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View Full Version : If the mets are willing to give us Beltran for basically nothing we should jump on it



sabermet prospectus
10-10-08, 02:46 PM
I mean jump on this now while the mets fans and media are talking that nonesense about needing to break up the core.

This will correct the mistake of not getting Beltran in the 04 offseason.

I mean were giving up the worst 2nd baseman in baseball this season (with Hudson waiting to be signed), a 5th starter at best, and a quality releiver but nothing THAT great and for what its worth I would trade injury prone old bruney before I trade Veras.

JavyVazquezIsSick
10-10-08, 02:50 PM
:roflmao:

CallOfTheCrow
10-10-08, 02:51 PM
I hope people don't take every internet rumor as gospel.

sabermet prospectus
10-10-08, 02:51 PM
:roflmao:
No this is a real rumor that was on yesnetwork. I was shocked too. Probbaly just a rumor but if it was true I jump on it, you dont ?

sabermet prospectus
10-10-08, 02:52 PM
I hope people don't take every internet rumor as gospel.
I dont usually but it was on yesnetwork.com, that made me take notice.

johnnyyankee
10-10-08, 02:52 PM
:wtf:


For your sake, I hope I've lost my sense of humor.

Mr. Mxylsplk
10-10-08, 03:07 PM
Obviously this is true - we should indeed take Beltran if he's available for nothing. Similarly, we should absolutely sign CC if he'll play for cheeseburgers.

YanksFan1992
10-10-08, 03:07 PM
No this is a real rumor that was on yesnetwork. I was shocked too. Probbaly just a rumor but if it was true I jump on it, you dont ?
What's a real rumor? It either happened, or is still a rumor.

JL25and3
10-10-08, 03:09 PM
Obviously this is true - we should indeed take Beltran if he's available for nothing. Similarly, we should absolutely sign CC if he'll play for cheeseburgers.Next, swing that Peavy-for-Betemit trade?

DEADSOX
10-10-08, 03:12 PM
Next, swing that Peavy-for-Betemit trade?

No way I make that trade.

Bleacher_Creature
10-10-08, 03:23 PM
On Wednesday’s episode of NY Baseball Digest (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/nybaseballtalk/2008/10/08/yankees-off-season-plan) with Mike Silva, Frank Russo of The Deadball Era (http://www.thedeadballera.com/) suggested a possible deal between the Mets and Yankees involving Carlos Beltran (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=6132), Robinson Cano and Ian Kennedy.

Silva, Russo, Lombardi and Neyer all do exceptional work, and this is the perfect example of how speculation can innocently become internet rumor.

Russo essentially reported only that his source spoke to people that said the Mets are more likely to trade Beltran than David Wright (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=7382) or Jose Reyes (http://sny.stats.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=7066) and from that speculated about a possible deal for Cano. In only two steps, it reached ESPN.com as “a juicy rumor.”

http://www.metsblog.com/2008/10/10/buzz-mets-taking-calls-on-beltran/

R.V.47
10-10-08, 03:24 PM
Cano for Beltran would be disastrous.

CallOfTheCrow
10-10-08, 04:00 PM
+ taking on Beltran's contract as well as most of Cano's? Makes 0 sense.

JavyVazquezIsSick
10-10-08, 04:26 PM
BTW, how is Cano and Kennedy=Basically nothing?

CallOfTheCrow
10-10-08, 04:30 PM
sabermet is going on a bad year & is ignoring Cano's other very good years. One good year means you're a superstar, one bad one means you're a bust.

sabermet prospectus
10-10-08, 05:13 PM
BTW, how is Cano and Kennedy=Basically nothing?
Cano even at his peak is not the best 2nd baseman in baseball and lets be honest cano's celing offensively is Soriano with less power. He will never have patience and if he doesnt hit .300 he is useless offensively.

Exucse me if I wouldnt want to trade him for the 1st or 2nd best cf in all of baseball. Plus you have Hudson who isnt better then Cano at his best but how do we even know if Cano will ever be at his best again ? IMO Hudson is just as good as a 75 percent Cano.

And Kennedy I mean cmon do I even have to argue this ? Am I speaking to Cashman ? Because I know nobody else thinks Kennedy is good anymore. 5th starter at best, book it. I would be most upset about losing Bruney or Veras

ppa79
10-10-08, 05:14 PM
I mean jump on this now while the mets fans and media are talking that nonesense about needing to break up the core.

This will correct the mistake of not getting Beltran in the 04 offseason.

I mean were giving up the worst 2nd baseman in baseball this season (with Hudson waiting to be signed), a 5th starter at best, and a quality releiver but nothing THAT great and for what its worth I would trade injury prone old bruney before I trade Veras.

Instead of posting, why don't you do something to get this done.

sabermet prospectus
10-10-08, 05:16 PM
+ taking on Beltran's contract as well as most of Cano's? Makes 0 sense.
I dont see how it makes 0 sense. We would obviously sign hudson. I mean even if I give you a bone and say Cano will be at his best :

Beltran and Hudson >>>>>>>>>Cano and Gardner

I mean this is obvious right ? W/o a doubt, if we signed Hudson, this trade makes us a better team for next year. How is that even arguable ?

OldYankeeFan
10-10-08, 05:43 PM
Beltran and Hudson >>>>>>>>>Cano and Gardner

I mean this is obvious right ? W/o a doubt, if we signed Hudson, this trade makes us a better team for next year. How is that even arguable ?

The only thing you are not taking into consideration is the extra 18 mil or so in salary for Beltran/Hudson over Cano/Gardner. So to be fair add in another 18 mil in FA talent to the Cano/Gardner side of the equation and then compare.

teknetic
10-10-08, 05:54 PM
I dont see how it makes 0 sense. We would obviously sign hudson. I mean even if I give you a bone and say Cano will be at his best :

Beltran and Hudson >>>>>>>>>Cano and Gardner

I mean this is obvious right ? W/o a doubt, if we signed Hudson, this trade makes us a better team for next year. How is that even arguable ?

Orlando Hudson is a Type A Free Agent. Orlando Hudson had an OPS+ of 93 in his four years with the Blue Jays. Beltran is owed 55 million Cano is owed 54 million.

Do you do research before posting? :confused:

CallOfTheCrow
10-10-08, 06:49 PM
I am absolutely astounded that Met fans want Hughes, Cano, & Jackson just to even consider trading Beltran.

JL25and3
10-10-08, 07:01 PM
Orlando Hudson is a Type A Free Agent. Orlando Hudson had an OPS+ of 93 in his four years with the Blue Jays. Beltran is owed 55 million Cano is owed 54 million.

Do you do research before posting? :confused:Don't forget Hudson's wrist surgery two months ago.

primetime714
10-10-08, 07:14 PM
I am absolutely astounded that Met fans want Hughes, Cano, & Jackson just to even consider trading Beltran.

Thats absurd, but it doesn't surprise me all that much that Met's fans would ask for that much.

Personally I think Cano for Beltran straight up would be a fair deal for them when you consider age and salary. Beltran is due 18.5M in each of the next 3 years. Cano is due 25M in the next 3 years combined and is signed for another 2 years after that at a combined 29M. Cano is also 5 years younger.

In fact I don't know that I do that from a Yankees standpoint. I thought it was a mistake not to sign Beltran when we had the chance and I think he is an awesome player, but Cano is going to bounce back. He's not the 5-tool player that Beltran is, but he is 5 years younger and 13.5M less expensive this year.

False1
10-10-08, 07:34 PM
As much as I really like Beltran and think he'd be huge in CF for us, no way do I even trade him straight up for Cano personally. I don't think anyone (well, after reading this thread ALMOST anyone) thinks what we saw this year is the real Cano.

ColombiaYanksFan
10-10-08, 08:38 PM
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

What to do , what to do!

Nothing's worked for the last 7 years as far as winning a World champions. Sometimes inaction is better than action.

DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
10-10-08, 10:13 PM
I would love to get Beltran to play for us in CF, especially since he wanted to be a Yankee and offered them a discount before signing with the Mets. But would the Mets be willing to trade him and for who? They desperately need pitching, and a good second baseman. The best I would offer would be Hughes, Cano and Jose Veras.

aeromac76
10-11-08, 09:09 AM
I would love to get Beltran to play for us in CF, especially since he wanted to be a Yankee and offered them a discount before signing with the Mets. But would the Mets be willing to trade him and for who? They desperately need pitching, and a good second baseman. The best I would offer would be Hughes, Cano and Jose Veras.


Not chance, I'd have a hard time offering Cano straight up for him..
You want to throw in Hughes?
No way on earth..

Since95
10-11-08, 09:17 AM
I would love to get Beltran to play for us in CF, especially since he wanted to be a Yankee and offered them a discount before signing with the Mets. But would the Mets be willing to trade him and for who? They desperately need pitching, and a good second baseman. The best I would offer would be Hughes, Cano and Jose Veras.

Are you nuts.. Beltran's not that good to warrant such a package!!

OlgMvp
10-11-08, 12:49 PM
I can't wait the bottom line on ESPN "Yankees reject trade offer of Carlos Beltran for nothing."


Why in the world would they give him up for nothing? Have you been listening to Francesa again and BELIEVING EVERY WORD he spews? Break them up just for the sake of breaking them up? You know even in those mindless ramblings of his, he DOES say that they need to get an ARM for Beltran or Reyes, or an OF'er of equal potential, i.e. Sizemore or Granderson (which is ALSO lunacy) but certainly not NOTHING.

JL25and3
10-11-08, 12:52 PM
I can't wait the bottom line on ESPN "Yankees reject trade offer of Carlos Beltran for nothing."


Why in the world would they give him up for nothing? Have you been listening to Francesa again and BELIEVING EVERY WORD he spews? Break them up just for the sake of breaking them up? You know even in those mindless ramblings of his, he DOES say that they need to get an ARM for Beltran or Reyes, or an OF'er of equal potential, i.e. Sizemore or Granderson (which is ALSO lunacy) but certainly not NOTHING.Well, sabermet is working from the premise that Cano+ is "nothing."

R.V.47
10-11-08, 01:42 PM
Cano even at his peak is not the best 2nd baseman in baseball and lets be honest cano's celing offensively is Soriano with less power. He will never have patience and if he doesnt hit .300 he is useless offensively.

Exucse me if I wouldnt want to trade him for the 1st or 2nd best cf in all of baseball. Plus you have Hudson who isnt better then Cano at his best but how do we even know if Cano will ever be at his best again ? IMO Hudson is just as good as a 75 percent Cano.

And Kennedy I mean cmon do I even have to argue this ? Am I speaking to Cashman ? Because I know nobody else thinks Kennedy is good anymore. 5th starter at best, book it. I would be most upset about losing Bruney or Veras

If Canos ceiling offensively is Soriano with less power I think every team in baseball would want him which it seems they do.

primetime714
10-11-08, 01:58 PM
If Canos ceiling offensively is Soriano with less power I think every team in baseball would want him which it seems they do.

I don't know that Soriano is the best comparison as they're totally different players. I do know that Cano has already had at least one year that was about as good or better than the year Pedroia is having this year and people are talking about Pedroia as an MVP candidate.

Slioman
10-11-08, 02:03 PM
Cano even at his peak is not the best 2nd baseman in baseball and lets be honest cano's celing offensively is Soriano with less power. He will never have patience and if he doesnt hit .300 he is useless offensively.

In 2007, the average 2nd baseman hit a 96 OPS+. I'd be perfectly fine with a second baseman that can post Soriano with less power and with Cano's old defense. Lazy as it may be, his defense was very solid before his struggles in 2008.


Exucse me if I wouldnt want to trade him for the 1st or 2nd best cf in all of baseball. Plus you have Hudson who isnt better then Cano at his best but how do we even know if Cano will ever be at his best again ? IMO Hudson is just as good as a 75 percent Cano.

Orlando Hudson will be 31, moving from the NL West back to the AL East. In the AL East, he never posted a single season with an OPS+ greater than 97, which means that he was most likely a below average hitter for every year, bar one where he was average. If we do trade Cano, I'm fine with an Orlando Hudson filling in, but it's almost impossible to quantify that Hudson will be a "75% Cano."


And Kennedy I mean cmon do I even have to argue this ? Am I speaking to Cashman ? Because I know nobody else thinks Kennedy is good anymore. 5th starter at best, book it. I would be most upset about losing Bruney or Veras

Bullpen arms are highly volatile. It's best to sell high on middle relievers. I especially don't trust Bruney, because of his high walk rate.

You're right. Nobody else thinks Kennedy is good anymore. Why in the world would you trade someone when their value is as low as it gets? I'd much prefer to keep Kennedy and hope it turns it around in 2009 or 2010 and turns into a back of the rotation starter. If we could get a good, young backend cost controlled starter, I'd be very happy. His AAA numbers look great and Kennedy just has to try and prove he is more than an AAAA starter.

sabermet prospectus
10-11-08, 02:47 PM
If Canos ceiling offensively is Soriano with less power I think every team in baseball would want him which it seems they do.
Really ? Every team wants a leadoff hitter with a .330 obp ? Ok if you say so.

sabermet prospectus
10-11-08, 02:53 PM
The reason for the Sori comparison is that neither has any patience. I mean you guys get on Arod for clutch hitting and now you want to defend Soriano who swings at anything within 3 feet of the plate in the postseason ? I mean cmon. And Cano wont even give you the 40 homers that Sori gives you. Look I like Cano as much as the next guy but if you could get him straight up for Beltrn you do it in a heartbeat. I know hes a homegrown guy but please stop overating him. And Kennedy and either bruney or veras does not hold up a Beltran deal.

Now this talk of Hughes is crazy. There is now no way you could trade hughes for anything but an ace since you didnt trade him for Santana.

bigjf
10-11-08, 02:57 PM
Not a chance that Beltran gets traded. Minaya would get fired on the spot and deservedly so if he did that. Just because ESPN jumps on this early rumor doesn't mean it has any credence. I understand Neyer wanted some hits for his blog, but even he would have to admit this has no chance of coming to fruition.

Of course the Yanks would have to jump right on it, but the Mets wouldn't be dumb enough...not unless we're throwing in Victor Zambrano, at least.

JL25and3
10-11-08, 03:50 PM
Now this talk of Hughes is crazy. There is now no way you could trade hughes for anything but an ace since you didnt trade him for Santana.Whether you traded him for Santana or not is irrelevant to any future deal.

mrmike98
10-11-08, 04:07 PM
I'd say McCain has a better chance of moving into the White House than Beltran does of moving his office to The Bronx.

primetime714
10-11-08, 04:17 PM
The reason for the Sori comparison is that neither has any patience. I mean you guys get on Arod for clutch hitting and now you want to defend Soriano who swings at anything within 3 feet of the plate in the postseason ? I mean cmon. And Cano wont even give you the 40 homers that Sori gives you. Look I like Cano as much as the next guy but if you could get him straight up for Beltrn you do it in a heartbeat. I know hes a homegrown guy but please stop overating him. And Kennedy and either bruney or veras does not hold up a Beltran deal.

Now this talk of Hughes is crazy. There is now no way you could trade hughes for anything but an ace since you didnt trade him for Santana.

The Soriano comparison isn't valid though because while both have limited patience the similarities end there. Cano is a contact hitter who has the potential to be a batting champion. His career average of .303 is better than Soriano's average in any year throughout his career. Soriano is a power hitter with speed who strikes out a lot. Cano despite his lack of patience doesn't strike out anywhere near as much as Soriano as his problem is hitting bad pitches into easy outs. Whereas Soriano swings at things he can't hit.

teknetic
10-11-08, 05:47 PM
The reason for the Sori comparison is that neither has any patience. I mean you guys get on Arod for clutch hitting and now you want to defend Soriano who swings at anything within 3 feet of the plate in the postseason ? I mean cmon. And Cano wont even give you the 40 homers that Sori gives you.

Then how are they comparable!?

Do you know how comparisons work? It's not just based on one facet of the game (lack of patience in this case) Going by your method, Brett Gardner is comparable to Ichiro because he runs fast.

Abe Frohman
10-11-08, 07:03 PM
Its funny how in 2006 when Cano Hit .340 he was being compared to Rod Carew. He has an off-year and you guys are going nuts with the insight.

Hitman23
10-11-08, 10:20 PM
I've read through this thread and I'm thoroughly entertained by it. I still can't get passed how the Mets would give up Beltran for nothing though. Are we not passed the thought process of the Yankees being able to get who they want for whatever they want at any time?

DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
10-11-08, 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
I would love to get Beltran to play for us in CF, especially since he wanted to be a Yankee and offered them a discount before signing with the Mets. But would the Mets be willing to trade him and for who? They desperately need pitching, and a good second baseman. The best I would offer would be Hughes, Cano and Jose Veras.


Are you nuts.. Beltran's not that good to warrant such a package!!

Well, I see Cano as a very lackadaisical player. Sometimes he plays really good, other times he acts so nonchalant. We need a 2nd baseman who is hungry. Secondly, Hughes is another Nick Johnson. Good when he's healthy but always coming down with an injury. And Veras can be replaced with the plethora of minor league pitchers we have such as Humberto Sanchez.

Meanwhile Beltran would fill that CF spot as well as the #3 slot in the lineup to perfection as he is a switch-hitter. 27 homers, 112 RBI's and .284 average. Then we sign 2 FA pitchers that don't want the world and possibly Mark Teixeira and we're set for years to come. The Lineup:

1. Damon .......... LF
2. Jeter...............SS
3. Beltran............CF .
4. ARod .............3B
5. Teixeira...........1B
6. Nady...............RF
7. Posada............C
8. Matsui.............DH
9. 2nd Baseman....2B Maybe David Eckstein or someone from our minor leagues who can field.

Rotation: Wang, Mussina (maybe), Joba, Derek Lowe, Aceves, and maybe Phil Coke as long man and/or starter. Another possible FA pitcher that ARod has asked the Yankee brass to look at is Freddy Garcia. He's coming off shoulder surgery and looked good in 2 out of 3 of his outings with Detroit. I don't want to see Andy Pettitte back unless he signs for a lot less and has a sound arm.

Slioman
10-12-08, 12:55 AM
Well, I see Cano as a very lackadaisical player. Sometimes he plays really good, other times he acts so nonchalant. We need a 2nd baseman who is hungry. Secondly, Hughes is another Nick Johnson. Good when he's healthy but always coming down with an injury. And Veras can be replaced with the plethora of minor league pitchers we have such as Humberto Sanchez.


I do agree about the bullpen, for the most part. I'd still give Hughes a shot, really. He could turn into something good, or perhaps he'll be oft-injured. Hard to tell. I honestly see no problem with Cano's nonchalance, though.


Meanwhile Beltran would fill that CF spot as well as the #3 slot in the lineup to perfection as he is a switch-hitter. 27 homers, 112 RBI's and .284 average. Then we sign 2 FA pitchers that don't want the world and possibly Mark Teixeira and we're set for years to come. The Lineup:

1. Damon .......... LF
2. Jeter...............SS
3. Beltran............CF .
4. ARod .............3B
5. Teixeira...........1B
6. Nady...............RF
7. Posada............C
8. Matsui.............DH
9. 2nd Baseman....2B Maybe David Eckstein or someone from our minor leagues who can field.



Rotation: Wang, Mussina (maybe), Joba, Derek Lowe, Aceves, and maybe Phil Coke as long man and/or starter. Another possible FA pitcher that ARod has asked the Yankee brass to look at is Freddy Garcia. He's coming off shoulder surgery and looked good in 2 out of 3 of his outings with Detroit. I don't want to see Andy Pettitte back unless he signs for a lot less and has a sound arm.

David Eckstein, are you serious? That guy can't hit at all and he ended the year TERRIBLY for Arizona. In terms of no-hit all-field guys, I would want them even less. I'd rather have Cano and the best out of Christian/Gardner/Damon/Cabrera in center, rather than such a black hole. If we can bring back Mussina, Lowe, another FA pitcher, and Teixeira, I'll be impressed.

Abe Frohman
10-12-08, 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
I would love to get Beltran to play for us in CF, especially since he wanted to be a Yankee and offered them a discount before signing with the Mets. But would the Mets be willing to trade him and for who? They desperately need pitching, and a good second baseman. The best I would offer would be Hughes, Cano and Jose Veras.



Well, I see Cano as a very lackadaisical player. Sometimes he plays really good, other times he acts so nonchalant. We need a 2nd baseman who is hungry. Secondly, Hughes is another Nick Johnson. Good when he's healthy but always coming down with an injury. And Veras can be replaced with the plethora of minor league pitchers we have such as Humberto Sanchez.



Im sick and tired of this Robinson Cano nonsense. the dude had a bad year
and now all of a sudden he sucks ? Phil Hughes cant stay healthy ? What
dont you guys understand about YOUTH ? Youth is the name of the game
right now. We need these young players if we're going to keep up with the
competition.

were not even the best team in our own friggin division and you guys wanna
trade away our young talent for friggin Carlos Beltran. Not that the mutts
would do it, but this line of thinking upsets me. How impatient can you guys be ?
It'd be funny if we do end up trading one of these guys away and it turns into a
Kazmir type debacle. I dont think the jokes would EVER stop on these forums ...
itd just go on forever.

ajra21
10-12-08, 04:36 AM
beltran is 31. not acient of course but i thought we were trying to get younger?

teknetic
10-12-08, 09:32 AM
We need a 2nd baseman who is hungry.
9. 2nd Baseman....2B. Maybe David Eckstein or someone from our minor leagues who can field.



Too bad his hungriness hasn't given him the ability to hit. :(

bigjf
10-12-08, 09:44 AM
I'd rather get Orlando Hudson to play 2B if hell were to freeze over and we were able to get Beltran...maybe even Furcal if he was willing to play 2B, but I see that as even less likely than the Beltran trade.

BigTrain
10-13-08, 10:32 AM
http://gothambaseballmagazine.com/yankees/credibility-package.html

Cano may not be playing for the Yankees next season, but Beltran will be a Met. Cmmon, guys, real trade talks haven't even started yet. The playoffs are still on, Winter meetings haven't started, and bloggers are flying off the handle with this nonsense.

montrealer
10-13-08, 10:43 AM
http://gothambaseballmagazine.com/yankees/credibility-package.html

Cano may not be playing for the Yankees next season, but Beltran will be a Met. Cmmon, guys, real trade talks haven't even started yet. The playoffs are still on, Winter meetings haven't started, and bloggers are flying off the handle with this nonsense.
Get use to it...........usually once the play-offs are over I get the Hell outta here. It`s mostly are guessing,wishing and drivel in here for the next while.:lol: Oh yeah........you`ll also get at least one multi trade deal with the Yankees that will get rid of all our dead weight ,overpaid FA of the past for all the other teams blue chip players. Also I guess you didn`t realize that MLB is actually the Yankees Farm system.........Last but not least you`ll hear" Get it done Cash"......

By the way ....Welcome to the site.....but be warned...the ITL is not for the faint-hearted.....:gulp:

Yankee Fan in Boston
10-13-08, 10:51 AM
http://gothambaseballmagazine.com/yankees/credibility-package.html

Cano may not be playing for the Yankees next season, but Beltran will be a Met. Cmmon, guys, real trade talks haven't even started yet. The playoffs are still on, Winter meetings haven't started, and bloggers are flying off the handle with this nonsense.

Logic will get you no where... Didn't the title of the thread tip that off? ;)

BigTrain
10-13-08, 11:01 AM
Get use to it...........usually once the play-offs are over I get the Hell outta here. It`s mostly are guessing,wishing and drivel in here for the next while.:lol: Oh yeah........you`ll also get at least one multi trade deal with the Yankees that will get rid of all our dead weight ,overpaid FA of the past for all the other teams blue chip players. Also I guess you didn`t realize that MLB is actually the Yankees Farm system.........Last but not least you`ll hear" Get it done Cash"......

By the way ....Welcome to the site.....but be warned...the ITL is not for the faint-hearted.....:gulp:

Thanks for the welcome... and you're right, I guess this is the time to let people debate endlessly about hot air. I'll be back after the winter meetings haha.

montrealer
10-13-08, 11:03 AM
Thanks for the welcome... and you're right, I guess this is the time to let people debate endlessly about hot air. I'll be back after the winter meetings haha.
Yep.........That`s when I`ll be back.......

ksison
10-13-08, 11:08 AM
i'd insist for the mets to take Igawa

yankeesrule2000
10-13-08, 02:56 PM
http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080925&content_id=1455898&oid=36019&vkey=6


Cano for Beltran???

aeromac76
10-13-08, 03:03 PM
http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080925&content_id=1455898&oid=36019&vkey=6


Cano for Beltran???

I would not. Cano makes a lot less and I actually think cano will be the better player.
Beltran is a career .280 hitter or close to it. We lambasted Robbie for a year from hell and he still hit .271.
In other words, in a year where Cano was deemed to be god forsakenly awful he just about hit Beltran's career average.
Beltran has more power, but Cano has enough. And Beltran gets on base more to be sure. But again, you see what you get from Beltran, Cano could morph into something a whole lot better. And he is a whole lot cheaper.

I am not interested in dealing Cano on the cheap and watching him go back to a .320 or better hitter with GG defense at 2nd base for someone else.
We have bigger problems than Robbie Cano.

yanksphan
10-13-08, 03:05 PM
http://www.yesnetwork.com/news/artic...d=36019&vkey=6


Cano for Beltran???

SO last week.

kafa
10-13-08, 04:48 PM
I would not. Cano makes a lot less and I actually think cano will be the better player.
Beltran is a career .280 hitter or close to it. We lambasted Robbie for a year from hell and he still hit .271.
In other words, in a year where Cano was deemed to be god forsakenly awful he just about hit Beltran's career average.
Beltran has more power, but Cano has enough. And Beltran gets on base more to be sure. But again, you see what you get from Beltran, Cano could morph into something a whole lot better. And he is a whole lot cheaper.

I am not interested in dealing Cano on the cheap and watching him go back to a .320 or better hitter with GG defense at 2nd base for someone else.
We have bigger problems than Robbie Cano.

It'll never happen but this post is rather silly. So you admit that he gets on base more than Cano and has more power, and yet because of some imagined superior potential (it must some really incredible potential) you wouldn't do the trade. Beltran also plays great defense, runs the bases better than cano etc, etc. So besides cost, and "potential" I don't see why someone wouldnt do this.

JL25and3
10-14-08, 06:04 AM
It'll never happen but this post is rather silly. So you admit that he gets on base more than Cano and has more power, and yet because of some imagined superior potential (it must some really incredible potential) you wouldn't do the trade. Beltran also plays great defense, runs the bases better than cano etc, etc. So besides cost, and "potential" I don't see why someone wouldnt do this.I agree. The only are where Cano might be better than Beltran is in BA - but since Beltran will still have a better OBP and hit for more power, BA is kind of moot.

As for potential, I think it's very possible that Cano will become more consistent with his BA. But he's not going to "morph" into a different sort of hitter.

Edit: The statement that "Beltran is a career .280 hitter or close to it. We lambasted Robbie for a year from hell and he still hit .271" shows just how hollow a measure BA can be. Beltran's .281 career BA translates into a 118 OPS+; in 2006 he hit .275 but had a 150 OPS+. Cano's .271 last year translated into an 88 OPS+.

aeromac76
10-14-08, 07:27 AM
It'll never happen but this post is rather silly. So you admit that he gets on base more than Cano and has more power, and yet because of some imagined superior potential (it must some really incredible potential) you wouldn't do the trade. Beltran also plays great defense, runs the bases better than cano etc, etc. So besides cost, and "potential" I don't see why someone wouldnt do this.

1) I don't see it as imagined potential, he hit .342 in the very recent past and prior to this season, had many of us own Yankee fans comparing him to Utley as the bet second baseman in baseball. This is not anything imagined, this is something he has already done. And not 10 years ago, verty recently.

2) You cannot ignore the huge difference in contract. It is a factor. Esp if we want to go out and sign some big time free agents for mega moola.

3) The proposed trade was not a straight up, it was for Cano and some other players of note. Which makes it even more of a good deal for the Mets and less so for the yankees.

3)

kafa
10-14-08, 09:53 AM
1) I don't see it as imagined potential, he hit .342 in the very recent past and prior to this season, had many of us own Yankee fans comparing him to Utley as the bet second baseman in baseball. This is not anything imagined, this is something he has already done. And not 10 years ago, verty recently.

2) You cannot ignore the huge difference in contract. It is a factor. Esp if we want to go out and sign some big time free agents for mega moola.

3) The proposed trade was not a straight up, it was for Cano and some other players of note. Which makes it even more of a good deal for the Mets and less so for the yankees.

3)

Even in a year when Cano hit 342, which may ultimately prove his highest batting average, his OBP was still only 365. Beltran while his batting average has never been close to 342 routinely exceeds 365 in on base percentage. Beltran's OPS+ is always higher than Cano's as well. So while I agree with you that the contract situation and the other players the yankees may have to give up would make the trade unattractive, it isn't because cano is better (or likely will be better) than Beltran.

KeithF40
10-15-08, 01:06 AM
whats the status on this trade as of now

yankeeman61
10-15-08, 07:15 AM
whats the status on this trade as of now

The status would be as follows:

Bloggers and fan forums are still negotiating the rumor

Double-J
10-15-08, 04:21 PM
Wang, Mussina (maybe), Joba, Derek Lowe, Aceves, and maybe Phil Coke as long man and/or starter. Another possible FA pitcher that ARod has asked the Yankee brass to look at is Freddy Garcia. He's coming off shoulder surgery and looked good in 2 out of 3 of his outings with Detroit. I don't want to see Andy Pettitte back unless he signs for a lot less and has a sound arm.

Is that seriously the rotation you want next year? And then sign Freddy Garcia...?

That rotation is pretty much a wing and a prayer. And it has about a snowball's chance in hell of doing anything other than falling flat on its face. Out of that whole lot, Wang and Joba are the only two who we know can/will pitch effectively in the AL East. Hughes is a question mark, Aceves and Coke have have all of a month of experience, and Mussina is probably going to retire. Lowe is coming back to the AL East after pitching in the NL East, and Garcia is floating around for a reason (feel free to replace his name with a Ponson, Rasner, etc.)

MaximMan121
10-15-08, 04:34 PM
The title of this thread kills me.

Yes. And if Scarlett Johansen wanted to give me herself, I'd "jump on it" too.

What's your point?

Why not list every other player we'd be willing to take for basically nothing?

I hate pointless threads.

mrmike98
10-15-08, 07:54 PM
Belran is going in the same direction as this thread. Nowhere!

ksison
10-16-08, 08:32 AM
a point brought up by Francesa on his show was that Beltran took the Mets offer and offered a discounted price to the Yanks.. I didn't know that, I guess he really wanted to be a Yankee?

sabermet prospectus
10-16-08, 10:01 AM
The title of this thread kills me.

Yes. And if Scarlett Johansen wanted to give me herself, I'd "jump on it" too.

What's your point?

Why not list every other player we'd be willing to take for basically nothing?

I hate pointless threads.
Not pointless. This was a rumor that was on the front page of websites like Espn and Yes network.com I didnt mean literraly nothing but I considered Cano+ as nothing.

As it turns out some minor sugestion by I think Neyer was completly overblown.

CommerceComet
10-16-08, 03:20 PM
Obviously this is true - we should indeed take Beltran if he's available for nothing. Similarly, we should absolutely sign CC if he'll play for cheeseburgers.Have you looked at CC's waistline recently? This might not be a bargain afterall.;)

Jumpman_DJ
10-16-08, 06:02 PM
The title of this thread kills me.

Yes. And if Scarlett Johansen wanted to give me herself, I'd "jump on it" too.

What's your point?

Why not list every other player we'd be willing to take for basically nothing?

I hate pointless threads.

Well If Eva Mendes wanted to give herself to me then Id jump on that too