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Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 01:05 AM
I've been thinking about this all day and i came to the conclusion that this organization as a whole,
is SO done for, its just gut - wrenching as a fan to have to live through this. Some of you maybe
haven't realized it yet, but we won't be seeing # 27 for a long while. Just watch this offseason for
proof of what im saying. After all of the money Cashman has thrown away at complete and utter
garbage, and now that he's finally being given the chance to clean house, here come the next
batch of mega contracts that more than likely wont net the return we're all expecting, a WS ring.

This organization needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. This isn't the circus ... this is
a Baseball team. What i mean by that is we need to get away from the Superstars and get players
in here that are going to get the job done. Period. Yeah i know, Superstars sell tickets, and they
need that with the NYS looming, but damn ... do you really want to want to win or is this some gimmick ???
Cause this All - Star at every position crap isn't going to cut it anymore. But were stuck because
we HAVE to sign superstars because we HAVE to sellout every game.

The game of baseball is changing. You see our old, tired ass bunch of overpaid losers march into
cities like Pittsburgh and KC, Baltimore, ummm friggin TAMPA and get their brains beaten in because
Youth and chemistry are the name of the game now and we lack both. You may say, well where are
PP and KC in the standings... yeah they stink but they sure do a helluva good job making us look bad.
Running circles around our old bunch. And look at Tampa ... o man. no one in their lineup is batting
over .300 yet theyre in 1st place and on their way to the Post, maybe even a WS with all the mojo
they got goin on over there. we have like 6 .300 hitters and they'll all be playing golf in october...
PATHETIC.

Handing out multi - million dollar contracts to old ass players. And letting the young ones go.
Carlos Pena and Dioner Navarro were both Yankees.Pettitte, Clemens, Posada ... in a few years
Jeter will get his too when his production wont even equal a 1/4 of what they'll pay him. we're
always talking about these cornerstones of our team, the Jeters and Posadas and what not.
Go look at the Bosox. If you're not fitting in well with the team or not getting you're job done,
Gone, finished ... thanks for your services. Clemens, Pedro, Lowe, Manny, Millar, Nixon - all
gone and the ball kept rolling without them. Even poor Varitek - THE CAPTAIN OF THE TEAM is
crazy if he thinks hes getting some monster contract in the offseason. If he gets snooty he'll be
gone too... and the ball will keep rolling... and when it looks like the ball just cant roll anymore the
way its setup, they take a few steps back to make some giant leaps forward, see 2006. Now, i am
not a Redsox fan by any stretch of the imagination: But i give props when they're due and right now,
that team is making Theo and the organization as a whole look like the best and smartest by far, in
all of baseball. I mean EVERYTHING that man does for that team turns out well. Jesus ! ! !

The dude just has the pulse of his team and knows exactly the kinds of players that will perform for him.
The Pedroias, millars, muellers, bellhorns, gritty, gutsy, ballsy players that will run through a wall for
their team and to win. This falling in permanent love with what a player has done in the past needs to end
if we're to strike fear into teams again ... right now they're ROTFL at us.

for instance: Not putting A-Rod at SS when he first got here was an organizational mistake.
I mean the dude was hands-down the best SS in the entire MLB. Jeter has never been nor will
ever be half the SS A-Rod was but nooooo ... Jeter cannot be moved from SS like its etched in
stone or something. They put Jeter before the team in that instance and now theyre paying for
it and will continue to pay mass amounts of money for a subpar SS who cant field the position
anymore till hes 40 and decides to retire after the massive contract extension he'll get... because hes Jeter.
Im sorry but i'd rather give the team its best chance to win than not hurt Derek Jeters feelings.

Im sick of this horses*** ... im sick of watching everyone elses young players make our old players
look ummm ... old and then go hi - fiving eachother in the dugout cause they just whooped the 200
mil dollar yankees. This team needs an overhaul. complete makeover. It starts this offseason. Signing
CC and Tex aint gonna get it done. Sorry this is so long but im just pissed and frustrated and yeah i
typed regular cause i really want you to listen.

dougj1
09-02-08, 03:44 AM
Your complaints are interesting but are well known....For some reason, you have skirted around the solution to all the complaints. The answer of course is to replace the General Mgr. CASHMAN!..True, the owners of the team, who have no interest other than financial,and who have only seen them at YS 2-3 times this season are compounding the problem.....Cashman will probably be re-signed for a multiple year contract in a few weeks.....Don't look for a WS flag anytime soon..It may take the passing of George and the sale of the club, with new management who will fire Cashman to make them winners again.

b_joseph
09-02-08, 04:03 AM
http://www.lasplash.com/uploads/1/chicken_little.jpg

yanksphan
09-02-08, 06:05 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Enter.png

mrmike98
09-02-08, 07:01 AM
I've been thinking about this all day and i came to the conclusion that this organization as a whole, is SO done for, its just gut - wrenching as a fan to have to live through this. Some of you maybe haven't realized it yet, but we won't be seeing # 27 for a long while. Just watch this offseason for proof of what im saying. After all of the money Cashman has thrown away at complete and utter garbage, and now that he's finally being given the chance to clean house, here come the next batch of mega contracts that more than likely wont net the return we're all expecting, a WS ring. This organization needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. This isn't the circus ... this is a Baseball team. What i mean by that is we need to get away from the Superstars and get players in here that are going to get the job done. Period. Yeah i know, Superstars sell tickets, and they need that with the NYS looming, but damn ... do you really want to want to win or is this some gimmick ??? Cause this All - Star at every position crap isn't going to cut it anymore. But were stuck because we HAVE to sign superstars because we HAVE to sellout every game. The game of baseball is changing. You see our old, tired ass bunch of overpaid losers march into cities like Pittsburgh and KC, Baltimore, ummm friggin TAMPA and get their brains beaten in because Youth and chemistry are the name of the game now and we lack both. You may say, well where are PP and KC in the standings... yeah they stink but they sure do a helluva good job making us look bad. Running circles around our old bunch. And look at Tampa ... o man. no one in their lineup is batting over .300 yet theyre in 1st place and on their way to the Post, maybe even a WS with all the mojo they got goin on over there. we have like 6 .300 hitters and they'll all be playing golf in october... PATHETIC. Handing out multi - million dollar contracts to old ass players. And letting the young ones go. Carlos Pena and Dioner Navarro were both Yankees.Pettitte, Clemens, Posada ... in a few years Jeter will get his too when his production wont even equal a 1/4 of what they'll pay him. we're always talking about these cornerstones of our team, the Jeters and Posadas and what not. Go look at the Bosox. If you're not fitting in well with the team or not getting you're job done, Gone, finished ... thanks for your services. Clemens, Pedro, Lowe, Manny, Millar, Nixon - all gone and the ball kept rolling without them. Even poor Varitek - THE CAPTAIN OF THE TEAM is crazy if he thinks hes getting some monster contract in the offseason. If he gets snooty he'll be gone too... and the ball will keep rolling... and when it looks like the ball just cant roll anymore the way its setup, they take a few steps back to make some giant leaps forward, see 2006. Now, i am not a Redsox fan by any stretch of the imagination: But i give props when they're due and right now, that team is making Theo and the organization as a whole look like the best and smartest by far, in all of baseball. I mean EVERYTHING that man does for that team turns out well. Jesus ! ! ! The dude just has the pulse of his team and knows exactly the kinds of players that will perform for him. The Pedroias, millars, muellers, bellhorns, gritty, gutsy, ballsy players that will run through a wall for their team and to win. This falling in permanent love with what a player has done in the past needs to end if we're to strike fear into teams again ... right now they're ROTFL at us. for instance: Not putting A-Rod at SS when he first got here was an organizational mistake. I mean the dude was hands-down the best SS in the entire MLB. Jeter has never been nor will ever be half the SS A-Rod was but nooooo ... Jeter cannot be moved from SS like its etched in stone or something. They put Jeter before the team in that instance and now theyre paying for it and will continue to pay mass amounts of money for a subpar SS who cant field the position anymore till hes 40 and decides to retire after the massive contract extension he'll get... because hes Jeter. Im sorry but i'd rather give the team its best chance to win than not hurt Derek Jeters feelings. Im sick of this horses*** ... im sick of watching everyone elses young players make our old players look ummm ... old and then go hi - fiving eachother in the dugout cause they just whooped the 200 mil dollar yankees. This team needs an overhaul. complete makeover. It starts this offseason. Signing CC and Tex aint gonna get it done. Sorry this is so long but im just pissed and frustrated and yeah i typed regular cause i really want you to listen.

Mercy! I'll buy into your argument about Boston.Yes, we've seen more production by far from their minor league system than ours.

Along the same lines, let's not kid ourselves about A-Rod. If he was installed at short the outcomes would not have been any different. Jeter's defense hasn't been what's ailing this team on the field. In a few years neither of them will be the answer at that position.

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 08:31 AM
Mercy! I'll buy into your argument about Boston.Yes, we've seen more production by far from their minor league system than ours.

Along the same lines, let's not kid ourselves about A-Rod. If he was installed at short the outcomes would not have been any different. Jeter's defense hasn't been what's ailing this team on the field. In a few years neither of them will be the answer at that position.

Its not just the Jeter SS thing though ... its that train of thought that bothers me. How a player cannot change positions even though it makes the team WAY better, because of what he did 4 years ago. Or how fossils find their way back into pinstripes because of what they did for this team once upon a time. This needs to stop. Whatever puts this team at a better position to W-I-N is what needs to be done.

b_joseph
09-02-08, 08:43 AM
Its not just the Jeter SS thing though ... its that train of thought that bothers me. How a player cannot change positions even though it makes the team WAY better, because of what he did 4 years ago. Or how fossils find their way back into pinstripes because of what they did for this team once upon a time. This needs to stop. Whatever puts this team at a better position to W-I-N is what needs to be done.And thats what they have been doing since 1995.
I swear you act like we have made it a habit of missing the playoffs. We've had a bad season, changes will be made in the Off-season and we will improve for 2009.

Put down the razor blades and step away from the ledge.

hardrain
09-02-08, 08:47 AM
Please..Abe..I'm begging you. Now that you have learned to single space, please learn how to make paragraph breaks.

I'd love to read your post, but I can't without getting nauseous.

It's the enter button.

Casey37
09-02-08, 08:53 AM
Along the same lines, let's not kid ourselves about A-Rod. If he was installed at short the outcomes would not have been any different. Jeter's defense hasn't been what's ailing this team on the field. In a few years neither of them will be the answer at that position.

Bingo.

montrealer
09-02-08, 08:58 AM
Hell......it`s been 8 years since we one a WS.......time flies when we`re not having fun.....

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 08:58 AM
fixed it ... lol

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 09:03 AM
And thats what they have been doing since 1995.
I swear you act like we have made it a habit of missing the playoffs. We've had a bad season, changes will be made in the Off-season and we will improve for 2009.

Put down the razor blades and step away from the ledge.

Oh yeah, cause young position players to replace our Fossils are just going to appear.
Its like i said, making Tex and CC set for life isnt the answer. This organization has us
thinking that throwing loads of money at the problem is the answer and its so far from the answer.

BRNXBMRS
09-02-08, 09:07 AM
The more & more I read & think about it, Cashman needs to go. He tried its not working. I agree 100% with not giving out the "mega contracts" It doesnt work like that.

montrealer
09-02-08, 09:18 AM
I agree.........throwing boat loads of money is not the answer. We have to go back to what worked in the late 80`s and early 90`s to give us the team we had during the glory years.......And that`s the farm system. But that takes time and Patience and is something I`ve never seen during the Steinbrenner era....

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 09:21 AM
The more & more I read & think about it, Cashman needs to go. He tried its not working. I agree 100% with not giving out the "mega contracts" It doesnt work like that.

People say we're spoiled and we won a WS 8 years ago and we want to win every year.
EVERY team wants to win every year. Yet, some of the decisions this organization has
made in these last 8 years have really been assanine and detremental to the future.
Cashman has stocked the minors with young pitching and i commend him for that but its
more than just pitching. With all the money we have we should have the best scouts,
advisors, coaching staffs, overall minor league system in all of baseball. I'd rather spend
all the money down there than up here on over priced aging superstars. You think back to
all of the young talent that has slipped through our fingers, either signed by other organizations
or let go by us. We couldve had a whole team of young, up and coming superstars right now along
with a few Iconic Veterans if we had employed a different mentality.

montrealer
09-02-08, 09:26 AM
People say we're spoiled and we won a WS 8 years ago and we want to win every year. EVERY team wants to win every year. Yet, some of the decisions this organization has made in these last 8 years have really been assanine and detremental to the future. Cashman has stocked the minors with young pitching
and i commend him for that but its more than just pitching. With all the money we have we should have the best scouts, coaching staffs, overall minor league system in all of baseball. I'd rather spend all the money down there than up here on over priced aging superstars.

Now ...that I will agree....it starts with the farm and ends with the farm. FA are great to complete a puzzle......not be the basis of that puzzle.

tdel23
09-02-08, 09:28 AM
I wonder if the Yankees will ever win a game again?

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 09:34 AM
I wonder if the Yankees will ever win a game again?

Sarcasm ... wheres the Sarcasm when in spring training the Steinbrenners come
out and say " we're gonna win it all " and then we get ousted in the 1st round or dont
even make the playoffs at all cause we're too old and not driven cause we're all rich.
If youre content with this team ... Kudos to ya.

Bub
09-02-08, 09:40 AM
1 year out of the playoffs since 1995. I think I'd rather wait at least another full season before decommissioning the structure.

Brick Tamland
09-02-08, 09:41 AM
I've been thinking about this all day and i came to the conclusion that this organization as a whole,
is SO done for, its just gut - wrenching as a fan to have to live through this. Some of you maybe
haven't realized it yet, but we won't be seeing # 27 for a long while. Just watch this offseason for
proof of what im saying. After all of the money Cashman has thrown away at complete and utter
garbage, and now that he's finally being given the chance to clean house, here come the next
batch of mega contracts that more than likely wont net the return we're all expecting, a WS ring.

This organization needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. This isn't the circus ... this is
a Baseball team. What i mean by that is we need to get away from the Superstars and get players
in here that are going to get the job done. Period. Yeah i know, Superstars sell tickets, and they
need that with the NYS looming, but damn ... do you really want to want to win or is this some gimmick ???
Cause this All - Star at every position crap isn't going to cut it anymore. But were stuck because
we HAVE to sign superstars because we HAVE to sellout every game.

The game of baseball is changing. You see our old, tired ass bunch of overpaid losers march into
cities like Pittsburgh and KC, Baltimore, ummm friggin TAMPA and get their brains beaten in because
Youth and chemistry are the name of the game now and we lack both. You may say, well where are
PP and KC in the standings... yeah they stink but they sure do a helluva good job making us look bad.
Running circles around our old bunch. And look at Tampa ... o man. no one in their lineup is batting
over .300 yet theyre in 1st place and on their way to the Post, maybe even a WS with all the mojo
they got goin on over there. we have like 6 .300 hitters and they'll all be playing golf in october...
PATHETIC.

Handing out multi - million dollar contracts to old ass players. And letting the young ones go.
Carlos Pena and Dioner Navarro were both Yankees.Pettitte, Clemens, Posada ... in a few years
Jeter will get his too when his production wont even equal a 1/4 of what they'll pay him. we're
always talking about these cornerstones of our team, the Jeters and Posadas and what not.
Go look at the Bosox. If you're not fitting in well with the team or not getting you're job done,
Gone, finished ... thanks for your services. Clemens, Pedro, Lowe, Manny, Millar, Nixon - all
gone and the ball kept rolling without them. Even poor Varitek - THE CAPTAIN OF THE TEAM is
crazy if he thinks hes getting some monster contract in the offseason. If he gets snooty he'll be
gone too... and the ball will keep rolling... and when it looks like the ball just cant roll anymore the
way its setup, they take a few steps back to make some giant leaps forward, see 2006. Now, i am
not a Redsox fan by any stretch of the imagination: But i give props when they're due and right now,
that team is making Theo and the organization as a whole look like the best and smartest by far, in
all of baseball. I mean EVERYTHING that man does for that team turns out well. Jesus ! ! !

The dude just has the pulse of his team and knows exactly the kinds of players that will perform for him.
The Pedroias, millars, muellers, bellhorns, gritty, gutsy, ballsy players that will run through a wall for
their team and to win. This falling in permanent love with what a player has done in the past needs to end
if we're to strike fear into teams again ... right now they're ROTFL at us.

for instance: Not putting A-Rod at SS when he first got here was an organizational mistake.
I mean the dude was hands-down the best SS in the entire MLB. Jeter has never been nor will
ever be half the SS A-Rod was but nooooo ... Jeter cannot be moved from SS like its etched in
stone or something. They put Jeter before the team in that instance and now theyre paying for
it and will continue to pay mass amounts of money for a subpar SS who cant field the position
anymore till hes 40 and decides to retire after the massive contract extension he'll get... because hes Jeter.
Im sorry but i'd rather give the team its best chance to win than not hurt Derek Jeters feelings.

Im sick of this horses*** ... im sick of watching everyone elses young players make our old players
look ummm ... old and then go hi - fiving eachother in the dugout cause they just whooped the 200
mil dollar yankees. This team needs an overhaul. complete makeover. It starts this offseason. Signing
CC and Tex aint gonna get it done. Sorry this is so long but im just pissed and frustrated and yeah i
typed regular cause i really want you to listen.

I get the frustration with this team but it's not as if the Yankees have been perennial losers for the past 8 years. The late '90's run was amazing. Dynasties are extremely rare. The last comparable "Dynasty" run prior to the Yanks latest was the A's back in the early '70's. That's 30 years earlier, and they only (only??) won 3 WS titles. Success like this doesn't happen every day.

The Red Sox are trending in the right direction. Their player development success has far outweighed that of the Yankees recently, no question. Pedroia's been amazing this year. Youklis continues to blossom into one of the league's best hitters at the plate and defenders in the field. Jacoby Ellsbury has added another dimension to their offense with lightning speed, not to mention giving them extremely solid defense. Lester might be one of the best pitchers in baseball and Papelbon (even though he's a clown) is one of the top 3 closers in all of baseball.

For whatever reason, the Yankee prospects have not progressed as quickly as their counterparts on the RS. Cano has shown flashes of brilliance, but has regressed since his amazing '06 season. Melky has taken repeated steps back since his first year. Gardner is not a major leaguer. Hughes has been hurt and hasn't been able to get his innings up. Kennedy is a head case. Joba's been flat out brilliant. All in all, the only guy who's fulfilled his promise is Joba. I have a lot of faith in Hughes and even Kennedy to come around in the next couple of years.

I actually disagree with you. I think this team is actually headed in the right direction. Tons of money coming off the books and there is undeniable talent in the minors. It just needs time to develop. I'm also confident that Cano will rebound next year. I'm going to hold of on judging Cashman's moves this off-season until I see what he actually does. Don't despair, all is not lost. The Yanks will be back next season, and I like their chances to make a run at the playoffs with a good signing like CC.

montrealer
09-02-08, 09:44 AM
Earl Weaver......whom in my mind was one of the great Baseball minds of his era, once said "You`re only as good as the middle position players of your team" Catcher,pitching,SS,2nd and CF..............and we`re weak in all aspects.

Brick Tamland
09-02-08, 09:52 AM
Earl Weaver......whom in my mind was one of the great Baseball minds of his era, once said "You`re only as good as the middle position players of your team" Catcher,pitching,SS,2nd and CF..............and we`re weak in all aspects.

Very true. The Yanks are going to need to find replacements for Posada, Jeter and Bernie (since The Melk Man doesn't seem to be the answer). I like the young pitchers they've got in the minors, and Wang is a 1 or 2 guy. All in all though you're right, they need to get better up the middle. A lot better.

BRNXBMRS
09-02-08, 10:16 AM
I actually disagree with you. I think this team is actually headed in the right direction. Tons of money coming off the books and there is undeniable talent in the minors. It just needs time to develop. I'm also confident that Cano will rebound next year. I'm going to hold of on judging Cashman's moves this off-season until I see what he actually does. Don't despair, all is not lost. The Yanks will be back next season, and I like their chances to make a run at the playoffs with a good signing like CC.

Tons of $$$ is coming off the books, but that doesnt mean that the Yanks have to go out and spend all of that $$ again. Milwaukee is running CC into the ground b/c he isnt going to stay there. Did Sheets just have arm troubles yesterday. I feel the Teixeria is going to be another Giambi. If they spend the $$ they need to spend it wisely.

JL25and3
09-02-08, 10:25 AM
I agree.........throwing boat loads of money is not the answer. We have to go back to what worked in the late 80`s and early 90`s to give us the team we had during the glory years.......And that`s the farm system. But that takes time and Patience and is something I`ve never seen during the Steinbrenner era....It also takes a lot of losing - pretty serious losing. That was an essential part of that building process.

JohnnyDamonfan
09-02-08, 10:27 AM
Tons of $$$ is coming off the books, but that doesnt mean that the Yanks have to go out and spend all of that $$ again. Milwaukee is running CC into the ground b/c he isnt going to stay there. Did Sheets just have arm troubles yesterday. I feel the Teixeria is going to be another Giambi. If they spend the $$ they need to spend it wisely.

Tell me then if not CC then who? We can't surviove a season with just Wang Hughes, Kennedy, Joba ???? . We need to make some changes and CC would really help especially since we got 3 guys on a innings limit next year. I understand about the whole money thing. But, we are spending our money wisely. We need a good power hitting first baseman and Tex would fit the bill. And we need a good starter who can eat innings also CC would fit that bill.

How is getting them not spending our money wisely?

tdel23
09-02-08, 10:29 AM
Sarcasm ... wheres the Sarcasm when in spring training the Steinbrenners come
out and say " we're gonna win it all " and then we get ousted in the 1st round or dont
even make the playoffs at all cause we're too old and not driven cause we're all rich.
If youre content with this team ... Kudos to ya.

i'm not content with the team, but I also don't think it's the end of the world that they will miss the playoffs this year. I don't think the future is as grim and bleak as you are making it out to be.

Brick Tamland
09-02-08, 10:31 AM
Tons of $$$ is coming off the books, but that doesnt mean that the Yanks have to go out and spend all of that $$ again. Milwaukee is running CC into the ground b/c he isnt going to stay there. Did Sheets just have arm troubles yesterday. I feel the Teixeria is going to be another Giambi. If they spend the $$ they need to spend it wisely.

Yeah I agree. I mean, that's the point isn't it? As we've seen this year, you can spend all the $$$ you want, it won't equate to success on the field unless you spend it wisely. Teixeira I'd be a little wary of just because he will command the same type of deal Giambi had, and even he has been considered a failure here while posting multiple years north of 148 OPS+. Is CC being overused? Probably a little but that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to get injured or have a dead arm next year. Maybe he won't be wortht he contract, that's for the Yankee FO to assess when the year is through. He might not even want to leave the NL or play on the east coast.

I agree with what you said about spending the money wisely 1000%. They are screwed if they start giving all the $80M+ that's coming off the books back to aging veterans who are going to under-perform. This problem is not going to get solved in one off season, I think that's pretty clear. But they Yankees can make some serious headway this year just by "trimming the fat".

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 11:25 AM
Yeah I agree. I mean, that's the point isn't it? As we've seen this year, you can spend all the $$$ you want, it won't equate to success on the field unless you spend it wisely. Teixeira I'd be a little wary of just because he will command the same type of deal Giambi had, and even he has been considered a failure here while posting multiple years north of 148 OPS+. Is CC being overused? Probably a little but that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to get injured or have a dead arm next year. Maybe he won't be wortht he contract, that's for the Yankee FO to assess when the year is through. He might not even want to leave the NL or play on the east coast.

I agree with what you said about spending the money wisely 1000%. They are screwed if they start giving all the $80M+ that's coming off the books back to aging veterans who are going to under-perform. This problem is not going to get solved in one off season, I think that's pretty clear. But they Yankees can make some serious headway this year just by "trimming the fat".

Its like just cause they're available and we have the money we HAVE to sign them. The FO needs to take a step back and figure out if thats the answer. Desperation. Desperate moves have killed us in the past and these potential signings have desperation written all over them. I just have a feeling that signing Tex and CC will not turn out well at all. Lets say CC ends up elsewhere ... then what ? we get even MORE desperate and sign AJ or Sheets ? we'll be the laughing stock of baseball if we arent already. After we hand out these mega contracts some players just arent hungry anymore, they become complacent. A-Rod is an exception, he tries TOO hard but most others laugh all the way to the bank while we're banging our heads against the wall.

BRNXBMRS
09-02-08, 11:27 AM
Tell me then if not CC then who? We can't surviove a season with just Wang Hughes, Kennedy, Joba ???? . We need to make some changes and CC would really help especially since we got 3 guys on a innings limit next year. I understand about the whole money thing. But, we are spending our money wisely. We need a good power hitting first baseman and Tex would fit the bill. And we need a good starter who can eat innings also CC would fit that bill.

How is getting them not spending our money wisely?

There are players out there to be had. The Yanks have built up some equity in the monors and maybe able to make a trade for a SP. Just b/c CC is the biggest FA available doesnt mean he is the best. This doesnt mean I am against signing him for the right # of years & price.

Brick Tamland
09-02-08, 11:54 AM
There are players out there to be had. The Yanks have built up some equity in the monors and maybe able to make a trade for a SP. Just b/c CC is the biggest FA available doesnt mean he is the best. This doesnt mean I am against signing him for the right # of years & price.

I could very well be wrong, but I'm assuming the years and dollars around going to be somewhere around 7/154. That's usually the case when Boras is involved. I'm not sure if CC is worth it, but it's imperative that the Yankees know if he is or not. Same deal with Tex and Sheets. If CC's willing to play in the AL and on the East Coast, my gut feeling is he will be a Yankee.

They have to make some moves here. If they acquire CC Sabathia, the rotation for next year improves dramatically. If Tex signs here maybe ARod could actually bat 3rd where he should be in the lineup. I don't mean to say the team needs to be "blown up", but the Yanks need to part ways with these older guys and infuse young talent.

JL25and3
09-02-08, 12:08 PM
There are players out there to be had. The Yanks have built up some equity in the monors and maybe able to make a trade for a SP. Just b/c CC is the biggest FA available doesnt mean he is the best. This doesnt mean I am against signing him for the right # of years & price.He's clearly the best pitcher available, and it costs nothing but money and a draft pick to get him. The number of years will be an issue, but I'm frankly unconcerned with the size of his salary. The Yankees are rolling in money, and will only have more - much more - when they move into the new Stadium.

brosiusbuddy
09-02-08, 12:11 PM
I've been thinking about this all day and i came to the conclusion that this organization as a whole,
is SO done for, its just gut - wrenching as a fan to have to live through this. Some of you maybe
haven't realized it yet, but we won't be seeing # 27 for a long while. Just watch this offseason for
proof of what im saying. After all of the money Cashman has thrown away at complete and utter
garbage, and now that he's finally being given the chance to clean house, here come the next
batch of mega contracts that more than likely wont net the return we're all expecting, a WS ring.

This organization needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. This isn't the circus ... this is
a Baseball team. What i mean by that is we need to get away from the Superstars and get players
in here that are going to get the job done. Period. Yeah i know, Superstars sell tickets, and they
need that with the NYS looming, but damn ... do you really want to want to win or is this some gimmick ???
Cause this All - Star at every position crap isn't going to cut it anymore. But were stuck because
we HAVE to sign superstars because we HAVE to sellout every game.

The game of baseball is changing. You see our old, tired ass bunch of overpaid losers march into
cities like Pittsburgh and KC, Baltimore, ummm friggin TAMPA and get their brains beaten in because
Youth and chemistry are the name of the game now and we lack both. You may say, well where are
PP and KC in the standings... yeah they stink but they sure do a helluva good job making us look bad.
Running circles around our old bunch. And look at Tampa ... o man. no one in their lineup is batting
over .300 yet theyre in 1st place and on their way to the Post, maybe even a WS with all the mojo
they got goin on over there. we have like 6 .300 hitters and they'll all be playing golf in october...
PATHETIC.

Handing out multi - million dollar contracts to old ass players. And letting the young ones go.
Carlos Pena and Dioner Navarro were both Yankees.Pettitte, Clemens, Posada ... in a few years
Jeter will get his too when his production wont even equal a 1/4 of what they'll pay him. we're
always talking about these cornerstones of our team, the Jeters and Posadas and what not.
Go look at the Bosox. If you're not fitting in well with the team or not getting you're job done,
Gone, finished ... thanks for your services. Clemens, Pedro, Lowe, Manny, Millar, Nixon - all
gone and the ball kept rolling without them. Even poor Varitek - THE CAPTAIN OF THE TEAM is
crazy if he thinks hes getting some monster contract in the offseason. If he gets snooty he'll be
gone too... and the ball will keep rolling... and when it looks like the ball just cant roll anymore the
way its setup, they take a few steps back to make some giant leaps forward, see 2006. Now, i am
not a Redsox fan by any stretch of the imagination: But i give props when they're due and right now,
that team is making Theo and the organization as a whole look like the best and smartest by far, in
all of baseball. I mean EVERYTHING that man does for that team turns out well. Jesus ! ! !

The dude just has the pulse of his team and knows exactly the kinds of players that will perform for him.
The Pedroias, millars, muellers, bellhorns, gritty, gutsy, ballsy players that will run through a wall for
their team and to win. This falling in permanent love with what a player has done in the past needs to end
if we're to strike fear into teams again ... right now they're ROTFL at us.

for instance: Not putting A-Rod at SS when he first got here was an organizational mistake.
I mean the dude was hands-down the best SS in the entire MLB. Jeter has never been nor will
ever be half the SS A-Rod was but nooooo ... Jeter cannot be moved from SS like its etched in
stone or something. They put Jeter before the team in that instance and now theyre paying for
it and will continue to pay mass amounts of money for a subpar SS who cant field the position
anymore till hes 40 and decides to retire after the massive contract extension he'll get... because hes Jeter.
Im sorry but i'd rather give the team its best chance to win than not hurt Derek Jeters feelings.

Im sick of this horses*** ... im sick of watching everyone elses young players make our old players
look ummm ... old and then go hi - fiving eachother in the dugout cause they just whooped the 200
mil dollar yankees. This team needs an overhaul. complete makeover. It starts this offseason. Signing
CC and Tex aint gonna get it done. Sorry this is so long but im just pissed and frustrated and yeah i
typed regular cause i really want you to listen.

I really enjoyed your usage of some good lingo.

a-RobinsonCano-Fan
09-02-08, 12:14 PM
Dont worry, this is our year!

27IsNext
09-02-08, 12:49 PM
Abe, I feel where you're coming from. Although I fully expect the Yankees to go all-out this offseason in the free agent market, I would love for nothing more than to gut the team, lose for several seasons, and rebuild with high draft picks over several years.

I went into this season having no faith that this group of players could even get past the first round of the playoffs. Now they're not even going to be playing in October. Sink the team and load the farm system up with top-tier talent to either be part of a new core on the big league club or be packages in trades to net the Yankees some young, cost-controlled athletic players who can play defense.

Also, find the next Clayton Kershaw and draft him, so we don't have to spend seven years and $160 million on C.C.

JL25and3
09-02-08, 01:03 PM
that team is making Theo and the organization as a whole look like the best and smartest by far, in
all of baseball. I mean EVERYTHING that man does for that team turns out well. Jesus ! ! !
Julio Lugo says hi.

tdel23
09-02-08, 01:37 PM
Julio Lugo says hi.

also was Theo a genius when they missed the playoffs 2 years ago?

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 02:39 PM
Patience my good friend. like I said, in 2006 they took a step back , reassembled their troops and were UNBEATABLE in 2007. that's more than we can say about our team for almost a decade now.

b_joseph
09-02-08, 02:40 PM
Oh yeah, cause young position players to replace our Fossils are just going to appear.
Its like i said, making Tex and CC set for life isnt the answer. This organization has us
thinking that throwing loads of money at the problem is the answer and its so far from the answer.It is the answer if you spend it on the correct people.
Teix..a 2-way All Star = correct answer
CC...Horse of an ace = correct answer.

And those young position players will appear when they are ready for the big leagues. Jackson, Montero, Romine, Laird, Suttle etc etc.

b_joseph
09-02-08, 02:41 PM
Patience my good friend. like I said, in 2006 they took a step back , reassembled their troops and were UNBEATABLE in 2007. that's more than we can say about our team for almost a decade now.AKA throwing money at the problem ( Dice-k, Drew for example ). The same thing that you are moaning about.

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 03:10 PM
AKA throwing money at the problem ( Dice-k, Drew for example ). The same thing that you are moaning about.

And how have they worked out ? Horrible right ? Pavano faired much better.

JohnnyDamonfan
09-02-08, 03:14 PM
There are players out there to be had. The Yanks have built up some equity in the monors and maybe able to make a trade for a SP. Just b/c CC is the biggest FA available doesnt mean he is the best. This doesnt mean I am against signing him for the right # of years & price.

He might not be the best but he is needed. Probably even more then Tex. We need a guy who can eat innings especially with 3 rookies who will be at a innings limit. What would you consider the right # of years and price? Would you be against a 5-6 year contract for CC? I don't see him coming here for less then 5 years.

yankeeman61
09-02-08, 03:20 PM
It is the answer if you spend it on the correct people.
Teix..a 2-way All Star = correct answer
CC...Horse of an ace = correct answer.

You are correct. Pavano was not correct. Jaret Wright was not correct. Giambi was not correct. Sheffield was not correct. Trading for Randy Johnson was not correct. Signing Beltran would have been correct. I'd say signing Mussina was correct. Getting Matsui was correct. Trading Soriano for ARod was a great move. There just hasn't been enough correctness in recent years. The Yankees used to make astute trades (Kelly for O'Neill, and I believe getting Nady was a good move).

While a mid-level overhaul is needed, you can't expect to build the entire team from within. The Red Sox may be producing players now, but for the most part the highest impact players from their championship teams came from other teams. Ortiz, Manny, Beckett, Schilling, Lowell, Varitek, Drew, Millar, Dice-K, Wakefield, Foulke and others all came from somewhere else. You just have to make good decisions, but to say Tex and CC should be out of the question isn't smart for any GM. Do the Yankees have a need for a switch hitting stud at 1B, or a top of the rotation LH bonafide "ace"? I say yeah, they need both and as long as the length is within reason you have to take a shot at those guys. From what I've seen from both (especially CC), they are the types of competitors who will help you quite a bit.

The Yankees have some tough decisions to make this off season. As much as I like Abreu as a hitter and baserunner, his defense and often laid back approach can be costly and I would actually let him go elsewhere since Nady can fill his spot. Giambi? No way. Give me Tex. And as talented as Cano is, his long mental lapses at the plate make me want to see what they can get for him. I still like Damon, but only as a LF. Maybe Cano can be traded for a CF. Ajax will not be ready next year and we truthfully don't know when he will become an impact player, if at all. Anyway he could backfill Damon in 2010. If Kemp were available for Cano I would jump on it and trade for a Polanco to plug into 2B. Unfortunately, the Yankees are in a bind at the catcher position. They may end up giving Pudge a 1-year deal with Posada's uncertainty. I would rather see them trade for an every day catcher, but it's hard to justify giving up player(s). It depends on whether or not they can get Tex. Posada could be the 1B whether he likes it or not, but that would be by backup plan.:)

JohnnyDamonfan
09-02-08, 03:24 PM
You are correct. Pavano was not correct. Jaret Wright was not correct. Giambi was not correct. Sheffield was not correct. Trading for Randy Johnson was not correct. Signing Beltran would have been correct. I'd say signing Mussina was correct. Getting Matsui was correct. Trading Soriano for ARod was a great move. There just hasn't been enough correctness in recent years. The Yankees used to make astute trades (Kelly for O'Neill, and I believe getting Nady was a good move).

While a mid-level overhaul is needed, you can't expect to build the entire team from within. The Red Sox may be producing players now, but for the most part the highest impact players from their championship teams came from other teams. Ortiz, Manny, Beckett, Schilling, Lowell, Varitek, Drew, Millar, Dice-K, Wakefield, Foulke and others all came from somewhere else. You just have to make good decisions, but to say Tex and CC should be out of the question isn't smart for any GM. Do the Yankees have a need for a switch hitting stud at 1B, or a top of the rotation LH bonafide "ace"? I say yeah, they need both and as long as the length is within reason you have to take a shot at those guys. From what I've seen from both (especially CC), they are the types of competitors who will help you quite a bit.

The Yankees have some tough decisions to make this off season. As much as I like Abreu as a hitter and baserunner, his defense and often laid back approach can be costly and I would actually let him go elsewhere since Nady can fill his spot. Giambi? No way. Give me Tex. And as talented as Cano is, his long mental lapses at the plate make me want to see what they can get for him. I still like Damon, but only as a LF. Maybe Cano can be traded for a CF. Ajax will not be ready next year and we truthfully don't know when he will become an impact player, if at all. Anyway he could backfill Damon in 2010. If Kemp were available for Cano I would jump on it and trade for a Polanco to plug into 2B. Unfortunately, the Yankees are in a bind at the catcher position. They may end up giving Pudge a 1-year deal with Posada's uncertainty. I would rather see them trade for an every day catcher, but it's hard to justify giving up player(s). It depends on whether or not they can get Tex. Posada could be the 1B whether he likes it or not, but that would be by backup plan.:)

So does that mean you hate Damon as a DH too? Can I please get some reasoning as to why you like Damon as a Left Fielder and not as a DH?

primetime714
09-02-08, 03:59 PM
It is the answer if you spend it on the correct people.
Teix..a 2-way All Star = correct answer
CC...Horse of an ace = correct answer.

And those young position players will appear when they are ready for the big leagues. Jackson, Montero, Romine, Laird, Suttle etc etc.

Thank You!

Investing in young superstars with relatively no injury history is a great way to spend money on improving your team now in the future.

The great thing about baseball is that we can continue to improve the team now without really hurting us in the long run. Sure by signing Type A's we lose out on a draft pick, but if you let them go you get that pick back. So this offseason we can sign CC and Tex and if we only get picks for Abreu we lose our 1st and 2nd and get a 1st and sandwich.

The Yankees problem lately has been who they've invested their money in especially in terms of pitching which in turn has been the weakness of the team the past few years. Fix our pitching staff and get younger on offense and we'll be in really good shape to contend for a championship. With questionnable pitching including several injury problems the Yankees still have the longest running streak of making the playoffs (will end this year though).

Put together a more concrete pitching staff and change things up on the offensive side and we should see much improved results.

I mean how can you say we won't have a good chance in 09' if we had the following team:

Rotation: CC, Wang, Joba, Pettitte, Moose, Hughes
Bullpen: Mo, Melancon, Marte, Veras, Edwar, Bruney
Lineup: Damon, Jeter, Teixeira, ARod, Matsui, Nady, Cano, Posada, CF?

That rotation has 4 innings eating veterans which should provide stability. One young phenom and another young pitcher who has yet to realize his high ceiling.

JohnnyDamonfan
09-02-08, 04:04 PM
Thank You!

Investing in young superstars with relatively no injury history is a great way to spend money on improving your team now in the future.

The great thing about baseball is that we can continue to improve the team now without really hurting us in the long run. Sure by signing Type A's we lose out on a draft pick, but if you let them go you get that pick back. So this offseason we can sign CC and Tex and if we only get picks for Abreu we lose our 1st and 2nd and get a 1st and sandwich.

The Yankees problem lately has been who they've invested their money in especially in terms of pitching which in turn has been the weakness of the team the past few years. Fix our pitching staff and get younger on offense and we'll be in really good shape to contend for a championship. With questionnable pitching including several injury problems the Yankees still have the longest running streak of making the playoffs (will end this year though).

Put together a more concrete pitching staff and change things up on the offensive side and we should see much improved results.

I mean how can you say we won't have a good chance in 09' if we had the following team:

Rotation: CC, Wang, Joba, Pettitte, Moose, Hughes
Bullpen: Mo, Melancon, Marte, Veras, Edwar, Bruney
Lineup: Damon, Jeter, Teixeira, ARod, Matsui, Nady, Cano, Posada, CF?

That rotation has 4 innings eating veterans which should provide stability. One young phenom and another young pitcher who has yet to realize his high ceiling.

What about Kennedy? I would seriously consider not getting Pettitte back and possibly going with Kennedy. And if not that we could always see if we can get Garland I think he might be a good choice for our rotation I would go with this

Rotation:

CC

Wang

Joba

Hughes

Mussina

Garland/Kennedy/ Etc.

And of course we should at least try to gather up a package for Kemp.

CptCrunch
09-02-08, 04:06 PM
I'm looking for this:

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 04:13 PM
If we keep hearing CC go on and on about how he loves the WC and the NL I just don't know. Tex will hang largely on what LAA does in the post. IF they win it all, I think they def sign him.

JL25and3
09-02-08, 04:21 PM
I mean how can you say we won't have a good chance in 09' if we had the following team:

Rotation: CC, Wang, Joba, Pettitte, Moose, Hughes
Bullpen: Mo, Melancon, Marte, Veras, Edwar, Bruney
Lineup: Damon, Jeter, Teixeira, ARod, Matsui, Nady, Cano, Posada, CF?.


If we keep hearing CC go on and on about how he loves the WC and the NL I just don't know. Tex will hang largely on what LAA does in the post. IF they win it all, I think they def sign him.
IMHO, signing neither CC nor Tex is more likely than signing both. Without those two, next year's prospects look decidedly different - especially since there are already significant question marks at CF (which you noted) and C (which you didn't).

Krall
09-02-08, 04:55 PM
Why are half the fans so obsessed with A-Rod being the SS?

With Jeter as our SS we won how many rings?

With A-Rod a Yankee how many have we won? I hardly can believe moving him to SS would have netted us post season glory.

Putting A-Rod in that spot and alienating Jeter would have caused even more of a circus then we have now. Just get over it people Jeter is the SS for better or for worse and A-Rod is never taking over so long as Jeter can play. There are far more reasons for our lack of post season success then the SS position.

iWant27
09-02-08, 04:56 PM
Its the young pitchers who got hurt . The old ones are still playing .

b_joseph
09-02-08, 05:03 PM
And how have they worked out ? Horrible right ? Pavano faired much better.They worked out well because they threw money at a problem. Something that you continue to claim is the devil.

scooterfan
09-02-08, 05:44 PM
Its the young pitchers who got hurt . The old ones are still playing .

True - but I wouldn't bet the ranch on Moose and Pettitte throwing that many innings in 2009

The only 'lesson' from this year's pitching injuries is this - you never have enough pitching - especially young pitching.

Think about the depth chart going into 2008:
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Moose
Kennedy

Moving Joba in the rotation was always part of the plan. You also had the Eastern League pitcher of the year (Alan Horne), Jeff Marquez, and filler like Karstens, and Rasner. That's 5 of your top 9 pitchers who've been injured at various points of the season - and as you said, none of the old guys. Go figure.

Young pitchers - even if 'established' - will have setbacks.

Verlander has been awful in 2008, for example. I don't think the Tigers will give up on him just yet. Beckett was pretty bad in 2006.

What we have to do is to sign young-ish free agents to fill holes. The team desperately needs to get younger and more athletic, and we desperately need to buy time until position prospects like AJax are ready.

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 06:20 PM
Why are half the fans so obsessed with A-Rod being the SS?

With Jeter as our SS we won how many rings?

With A-Rod a Yankee how many have we won? I hardly can believe moving him to SS would have netted us post season glory.

Putting A-Rod in that spot and alienating Jeter would have caused even more of a circus then we have now. Just get over it people Jeter is the SS for better or for worse and A-Rod is never taking over so long as Jeter can play. There are far more reasons for our lack of post season success then the SS position.

Its not only that making A-Rod the SS in 2004 would have made us a better team, its the fact that Jeter COULD NOT be moved solely because of past accomplishments.

tonysh
09-02-08, 06:30 PM
Abe, great read, thank you. I've been lurking around this forum for a long time and I've always felt the same ever since we signed Giambi, Moose, traded for A-Rod etc.
How many freaging superstars does 1 team need? What's with the 250 mil/10 years contracts? Is a-Rod going to carry the team all by himself? Was there anyone else standing in line for his services at this price? Who were they competing against?
What was up with Jeter's contract which was equally insane at the time and this is coming from one of the biggest Jeter's fans.
What's up with signing Pavano's instead of Beckett ?
What's up with setting up lineup depending on the salary and not merits (Giambi batting clean up is the biggest joke of all baseball IMO)?
What's up with not being able to provide an adequate bullpen for so many years (really since Stanton/Nelson days)?
How hard is Cashman's job? I want to see him take a team like Pittsburg or Milwuakee. Where would he take them? I bet they'd be even worse than they are now (yes, it is possible).
Heck, give any bum off the street 200 mil to play with and the result wouldn't be much different. Epstein is so much better, it's not even funny.
Yes, Steinberners should share some blame. But I thought Cashman was given full autonomy couple of years ago? I just hope they don't bring him back because quiet frankly...he SUCKS!!!

yankeeman61
09-02-08, 06:48 PM
So does that mean you hate Damon as a DH too? Can I please get some reasoning as to why you like Damon as a Left Fielder and not as a DH?

Ummm...no I don't "hate" Damon as a DH. But I prefer him in LF over Matsui (range reasons alone) who would be my DH regularly. They can still plug Damon in as DH when he needs a day off from the OF.

So at the beginning of the season (if I had my way) the lineup would be this:

Damon LF
Jeter SS
Tex 1B
ARod 3B
Matsui DH
Nady RF
Kemp CF
Polanco 2B - you could give Meat a shot at starting, otherwise idk why else to keep him
IRod/Molina C - hopefully plug in Posada by June

Rotation

Sabathia
Wang
Joba
Pettitte
Moose

Yeah, I'd go to battle with this team

JL25and3
09-02-08, 06:49 PM
Someday someone's going to have to explain to me why it's worse to have better players.

tonysh
09-02-08, 06:57 PM
Someday someone's going to have to explain to me why it's worse to have better players.

Define 'better players'.

just-blaze
09-02-08, 07:35 PM
also was Theo a genius when they missed the playoffs 2 years ago?

People convieniently forget that time. The 2nd Boston massacre had occurred, Lester was just diagnosed with cancer, Papelbon was shut down for the rest of the year, Beckett was horrible, and Ortiz was out with heart problems? for a little while. Boston looked like they were cursed and dead for years to come.

Meanwhile, the Yanks surged into the playoffs.

Then the offseason came and Boston spent alot of money on Matsuzaka and Drew......

All it takes is one good offseason.......step back from the ledge.

The Q Bomb
09-02-08, 07:54 PM
... If Tex signs here maybe ARod could actually bat 3rd where he should be in the lineup... You mean bat Texiera clean-up? Yeah, let's see how well he does when he's brought in to replace Alex Rodriguez (even the .240 RISP Alex Rodriguez) as the clean-up batter of The New York Yankees. Bat him 5th. Next year the line-up should look something like this:


Damon
Jeter (I think at this point he would be better suited for the 8th or 9th spot, but I know that would be politically impossible.
Cano
A-Rod
Texiera (whom I do not think we have a chance of signing)
Nady (depending upon the kind of season Cano has in '09 - you could flip the 3 & 6 positions)
Abreu (if he stays)
Matsui
PosadaHaving Texiera bat clean-up would just create a whole new set of problems, IMO.

Brick Tamland
09-02-08, 08:10 PM
You mean bat Texiera clean-up? Yeah, let's see how well he does when he's brought in to replace Alex Rodriguez (even the .240 RISP Alex Rodriguez) as the clean-up batter of The New York Yankees. Bat him 5th. Next year the line-up should look something like this:


Damon
Jeter (I think at this point he would be better suited for the 8th or 9th spot, but I know that would be politically impossible.
Cano
A-Rod
Texiera (whom I do not think we have a chance of signing)
Nady (depending upon the kind of season Cano has in '09 - you could flip the 3 & 6 positions)
Abreu (if he stays)
Matsui
PosadaHaving Texiera bat clean-up would just create a whole new set of problems, IMO.

And why are you chosing to bat the best hitter in baseball 4th? You bat your best hitter 3rd so he comes up to the plate as often as possible, as well as giving him the opportunity to hit with RISP from the leadoff and #2 hitters likely getting on base.

Brick Tamland
09-02-08, 08:21 PM
Abe, great read, thank you. I've been lurking around this forum for a long time and I've always felt the same ever since we signed Giambi, Moose, traded for A-Rod etc.
How many freaging superstars does 1 team need? What's with the 250 mil/10 years contracts? Is a-Rod going to carry the team all by himself? Was there anyone else standing in line for his services at this price? Who were they competing against?
What was up with Jeter's contract which was equally insane at the time and this is coming from one of the biggest Jeter's fans.
What's up with signing Pavano's instead of Beckett ?
What's up with setting up lineup depending on the salary and not merits (Giambi batting clean up is the biggest joke of all baseball IMO)?
What's up with not being able to provide an adequate bullpen for so many years (really since Stanton/Nelson days)?
How hard is Cashman's job? I want to see him take a team like Pittsburg or Milwuakee. Where would he take them? I bet they'd be even worse than they are now (yes, it is possible).
Heck, give any bum off the street 200 mil to play with and the result wouldn't be much different. Epstein is so much better, it's not even funny.
Yes, Steinberners should share some blame. But I thought Cashman was given full autonomy couple of years ago? I just hope they don't bring him back because quiet frankly...he SUCKS!!!

Beckett was traded, not sigend as a FA, by the Red Sox. The Yankees never had the chance to sign him on the open market.

ARod typically hits clean up, not Giambi.

I dunno, Milkwuakee is doing pretty good this year, they're going to make the playoffs. Not exactly horrible.

I do agree with you though, this team should be built upon a foundation of role players who play solid defense and move well on the base path, with a few RBI and "superstar" type players sprinked in the mix. Too many names on this team with too little return on investment. I'd like to see a lot more "O'Neill's" and a lot less "I-Rods".

JL25and3
09-02-08, 08:34 PM
Beckett was traded, not sigend as a FA, by the Red Sox. The Yankees never had the chance to sign him on the open market.

ARod typically hits clean up, not Giambi.

I dunno, Milkwuakee is doing pretty good this year, they're going to make the playoffs. Not exactly horrible.

I do agree with you though, this team should be built upon a foundation of role players who play solid defense and move well on the base path, with a few RBI and "superstar" type players sprinked in the mix. Too many names on this team with too little return on investment. I'd like to see a lot more "O'Neill's" and a lot less "I-Rods".Pudge isn't a superstar.

There's a difference between a superstar and a brand name who used to be a star. I like superstars.

And I get tired of the "we need more O'Neills" argument. It's not like they got O'Neill and Bernie and built from there. They went through dozens of crappy players, rejects, minor leaguers, and whatever else they could get their hands on - through a series of awful, nearly unwatchable teams - and, finally, Bernie and O'Neill were the ones who survived.

So if you want to get more O'Neills, prepare to see a lot of guys like Danny Tartabull and Luis Polonia and Hensley Meulens and Matt Nokes and Mel Hall and Kevin Maas and Gerald Williams and...

Ynkcpt23
09-02-08, 09:16 PM
You mean bat Texiera clean-up? Yeah, let's see how well he does when he's brought in to replace Alex Rodriguez (even the .240 RISP Alex Rodriguez) as the clean-up batter of The New York Yankees. Bat him 5th. Next year the line-up should look something like this:


Damon
Jeter (I think at this point he would be better suited for the 8th or 9th spot, but I know that would be politically impossible.
Cano
A-Rod
Texiera (whom I do not think we have a chance of signing)
Nady (depending upon the kind of season Cano has in '09 - you could flip the 3 & 6 positions)
Abreu (if he stays)
Matsui
PosadaHaving Texiera bat clean-up would just create a whole new set of problems, IMO.

I disagree completely. Alex just needs to be in the position to drive in as many runs as possible. If he has Tex batting behind him (hypothetically), he has the protection afforded Manny when he was with Boston. There is no argument against this--he will have the best protection since Matsui hurt his knee. Or since Giambi hit like Giambi.

Better hypothetical lineup (IMO)

1. Damon
2. Cano
3. A-Rod
4.Teixeira
5. Nady
6. Matsui
7. Abreu (An assumption)
8. Jeter
9. Posada

Many interchangable parts here--I think Melky/Gardner on the bench, Molina, etc.

This way you have two guys with decent speed to turn the lineup over in Jeter and Abreu and the best power in the heart. I can hear the screams about where I put Cano, but I refuse to believe that he has hit a wall. I think he'll be outstanding next year.

Just a thought.

Abe Frohman
09-02-08, 09:53 PM
Would anyone be willing to trade Wang for a few cost - controlled young players like what the Twinkies did with Santana ?

Preferrably a CF and SS

Damon(MVP)
09-02-08, 10:20 PM
How about we just sign CC, Tex and KRod and that will be the end of any disappointment threads for a long long time.:)

primetime714
09-02-08, 11:29 PM
What about Kennedy? I would seriously consider not getting Pettitte back and possibly going with Kennedy. And if not that we could always see if we can get Garland I think he might be a good choice for our rotation I would go with this

Rotation:

CC

Wang

Joba

Hughes

Mussina

Garland/Kennedy/ Etc.

And of course we should at least try to gather up a package for Kemp.

What about Kennedy? The guy needs to prove himself before we factor him into our plans. If we learn nothing else from this year we should learn that we can't rely on unproven starters if we plan to compete. Plus as the #7 starter on the depth chart he should get a chance at some point.

Garland wouldn't be a bad option. He'll want a multi-year deal though where we can probably sign Pettitte to a 1-year deal at a discounted rate (1 year ~10M) and spin it as Pettitte taking one for the team so we can sign CC and Tex and he can pitch in the new stadium as we make a push for #27. If not though I'd certainly be ok with Garland on a reasonable deal. I like him more than Burnett who I unfortunately think we will sign and will be a disappointment either because of underperforming or more likely injuries.

As for Kemp what package do you think would even remotely entertain the Dodgers for Kemp? I think it would have to include Cano or at the very least Hughes. Kemp is a 5-tool player who can play all 3 OF spots and is only 23 years old. Personally I think the Dodgers would be smart to hold onto him. While his name has been floated around in rumors as recently as earlier this year I think the Dodgers are now very unlikely to deal him as he has performed at a very high level.

Brick Tamland
09-03-08, 12:25 AM
Pudge isn't a superstar.

There's a difference between a superstar and a brand name who used to be a star. I like superstars.

And I get tired of the "we need more O'Neills" argument. It's not like they got O'Neill and Bernie and built from there. They went through dozens of crappy players, rejects, minor leaguers, and whatever else they could get their hands on - through a series of awful, nearly unwatchable teams - and, finally, Bernie and O'Neill were the ones who survived.

So if you want to get more O'Neills, prepare to see a lot of guys like Danny Tartabull and Luis Polonia and Hensley Meulens and Matt Nokes and Mel Hall and Kevin Maas and Gerald Williams and...

That would be preferable to a lineup of over-paid, under-performing "superstars". You caught me. I-Rod is the only "superstar" on this team I'd want to cast aside (not ARod, Jeter, Cano, Abreu, Posada, or Giambi...maybe Giambi). My point is I want to see the Yankees bring in players who can get on base, play good defense, and bring some 'intangibles' to the table. IMO, it's what this team is lacking. Call it soul, call it desire, call it heart. You don't need 9 guys hitting .300 to make the playoffs. You need 9 guys who are giving it their all and getting hits in the clutch. Just my opinion. Probably why I'm not a MLB GM. But hey, we're all entitled to our own opinions right?

JohnnyDamonfan
09-03-08, 05:44 AM
What about Kennedy? The guy needs to prove himself before we factor him into our plans. If we learn nothing else from this year we should learn that we can't rely on unproven starters if we plan to compete. Plus as the #7 starter on the depth chart he should get a chance at some point.

Garland wouldn't be a bad option. He'll want a multi-year deal though where we can probably sign Pettitte to a 1-year deal at a discounted rate (1 year ~10M) and spin it as Pettitte taking one for the team so we can sign CC and Tex and he can pitch in the new stadium as we make a push for #27. If not though I'd certainly be ok with Garland on a reasonable deal. I like him more than Burnett who I unfortunately think we will sign and will be a disappointment either because of underperforming or more likely injuries.

As for Kemp what package do you think would even remotely entertain the Dodgers for Kemp? I think it would have to include Cano or at the very least Hughes. Kemp is a 5-tool player who can play all 3 OF spots and is only 23 years old. Personally I think the Dodgers would be smart to hold onto him. While his name has been floated around in rumors as recently as earlier this year I think the Dodgers are now very unlikely to deal him as he has performed at a very high level.

I'd be ok with Cano. Hell, I think I'd be ok with Hughes too. Sure, I would sit around and be angry for a while but I'd get over it. I don't really have a package that I think could entertain them. But, I think we could get him Joba and Jackson are Off limits but everyone else I'd be ok with it.

I don't know about Burnett being an underperformer. But, he is definately a pitcher we don't need. CC and Tex just go with that. Pettitte I guess I just don't know about because he got a little bit worse this year and that sorta bothers me. As for Kemp I am not holding my expectations to high. I have had my heart broken to many times where I think we'd sign someone only to go to a different team. But I still believe we can get Kemp.

ajra21
09-03-08, 07:05 AM
I've been thinking about this all day and i came to the conclusion that this organization as a whole,
is SO done for, its just gut - wrenching as a fan to have to live through this. Some of you maybe
haven't realized it yet, but we won't be seeing # 27 for a long while. Just watch this offseason for
proof of what im saying. After all of the money Cashman has thrown away at complete and utter
garbage, and now that he's finally being given the chance to clean house, here come the next
batch of mega contracts that more than likely wont net the return we're all expecting, a WS ring.

This organization needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. This isn't the circus ... this is
a Baseball team. What i mean by that is we need to get away from the Superstars and get players
in here that are going to get the job done. Period. Yeah i know, Superstars sell tickets, and they
need that with the NYS looming, but damn ... do you really want to want to win or is this some gimmick ???
Cause this All - Star at every position crap isn't going to cut it anymore. But were stuck because
we HAVE to sign superstars because we HAVE to sellout every game.

The game of baseball is changing. You see our old, tired ass bunch of overpaid losers march into
cities like Pittsburgh and KC, Baltimore, ummm friggin TAMPA and get their brains beaten in because
Youth and chemistry are the name of the game now and we lack both. You may say, well where are
PP and KC in the standings... yeah they stink but they sure do a helluva good job making us look bad.
Running circles around our old bunch. And look at Tampa ... o man. no one in their lineup is batting
over .300 yet theyre in 1st place and on their way to the Post, maybe even a WS with all the mojo
they got goin on over there. we have like 6 .300 hitters and they'll all be playing golf in october...
PATHETIC.

Handing out multi - million dollar contracts to old ass players. And letting the young ones go.
Carlos Pena and Dioner Navarro were both Yankees.Pettitte, Clemens, Posada ... in a few years
Jeter will get his too when his production wont even equal a 1/4 of what they'll pay him. we're
always talking about these cornerstones of our team, the Jeters and Posadas and what not.
Go look at the Bosox. If you're not fitting in well with the team or not getting you're job done,
Gone, finished ... thanks for your services. Clemens, Pedro, Lowe, Manny, Millar, Nixon - all
gone and the ball kept rolling without them. Even poor Varitek - THE CAPTAIN OF THE TEAM is
crazy if he thinks hes getting some monster contract in the offseason. If he gets snooty he'll be
gone too... and the ball will keep rolling... and when it looks like the ball just cant roll anymore the
way its setup, they take a few steps back to make some giant leaps forward, see 2006. Now, i am
not a Redsox fan by any stretch of the imagination: But i give props when they're due and right now,
that team is making Theo and the organization as a whole look like the best and smartest by far, in
all of baseball. I mean EVERYTHING that man does for that team turns out well. Jesus ! ! !

The dude just has the pulse of his team and knows exactly the kinds of players that will perform for him.
The Pedroias, millars, muellers, bellhorns, gritty, gutsy, ballsy players that will run through a wall for
their team and to win. This falling in permanent love with what a player has done in the past needs to end
if we're to strike fear into teams again ... right now they're ROTFL at us.

for instance: Not putting A-Rod at SS when he first got here was an organizational mistake.
I mean the dude was hands-down the best SS in the entire MLB. Jeter has never been nor will
ever be half the SS A-Rod was but nooooo ... Jeter cannot be moved from SS like its etched in
stone or something. They put Jeter before the team in that instance and now theyre paying for
it and will continue to pay mass amounts of money for a subpar SS who cant field the position
anymore till hes 40 and decides to retire after the massive contract extension he'll get... because hes Jeter.
Im sorry but i'd rather give the team its best chance to win than not hurt Derek Jeters feelings.

Im sick of this horses*** ... im sick of watching everyone elses young players make our old players
look ummm ... old and then go hi - fiving eachother in the dugout cause they just whooped the 200
mil dollar yankees. This team needs an overhaul. complete makeover. It starts this offseason. Signing
CC and Tex aint gonna get it done. Sorry this is so long but im just pissed and frustrated and yeah i
typed regular cause i really want you to listen.

why doesn't you text go all the way across the page?

a2ruYankee
09-03-08, 11:02 AM
Cashman will not be fired.


So many things happened this year.


Hughes and Kennedy didnt get a win between them
Wang gets hurt running bases in interleague game
Jaba transition / Jaba hurt
Players NOT performing is NOT on Cashman

The Yankees future is VERY bright if you ask me.

All of the bullet points listed above and we STILL had a chance(maybe not now) to make a move late in year.

Props to Girardi.

Krall
09-03-08, 11:19 AM
Its not only that making A-Rod the SS in 2004 would have made us a better team, its the fact that Jeter COULD NOT be moved solely because of past accomplishments.

The point is that with either guy at SS the post season outcome would have been the same. And I count A-Rod among the very problems you point out, throwing money at big superstars. We would have been just fine with keeping Soriano.

YASS
09-03-08, 12:13 PM
People convieniently forget that time. The 2nd Boston massacre had occurred, Lester was just diagnosed with cancer, Papelbon was shut down for the rest of the year, Beckett was horrible, and Ortiz was out with heart problems? for a little while. Boston looked like they were cursed and dead for years to come.

Meanwhile, the Yanks surged into the playoffs.

Then the offseason came and Boston spent alot of money on Matsuzaka and Drew......

All it takes is one good offseason.......step back from the ledge.
You forgot Lugo, who was also part of the signing spree prior to '07.

The Matsuzaka and Drew signings weren't the difference makers, either. Matsuzaka was better than league average, but not by a wide margin (he was hugely outperformed by the much cheaper Gil Meche -- who the Sox should have gone after), and Drew was a big disappointment almost the entire season.

The difference was made by huge rebound years on the part of Beckett, Lowell, and Lester, by Pedroia giving good production as the 2B (replacing the awful Mark Loretta), by Tim Wakefield's great first half, and by excellent bullpen work.

The free agent signings (other than Okajima) were much more a hindrance than a help in '07.

SINCE77 2
09-03-08, 01:24 PM
The point is that with either guy at SS the post season outcome would have been the same. And I count A-Rod among the very problems you point out, throwing money at big superstars. We would have been just fine with keeping Soriano.




I agree regarding Soriano. I thought he was a tremendous player for us who was every bit as lethal (if not more so ) as Arod with the bat and on the basepaths.

JL25and3
09-03-08, 01:44 PM
[/b]




I agree regarding Soriano. I thought he was a tremendous player for us who was every bit as lethal (if not more so ) as Arod with the bat and on the basepaths.You must have been watching a different Alfonso Soriano than I was. He was a very talented ballplayer, but not in Rodriguez's league.

Soriano's best single-season OPS+ is 135; second-best is 129. Alex Rodriguez's career OPS+ is 148. Over the last 11 seasons, his lowest is 131. Alex does it as a third baseman, Soriano as a left fielder.

Don't tell me Soriano is clutch. Don't even try.

Soriano does steal more bases, but that's the only thing he does better. Plus, he's got an absurd 8-year contract. And he's only six months younger than Rodriguez.

SINCE77 2
09-03-08, 02:14 PM
You must have been watching a different Alfonso Soriano than I was. He was a very talented ballplayer, but not in Rodriguez's league.

Soriano's best single-season OPS+ is 135; second-best is 129. Alex Rodriguez's career OPS+ is 148. Over the last 11 seasons, his lowest is 131. Alex does it as a third baseman, Soriano as a left fielder.

Don't tell me Soriano is clutch. Don't even try.

Soriano does steal more bases, but that's the only thing he does better. Plus, he's got an absurd 8-year contract. And he's only six months younger than Rodriguez.



The guy I watched was nearly a 40/40 guy for 2 years as a Yankee playing half of his games in YS. The guy I watched was under Yankee control for 2-3 more years and played 2B for us. He also drove in 90+ runs three years in a row. Call it what you want, but you gotta be doing something right to knock in that many runs from the leadoff spot. I'm not anti-Arod, but unlike many others, I appreciated what the Yankees put on the field long before Arod arrived on the seen. BTW, iirc, Sori in a Yankee uniform hurt the Rangers and Seattle a lot more than Mr. OPS+148 ever hurt the Yankees.

Abe Frohman
09-03-08, 10:34 PM
Soriano Is a GREAT ball player but hes nowhere near A-Rods league.



A - Rod - Pujols

...

Everyone else

dont_ya_know24
09-03-08, 11:11 PM
soriano for a-rod was a great trade, no question about it.

he strikes out way too much and doesn't get on base enough, and could very well be older than he says he is.

as for the rotation, giving hughes the 5th spot wouldn't be a wise decision. he needs his innings, and he needs them in a low stress environment to sort out all his issues. also having two guys in the rotation with inning limits isn't something the yankees want to repeat.

CC- it really is a necessity
wang
mussina
pettitte and or garland
FA- maybe burnett (i doubt they sign both CC and him, but if they're healthy it would be great), pavano ect ect.

joba will enter when he's ready.

JL25and3
09-04-08, 06:46 AM
he strikes out way too much and doesn't get on base enough, and could very well be older than he says he is.His age was already changed once. He's older than he used to say he was - three years, wasn't it? - but this is probably his real age.

Abe Frohman
09-08-08, 11:34 PM
This team has looked bad basically all year but the Angels can REALLY make this

team look bad. We probably look worse matched up against the Angels than any

other 3 teams combined. So now i think ive figured it out : When the Yankees stop

getting owned by the friggin Anaheim Angels, they'll be for real again. Until then,

They'll be posers. Pretenders, Losers.

YankeeFan66
09-10-08, 04:56 PM
The more & more I read & think about it, Cashman needs to go. He tried its not working. I agree 100% with not giving out the "mega contracts" It doesnt work like that.

I agree...Cashman has been living off the laurels of the 196-2000 teams long enough, those teams were put together by Stick Michaels.... Cashman has slowly brought this team down to where we were in ther 80's and early 90's.....

Hobbes40
09-11-08, 11:04 AM
People convieniently forget that time. The 2nd Boston massacre had occurred, Lester was just diagnosed with cancer, Papelbon was shut down for the rest of the year, Beckett was horrible, and Ortiz was out with heart problems? for a little while. Boston looked like they were cursed and dead for years to come.

Meanwhile, the Yanks surged into the playoffs.

Then the offseason came and Boston spent alot of money on Matsuzaka and Drew......

All it takes is one good offseason.......step back from the ledge.

To be fair, those FA signings didn't help that at all in 2007...Matsuzaka was about average and Drew was terrible.

But you're right, anyone who wants to gut the whole team and draft a new one also wants to be the Oakland A's...you can't do that if you want to be a perennial contender. Anyway, the real question is that if we do sign CC/Tex, how much of a difference do they make? We lost about 200 runs this year, does Tex alone help bring them back? One huge difference between Boston and us is that their position prospects have all more or less played very well this year, and ours haven't. (The other one is that our two best pitchers got hurt :( )

Also, I can't believe you guys are posting lineups with Cano that high up in the order. Even when Cano is playing the way he should be, he's not a high OBP player...the one time he had a high OBP was when he hit .340. Certainly he could hit there when he hits his prime, which could be next season. But you don't start him off there, especially considering that some players seem to attribute his bad season to complacency (don't know if this has any merit).

MaximMan121
09-11-08, 01:55 PM
[/b]




I agree regarding Soriano. I thought he was a tremendous player for us who was every bit as lethal (if not more so ) as Arod with the bat and on the basepaths.

This will (god willing) be the most wrongheaded statement I read in a long, long time.

Or at least until Sarah Palin speaks again.