PDA

View Full Version : How does Nick walk so much?



23Mattingly4ever
07-13-01, 10:54 PM
I mean does this guy ever swing the bat? Jesus, are they throwing way out of thezone? is he bribing umps? but damn he walks a hell of a lot. he is up there with bonds and big mac in walk ratio's

brbyank
07-13-01, 11:06 PM
He has a great eye at the plate.When he starts pounding the hitter's pitches he will be called to the big leagues.

wileedog
07-14-01, 11:41 AM
Actually its pretty common for minor league pitchers to pitch around the real 'top' prospects like NJ. Better he walks to 1B than he smacks a 2 run homer on you.

That will probably continue until Henson, Rivera and Estella really establish themselves as power threats around Nick.

No knock on Nick, he does have a good eye and excellent patience, but he gets a little help...

Elfdood
07-14-01, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by wileedog
No knock on Nick, he does have a good eye and excellent patience, but he gets a little help... Alfonso Soriano never walked all that much in AAA. Juan Rivera was hitting .320 with 14 homers in AA, and he has fifteen walks this year. Are those guys not "big" enough?

Nick Johnson walks. You could put him third in the Cleveland Indians' lineup and he would walk 80 times a year. It's just something he does. It's a skill, and it's one that Nick Johnson, like Jim Thome or Jorge Posada, has more or less mastered.

You're right, he probably wouldn't have 52 walks in a stronger lineup, but he would probably have a higher batting average. Getting on base is Johnson's primary skill, and he'll do it one way or another. And it's my feeling that he'll always be among the league leaders in walks, no matter what league he's in. Even if a fully developed Drew Henson is hitting behind him.

KDream
07-14-01, 03:03 PM
I agree with Elfdood.
IMHO, drawing walks is a part of getting on base and should not be separated from other aspects of hitting. What makes hitters like Bernie, Jorge, Thome, Alomar, Chipper Jones, Giambi, Helton, Bonds, Sosa (this season) and Manny so dangerous is that they can get on base via all venues: if pitchers don't have control or pitch around these guys, they will get on base by base on balls; if pitchers challenge them, those great hitters will make contact and hit the balls out of the park.
However, for hitters like Nomar (50-60 BBs a season) and Vlad, plate patience is not among their acquired skills. But they attack and connect with all kinds of pitches. They still get on base and get the job done. If a hitter can hit .400 and drive the ball consistently, I wouldn't mind get a .400 OBP that way either. The bottom line is that type of hitters is pretty rare.

wileedog
07-15-01, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Elfdood
You're right, he probably wouldn't have 52 walks in a stronger lineup, but he would probably have a higher batting average. Getting on base is Johnson's primary skill, and he'll do it one way or another. And it's my feeling that he'll always be among the league leaders in walks, no matter what league he's in. Even if a fully developed Drew Henson is hitting behind him.

No argument here. In fact I think NJ's K total is probably a bit high because lets face it - when you get up you want to HIT, not walk. That's what I think the problem is with guys like Rivera and Sori - they swing at anything close, and when you have their kind of talent you can get away with it in the minors. Unfortunately, though, when you do get to the bigs like Sori this season, you have no sense of the strike zone, don't have the patience to wait for 'your' pitch, and the pitching up here is too good to get away with hacking. (unless you're Vlad)

The fact that NJ has such a good sense of the zone already, and more importantly the patience to wait for his pitch is terrific - it usually takes a few years in the majors to learn that. However, I still stand by my statement that unless the pitcher in AAA is really good, or has no choice, they don't regularly challenge NJ. Kudos to him for taking what is given.

Hopefully someday he'll strike that kind of fear and respect into major league pitchers too.

Bub
07-17-01, 04:01 PM
Excellent thread. I've wondered some about this. Is it possible that some hitters have no fear hitting behind in the count? Take Wade Boggs for example - he didn't mind a bit hitting 0-2, and was often behind in the count. However, there were plenty of times he would be ahead 2-0 or 3-1 because he took a few pitches and got the call. A lot of players want 3 good swings, but others are Boggs-like, names like Barry Bonds, Jack Clark, Rickey Henderson, John Olerud, Eric Davis come to mind.

Gator
07-23-01, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Elfdood
You're right, he probably wouldn't have 52 walks in a stronger lineup, but he would probably have a higher batting average.

Just to illustrate the strength (or lack thereof), of Columbus' lineup - Darren Bragg is the cleanup hitter, and Clay Bellinger is an everyday player. :)

se7ensamadhi
07-23-01, 09:19 PM
Hey, watch out for Clay Bellinger, he hit his first home run tonight in probably 2 years.

IrishDancer
07-23-01, 09:31 PM
Well, if he is getting a lot of walks (as opposed to K's) I sure won't complain! As I recall, a walk doesn't affect your batting average???

se7ensamadhi
07-23-01, 11:27 PM
Nick does have 81 strikeouts, but I think people can deal with that if he walks 60 times and gets hit by 13 pitches.

As long as the HBP's don't break his arms or kneecaps, they still count for getting on base.