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frostdude1
12-12-08, 07:01 PM
Considering the talent of the pitching staff at the moment, would you say that this is the best rotation that we have ever seen the Yankees assemble ?

01 CC Sabathia
02 AJ Burnett
03 Chien Ming Wang
04 Joba Chamberlain
05 Andy Pettitte (assuming he signs)/ Phil Hughes

And if not, which rotation was better ?

ppa79
12-12-08, 07:04 PM
Considering the talent of the pitching staff at the moment, would you say that this is the best rotation that we have ever seen the Yankees assemble ?

01 CC Sabathia
02 AJ Burnett
03 Chien Ming Wang
04 Joba Chamberlain
05 Andy Pettitte (assuming he signs)/ Phil Hughes

And if not, which rotation was better ?

Depends on Chamberlain and Hughes.

Pettitte is league average now.

CC 140 ERA+ guy
AJ Burnett 115 ERA+ guy
Wang 120 ERA+ guy
Joba potential 140 ERA+ guy
Hughes potential 130 ERA+ guy

R.V.47
12-12-08, 07:07 PM
I think this is more of a question for after the season but I think on paper it is. The best one that comes to mind is 2002-2003

Clemens
Wells
Petttitte
Duque
Mussina

cyhughes22
12-12-08, 07:16 PM
I think this is more of a question for after the season but I think on paper it is. The best one that comes to mind is 2002-2003

Clemens
Wells
Petttitte
Duque
Mussina

When you think about it, it's incredible that team didn't win something. Granted Clemens is the only real power arm in that rotation but god was that a good one.

Ynkcpt23
12-12-08, 07:21 PM
This was a pretty good one. Check out the stats on the closer.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1961.shtml

theDurk
12-12-08, 07:31 PM
No--1998 was better:
Cone, Pettitte, Wells, Duque, (Irabu (13-9, don't laugh) + 14 starts for Mendoza who got 10 W's).

I'd take that over what we have--especially post-season. Irabu and all!

HelloNewman
12-12-08, 07:33 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1939.shtml

smckdwn989
12-12-08, 07:33 PM
No--1998 was better:
Cone, Pettitte, Wells, Duque, (Irabu (13-9, don't laugh) + 14 starts for Mendoza who got 10 W's).

I'd take that over what we have--especially post-season. Irabu and all!

98 was a special team. but this rotation isn't better than the 2009 team.

Tifoso
12-12-08, 07:35 PM
1939>(slightly)1998>1927>1950's>1961

IMHO ;)

Tifoso
12-12-08, 07:36 PM
98 was a special team. but this rotation isn't better than the 2009 team.

Agreed. 1-4 (and I'm moving up Joba to #4 for this exercise) they are about a push,

2009Andy>>Irabu

edge: 2009

R.V.47
12-12-08, 07:40 PM
98 was a special team. but this rotation isn't better than the 2009 team.

On paper you could say every team from 2002 to 2009 with the exception of last year is better or more talented than the dynasty teams. But those guys just got it done, especially the pitchers. This is why they play the games.

Hopefully next November we are still having this discussion.

1936-1939JoeNLou
12-12-08, 07:41 PM
1939>(slightly)1998>1927>1950's>1961

IMHO ;)

1939 Yankees.

Red Ruffing 148+
Lefty Gomez 127+

The entire staff had a 131+ era !!

IMO the greatest team ever. Basically all the pitchers had career years. Except Gomez who was a 2 time Triple Crown winner.

Ynkcpt23
12-12-08, 07:42 PM
98 was a special team. but this rotation isn't better than the 2009 team.

Completely agree. '98 was an unreal season--everything meshed. I'm afraid to rehash it, to take it apart because the team I remember watching could do no wrong. Remember Homer Bush and how good he was in his role that season? Didn't think so.

The '09 rotation has more potential. And that is where we are until play begins.

ppa79
12-12-08, 07:44 PM
Agreed. 1-4 (and I'm moving up Joba to #4 for this exercise) they are about a push,

2009Andy>>Irabu

edge: 2009

Irabu did lead the league in ERA up till the all star break if I recall. And he ended the season with an ERA+ of 109.

Ynkcpt23
12-12-08, 07:44 PM
1939 Yankees.

Red Ruffing 148+
Lefty Gomez 127+

The entire staff had a 131+ era !!

IMO the greatest team ever. Basically all the pitchers had career years. Except Gomez who was a 2 time Triple Crown winner.

Wow. That's outstanding. Thanks for dropping the knowledge. 131+ for the entire pitching staff????? That's beyond crazy.

theDurk
12-12-08, 07:47 PM
Agreed. 1-4 (and I'm moving up Joba to #4 for this exercise) they are about a push,

2009Andy>>Irabu

edge: 2009

Disagree--they might, but both Hughes and AJB have a good chance at doing well, but also a worrisome probability of being disappointing, and Joba is light on innings. Count Mendoza as half of #5, and 1998>>2009. IMHO.

Meecham4ever
12-12-08, 07:48 PM
Considering the talent of the pitching staff at the moment, would you say that this is the best rotation that we have ever seen the Yankees assemble ?

01 CC Sabathia
02 AJ Burnett
03 Chien Ming Wang
04 Joba Chamberlain
05 Andy Pettitte (assuming he signs)/ Phil Hughes

And if not, which rotation was better ?

If another starter..(Lowe, Sheets, or ?) is signed...this means Joba is headed back to the pen for this year...doesn't it?

Also, I'd take the rotation of Guidry, Torrez, Hunter and Gullett over this group.

justtxyank
12-12-08, 07:48 PM
On paper you could say every team from 2002 to 2009 with the exception of last year is better or more talented than the dynasty teams. But those guys just got it done, especially the pitchers. This is why they play the games.

Hopefully next November we are still having this discussion.

People seriously, SERIOUSLY, underrate the talent that was on those dynasty teams. This mythical idea that they were a bunch of scrappers who just "got it done" is so bogus it isn't even funny.

jughead
12-12-08, 07:49 PM
Sorry, but is this thread a joke? I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer but every year for close to the past decade has been a repetition of "At their best/healthiest, is this team the best EVER?!?". Remember the 1000 run offense 2007 was supposed to be?

More realistically this will be a solid rotation, though not worth the money.

Meh. I'm just upset I guess, I'm not a huge fan of this off-season so far. I hoped the Yankees would be smarter, but they're just going back to the same old ways. Everything about these move scream panic.

smckdwn989
12-12-08, 07:49 PM
On paper you could say every team from 2002 to 2009 with the exception of last year is better or more talented than the dynasty teams. But those guys just got it done, especially the pitchers. This is why they play the games.

Hopefully next November we are still having this discussion.

we're talking about rotations... and the yankees havent had a rotation like they are putting together since the dynasty teams. they tried to bring in guys like Brown, Weaver, Vazquez etc, but they didn't get it done. Looking at CC and Brunett, these guys have done it in the AL, are 28 and 32 respectively and coupled with Wang and Chamberlain and Pettitte, give the yankees a chance to keep the line moving every single day they play. Now I know you'll say in baseball you have a chance to win every game, but when the matchup is Jeff Karstens vs John Beckett you're looking at an uphill battle.

In contrast I would go to war with any of the 2009 rotation against any starter in baseball.

Tabata
12-12-08, 07:49 PM
Ask me next November.

smckdwn989
12-12-08, 07:49 PM
Sorry, but is this thread a joke? I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer but every year for close to the past decade has been a repetition of "At their best/healthiest, is this team the best EVER?!?". Remember the 1000 run offense 2007 was supposed to be?

More realistically this will be a solid rotation, though not worth the money.

Meh. I'm just upset I guess, I'm not a huge fan of this off-season so far.
no because not all MLB starters have the same upside.

BroadwayBomber55
12-12-08, 07:50 PM
The 1939 rotation is the best in Yankee history followed by 1998.

As for this one, I'm with Tabata mate wait until next November before I make my decision.

Big_E
12-12-08, 07:54 PM
If another starter..(Lowe, Sheets, or ?) is signed...this means Joba is headed back to the pen for this year...doesn't it?

Also, I'd take the rotation of Guidry, Torrez, Hunter and Gullett over this group.

Joba was one of the best SP in the AL when he was starting...he is wasted in the 8th inning. I'd rather see him blowing away batters from the 1st inning.

CC
Burnett
Joba
Wang
Pettitte

effing awesome.

fredgmuggs
12-12-08, 07:54 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1939.shtml
The Yankees didn't exist before 1996.

1936-1939JoeNLou
12-12-08, 07:56 PM
Wow. That's outstanding. Thanks for dropping the knowledge. 131+ for the entire pitching staff????? That's beyond crazy.

Yup. And the offense had a 117 OPS+ to boot. So imagine the 2007 Yankees offense with a 131 team ERA + (instead of the 99 + they had)

I think the 1939 team is the greatest team ever. They had the highest run differential in history.

Scored 967 and allowed only 556. so + 411 :eek:

The 2008 Yankees in comparison where 789 scored and allowed 727. so +62

1936-1939JoeNLou
12-12-08, 07:59 PM
Honorable mention to the 1927 Yankees. ...a 120 ERA+

DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
12-12-08, 08:33 PM
Considering the talent of the pitching staff at the moment, would you say that this is the best rotation that we have ever seen the Yankees assemble ?

01 CC Sabathia
02 AJ Burnett
03 Chien Ming Wang
04 Joba Chamberlain
05 Andy Pettitte (assuming he signs)/ Phil Hughes

And if not, which rotation was better ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please, get Andy Pettitte out of there. I pray they don't sign him again. He still wants $16 million instead of the $10 million the Yankees are offering. I would much rather have Ben Sheets and let Andy retire.
01 C.C. Sabathia
02. A.J. Burnett
03. Chien Ming Wang
04. Joba Chamberlain
05. Ben Sheets

Has there been a better rotation? Yes. 1950.
01. Allie Reynolds
02. Vic Raschi
03. Eddie Lopat
04. Whitey Ford

I don't know if they had a 5th starter, but those 4 beat the Phillies in 4 games in the World Series.

GreenGrass
12-12-08, 08:36 PM
Agreed. 1-4 (and I'm moving up Joba to #4 for this exercise) they are about a push,

2009Andy>>Irabu

edge: 2009
1998 Irabu was more comparable to the 2004 Javier Vazquez. Both had great first halves of the seasons (Irabu earned a pitcher-of-the-month honor in April.). Both were abducted by aliens at the all-star game breaks and replaced by androids clueless about pitching.

ober0n98
12-12-08, 08:54 PM
Sorry, but is this thread a joke? I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer but every year for close to the past decade has been a repetition of "At their best/healthiest, is this team the best EVER?!?". Remember the 1000 run offense 2007 was supposed to be?

More realistically this will be a solid rotation, though not worth the money.

Meh. I'm just upset I guess, I'm not a huge fan of this off-season so far. I hoped the Yankees would be smarter, but they're just going back to the same old ways. Everything about these move scream panic.

I'm not terribly upset, just upset that we overreached for no good reason. If 40 million is not enough to convince CC to play in NY (the mecca of baseball) honestly, I wouldn't want him.

Since when is playing in NY require MORE money to sign free agents??? When was there a yankee tax? goddamn. that part pisses me off. I'd take a discount to play with the yanks who are competitive every friggin' year and will always spend to win...

What happened to the NY discount? :( The last agent that gave us a discount was beltran and we don't even go for it...

Hopefully CC works out and pitches ridiculous well. I doubt he will for 7 years, but here's keeping my fingers crossed. This thread is retarded, btw. 39 rotation was the best, hands down.

Yankee Tripper
12-12-08, 09:15 PM
1998 staff was pretty darn good.

HelloNewman
12-12-08, 09:44 PM
1939 Yankees.

Red Ruffing 148+
Lefty Gomez 127+

The entire staff had a 131+ era !!

IMO the greatest team ever. Basically all the pitchers had career years. Except Gomez who was a 2 time Triple Crown winner.Agreed. It's amazing how badly they've been overshadowed historically. The only thing anyone remembers from that year is Gehrig's speech.

BonusCantos
12-12-08, 10:43 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. It looks pretty good on paper, but they have a LOT to prove before we put them up at the top of the list.

ThePinStripes
12-12-08, 11:12 PM
This was a pretty good one. Check out the stats on the closer.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1961.shtml
ERA+ of their starting 5:
117
119
140
104
95
We're way better than that.
Burnett is about 117
Wang is better than 119
CC is better than 140
Joba is WAY better than 104
Even pettitteis better than 95, sheets would blow that out of the water. Even Hughes can come close.

Yankees13
12-12-08, 11:26 PM
It's one of the best in recent history, but as others have illustrated, no modern team will ever be as good, on either side of the ball, as some of the teams the Yankees had from 1921-1964.

Rocketman
12-13-08, 01:08 AM
Remember the 1000 run offense 2007 was supposed to be?

Yeah, that 2007 Yankee offense really sucked! Only 968 runs scored!

I hope that the 2009 Yankee rotation is not so disappointing!

WWJD
12-13-08, 01:32 AM
It's so good that provided everyone stays healthy, Joba may be better served helping us out of the pen in the playoffs (depending on circumstances of course such as his inning count, sense of his durability, performance of other unproven RPs etc.).

gadvfreak99
12-13-08, 02:10 AM
Considering the talent of the pitching staff at the moment, would you say that this is the best rotation that we have ever seen the Yankees assemble ?

01 CC Sabathia
02 AJ Burnett
03 Chien Ming Wang
04 Joba Chamberlain
05 Andy Pettitte (assuming he signs)/ Phil Hughes

And if not, which rotation was better ?

I feel Sheets is the goung to sign along with Pettite and Joba goes to Bullpen.

Young Steinbrenner
12-13-08, 02:33 AM
In my lifetime Id say the best Yankees rotation was during the dynasty

Clemens
Pettitte
Wells
El Duque
Cone

Denny Neagle and the great Hideki Irabu(joke:D)

Mr.Muhozi
12-13-08, 04:05 AM
on paper our current rotation, if healthy, is the best of all time, but how many times has on paper never translated to actual productivity on the field, this debate is best reserved after the 2009 season so we see how they did and have those oh so important starts to compare with the 1998,1961,1939 so long and so forth yankees

yankeeman61
12-13-08, 08:29 AM
on paper our current rotation, if healthy, is the best of all time, but how many times has on paper never translated to actual productivity on the field, this debate is best reserved after the 2009 season so we see how they did and have those oh so important starts to compare with the 1998,1961,1939 so long and so forth yankees

I'm not even ready to declare it the best on paper.

I concur with those who declare the '39 staff the best. The '37 staff was right there and had the same two aces with Gomez and Ruffing. The '98 Yankees were top 5, but many forget the '27 staff led by Hoyt, Pennock and Shocker. I would actually rank that staff #3 behind the '39 and '37 teams.

ThePinStripes
12-13-08, 08:48 PM
on paper our current rotation, if healthy, is the best of all time, but how many times has on paper never translated to actual productivity on the field, this debate is best reserved after the 2009 season so we see how they did and have those oh so important starts to compare with the 1998,1961,1939 so long and so forth yankees
On paper, the Tigers were supposed to score 1000 runs and breeze through the world series. Ask them how that worked out for them.

JDPNYY
12-13-08, 08:52 PM
The Yankees didn't exist before 1996.

heh..

Mr. Mxylsplk
12-13-08, 08:56 PM
I feel Sheets is the goung to sign along with Pettite and Joba goes to Bullpen.
Your health is your own, but don't hold your breath on that.

RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees
12-13-08, 08:57 PM
Has there been a better rotation? Yes. 1950.
01. Allie Reynolds
02. Vic Raschi
03. Eddie Lopat
04. Whitey Ford

:ga-ga:

nnysiny
12-13-08, 09:01 PM
out of the dynasty years, the 1998 Yankees had the best starters statistically:
1,061.1 innings (6.56 IP/start :wtf:)
3.85 ERA
821:321 K/BB ratio