in the pen. I don't think Joe likes Marte very much - I think he's going to completely burn "his guys" out. I think he did a much better job last year instilling confidence in the pen. This year? I think he has a doghouse........pitchers get yanked before they can try to work themselves out of messes, they get yanked in the middle of at-bats, etc.........

NelsonMuntz
04-29-09, 10:20 PM
Alby's problem isn't that he can't throw strikes, it's that the strikes he does throw frequently catch too much of the plate.

NYYRules#1
04-30-09, 12:23 AM
I hate to say it and I love JOBA as a starter but I hope they put him in the pen. We need it.

First off even in terms of the short-term, we need him more in the rotation than in the bullpen.

Second off, he is far more valuable to the team as a starter regardless of needs.

Third off, long-term. 5 years from now, the 2009 bullpen's state won't matter. Where Joba is and what he's giving us will. Like all great prospects/young players, he's a long-term investment. His long-term output for this team is a hell of a lot more important than what hole he could currently fill.

Yankees1962
04-30-09, 12:25 AM
Alby's problem isn't that he can't throw strikes, it's that the strikes he does throw frequently catch too much of the plate.
His problem is both.

grizy
04-30-09, 03:38 AM
Alby's problem isn't that he can't throw strikes, it's that the strikes he does throw frequently catch too much of the plate.

Both. And in the past couple appearances his sinkers have been flatter than Wang's.

heyabbott
04-30-09, 10:10 AM
Alby's problem isn't that he can't throw strikes, it's that the strikes he does throw frequently catch too much of the plate.

Alby, Marte and Veras are way too inconsistant to rely upon in close games.

Mo
Bruney (when healthy)
Melancon
Coke

Blazer
04-30-09, 10:34 AM
Alby, Marte and Veras are way too inconsistant to rely upon in close games.

Mo
Bruney (when healthy)
Melancon
Coke

The pen is starting to get sorted out and will be better when Bruney returns.

I see it similar to you

Mo
Bruney
Melancon
Coke

That's really all you need on the front line of a BP if SP does their collective job.

For the record I don't care for Edwar and Veras. HR & BB are killers for relievers. Those two give up way too many of both.

I'm hoping Marte will work out, but things don't look promising at this point.

I Heart Jeter
04-30-09, 11:05 AM
What is the latest on Bruney? When can we expect him back?

grizy
04-30-09, 12:04 PM
I still trust Marte more than Bruney and Coke.

Casius
04-30-09, 12:32 PM
I think the way people seem to perceive bullpens as a whole is flawed. It's such a volatile business. Guys can have a bad streak and look awful, and then be great the rest of the year.

You need to give it more time. It's only 21 games into the season, and the fanbase is already despairing about how we have to fix the bullpen and find new arms. This is the same bullpen, for the most part, that was probably within the Top 3 in baseball over the course of the entirety of 2008. There's a lot of talent here.

Yankee Tripper
04-30-09, 01:17 PM
Did Alby pitch himself to Scranton with his past two apperances?

mrbawm
04-30-09, 03:16 PM
I think the way people seem to perceive bullpens as a whole is flawed. It's such a volatile business. Guys can have a bad streak and look awful, and then be great the rest of the year.

You need to give it more time. It's only 21 games into the season, and the fanbase is already despairing about how we have to fix the bullpen and find new arms. This is the same bullpen, for the most part, that was probably within the Top 3 in baseball over the course of the entirety of 2008. There's a lot of talent here.

Good point, there's a reason these guys are in the bullpen in the first place.

mrbawm
04-30-09, 03:17 PM
I don't know if anyone's had the same thought but I feel like Melancon could be the difference maker this year. If he is rock solid and Bruney makes it back, forget it.

NelsonMuntz
04-30-09, 05:17 PM
I don't know if anyone's had the same thought but I feel like Melancon could be the difference maker this year. If he is rock solid and Bruney makes it back, forget it.
I think a lot of us were cautiously optimistic that Melancon would be the x factor in the bullpen this year. If he continues to pitch well and Bruney comes back healthy, the pen should be fine. For some reason I have a bad feeling about Bruney though. It would just be par for the course with this team if we find out his injury is more serious.

diehardyankeefan
04-30-09, 08:33 PM
I think the way people seem to perceive bullpens as a whole is flawed. It's such a volatile business. Guys can have a bad streak and look awful, and then be great the rest of the year.

You need to give it more time. It's only 21 games into the season, and the fanbase is already despairing about how we have to fix the bullpen and find new arms. This is the same bullpen, for the most part, that was probably within the Top 3 in baseball over the course of the entirety of 2008. There's a lot of talent here.
I agree, it is hard to build a great bullpen. There is a reason why these guys are middle relievers. I don't think this is a great bullpen but it's not bad over 162 games i think.

Bluebottle_Sam
04-30-09, 09:56 PM
Tonight was a great example of how good SP gets it done. Only having to rely on the bullpen for 2 innings is about as least risky as you get, and Coke and Mo threw well.

Gusto
05-01-09, 10:27 AM
I don't know if anyone's had the same thought but I feel like Melancon could be the difference maker this year. If he is rock solid and Bruney makes it back, forget it.

I'm with ya. Its too early to tell, but it would be a happy story if he could pitch well enough to claim some of the 8th inning.

dont_ya_know24
05-01-09, 09:00 PM
aaaaaaand the bullpen sucks. again.

pinstripesphanatic
05-01-09, 09:03 PM
aaaaaaand the bullpen sucks. again.

i don't think it ever truly stopped sucking.

Dannman103
05-01-09, 09:23 PM
Nice inning by Jonathan A. Despite his last outing, I still like him to be a decent middle relief option this year. Liked him last year, too, but I he never really got a chance at the ML level.

Kathordine
05-01-09, 10:40 PM
Our bullpen is such trash. The only team in the AL who we can compare our bullpen to is the angels. What we did to the angels today will happen to our bullpen atleast once in every series in the playoffs.

R.V.47
05-01-09, 11:18 PM
Im actually pretty confident things will get figured out in the pen. They just need to weed out the garbage which right now is Veras and Edwar. I still like Albaladejo, Coke outside of a few bad outings has been good, Melancon has shown promise in a very limited amount of time and Bruney could come back strong. Some question marks no doubt but I still think there are enough talented arms down there to piece something together.

BxBomber44
05-01-09, 11:23 PM
I'm trying to figure out what options we have in the minors that would be better than we have right now and I honestly cannot put my finger on it... This has been a work in progress since Big Bad Bruney got hurt.

Rocketbooster
05-01-09, 11:28 PM
Nice inning by Jonathan A. Despite his last outing, I still like him to be a decent middle relief option this year. Liked him last year, too, but I he never really got a chance at the ML level.

I like him, too.....He's been inconsistent, but he's gotten some big outs for us. I just think he'll be a solid guy for us eventually

Rocketbooster
05-01-09, 11:30 PM
I'm trying to figure out what options we have in the minors that would be better than we have right now and I honestly cannot put my finger on it... This has been a work in progress since Big Bad Bruney got hurt.

No one. I keep hearing about Dunn - he's a completely unproven AAer......I already am skeptical about Melancon (not that he won't be good down the line but I refuse to crown him an 8th inning guy until I see that he can get the job done.......3 innings before tonight doesn't do it for me.

BxBomber44
05-01-09, 11:36 PM
No one. I keep hearing about Dunn - he's a completely unproven AAer......I already am skeptical about Melancon (not that he won't be good down the line but I refuse to crown him an 8th inning guy until I see that he can get the job done.......3 innings before tonight doesn't do it for me.

Agree, I am a huge Melancon fan but he is young and still unproven, although his stuff is superb. I am against Joba going to the pen, but am starting to actually listen to people make an argument for it.

I feel like we're one arm away (2 now, with Bruney out for a week or so) from being a spectacular pen. Imo, all the guys back there have been overworked lately and put in varying situations because Girardi is still trying to figure out consistent roles. I really wish we had someone like Saito back there that is just a little more reliable to build around. We'll be ok down the road.

R.V.47
05-01-09, 11:40 PM
The yanks need to start converting Andrew Brackman into a reliever. Not sure if he could help us this year but he could definitly be good out of the pen.

Rocketbooster
05-01-09, 11:41 PM
Either rework Veras' mechanics or dump him. I like Alby and think it would be a mistake to get rid of him. I know he's been inconsistent this year, but sometimes you just have to ride these things out. We can be patient with hitters in the lineup, but not with guys in the pen? When they struggle, put them into lower leverage situations until they prove themselves again - don't just toss them out. This is what Joe did last year and the pen rewarded his confidence in them - he didn't have a doghouse.

Why isn't this thread here instead of regular ITL?

rtb07
05-02-09, 03:40 PM
Yeah, this bullpen needs fixed. The problem is, the scrubs he gets like marte... Obviously we got rid of him a long time ago because we thought so little of him. They suck when they comeback too. Time to open up the airlines and bring some more aaa relievers in, if you throw enough shi..t at the wall something's bound to stick