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YankeeStripes
08-03-08, 07:35 PM
What's it going to look like?

In my opinion, Matsui should be the DH next year. We should also try and trade Damon, as he breaks down more and more every year. I do want Nady back, though...in RF.

b_joseph
08-03-08, 07:42 PM
Manny - Melky until Jackson - Nady

Manny in '09 baby!!!

hatfieldms
08-03-08, 07:43 PM
Nady, melky(unless they can find a better option, not Gardner), Abreu. I just dont get why anyone would want Abreu out of here

montrealer
08-03-08, 07:47 PM
I`ll wait till 2008 is over before I express my opinion......

ajra21
08-03-08, 07:56 PM
I`ll wait till 2008 is over before I express my opinion......

good call.

wang+cano=future
08-03-08, 08:10 PM
Realistically it will be Damon - Melky - Nady.

randy06
08-03-08, 08:13 PM
why does everyone think bobby is gonna be gone

Yankees1962
08-03-08, 08:16 PM
why does everyone think bobby is gonna be gone
Unless they think Damon can play CF or they can trade him, I don't see Abreu back.

BBombers85
08-03-08, 08:16 PM
I don't understand all the hate Johnny Damon always gets. He's an integral part of this team. It can probably be even statistically proven how much of an effect he has on wins and losses.

groundhoggator
08-03-08, 08:16 PM
why does everyone think bobby is gonna be gone

Because his greatest worth is the 2 draft picks we'll pick up... Don't let this recent hot streak fool you into how good he is.

Bottom line is we need a RF who can play min - avg defense and either a) hit 25+ HR or b) hit .325 + and have an OPS > .750... of which Abreu provides neither.

Yankees1962
08-03-08, 08:17 PM
Manny - Melky until Jackson - Nady

Manny in '09 baby!!!
Manny will never wear a Yankee uniform.

boday
08-03-08, 08:18 PM
Why Bobby gone? Age, crappy defense, (how he can be bad defensively with his speed and arm, I dunno) 16 mil salary, 2 count em 2 draft picks.

Yankees1962
08-03-08, 08:20 PM
Because his greatest worth is the 2 draft picks we'll pick up... Don't let this recent hot streak fool you into how good he is.

Bottom line is we need a RF who can play min - avg defense and either a) hit 25+ HR or b) hit .325 + and have an OPS > .750... of which Abreu provides neither.
He certainly does provide the latter and would think of bringing him back depending on the circumstances and other outfielders that maybe available through trades.

JeffWeaverFan
08-03-08, 08:20 PM
why does everyone think bobby is gonna be gone
Because, despite his recent hot streak, he seems to be on the decline. Given that he'll be 35 next year and will most likely demand a 3 year contract, it would probably be best to let him go. He's no longer the .400/.500 guy you would be paying for.

As for Manny, really? Do we honestly need to give a 37 year old a 4 year/$80M+ contract whose best position is DH? A player that has clearly declined (although he's still a great hitter), has shown time and time again that he will take days off whenenver he feels like it, be it by playing and not trying or just not playing, and now requests days off against top pitchers. The Manny you will get from 2009-2012 is not the Manny we have seen for the last 10 years. It's more like the Manny of 2007 and probably worse than that as he continues to age.

JeterForPresident
08-03-08, 08:20 PM
I don't understand all the hate Johnny Damon always gets. He's an integral part of this team. It can probably be even statistically proven how much of an effect he has on wins and losses.

I agree, he is having a fine season actually. He went on the DL not because he broke down but because he tried to make a great play up against the wall. Anybody young or old can be hurt making that play.

boday
08-03-08, 08:22 PM
I don't understand all the hate Johnny Damon always gets. He's an integral part of this team. It can probably be even statistically proven how much of an effect he has on wins and losses.

Damon has been a standup guy this year and is playing his best baseball in years. And I've hated his signing instead of Beltran. Now he's won me over. But he's getting old man. From here on in you can't expect him to stay healthy.

ebas
08-03-08, 08:22 PM
What's it going to look like?

In my opinion, Matsui should be the DH next year. We should also try and trade Damon, as he breaks down more and more every year. I do want Nady back, though...in RF.

In the grand scheme of things, Damon has been fairly healthy this year and has been playing great. I say we let him finish out his contract here with the Yanks. I agree that Matsui should be the full time DH and that Nady should take over right field. Nady is in his prime and it looks like he's finally learned to consistently hit righthanders this year and he should be a better player than Abreu over the next 3 years.

That gives us Damon/Melky/Nady.

I think this team can deal with Melky for 1 more year and hopefully he will improve. AJ could be ready by mid-season next year. If not, then in 2010. I don't think we need to go shopping for a center fielder just yet.

LIYanks
08-03-08, 08:23 PM
Manny will never wear a Yankee uniform.

I remember saying that very same thing to myself about certain Sox pitcher. ;)

But I do think that Manny is in the twilight of his career. :D

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:24 PM
Bottom line is we need a RF who can play min - avg defense and either a) hit 25+ HR or b) hit .325 + and have an OPS > .750... of which Abreu provides neither.

Abreu has a career OPS of .904. His current OPS this season is .846. He's also 10 homers away from 25. His defense is average at best with a solid arm. Sounds like he pretty much is doing what you'd want.

JeffWeaverFan
08-03-08, 08:25 PM
My guess is the team will have Damon, Melky, and Nady as the OFers with Matsui DHing. Then I'm going to guess that Teixeira is signed, the rest of the IF is obvious and Posada is the catcher. Of course, if things aren't going well in Posada's rehab, they may have him play 1B and do something about the catching position.

Brijd10
08-03-08, 08:26 PM
Trade Matsui, resign Abreu for one or two years.

Have Damon, Abreu, and Nady rotate the two corner outfield spots with Damon only DHing or playing left while Abreu either DH's or plays right. If Melky doesn't hit have Damon play some Center. Not sure if Jackson will be ready next year but he could be part of the mix at some point as well.

R.V.47
08-03-08, 08:26 PM
Damon has been a standup guy this year and is playing his best baseball in years. And I've hated his signing instead of Beltran. Now he's won me over. But he's getting old man. From here on in you can't expect him to stay healthy.

I dont understand why everyone thinks we missed out on some huge opportunity by not signing Beltran. He has by almost every measure underperformed to the expectations of his contract with the Mets who overpaid big time because Beltran was coming off one of the best post season hitting performances in recent memory. He has never been a 300 hitter, his power has dropped off lately except for one good season with the Mets and he doesnt steal as many bases as he used too. I think the yanks have gotten much more out of Damons contract than the Mets have gotten out of Beltrans and Damons was shorter and IMO he was a better fit for our needs as we needed a true leadoff guy.

Yankees1962
08-03-08, 08:27 PM
Abreu has a career OPS of .904. His current OPS this season is .846. He's also 10 homers away from 25. His defense is average at best with a solid arm. Sounds like he pretty much is doing what you'd want.
Abreu gets a lot of crap because of his fear of outfield walls, but he's a very solid player that knows how to play the game.

BxBomber44
08-03-08, 08:27 PM
as long as Nady is here I'm fine w/ whatever at this point.

Yankees1962
08-03-08, 08:28 PM
Trade Matsui, resign Abreu for one or two years.

Have Damon, Abreu, and Nady rotate the two corner outfield spots with Damon only DHing or playing left while Abreu either DH's or plays right. If Melky doesn't hit have Damon play some Center. Not sure if Jackson will be ready next year but he could be part of the mix at some point as well.
Matsui has reduced trade value with two bad knees now which means he can't play the outfield on a regular basis.

LIYanks
08-03-08, 08:29 PM
I like how Damon plays but I just don't think that he can sustain the grinding of 162-game season. Keep Damon but don't play him everyday.

Damon should be our 4th OF and Melky should be playing outfield for someone else.

I wonder what a change of scenery would do for Ellsbury and Melky?

YanksFan1992
08-03-08, 08:30 PM
LF: Nady
CF: Cabrera/Gardner
RF: Abreu
DH: Damon (Teixeira at first)

wang+cano=future
08-03-08, 08:32 PM
My guess is the team will have Damon, Melky, and Nady as the OFers with Matsui DHing. Then I'm going to guess that Teixeira is signed, the rest of the IF is obvious and Posada is the catcher. Of course, if things aren't going well in Posada's rehab, they may have him play 1B and do something about the catching position.

Yeah I agree that is how the outfield and DH will shake out. I just hope they can get Tex.

ebas
08-03-08, 08:32 PM
I dont understand why everyone thinks we missed out on some huge opportunity by not signing Beltran. He has by almost every measure underperformed to the expectations of his contract with the Mets who overpaid big time because Beltran was coming off one of the best post season hitting performances in recent memory. He has never been a 300 hitter, his power has dropped off lately except for one good season with the Mets and he doesnt steal as many bases as he used too. I think the yanks have gotten much more out of Damons contract than the Mets have gotten out of Beltrans and Damons was shorter and IMO he was a better fit for our needs as we needed a true leadoff guy.

QFT. I'm glad we didn't get Beltran. He was really only a great player duting that one post season run. Otherwise he's just been solid to good. Definitely not worth what he's being paid.

themgmt
08-03-08, 08:33 PM
LF Gardner
CF Melky
RF Christian

I Heart Jeter
08-03-08, 08:33 PM
I'd love to see someone other than Melky play CF. Then again it depends what the rest of the offense looks like. I guess we can afford to have a .250 10-homerun power #9 hitter, even if he is the center fielder

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:34 PM
I dont understand why everyone thinks we missed out on some huge opportunity by not signing Beltran. He has by almost every measure underperformed to the expectations of his contract with the Mets who overpaid big time because Beltran was coming off one of the best post season hitting performances in recent memory. He has never been a 300 hitter, his power has dropped off lately except for one good season with the Mets and he doesnt steal as many bases as he used too. I think the yanks have gotten much more out of Damons contract than the Mets have gotten out of Beltrans and Damons was shorter and IMO he was a better fit for our needs as we needed a true leadoff guy.

You make a valid point, but the way I see it Beltran has only had one truly disappointing season so far with the Mets, though they'd certainly like him to pick it up a bit to finish off this year. Considering that the Yanks could've had Beltran at a discount, I think he would've done fine in the Bronx too. Not to mention, these signings didn't occur at the same time. Bernie had a lot to do with why they didn't get Beltran. Beltran is a terrific CF with a great arm, and he's been pretty amazing in the postseason. I was OK with the Damon signing, but given the choice, I would've taken Beltran.

themgmt
08-03-08, 08:35 PM
Matsui DH
Nady LF
Damon CF
Abreu RF

Christian/Gardner/Melky 4th OF

Christian said today that he used to play the infield, he can really earn himself a spot on the team next year if he can be a utility IF/OF with Betemit.

Godzilllllla
08-03-08, 08:36 PM
are you guys kidding me? you're saying you'd RATHER have melky then beltran? i know his stats with the mets haven't nearly lived up to what he would have signed for with the Yanks, but who knows how he would have done with the Yankees? keep in mind he really wanted to play for us. the passing up on Beltran, along with not trading for Santana are both moves that look really bad right now.

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:38 PM
are you guys kidding me? you're saying you'd RATHER have melky then beltran? i know his stats with the mets haven't nearly lived up to what he would have signed for with the Yanks, but who knows how he would have done with the Yankees? keep in mind he really wanted to play for us. the passing up on Beltran, along with not trading for Santana are both moves that look really bad right now.

I wouldn't bring Santana into this just yet, that's a different story. I still think Hughes will bounce back and signing Sabathia will be key.

Yankees1962
08-03-08, 08:38 PM
I think Nady will fill one of the corner positions for the next 5-6 years. If Austin Jackson is the long-term solution to CF then Cashman is going to have to find such a solution for the other corner spot unless he thinks Abreu can be a stopgap for another 3 years. IMO, I think he'll be looking for some young outfielder with a lot of offensive potential that is in his mid-20s that he might trade some of his excess pitching for this offseason.

Godzilllllla
08-03-08, 08:39 PM
agreed, bigjf

Yankee Steve
08-03-08, 08:40 PM
The sooner the Yanks can trade Gardner, the better. He is not a great outfielder, has an inferior arm and cannot hit a lick. He certainly can run, but that won't be enough. Melky needs to go, but they need AJax to be ready or throw Nady into CF with Damon in LF. Abreu is too good a hitter and baserunner (ignoring today) to just let him go for 2 draft picks. I don't know who will be playing 1st base, but I don't think it will be Texeira. I think the Angels are going to sign him. Not crazy about having Posada there, but that might be our only choice if his shoulder doesn't come back.

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:41 PM
I think Nady will fill one of the corner positions for the next 5-6 years. If Austin Jackson is the long-term solution to CF then Cashman is going to have to find such a solution for the other corner spot unless he thinks Abreu can be a stopgap for another 3 years. IMO, I think he'll be looking for some young outfielder with a lot of offensive potential that is in his mid-20s that he might trade some of his excess pitching for this offseason.

Or he could sign Adam Dunn for no prospects. I know he's not good on defense, but he's a bat you can plug right into the middle of the lineup, replacing Giambi, and he won't cost top dollar because GMs like Ricciardi are foolishly down on him.

YanksFan1992
08-03-08, 08:41 PM
are you guys kidding me? you're saying you'd RATHER have melky then beltran? i know his stats with the mets haven't nearly lived up to what he would have signed for with the Yanks, but who knows how he would have done with the Yankees? keep in mind he really wanted to play for us. the passing up on Beltran, along with not trading for Santana are both moves that look really bad right now.

First of all, Beltran isn't a free agent so I don't know how you plan on getting him.

Second, I'd like to know why the Santana move is looking really bad right now.

Yankee Steve
08-03-08, 08:43 PM
The argument was Damon or Beltran. No one is going to say they would rather have Melky than either one of them - at least no one in their right mind.

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:44 PM
The sooner the Yanks can trade Gardner, the better. He is not a great outfielder, has an inferior arm and cannot hit a lick. He certainly can run, but that won't be enough. Melky needs to go, but they need AJax to be ready or throw Nady into CF with Damon in LF. Abreu is too good a hitter and baserunner (ignoring today) to just let him go for 2 draft picks. I don't know who will be playing 1st base, but I don't think it will be Texeira. I think the Angels are going to sign him. Not crazy about having Posada there, but that might be our only choice if his shoulder doesn't come back.

I'm not ready to give up on Gardner yet. I think there are some clear adjustments with his swing that he should be able to make, namely using his legs to drive the ball. I don't quite see where his arm is inferior. It seemed fine to me from what I saw. He has GREAT speed, works the count, shoots for high OBP. If he can make the adjustments with his swing, he's a 4-tool player in my eyes. I think he has the potential to have Ichiro-like skill.

But I do agree that it's not a slam dunk that the Yanks will get Teixeira, especially if he wants 10 years.

TheBamTino24
08-03-08, 08:45 PM
Unless something drastically changes, I think you'll see the same thing as this year until Austin Jackson is ready to be promoted.

Godzilllllla
08-03-08, 08:46 PM
First of all, Beltran isn't a free agent so I don't know how you plan on getting him.

Second, I'd like to know why the Santana move is looking really bad right now.

"first of all" i was obviously talking about when beltran WAS a free agent and they let him sign elsewhere.

"second" because the Yankees starting pitching this season could have really used another Anchor like santana. the reason they didn't trade for Santana was cuz they were counting on Hughes and Kennedy, and they didn't want to give up Melky also. All 3 have been terrible this year. it's obviously not too late for Hughes and Ian, though, i think they still have a good future with NY.

wang+cano=future
08-03-08, 08:47 PM
Cash will take the picks for Abreu instead shelling out a 4-5 year deal at around $15 million per season. They have Nady for RF, Damon for LF and Melky (with Action on the doorstep) in CF next year.

R.V.47
08-03-08, 08:48 PM
The sooner the Yanks can trade Gardner, the better. He is not a great outfielder, has an inferior arm and cannot hit a lick. He certainly can run, but that won't be enough. Melky needs to go, but they need AJax to be ready or throw Nady into CF with Damon in LF. Abreu is too good a hitter and baserunner (ignoring today) to just let him go for 2 draft picks. I don't know who will be playing 1st base, but I don't think it will be Texeira. I think the Angels are going to sign him. Not crazy about having Posada there, but that might be our only choice if his shoulder doesn't come back.

Its tough to measure Gardners value right now. He isnt a player that would bring back a lot of value in a trade but at the same time he is not ready to be a starting outfielder. I think he can still help us a lot though as a 4th outfielder and pinch runner at least in the near future. Along the way who knows, he might become an everyday player, the skill set is definitly there for him to do it he just needs to learn how to hit big league pitching a little better.

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:48 PM
"first of all" i was obviously talking about when beltran WAS a free agent and they let him sign elsewhere.

"second" because the Yankees starting pitching this season could have really used another Anchor like santana. the reason they didn't trade for Santana was cuz they were counting on Hughes and Kennedy, and they didn't want to give up Melky also. All 3 have been terrible this year. it's obviously not too late for Hughes and Ian, though, i think they still have a good future with NY.

Pete Abe says Hughes was hitting 95mph in rehab, so that's a good sign. ;)

And Kennedy has been dominant in AAA, so he'll get another shot. Hopefully he can figure it out and not turn into some AAAA pitcher.

YanksFan1992
08-03-08, 08:50 PM
"first of all" i was obviously talking about when beltran WAS a free agent and they let him sign elsewhere.

"second" because the Yankees starting pitching this season could have really used another Anchor like santana. the reason they didn't trade for Santana was cuz they were counting on Hughes and Kennedy, and they didn't want to give up Melky also. All 3 have been terrible this year. it's obviously not too late for Hughes and Ian, though, i think they still have a good future with NY.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the upcoming year.

I find hard to say that at the age of 23, Melky's career is over. Also, I'm guessing the Yankees are going to give it their all to sign Sabathia, and seeing how Sabathia will probably make a simliar amount to Santana, would you rather have (for almost the same price) Sabathia, Hughes, Kennedy and Melky or Santana.

JeterForPresident
08-03-08, 08:52 PM
Sorry, I thought you were referring to the upcoming year.

I find hard to say that at the age of 23, Melky's career is over. Also, I'm guessing the Yankees are going to give it their all to sign Sabathia, and seeing how Sabathia will probably make a simliar amount to Santana, would you rather have (for almost the same price) Sabathia, Hughes, Kennedy and Melky or Santana.

There is no doubt Santana is great and would be nice to have on the team, but not at the price it would have cost in cash and prospects not to mention can he hold up throughout the whole contract.

Cashman is looking more long term, and Santana at the price he commanded combined with the price the Twins commanded in prospects, just didn't fit in with the plan.

Also somebody mentioned Beltran before and although he is a solid CF, he got a huge contract, way too much for him, and I am glad we didn't give it to him.

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:53 PM
Yankees are going to give it their all to sign Sabathia, and seeing how Sabathia will probably make a simliar amount to Santana, would you rather have (for almost the same price) Sabathia, Hughes, Kennedy and Melky or Santana.

For me, it's close enough between the two that I'd rather sign Sabathia to a large contract (for a large man), rather than trade my top prospects AND the big contract for Santana.

YanksFan1992
08-03-08, 08:54 PM
There is no doubt Santana is great and would be nice to have on the team, but not at the price it would have cost in cash and prospects not to mention can he hold up throughout the whole contract.

Cashman is looking more long term, and Santana at the price he commanded combined with the price the Twins commanded in prospects, just didn't fit in with the plan.

Also somebody mentioned Beltran before and although he is a solid CF, he got a huge contract, way too much for him, and I am glad we didn't give it to him.

I completely agree with everything you said, so I apologize if my post seemed to point towards a different direction.

LIYanks
08-03-08, 08:54 PM
LF Gardner
CF Melky
RF Christian

We'd be lucky if they can combine for as many RBI as Manny by himself.

Not gonna happen.

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:55 PM
Also somebody mentioned Beltran before and although he is a solid CF, he got a huge contract, way too much for him, and I am glad we didn't give it to him.

Beltran would have come to the Yankees for less money than the Mets had to pay.

Yankee Steve
08-03-08, 08:55 PM
My problem with Gardner is that he was late on every pitch and was never able to make any sort of adjustment to speed up his bat. He rarely pulled anything, which wouldn't be so bad if he was driving the ball the other way. While he was up with the yanks, he was giving an awful lot of souvenirs to the fans in the lower deck behind 3rd.

JeterForPresident
08-03-08, 08:56 PM
I completely agree with everything you said, so I apologize if my post seemed to point towards a different direction.

No not at all, I was actually just using your post as a jump off point, basically agreeing with everything you said.

I find it amazing to believe that people are already giving up on Hughes. We knew there would be growing pains and we knew Santana would pitch well, nobody should be surprised by this.

JeterForPresident
08-03-08, 08:57 PM
Beltran would have come to the Yankees for less money than the Mets had to pay.

I don't remember the exact numbers and I do remember hearing that, but it wasn't dramatically less so I still am glad. I can understand if you would have liked having him but I was fine with passing on him.

YankeesAce4Life
08-03-08, 08:59 PM
Beltran would have come to the Yankees for less money than the Mets had to pay.

Less money because he took a year off the contract. So in reality, same money per year but less years.

bigjf
08-03-08, 08:59 PM
My problem with Gardner is that he was late on every pitch and was never able to make any sort of adjustment to speed up his bat. He rarely pulled anything, which wouldn't be so bad if he was driving the ball the other way. While he was up with the yanks, he was giving an awful lot of souvenirs to the fans in the lower deck behind 3rd.

I'm not sure if that's a product of not being able to catch up to the fastball or if it is just his approach. I gotta believe he's seen 95mph in AAA. I think he's just trying to slap the ball the other way with 2 strikes. He's probably had more success with it in the minors because he can beat those out on the ground for infield hits, but at the big league level they make the spectacular plays. So that's part of the adjustment he needs to make in terms of being able to have better pitch recognition, getting into his count, looking for his pitch, and using his legs to drive it.

mrmike98
08-03-08, 09:00 PM
I think he has the potential to have Ichiro-like skill.

.

Gimme a break, babe.

NEVER compare or project a weasel like Gardner to a HOF player like Ichiro.

These posts keep getting more outrageous by the minute.

bigjf
08-03-08, 09:02 PM
I don't remember the exact numbers and I do remember hearing that, but it wasn't dramatically less so I still am glad. I can understand if you would have liked having him but I was fine with passing on him.

Fair enough. :)

genius-24
08-03-08, 09:03 PM
I want to get legitimate CFer. Get Kemp/Granderson/etc. We have same freakin problem every freakin year. Damon is breaking down. Melky is Garbage. Gardner/Christian are bench players. Austin Jackson is still a minor leaguer with no major league exp.

Damon/Matsui should get traded, preferably Damon b.c he has higher value and he seems closer to big time injury. Nady will play RF, Matsui/Damon LF, and we will have a new young CFer.

Godzilllllla
08-03-08, 09:04 PM
Gimme a break, babe.

NEVER compare or project a weasel like Gardner to a HOF player like Ichiro.

These posts keep getting more outrageous by the minute.

i'm pretty sure that was sarcasm, babe.

why is gardner a "weasel", babe.

have i mentioned how annoying your posts are, babe?

bigjf
08-03-08, 09:04 PM
Gimme a break, babe.

NEVER compare or project a weasel like Gardner to a HOF player like Ichiro.

These posts keep getting more outrageous by the minute.

A weasel? Did he spit in your soup once or something?

I'm just saying he has the potential to play that kind of game. He may never pan out, but that's the kind of projection he would aspire to, from what I can tell.

bigjf
08-03-08, 09:06 PM
Less money because he took a year off the contract. So in reality, same money per year but less years.

Thanks for the correction.

mrmike98
08-03-08, 09:08 PM
i'm pretty sure that was sarcasm, babe.

why is gardner a "weasel", babe.

have i mentioned how annoying your posts are, babe?

Hard to part with the sarcasm. It's in my DNA.

It's equally hard not to react when a poster compares a AAA player to Ichiro.

bigjf
08-03-08, 09:16 PM
Hard to part with the sarcasm. It's in my DNA.

It's equally hard not to react when a poster compares a AAA player to Ichiro.

Don't ever talk to a baseball scout then. Their job is to make those kind of projections.

I'm just saying they play the same type of game. Ichiro can drive the ball and hit for power, and his arm is a cannon. I mean no disrespect towards him, but if Gardner can learn to drive the ball, then that is basically what you get, a high on-base guy with speed and quality defense. Maybe not HOF worthy, but good enough to be an everyday player, maybe even an all-star. But he's got to make the adjustments, of course.

allstarcano22
08-03-08, 09:16 PM
we should def get bubba crosby back

bigjf
08-03-08, 09:17 PM
we should def get bubba crosby back

I think he's still feeling it from when he got leveled by Sheff. It can take decades to recover from a Sheff shot.

JL25and3
08-03-08, 09:21 PM
Why is this an issue in early August?

boday
08-03-08, 09:27 PM
You make a valid point, but the way I see it Beltran has only had one truly disappointing season so far with the Mets, though they'd certainly like him to pick it up a bit to finish off this year. Considering that the Yanks could've had Beltran at a discount, I think he would've done fine in the Bronx too. Not to mention, these signings didn't occur at the same time. Bernie had a lot to do with why they didn't get Beltran. Beltran is a terrific CF with a great arm, and he's been pretty amazing in the postseason. I was OK with the Damon signing, but given the choice, I would've taken
Beltran.

I think it was more that the money was earmarked for Johnson the old pitcher. Beltran plays state of the art defense and up the middle defense should overshadow offense. Other than Cano, the Yankees up the middle are weak, well now with Molina and Ivan Catching is a plus. You notice the miracle I Rod committed with Ponson. The little jobber is good. Or Molina's work with Moose.

mrmike98
08-03-08, 09:30 PM
Why is this an issue in early August?

Right you are!

The main focus should be on winning this year.

Yankees47
08-03-08, 09:33 PM
why does everyone think bobby is gonna be gone

He is a FA and will want 3 years 45 million at the minimium...If he continues hitting he will want 4 years at close to 60 Million..He will be 35 years old next season and his defense has already began to erode..long term he is just not in the Yankees plans

R.V.47
08-03-08, 09:35 PM
He is a FA and will want 3 years 45 million at the minimium...If he continues hitting he will want 4 years at close to 60 Million..He will be 35 years old next season and his defense has already began to erode..long term he is just not in the Yankees plans

I agree, Abreu has been tremendous for the yanks in his 2 and a half years here but unless he accepts a 1 or 2 at the most year deal, we will have to part ways with him because we have a much cheaper option in Nady and we could use the money we would be giving to Abreu toward a CC or a Texeira signing.

allstarcano22
08-03-08, 09:35 PM
I think he's still feeling it from when he got leveled by Sheff. It can take decades to recover from a Sheff shot.

i think sheff is concussed too, gis run in with the bubba train has led to his 230 batting avg this year

Yankees47
08-03-08, 09:35 PM
I want to get legitimate CFer. Get Kemp/Granderson/etc. We have same freakin problem every freakin year. Damon is breaking down. Melky is Garbage. Gardner/Christian are bench players. Austin Jackson is still a minor leaguer with no major league exp.

Damon/Matsui should get traded, preferably Damon b.c he has higher value and he seems closer to big time injury. Nady will play RF, Matsui/Damon LF, and we will have a new young CFer.

Very good post, I completely agree, we have had the likes of Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle and even Bernie Williams patrol CF for us and now we have recently had the Bubba Crosbys, Melky Cabrerras and Brett Gardners of the world...I thought the Yankees should have Signed Torii Hunter in the off season..

allstarcano22
08-03-08, 09:37 PM
I agree, Abreu has been tremendous for the yanks in his 2 and a half years here but unless he accepts a 1 or 2 at the most year deal, we will have to part ways with him because we have a much cheaper option in Nady and we could use the money we would be giving to Abreu toward a CC or a Texeira signing.

CC.....:drool:

27IsNext
08-03-08, 09:39 PM
LF - Johnny Damon
CF - Melky Cabrera
RF - Milton Bradley/Pat Burrell/Manny Ramirez
DH - Hideki Matsui

Package Nady with Wang for a high-end positional prospect.

Yankees47
08-03-08, 09:39 PM
I agree, Abreu has been tremendous for the yanks in his 2 and a half years here but unless he accepts a 1 or 2 at the most year deal, we will have to part ways with him because we have a much cheaper option in Nady and we could use the money we would be giving to Abreu toward a CC or a Texeira signing.

I am a really big fan of Xavier Nady..I liked him in Pittsburgh, I liked him with the Mets and I even liked him back in San Diego...A righty power bat that is entering the prime of his career and just seems to get hits in big spots and has a very nice arm...Nady is on the way up and Abreu is on the way down so you take the two draft picks...And you know who else I LOVE and think would fit in like a glove here in NY is Adrian Gonzalez...He would cost a lot but I would be wiling to trade anything outside of Hughes, Joba, Cano to get him to stop the carousel at first base...Adrian is only 26 years old and hitting 35 HR a year in Petco park..in our lineup he could hit 45 in Yankee Stadium

Yankees47
08-03-08, 09:41 PM
CC.....:drool:


Worried about how many innings he pitches every year and his weight and hes not really that good in big spots...ie playoffs..every time I sit down and watch him when he faces good competition (playoffs, even the cubs last week) he struggles

Yankees47
08-03-08, 09:42 PM
LF - Johnny Damon
CF - Melky Cabrera
RF - Milton Bradley/Pat Burrell/Manny Ramirez
DH - Hideki Matsui

Package Nady with Wang for a high-end positional prospect.

Are you serious?? I am really happy that you have no say over the trades the Yankees make

HughesIsNasty
08-03-08, 09:42 PM
Manny if RF!!!!!! ahhh no. Wheres Nady?

Trade Gardner...

LF: Manny
CF: Melky (yuck) / Jackson in June
RF: Nady
DH: Damon
1B: Posada

themgmt
08-03-08, 09:42 PM
Nady and Wang for a positional prospect...

I think now I've heard it all

HughesIsNasty
08-03-08, 09:44 PM
LF - Johnny Damon
CF - Melky Cabrera
RF - Milton Bradley/Pat Burrell/Manny Ramirez
DH - Hideki Matsui

Package Nady with Wang for a high-end positional prospect.

WHATTTTTTTTTT hahaha it better be the #1 prospect in the game.

LIYanks
08-03-08, 09:44 PM
LF - Johnny Damon
CF - Melky Cabrera
RF - Milton Bradley/Pat Burrell/Manny Ramirez
DH - Hideki Matsui

Package Nady with Wang for a high-end positional prospect.

Is that you, Theo?

Yeah, let's trade Nady and Wang for Ellsbury.

Vin
08-03-08, 09:46 PM
Kemp, A-Jax, Nady...okay, I can dream

27IsNext
08-03-08, 09:57 PM
Are you serious?? I am really happy that you have no say over the trades the Yankees make

Haven't noticed our lack of young, good positional players in the minors have you?

Nady is playing over his head and we have so much depth in right-handed starting pitchers that we can afford to trade for a young, MLB-ready (or close) positional player.

HughesIsNasty
08-03-08, 09:59 PM
You dont trade your ace and your starting LF (who is hitting 330 with 15+ homers) for a prospect when you are trying to contend, you just dont.

wang+cano=future
08-03-08, 10:01 PM
Haven't noticed our lack of young, good positional players in the minors have you?

Nady is playing over his head and we have so much depth in right-handed starting pitchers that we can afford to trade for a young, MLB-ready (or close) positional player.


It is true that most of the positional prospects are in Charleston at the highest. But you don't package your RF for next season and your most proven, dependable pitcher for a prospect.

27IsNext
08-03-08, 10:03 PM
You dont trade your ace and your starting LF (who is hitting 330 with 15+ homers) for a prospect when you are trying to contend, you just dont.

There are several free agents who can man right field that would allow Nady to be expendable. His career numbers are .281/.337/.458/.796. I'm happy with what he's doing THIS YEAR, but given those stats, it's likely an outlier for him. The Yankees should absolutely sell high.

Of the young, homegrown players, Chamberlain is our ace going forward. If Sabathia or Sheets can't be signed, obviously you reconsider making Wang available.

wang+cano=future
08-03-08, 10:06 PM
There are several free agents who can man right field that would allow Nady to be expendable. His career numbers are .281/.337/.458/.796. I'm happy with what he's doing THIS YEAR, but given those stats, it's likely an outlier for him. The Yankees should absolutely sell high.

Of the young, homegrown players, Chamberlain is our ace going forward. If Sabathia or Sheets can't be signed, obviously you reconsider making Wang available.


What prospect do you think is worth Nady and Wang????????

27IsNext
08-03-08, 10:07 PM
It is true that most of the positional prospects are in Charleston at the highest. But you don't package your RF for next season and your most proven, dependable pitcher for a prospect.

Several of those Charleston players, like Romine, Angelini and Almonte, are going to have to repeat the level. Montero is the only A prospect of the bunch right now, although Suttle has that potential (needs to cut down on the Ks) and Snyder could end up being a solid middle infielder.

In the outfield, we've really got nothing outside of Jackson.

allstarcano22
08-03-08, 10:08 PM
ya lets trade nady and wang for randy johnson

and then resign carl pavano for the next 6 years

jpm114
08-03-08, 10:12 PM
It's impossible to speculate as to what the 2009 outfield will be without discussing the overall configuration of the lineup and roster. I think, for example that what happens in the outfield will be determined by what happens with Texiera. If he signs to play first base he takes over both Giambi's position on the field and Abreu's position in the batting order. That means Nady returns to his best position (right) and the two outfielders with the most age (Matsui and Damon) will alternate between left field and DH. Both have shown that they're still productive players when healthy and I doubt the organization will make a long term investment in an outfielder that effectively blocks Jackson whenever he's ready. He likely will be given time at triple A but it's pretty clear the Yankees like him and clear he's made very good progress. This particular scenario leaves Melky and Gardner to battle things out for center field and the 9th spot in the batting order. Jackson may eventually take that spot but it's also plausable to see AJax in left, a position that you need centerfield skills to play in Yankee stadium. Remember the playing dimensions in the new park are supposed to match those in the old yard.

Another thing that could effect what the Yanks do this winter is the catching situation. I can't help but come away impressed with how much better the Yankees pitch, and how much better they play defensively when Molina and not Posada is catching. I believe the catcher's ability to call the game helps the pitcher establish the quick pace the defense likes. With this in mind it's also possible that the Yanks would sign another catch and throw guy to split time with Molina, play Posada at first and re-sign Abreu who, despite diminished defensive skills remains a good htter and clutch hitter. The problem with that is that Nady, who initially found success with San Diego a a "4th outfielder" now looks like a guy who needs to play every day. And no despite Michael Kay's pronouncements to the contrary he's not a guy who can occassionally play center field.

wang+cano=future
08-03-08, 10:14 PM
Several of those Charleston players, like Romine, Angelini and Almonte, are going to have to repeat the level. Montero is the only A prospect of the bunch right now, although Suttle has that potential (needs to cut down on the Ks) and Snyder could end up being a solid middle infielder.

In the outfield, we've really got nothing outside of Jackson.


Yeah, like I said, I agree that most of the positional prospects aren't out of low A yet. But why would you trade two important pieces that help you contend for a prospect. Plus, who would want to trade a high upside, young, cost-controlled, important part of the future prospect for 2 players who are about to become considerably more expensive? Those kind of players aren't traded (other than Hanley Ramirez or LaPorta). It is like the Reds trading away Bruce, the O's trading Weiters or the Rangers trading Andrus. It almost never happens. And it NEVER happens with the Yankees.

27IsNext
08-03-08, 10:16 PM
What prospect do you think is worth Nady and Wang????????

Off the top of my head? LaPorta + a B prospect from the Indians? Chase Headley? Jason Heyward and another prospect from the Braves?

Heck, doens't even have to be hitting. Who has a good, young lefty starter?

genius-24
08-03-08, 10:19 PM
It's impossible to speculate as to what the 2009 outfield will be without discussing the overall configuration of the lineup and roster. I think, for example that what happens in the outfield will be determined by what happens with Texiera. If he signs to play first base he takes over both Giambi's position on the field and Abreu's position in the batting order. That means Nady returns to his best position (right) and the two outfielders with the most age (Matsui and Damon) will alternate between left field and DH. Both have shown that they're still productive players when healthy and I doubt the organization will make a long term investment in an outfielder that effectively blocks Jackson whenever he's ready. He likely will be given time at triple A but it's pretty clear the Yankees like him and clear he's made very good progress. This particular scenario leaves Melky and Gardner to battle things out for center field and the 9th spot in the batting order. Jackson may eventually take that spot but it's also plausable to see AJax in left, a position that you need centerfield skills to play in Yankee stadium. Remember the playing dimensions in the new park are supposed to match those in the old yard.
Why not?
Damon, Matsui and Nady will be coming in their contract years. If we get a good legitimate young CFer and if AJax develops like how he suppose to then he can just shift into one or two other vacant spot(s) that will inevitably open up. Not to mention there have been countless high tier prospects who have failed at being reasonably good at ML level.

wang+cano=future
08-03-08, 10:20 PM
Off the top of my head? LaPorta + a B prospect from the Indians? Chase Headley? Jason Heyward and another prospect from the Braves?

Heck, doens't even have to be hitting. Who has a good, young lefty starter?


Why would you want to trade Nady, who has proven he can hit, or Wang, who has proven he is a very successful pitcher at the major league, for a prospect that might pitch very well or might hit at the major league level?


But to go back on topic I would be very surprised if the outfield next year out of spring training wasnt Damon - Melky - Nady.

27IsNext
08-03-08, 10:25 PM
Why would you want to trade Nady, who has proven he can hit, or Wang, who has proven he is a very successful pitcher at the major league, for a prospect that might pitch very well or might hit at the major league level?

Because...
A.) Nady is playing over his head, and likely will not repeat this year.
B.) Assuming Sabathia or Sheets is signed, along with either Pettitte or Moose coming back for one year, to go with Chamberlain and Hughes, Wang is expendable, considering our depth for right-handed starters.

The whole idea is upon the Yankees being able to sign a good right fielder and fill out a rotation without Wang as a major piece. If neither Sheets nor Sabathia can be had, keep Wang. If Bradley, Burrell or Manny can't be signed to reasonable deals, keep Nady.

steholz
08-03-08, 10:29 PM
Because, despite his recent hot streak, he seems to be on the decline. Given that he'll be 35 next year and will most likely demand a 3 year contract, it would probably be best to let him go. He's no longer the .400/.500 guy you would be paying for.

As for Manny, really? Do we honestly need to give a 37 year old a 4 year/$80M+ contract whose best position is DH? A player that has clearly declined (although he's still a great hitter), has shown time and time again that he will take days off whenenver he feels like it, be it by playing and not trying or just not playing, and now requests days off against top pitchers. The Manny you will get from 2009-2012 is not the Manny we have seen for the last 10 years. It's more like the Manny of 2007 and probably worse than that as he continues to age.

Great point. The price we would pay would be based on what he HAS DONE, not for what he WILL DO. And, like you said, it'll be a mistake.

Yankeesfan811
08-03-08, 10:31 PM
Because...
A.) Nady is playing over his head, and likely will not repeat this year.
B.) Assuming Sabathia or Sheets is signed, along with either Pettitte or Moose coming back for one year, to go with Chamberlain and Hughes, Wang is expendable, considering our depth for right-handed starters.

The whole idea is upon the Yankees being able to sign a good right fielder and fill out a rotation without Wang as a major piece. If neither Sheets nor Sabathia can be had, keep Wang. If Bradley, Burrell or Manny can't be signed to reasonable deals, keep Nady.

umm....some serious flaws to those plans....

Why kick Wang out of the rotation? he's been one of the best in the AL for the past two years.....

also....why not try to sign Bobby Abreu to a one or two year deal? I have no interest in signing Pat Burrell (who was awful last year), Bradley (who beats his wife), and Manny (insert reason why here, there are thousands).

False1
08-03-08, 10:31 PM
Sorry, I thought you were referring to the upcoming year.

I find hard to say that at the age of 23, Melky's career is over. Also, I'm guessing the Yankees are going to give it their all to sign Sabathia, and seeing how Sabathia will probably make a simliar amount to Santana, would you rather have (for almost the same price) Sabathia, Hughes, Kennedy and Melky or Santana.Let me disclose I was against Hughes+Kennedy+Melky for Santana.

However, there is no guarantee that Sabathia signs with the Yankees, so it's not this cut and dry. Also to be fair, if we sign CC we're giving up a 1st round draft pick, so you have to throw that in there too. Lastly, Santana was available this year, whereas CC won't be available until next year.

All that said, I'm still glad we didn't pay the asking price. BUT some of that is because I hope they can get CC (and possibly Sheets) this offseason. I hope we don't whiff on that.

Godzilllllla
08-03-08, 10:34 PM
ya lets trade nady and wang for randy johnson

and then resign carl pavano for the next 6 years

hahahahahahaha... i laughed :)

Godzilllllla
08-03-08, 10:37 PM
All that said, I'm still glad we didn't pay the asking price. BUT some of that is because I hope they can get CC (and possibly Sheets) this offseason. I hope we don't whiff on that.

I can't imagine us whiffing on CC AND sheets. i think for sure we'll get sheets if CC decides for less money but getting to bat and play on the west coast (dodgers?). but, if we could get CC and teixiera, along with a trade or two we would be looking pretty good for next season

allstarcano22
08-03-08, 10:40 PM
I can't imagine us whiffing on CC AND sheets. i think for sure we'll get sheets if CC decides for less money but getting to bat and play on the west coast (dodgers?). but, if we could get CC and teixiera, along with a trade or two we would be looking pretty good for next season

Yessir...

Wang
CC/Sheets
Joba
Moose
Hughes/Kennedy

Damon DH
Jeter SS
Tex 1B
Arod 3B
MAtsui LF
Nady RF
Cano 2B
Pudge C
Melky CF

JeterForPresident
08-03-08, 10:41 PM
Just say no to Manny!

allstarcano22
08-03-08, 10:43 PM
Just say no to Manny!

i would rather have bonds than manny i dont want him coming near pinstripes

Godzilllllla
08-03-08, 10:43 PM
manny will re-sign with the dodgers- he's already loving that mediocre NL pitching.

PS- when are they just going to start walking him every AB, he's the only power hitter in their whole lineup

JeterForPresident
08-03-08, 10:45 PM
i would rather have bonds than manny i dont want him coming near pinstripes

I'm going with neither. Not only because they are major distractions but because they are both examples of the guys the Yankees need to stay away from and that Cashman is intent on staying away from.

CptCrunch
08-03-08, 10:47 PM
Kentucky bluegrass, I believe.

allstarcano22
08-03-08, 10:48 PM
I'm going with neither. Not only because they are major distractions but because they are both examples of the guys the Yankees need to stay away from and that Cashman is intent on staying away from.

yea i dont want either of them, i was just saying i would rather have bonds to try and illustrate how much i do not want manny lol

JeterForPresident
08-03-08, 10:49 PM
yea i dont want either of them, i was just saying i would rather have bonds to try and illustrate how much i do not want manny lol

Ok, well I would almost go there but my Bonds hatred won't allow me to say it. LOL

27IsNext
08-03-08, 10:50 PM
umm....some serious flaws to those plans....

Why kick Wang out of the rotation? he's been one of the best in the AL for the past two years.....

also....why not try to sign Bobby Abreu to a one or two year deal? I have no interest in signing Pat Burrell (who was awful last year), Bradley (who beats his wife), and Manny (insert reason why here, there are thousands).

Who's kicking him out? I'd like to trade him if we can get value back, not "kick him out."

Abreu is declining yet won't be accepting anything less than a three-year contract.

Burrell's career stats are .260/.370/.490/.860 and his 2007 numbers are .256/.400/.502/.902 so I'm not sure where you got the idea he was "awful" last year. Bradley's career numbers are good and seems to have settled down. I wouldn't mind Manny at all in right if he'd take three years or less.

False1
08-03-08, 10:57 PM
I dont understand why everyone thinks we missed out on some huge opportunity by not signing Beltran. He has by almost every measure underperformed to the expectations of his contract with the Mets who overpaid big time because Beltran was coming off one of the best post season hitting performances in recent memory. He has never been a 300 hitter, his power has dropped off lately except for one good season with the Mets and he doesnt steal as many bases as he used too. I think the yanks have gotten much more out of Damons contract than the Mets have gotten out of Beltrans and Damons was shorter and IMO he was a better fit for our needs as we needed a true leadoff guy.I'm not trying to sound down on Damon. But you're ignoring major points.

First, these guys were both signed to premium contracts because they at the time they were centerfielders. Only one of them still is. Since Damon signed with the Yankees, he has played 185 games in center. In that same time period, Beltran has played in 383.

Second, Beltran is the far superior center fielder. He has a very strong arm. Damon's arm allowed frequent extra bases and eventually cost him his job and necessitated our Melky experiment.

Third, timing. In 2005 Beltran's 95 OPS+ (assuming that short porch in RF wouldn't have helped) would have been an improvement at the dish over Bernie's 85 OPS+. Not to mention Bubba Crosby's 70 OPS+. Or Melky's 14 OPS+.


Fourth, what stats are you looking at???
OPS+ 2006/07/08
Beltran = 150 / 126 / 117
Damon = 115 /97 /126

He's overpaid and the contract is a bit longer than you'd like (although if AJax is the answer he'd be the perfect bridge up to him). But let's be realistic about how huge it would have been if the Yankees had signed him.


QFT. I'm glad we didn't get Beltran. He was really only a great player duting that one post season run. Otherwise he's just been solid to good. Definitely not worth what he's being paid.The word on the street was the Yankees could have gotten him at a $20MM discount to the Mets offer. And true five tool CFers that produce like Beltran does don't grow on trees. His '05 was substandard but I'd kill for Melky to have a year like that. Remember - the true comparison is ~ 1 full season of Damon in CF and two years of Cabrera compared to Beltran.

justinvarnes
08-03-08, 10:57 PM
I think allowing Nady to take over for Abreu works as long as they get Texeira.

For example: putting Posada at 1st, Nady in RF and Melky/Damon in CF and LF makes for an incredibly weak offensive output for those positions, IMO.

Abreu can't put his usual .900 OPS up for the nezt 4 years, and he'll likely get a 3 or 4 year contract somewhere else. But we either need a BIG bat in the OF or a BIG bat at 1B...and preferrably both!

allstarcano22
08-03-08, 10:57 PM
i would rather trade hughes than wang, wang is a proven ace, hes won 19 games the last 2 seasons, excluding this one. hughes hasnt proven himself yet and we just project what we think he can do. i will cry if we trade wang

bigjf
08-04-08, 12:12 AM
What prospect do you think is worth Nady and Wang????????

Pujols and a prospect.

bigjf
08-04-08, 12:19 AM
Who's kicking him out? I'd like to trade him if we can get value back, not "kick him out."

Abreu is declining yet won't be accepting anything less than a three-year contract.

Burrell's career stats are .260/.370/.490/.860 and his 2007 numbers are .256/.400/.502/.902 so I'm not sure where you got the idea he was "awful" last year. Bradley's career numbers are good and seems to have settled down. I wouldn't mind Manny at all in right if he'd take three years or less.

What "value" are you expecting? Unless you're trading him to the Phillies for Cole Hamels, Ryan Howard, and Chase Utley, it doesn't make sense to trade Wang. He's a top flight starter in his prime and cheap in financial cost. He's the kind of value that teams trade for, not dump. He is untouchable, never gonna happen.

And are you saying you would sign Manny the headcase to a 3 year deal at his age, but not Abreu? Maybe I'm not reading that right, because Manny is going to decline too and will cost more money. And Manny is looking for 4 years.

bigjf
08-04-08, 12:22 AM
Yessir...

Wang
CC/Sheets
Joba
Moose
Hughes/Kennedy

Damon DH
Jeter SS
Tex 1B
Arod 3B
MAtsui LF
Nady RF
Cano 2B
Pudge C
Melky CF

Man, kicking Jorge out quick, aren't we?

genius-24
08-04-08, 12:23 AM
some of you guys amuse me to no end...

Vin
08-04-08, 12:45 AM
There are several free agents who can man right field that would allow Nady to be expendable. His career numbers are .281/.337/.458/.796. I'm happy with what he's doing THIS YEAR, but given those stats, it's likely an outlier for him. The Yankees should absolutely sell high.


He played at a pitcher's park, he's young and with the Yankee lineup he's not going to get worse. Nady is the least of their concern. And why is it when a player is doing good it's an outlier? why don't we judge what he does after 2 years.

27IsNext
08-04-08, 01:03 AM
What "value" are you expecting? Unless you're trading him to the Phillies for Cole Hamels, Ryan Howard, and Chase Utley, it doesn't make sense to trade Wang. He's a top flight starter in his prime and cheap in financial cost. He's the kind of value that teams trade for, not dump. He is untouchable, never gonna happen.

And are you saying you would sign Manny the headcase to a 3 year deal at his age, but not Abreu? Maybe I'm not reading that right, because Manny is going to decline too and will cost more money. And Manny is looking for 4 years.

What if Prince Fielder is available this offseason, as is rumored? I love Chien-Ming, but I'd do that trade in a NY minute.

allstarcano22
08-04-08, 02:23 AM
What if Prince Fielder is available this offseason, as is rumored? I love Chien-Ming, but I'd do that trade in a NY minute.

ya i love how Fielder swings the bat, its like he has a grudge against the ball

ober0n98
08-04-08, 04:07 AM
I'm not trying to sound down on Damon. But you're ignoring major points.

First, these guys were both signed to premium contracts because they at the time they were centerfielders. Only one of them still is. Since Damon signed with the Yankees, he has played 185 games in center. In that same time period, Beltran has played in 383.

Second, Beltran is the far superior center fielder. He has a very strong arm. Damon's arm allowed frequent extra bases and eventually cost him his job and necessitated our Melky experiment.

Third, timing. In 2005 Beltran's 95 OPS+ (assuming that short porch in RF wouldn't have helped) would have been an improvement at the dish over Bernie's 85 OPS+. Not to mention Bubba Crosby's 70 OPS+. Or Melky's 14 OPS+.



Fourth, what stats are you looking at???
OPS+ 2006/07/08
Beltran = 150 / 126 / 117
Damon = 115 /97 /126


He's overpaid and the contract is a bit longer than you'd like (although if AJax is the answer he'd be the perfect bridge up to him). But let's be realistic about how huge it would have been if the Yankees had signed him.

The word on the street was the Yankees could have gotten him at a $20MM discount to the Mets offer. And true five tool CFers that produce like Beltran does don't grow on trees. His '05 was substandard but I'd kill for Melky to have a year like that. Remember - the true comparison is ~ 1 full season of Damon in CF and two years of Cabrera compared to Beltran.

ugh, i don't know why we didn't jump on that over damon.

slot beltran at third and a-rod at four...would've been one hell of a combo

Yankees1962
08-04-08, 05:26 AM
some of you guys amuse me to no end...
That's why we're baseball fans and not GMs.

mrmike98
08-04-08, 06:48 AM
some of you guys amuse me to no end...

Right you are!

Sometimes it's a bit offensive, but hey that's baseball.

BennyTheJetRodriguez
08-04-08, 06:52 AM
Wouldn't any hope of trading for Prince Fielder have gone out the window when Matt LaPorta was traded?

genius-24
08-04-08, 06:55 AM
That's why we're baseball fans and not GMs.
yup, i over did it. you are right. :D

bigjf
08-04-08, 10:49 AM
What if Prince Fielder is available this offseason, as is rumored? I love Chien-Ming, but I'd do that trade in a NY minute.

I like Prince myself, but even if he is available this off-season, I don't know if I'd trade Wang for him. I think for me it would take signing both CC and Sheets before I could consider trading Wang away. Prince also has his father's body type. He's going to break down quick and not give you good defense at 1B. But that is a big bat if Hughes and/or Kennedy can fill the void. I'd agree with you on that.

The issue from there is, would the Brewers take Wang, who is arbitration eligible and under team control for a couple more years? I don't know the answer to that one. Maybe they make that deal and then flip Wang elsewhere for prospects? In any case, not a terrible deal but one where I'd have to have CC and Sheets to feel confident about doing it.

teknetic
08-04-08, 10:54 AM
Trading Wang and getting CC (if) kinda defeats the purpose of having a stud rotation.

CC
Joba
Pettitte/Moose
Hughes
Kennedy

If either Joba or CC gets hurt, you're back to where you were this year. Wang could get us talent, but he was a different pitcher this year (for the better; got off to his best start and then had four pretty crappy ones)