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View Full Version : Why isn't Cashman trying to deal Farnsworth/Veras?



Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 10:55 AM
This is something that has been bugging me recently, and even more so with the recent acquisition of Damaso Marte. Now, everyone knows our bullpen has been incredible recently, with an ERA of 3.36 that is likely go to even lower with the DFA of LaTroy Hawkins. But is it really necessary to keep 5 viable set-up men in the bullpen, and would it be a good idea to try to deal one of them to get some decent prospects in return?

Now, Farnsworth has been great this year, and I give him all the credit in the world for turning it around from last year. That said, at this point he's the worst pitcher in our bullpen with a WHIP of 1.34. He's been good against righties with them only having a OPS of 704 against him, but lefties have been mashing him to the tune of a 963 OPS. We look around the league and see the many teams eager to acquire relief pitchers like Brian Fuentes and Damaso Marte, and I couldn't help but think that this would be a perfect time to try to shop Farnsworth around when his value has never been higher. Put simply, we don't need him in our bullpen and he might actually be hurting us as Girardi seems to insist on using him as the set-up man when everyone else in the bullpen has been statistically better. The only line of thinking that makes sense to me for not dealing him is that Cashman is hoping he'll be a Type B free agent at the end of the year.

Alternatively, we could deal Veras, who has also been great this year to the tune of a 2.94 ERA and 1.22 WHIP, with righties having a 592 OPS against him and lefties not faring much better with 679. Even with those stats, however, he's the 2nd worst arm in the bullpen aside from Farnsworth. Not only that, but he's the least likely out of any of the pitchers in our bullpen to sustain the level of success he's had (Robertson/Edwar destroyed the minors, Farnsworth/Marte have had success in the past, Mo is Mo) and it's possible he might never be this good ever again. That said, his stats are still pretty eye popping, and he's 27 and making nearly league minimum, so I can't imagine that other teams wouldn't be interested in him enough to give up a decent prospect if Cashman decided to shop him around the league.

Now, I don't feel we should get rid of BOTH pitchers, but simply trading one would not be much of a blow to our bullpen, and it makes me question why Cashman is not trying sell high on either of these guys when he can. That said, I can't blame him for looking at our bullpen and being positively giddy at the fact that no one in our bullpen has an ERA of 3.50.

Edit: Heheh, opened my mouth too soon.

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 10:57 AM
You don't know that Cash isn't trying to trade either of them. I recommended we trade Kyle last week. I still feel it's the wise move.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 10:59 AM
I don't get it. What are you hoping to get in return? What's wrong with having a great bullpen? Every other year, we're all clamoring to get a better bullpen in place. Now that we've got it, we want to trade away some of the pieces? And for what?

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-28-08, 10:59 AM
Interesting question, but if it's working, I don't think they are going to mess with the bullpen. The depth we have in the bullpen is great right now, and good pitching will certainly come in handy during the stretch drive.

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 11:01 AM
I don't get it. What are you hoping to get in return? What's wrong with having a great bullpen? Every other year, we're all clamoring to get a better bullpen in place. Now that we've got it, we want to trade away some of the pieces? And for what?

Why not get some decent prospects? There MUST be several teams frustrated with the asking prices of Brian Fuentes, so why not try to get them interested in Kyle Farnsworth at a lower price?

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:02 AM
Why not get some decent prospects? There MUST be several teams frustrated with the asking prices of Brian Fuentes, so why not try to get them interested in Kyle Farnsworth at a lower price?
What's "a lower price?" B-level prospects as opposed to the A-level prospects other teams are asking for? I don't see how that's worth parting with a piece of the bullpen that has been huge this year.

YankeePride1967
07-28-08, 11:03 AM
How do you know he is/isn't? Also, why would we want to trade Veras?

Yankees47
07-28-08, 11:03 AM
Why not get some decent prospects? There MUST be several teams frustrated with the asking prices of Brian Fuentes, so why not try to get them interested in Kyle Farnsworth at a lower price?

Nah doesnt make any sense dealing Farns or Veras...Our bullpen is the strength of this team and I would def not weaken it..Secondly let Farns go in the offeason, hes having a nice season and will fetch you some draft picks

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 11:03 AM
What's "a lower price?" B-level prospects as opposed to the A-level prospects other teams are asking for? I don't see how that's worth parting with a part of the bullpen that has been huge this year.

Right. Our farm system at this point is not as good as it was last year and it might be a good idea to try to get some B-level position prospects. And as far as Farnsworth goes, he has not been a huge part of our bullpen, just one of the many parts, and he is unnecessary at this point.

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 11:04 AM
Farnsworth is a ticking time bomb with his value at an all time high. If we can get something that can further help us this year, or if we can get something greater than what we would possibly receive in compensation picks for him, you have to consider it.

Yankee Tripper
07-28-08, 11:06 AM
Cheesy - what would you want to get for Fransworth and/or Veras?

Unless you are bringing back a starting centerfielder or starting pitcher, I dislike these trade ideas.

Both pitchers have been very good for us this year. I agree Veras makes me nervous with the walks and Kyle makes me nervous based on his whole time in Pinstripes but unless the club is considereably better in some other area for dealing one of these guys I hate the idea.

I don't want prospects for either of these guys.

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 11:07 AM
Cheesy - what would you want to get for Fransworth and/or Veras?

Unless you are bringing back a starting centerfielder or starting pitcher, I dislike these trade ideas.

Both pitchers have been very good for us this year. I agree Veras makes me nervous with the walks and Kyle makes me nervous based on his whole time in Pinstripes but unless the club is considereably better in some other area for dealing one of these guys I hate the idea.

I don't want prospects for either of these guys.

That's why I said Cashman should shop them around. If he gets some decent trade offers, than why not trade them? If not, than keep them. It just frustrates me that I haven't heard anything from mlbtraderumors or Buster Olney or any of the usual places that Cashman is interested in dealing Farnsworth or Veras.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:07 AM
Right. Our farm system at this point is not as good as it was last year and it might be a good idea to try to get some B-level position prospects. And you can do this through the draft just as easy. You don't trade for B-level, filler talent.


And as far as Farnsworth goes, he has not been a huge part of our bullpen, just one of the many parts, and he is unnecessary at this point.Have you been watching the Yankees the last month? He hasn't allowed a run since June 22nd, and had a 28 batter streak in which he didn't allow a hit. (That's a freaking no-hitter if he's a starter, and in some respects, is even more impressive than a no-hitter.) How has he not been a "huge part of the bullpen?"

NelsonMuntz
07-28-08, 11:08 AM
Hurry up and trade Farnsworth and Veras before they help us win another game.

Seriously, we got a good thing going on with this current bullpen. I wouldn't mess with it until the offseason.

YankeePride1967
07-28-08, 11:08 AM
Trading away players we need in a pennant race makes no sense.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:09 AM
It just frustrates me that I haven't heard anything from mlbtraderumors or Buster Olney or any of the usual places that Cashman is interested in dealing Farnsworth or Veras.You really think that given their success, Cashman wants Farnsy and Veras to hear they're being shopped around?

BroadwayBomber55
07-28-08, 11:09 AM
Cheesy - what would you want to get for Fransworth and/or Veras?

Unless you are bringing back a starting centerfielder or starting pitcher, I dislike these trade ideas.

Both pitchers have been very good for us this year. I agree Veras makes me nervous with the walks and Kyle makes me nervous based on his whole time in Pinstripes but unless the club is considereably better in some other area for dealing one of these guys I hate the idea.

I don't want prospects for either of these guys.
Ditto. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-28-08, 11:09 AM
That's why I said Cashman should shop them around. If he gets some decent trade offers, than why not trade them? If not, than keep them. It just frustrates me that I haven't heard anything from mlbtraderumors or Buster Olney or any of the usual places that Cashman is interested in dealing Farnsworth or Veras.

I will say that Cashman has been able to operate under the radar on a lot of stuff over the years. I don't think Veras or Farnsworth is going anywhere, but just b/c you haven't heard anything doesn't mean they haven't been discussed.

themgmt
07-28-08, 11:09 AM
Won't they get picks for Farnsworth when he walks? Veras is cheap and good protection next year in case any reliever falters or gets injured for a while. I think Melancon will take Farnsworth's spot in the Pen next year. Sanchez will probably take Giese's spot and Veras can be the long reliever, how sick would that be?

I would sell high on Bruney, he throws gas and had a great start to the season.

Rivera
Marte
Melancon
Sanchez
Edwar
Robertson
Veras

So trading Farnsworth isn't a bad idea, if they can get something good for him. I'd hold on to Veras since he's cheap and pitching just as well. He can also be a part of the bullpen picture next year.

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 11:10 AM
And you can do this through the draft just as easy. You don't trade for B-level, filler talent.

Sure, but what if Cashman can get an offer he likes instead of just sitting on his hands doing nothing?


Have you been watching the Yankees the last month? He hasn't allowed a run since June 22nd, and had a 28 batter streak in which he didn't allow a hit. How has he not been a "huge part of the bullpen?"

He's coming off the best stretch of his career and is unlikely to be any better than he's been over the last month, and he's the worst pitcher in our bullpen statistically. Lefties are DESTROYING him. We don't need him, plain and simple.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:11 AM
Won't they get picks for Farnsworth when he walks? That was my next point... surely, after this year's performance, he'll comand draft picks in return for simply letting him become a free agent after this season.

Brick Tamland
07-28-08, 11:11 AM
I wouldn't trade either of them. Farnsworth is Farnsworth but he's had some very good innings lately, maybe Girardi has enstilled the type of confidence in him that he needed to succeed. He's been a big part of the bullpen logging 43 innings which have by in large, been good innings.

Veras has logged a lot of time too, 33 innings as has been in large measure good in those outings.

The strength of this bullpen comes from not overworking guys, and bringing that confidence level up. These guys are feeding off of each other. I don't want to break that up just get some depth in the minors.

I know the farm is light in terms of position player prospects but I don't want to move important parts of the 'pen to get somebody else's 20 AA player who's 2 years out in terms of making it to the big leagues if at all.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-28-08, 11:11 AM
Won't they get picks for Farnsworth when he walks? Veras is cheap and good protection next year in case any reliever falters or gets injured for a while. I think Melancon will take Farnsworth's spot in the Pen next year. Sanchez will probably take Giese's spot and Veras can be the long reliever, how sick would that be?

I would sell high on Bruney, he throws gas and had a great start to the season.

Rivera
Marte
Melancon
Sanchez
Edwar
Robertson
Veras

I don't think you can "sell high" on Bruney until he pitches effectively again, and I think Sanchez is going to need more time in the minors until he is ready next year. That said, you can also add Cox into the mix -- we are going to be stocked in the bullpen for a while. I wouldn't mind trading Veras or someone else in the offseason if it helps fill a need.

Tehasguard
07-28-08, 11:12 AM
Ditto. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Actually, If it ain't broke, then don't make it broke.

:D

walesave
07-28-08, 11:12 AM
I am not adverse to the idea of a trade but in response to your question, "is it really necessary to keep 5 viable set-up men in the bullpen?", the answer is yes. Keep in mind, not counting the long man (Giese), the closer (Mo), and the lefty specialist (Marte) the number of true set-up men is four...Veras, Farns, Edwar, and Robertson. There isn't a starter on whom you can rely to go beyond six innings so you need every one of them. I believe one of the main reasons the bullpen has been so good recently is due to Girardi's ability to balance the workload. If you trade a set-up man you'll have to replace him.

Zimmer's Helmet
07-28-08, 11:13 AM
No way should the Yankees trade or even consider trading Veras; he has simply been too valuable to the success of the bullpen.

In regards to Farnsworth, it is doubtful that the Yankees would be able to acquire anything of more value than the two draft picks they stand to gain by letting him walk away as a free agent at the end of the season.

I'm sure that if Cashman were blown away with an offer for Farnsworth, he would have already pulled the trigger.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:13 AM
Sure, but what if Cashman can get an offer he likes instead of just sitting on his hands doing nothing? (1) How do you know he isn't listening to offers? (2) It's a large assumption to make that teams are willing to part with good prospects for a bullpen rental.


He's coming off the best stretch of his career and is unlikely to be any better than he's been over the last month, and he's the worst pitcher in our bullpen statistically. Lefties are DESTROYING him. We don't need him, plain and simple.Hand Ramirez have teamed up to give us the best bullpen in baseball. In the middle of playoff run, you want to break up the best part of our bullpen?

Again, if you let him walk at the end of the year, you're probably going to get draft picks anyway. I'm sure those draft picks would be just as comparable to anything Farnsworth would bring from a trade.

themgmt
07-28-08, 11:13 AM
Actually there is probably a good market for both Bruney and Farnsworth right now. I think the Cardinals would trade for either of them with their bull pen woes. I wouldn't rush to a deal though, I'd only make a deal if they got something really nice. I'd try to move Bruney first though.

Dannman103
07-28-08, 11:13 AM
No such thing as having too many good arms in the bullpen. And Farnsworth should net us a draft pick at the end of the season, right?

themgmt
07-28-08, 11:14 AM
I don't think you can "sell high" on Bruney until he pitches effectively again, and I think Sanchez is going to need more time in the minors until he is ready next year. That said, you can also add Cox into the mix -- we are going to be stocked in the bullpen for a while. I wouldn't mind trading Veras or someone else in the offseason if it helps fill a need.

I was talking about the bull pen next year. Sanchez is still pitching in the GCL

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:14 AM
Actually there is probably a good market for both Bruney and Farnsworth right now. I think the Cardinals would trade for either of them with their bull pen woes.Ok, fine. What are you going to get in return? Little to nothing, I would guess.

Dannman103
07-28-08, 11:15 AM
No way should the Yankees trade or even consider trading Veras; he has simply been too valuable to the success of the bullpen.


Agreed. And at only 27, he could still improve with continued consistent use. Certainly, he's made major strides from last season to this one.

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 11:17 AM
(1) How do you know he isn't listening to offers? (2) It's a large assumption to make that teams are willing to part with good prospects for a bullpen rental.

How do we know that Cashman isn't trying to trade Joba Chamberlain for Miguel Tejada? I'm going off of the fact that it's been mentioned several times in the usual trade rumors sources that teams are interested in relievers, yet there's been no mention of Farnsworth or Veras.


Hand Ramirez have teamed up to give us the best bullpen in baseball. In the middle of playoff run, you want to break up the best part of our bullpen?

Why are you ignoring the overall stats? I'll say it again, this was the BEST stretch of his entire career and the chances he manages to do this again are highly, HIGHLY unlikely. He is THE weakest link in our bullpen.


Again, if you let him walk at the end of the year, you're probably going to get draft picks anyway. I'm sure those draft picks would be just as comparable to anything Farnsworth would bring from a trade.

Maybe, maybe not.

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 11:17 AM
Ok, fine. What are you going to get in return? Little to nothing, I would guess.
And how do you know this when Cashman hasn't even bothered trying to shop either?

Zimmer's Helmet
07-28-08, 11:17 AM
No such thing as having too many good arms in the bullpen. And Farnsworth should net us a draft pick at the end of the season, right?

I'm not sure that he qualifies as a Type A free agent; but if he does; we're looking at two draft picks.

It's worth mentioning that when the Yankees let Tom Gordon walk away; they parlayed the two picks that they received as compensation into Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy. I'm not saying that they'll get as lucky next time around with Farnsworth, but you never know...

My point is that it's doubtful that the Yankees can receive that kind of potential talent by simply trading Farnsy. I'd rather take the picks.

hatfieldms
07-28-08, 11:18 AM
I don't think either of the guys should be traded. The bullpen is actually a strength for this team right now, so I see no need messing with it.

Dannman103
07-28-08, 11:19 AM
I'm not sure that he qualifies as a Type A free agent; but if he does; we're looking at two draft picks.

It's worth mentioning that when the Yankees let Tom Gordon walk away; they parlayed the two picks that they received as compensation into Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy. I'm not saying that they'll get as lucky next time around with Farnsworth, but you never know...

My point is that it's doubtful that the Yankees can receive that kind of potential talent by simply trading Farnsy. I'd rather take the picks.

I just don't see the purpose of breaking up what has been a very solid bullpen over the last couple months. Who knows what might happen the rest of the way with injuries as well.

themgmt
07-28-08, 11:19 AM
Worth taking a look. If you can get some decent prospects for Bruney (who probably has no role next year), it's a good deal to make. The same exact thing could be said for Veras but I like his stuff better than Bruney's. I'd have to get something significant for Farnsworth considering the picks the Yankees would get if they just held on to him. If a team is desperate, it could be worthwhile.

simmy886
07-28-08, 11:21 AM
Sure, but what if Cashman can get an offer he likes instead of just sitting on his hands doing nothing?

Are you kidding me? Just because you don't read something on MLBtraderumors doesn't mean it isn't happening. This is his job, you don't think he spends every moment of his work day thinking up ways to improve the team?
Personally I totally agree about trading Farnsworth. I appreciate what he's given us the past couple of months but I believe his value has peaked and the emergence of other pitchers can let us deal from strength. Of course if we can't get something to replace a) the value of his draft picks AND b) the value of his 2008 statistics and reasonable projections for the rest of this year, then it isn't worth it.
And on that note, I can most definitely see teams being skeptical of Farnsworth's "relief no hitter" and not willing to pay the steep above price of a + b. But I am more than confident in Cashman that he is doing due diligence, and even if I wasn't, I would at least give him the benefit of the doubt that he cares about his job and wants the team to be good as opposed to "doing nothing."

BTW I wouldn't trade Veras because I don't think his value has close to peaked, to me there is still a shot he can be a potential closer down the line, or at least a top notch set up man and with his current contract it would be more than just dealing from depth to help the team in the short term or add prospects... you would be hurting the future, imo.

Toaderly
07-28-08, 11:21 AM
http://www.nomaas.org/images/cashwetrust.jpg

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 11:23 AM
Are you kidding me? Just because you don't read something on MLBtraderumors doesn't mean it isn't happening. This is his job, you don't think he spends every moment of his work day thinking up ways to improve the team?
Personally I totally agree about trading Farnsworth. I appreciate what he's given us the past couple of months but I believe his value has peaked and the emergence of other pitchers can let us deal from strength. Of course if we can't get something to replace a) the value of his draft picks AND b) the value of his 2008 statistics and reasonable projections for the rest of this year, then it isn't worth it.
And on that note, I can most definitely see teams being skeptical of Farnsworth's "relief no hitter" and not willing to offer that much. But I am more than confident in Cashman that he is doing due diligence, and even if I wasn't, I would at least give him the benefit of the doubt that he cares about his job and wants the team to be good as opposed to "doing nothing."

BTW I wouldn't trade Veras because I don't think his value has close to peaked, to me there is still a shot he can be a potential closer down the line, or at least a top notch set up man and with his current contract it would be more than just dealing from depth to help the team in the short term or add prospects... you would be hurting the future, imo.

Okay, fine. So let's change the title to "Should Cashman try to deal Farnsworth/Veras?"

And as far as Veras goes, there's definitely a shot he can be a good set-up man for us in the long term, but I'm just saying, we have a LOT of good pieces in the bullpen and it might be worth our time to try to get something good for one of them.

Brick Tamland
07-28-08, 11:24 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/inning_summary.cgi?team_id=NYY&year_game=2008

The Yankees are 44-1 when leading after 6 innings. I'm pretty sure Farnsworth and Veras have been a big part of those innings, and those wins. Why would you mess with success like that?

pleasepassthesoup
07-28-08, 11:26 AM
With Bruney coming back soon, I would absolutely look to trade Farnsworth. While he hasn't been giving up hits lately, his control has still been suspect (he's still been walking around 4.5 per 9 even during his hot streak) and I really think the difference between he and Bruney is negligable. I would rather have a longman (Geise) than to have 7 short relievers, so I'd have to get rid of either Farnsworth or Bruney. Since they'll probably perform similarly, I'd trade Farnsworth due to him probably being overvalued by the league at this point and unlikely to continue his performance. Might as well see what we can get for him while we can.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:29 AM
How do we know that Cashman isn't trying to trade Joba Chamberlain for Miguel Tejada?:giveup:


I'm going off of the fact that it's been mentioned several times in the usual trade rumors sources that teams are interested in relievers, yet there's been no mention of Farnsworth or Veras.Sorry. That does not mean they haven't been discussed. Not every phone call between GM's is reported, whether you believe that or not.




Why are you ignoring the overall stats? I'll say it again, this was the BEST stretch of his entire career and the chances he manages to do this again are highly, HIGHLY unlikely. He is THE weakest link in our bullpen.You're barking up the wrong tree, here. I'm usually the first one to suggest looking at someone's overall performance. But you still haven't answered the larger question... why, when Farnsworth has been so good for us this year, are you willing to trade him for marginal prospects to fill the minor league system? In the middle of a playoff run, he and Ramirez have been our best relievers, and now you want to break that up for B-level prospects? Why?




Maybe, maybe not.Um, more than likely, he will command draft picks, at least one. That really isn't that hard to imagine. And more than likely, you'll get a better draft pick than talent in return from a trade.

themgmt
07-28-08, 11:32 AM
Side note: why on earth is Melancon still in AA? He is mowing down hitters and pitching 2-3 innings at a time. I hope he gets the call to AAA in August and is one of the September call ups.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mark%20Melancon&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453343

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-28-08, 11:32 AM
I wonder if the White Sox would be willing to give up Thome.

JeffWeaverFan
07-28-08, 11:33 AM
You don't know that Cash isn't trying to trade either of them. I recommended we trade Kyle last week. I still feel it's the wise move.
I'd rather keep him and get the picks.

I like Veras as a pitcher. The problem is I don't like him as our 7th inning guy as he's probably the pitcher I would least trust in a big spot (not including our longman Geise). I mean, if you think about it, Yankees up by 1 run in the 8th inning, besides Mo who do you trust most to least? I'd probably go Edwar, Farnsworth (I think he's earned it), Marte (vs. leftys), Robertson, Veras. It's really not a knock on Veras, but with this incredibly strong pen, I feel he might be our worst setup man, but he's used as our 3rd best after Mo and Farnsworth.

JeffWeaverFan
07-28-08, 11:34 AM
Side note: why on earth is Melancon still in AA? He is mowing down hitters and pitching 2-3 innings at a time. I hope he gets the call to AAA in August and is one of the September call ups.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mark%20Melancon&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453343
I think they want to take it slow with him and with the pen being as good as it is, don't feel he's needed this year. I could see him getting a cup of coffee in September, and I'd bet he'll make the team out of ST next year.

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 11:34 AM
Side note: why on earth is Melancon still in AA? He is mowing down hitters and pitching 2-3 innings at a time. I hope he gets the call to AAA in August and is one of the September call ups.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mark%20Melancon&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453343

The organization is working on his changeup down there, they don't want to rush him. I think they really do think he's going to be our future closer.

And to TheYankee, I feel like that argument is going nowhere fast, so forget it. I feel you got suckered in by ESPN into thinking that Farnsworth has been "a major piece of our bullpen" when he hasn't been any better than any of the other relievers.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-28-08, 11:35 AM
Side note: why on earth is Melancon still in AA? He is mowing down hitters and pitching 2-3 innings at a time. I hope he gets the call to AAA in August and is one of the September call ups.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mark%20Melancon&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453343

I've read (but have no idea whether it is true) that Melancon will not pitch up here this year b/c they are watching his innings in the first year after surgery and don't want to rush him.

Snatch Catch
07-28-08, 11:36 AM
Why didn't Cashman eat dinner last night?

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:37 AM
Why didn't Cashman eat dinner last night?Because it wasn't reported on mlbtraderumors.com.

themgmt
07-28-08, 11:38 AM
I didn't want him to be promoted to the majors now, I'm wondering why he's not facing AAA hitters rather than embarrassing AA hitters.

themgmt
07-28-08, 11:42 AM
Albaladejo is another guy that could be a part of the pen equation or traded in the off season.

Cashman has done really well with getting all of these arms.

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 11:42 AM
Britton too.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-28-08, 11:44 AM
Britton too.

If he has any value, they should trade him. They don't seem inclined to use him.

Jace
07-28-08, 11:44 AM
Yeah i think its ridiculous to assume that if something hasn't been reported on a mediocre rumor site, that it hasn't happened. Thats the founding assumption for this thread...

JohnnyDamonfan
07-28-08, 11:45 AM
Because Cashman is a smart buisness man. Farnsworth and Veras have been real good for us. Unless we get a deal that completely WOW's us Farns and Veras aren't going anywhere. When you have someone on our team who's helping us then you keep them unless we can find/trade a bullpen guy who can be just as successful as Veras and or Farns. Let Farns walk this off season and pick up the draft picks. I forget do we get any picks for Abreu if we let him walk?

Donpaulbernmo
07-28-08, 11:46 AM
Side note but I find it amusing that if you google "Kyle Farsnworth", you get a very amusing picture or two :D

http://reid.mlblogs.com/scoreboard_26_6/images/lg_fight_ap.jpg

BTW we can never have enough good relievers.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:47 AM
Let Farns walk this off season and pick up the draft picks. I forget do we get any picks for Abreu if we let him walk?Absolutely... we'd get two easily for Abreu.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:49 AM
Side note but I find it amusing that if you google "Kyle Farsnworth", you get a very amusing picture or two :D

http://reid.mlblogs.com/scoreboard_26_6/images/lg_fight_ap.jpg

BTW we can never have enough good relievers.That's fantastic. :p

Jace
07-28-08, 11:50 AM
Absolutely... we'd get two easily for Abreu.

You don't know that, he could be Type B. In any case, he has to decline arbitration- which he probably will, but isn't a sure thing (he's not getting 16 mil per year anywhere else). Im not sure the Yankees offer it because they have Nady now, unless they get him to agree to decline it

TheYankee
07-28-08, 11:52 AM
You don't know that, he could be Type B. In any case, he has to decline arbitration- which he probably will, but isn't a sure thing (he's not getting 16 mil per year anywhere else). Im not sure the Yankees offer it because they have Nady now, unless they get him to agree to decline itI really think he'll be type A... maybe you're right though.

themgmt
07-28-08, 11:56 AM
Tigers might be interested in Farnsworth too.

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 11:57 AM
Tigers might be interested in Farnsworth too.

The Yanks would never trade him to a team that may compete with them for the WC. The Brewers and Cubs can use him though.

Zimmer's Helmet
07-28-08, 12:02 PM
The Yanks would never trade him to a team that may compete with them for the WC. The Brewers and Cubs can use him though.

A Farnsworth-Piniella meltdown would be priceless. :)

Seriously, I would rather keep Farnsy and take the draft picks at the end of the season.

Donpaulbernmo
07-28-08, 12:03 PM
I really think he'll be type A... maybe you're right though.

i agree. considering that Rowand, Hunter, and Bradley were Type A this past offseason, I'd say that Bobby is gonna be Type A unless a bunch of OFs have spectacular years and raise the bar too high for Bobby.

themgmt
07-28-08, 12:03 PM
I think they wouldn't have a problem with that if they could get something good.

I doubt Cashman is going to rock the boat though and just take the picks. Unless some team gets really desperate on the last day and over pays

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-28-08, 01:05 PM
The Yanks would never trade him to a team that may compete with them for the WC. The Brewers and Cubs can use him though.

I'm really not worried Farnsworth is doing to shut us down. I also doubt Detroit comes near the playoffs, their SP is in shambles.

teknetic
07-28-08, 01:14 PM
I don't really know who we can get from Detroit, but Zumaya's injured again

Melancon had another stellar outing 3IP/4K.

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 01:16 PM
I'm really not worried Farnsworth is doing to shut us down. I also doubt Detroit comes near the playoffs, their SP is in shambles.

Farnsworth shutting us down has nothing to do with anything. Farnsworth helping another WC team in the AL is the issue. But you said you are not worried about Detroit, so your stance is obviously different than mine. I think they'll give us the biggest run for the money when all is said and done. TB will be 5 GB of a playoff slot by the end of August.

False1
07-28-08, 01:26 PM
I wonder if the White Sox would be willing to give up Thome.I doubt it. He's doing just fine for them and they're in first place in the Central. They'd have to be overwhelmed I'd imagine. And for the markup we'd pay for him in terms of talent I don't think he'd be worth it considering the current logjam at DH and it's only gonna get worse.

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-28-08, 01:33 PM
I doubt it. He's doing just fine for them and they're in first place in the Central. They'd have to be overwhelmed I'd imagine. And for the markup we'd pay for him in terms of talent I don't think he'd be worth it considering the current logjam at DH and it's only gonna get worse.

What logjam at DH?

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 01:34 PM
What logjam at DH?

You know, the one that has us starting Damon at DH for the near future.

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-28-08, 01:35 PM
You know, the one that has us starting Damon at DH for the near future.

Damon needs to be the starting CFer.

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 01:38 PM
Damon needs to be the starting CFer.

I have no problem with that, so long as the lineup improvement is worth more than the defensive downgrade. But there is no way that the ChiSox would value a middle reliever over their #3/4 hitter.

False1
07-28-08, 01:39 PM
Damon needs to be the starting CFer.I actually agree with that as long as he doesn't have injuries that would exacerbate the concerns around his ability to man the position. As long as he still has range that exceeds Melky's, I'd take his arm in CF to get the massive upgrade in OPS from anyone that would start at DH over Melky. At least with certain pitchers that induce more GB outs.

That said, I think our opinion is unpopular and it won't happen. Thus - logjam at DH. If Mastui comes back this year, we have Thome or Matsui on the bench. And next year, we'd have a big issue unless Thome's contract is up.

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-28-08, 01:39 PM
I have no problem with that, so long as the lineup improvement is worth more than the defensive downgrade. But there is no way that the ChiSox would value a middle reliever over their #3/4 hitter.

Probably, we need a DH/1B/OFer

keg411
07-28-08, 01:40 PM
If other teams call Cashman offering value for any of the extra bullpen guys, then you make a trade; but you don't just start calling and offering them to teams who need bullpen help. Let the teams come to Cashman.

However, right now the Yankees are buyers and they have a great bullpen. You just don't mess with that unless you are blown away with an offer.

MTYankee23
07-28-08, 01:41 PM
Damon needs to be the starting CFer.

The position we overpayed him to play. Would make sense. Hasn't Nady also played CF before?

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-28-08, 01:41 PM
I actually agree with that as long as he doesn't have injuries that would exacerbate the concerns around his ability to man the position. As long as he still has range that exceeds Melky's, I'd take his arm in CF to get the massive upgrade in OPS from anyone that would start at DH over Melky. At least with certain pitchers that induce more GB outs.

That said, I think our opinion is unpopular and it won't happen. Thus - logjam at DH. If Mastui comes back this year, we have Thome or Matsui on the bench. And next year, we'd have a big issue unless Thome's contract is up.

You'd have to know Matsui and Posada aren't coming back to trade for someone like Thome, a guy who is a DH only. Thome's contract is up.

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-28-08, 01:42 PM
The position we overpayed him to play. Would make sense. Hasn't Nady also played CF before?

It's not his fault, he's played a stellar LF.

Metroidman
07-28-08, 01:42 PM
Why would the White Sox, A team with arguably the top 2 bullpen in the AL, trade for Pen help?

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 01:43 PM
Why would the White Sox, A team with arguably the top 2 bullpen in the AL, trade for Pen help?
Linebrink went on the DL.

yankeeman61
07-28-08, 01:44 PM
My initial reaction to the thread title was, "Are you insane?" But in theory, it's always good to sell high especially with a guy like Farns who can be quite "exciting". So it's a valid point to bring up. Nevertheless with the status of the starting pitching I don't think you can have enough bullpen arms. Girardi has managed these guys very well and I think it's best to hold on to everyone right now. Let's say you trade Farnsworth for picks. Then Veras comes up with a sore elbow and has to be shut down. Edwar gets more exposure then goes into a gopher ball phase like he's done in the past. Also there's no guarantee Bruney will come back as strong as he was before the injury. Hopefully none of these things happen, but that's why you stockpile pitching...just in case. The Yanks are poised to overtake Boston and Tampa, something many of us did not anticipate would happen. The Yanks better hang onto the arms for the dog days.

MTYankee23
07-28-08, 01:44 PM
It's not his fault, he's played a stellar LF.

Agreed, in a way, we got lucky with that one.

themgmt
07-28-08, 01:45 PM
They're bullpen has been getting manhandled of late. I think their season era has jumped a half run in the past 3 weeks. Linebrink is on the DL. Dotel plays with fire but is doing ok. Their bullpen looked a lot better in June, they may be wearing down

NelsonMuntz
07-28-08, 02:04 PM
Again, if you let him walk at the end of the year, you're probably going to get draft picks anyway. I'm sure those draft picks would be just as comparable to anything Farnsworth would bring from a trade.
Exactly. Not to mention, Girardi (right, wrong or otherwise) seems to be very committed to Farnsworth as our 8th inning guy. I think Cash would have to be blown away with an offer to consider trading Kyle right now.

TheYankee
07-28-08, 02:09 PM
Exactly. Not to mention, Girardi (right, wrong or otherwise) seems to be very committed to Farnsworth as our 8th inning guy. I think Cash would have to be blown away with an offer to consider trading Kyle right now.Exactly. Trading away your setup guy at this point in the year, while in the thick of a playoff run, is silly.

ajra21
07-28-08, 02:10 PM
Linebrink went on the DL.

when, what with, how long?

simmy886
07-28-08, 02:17 PM
Probably, we need a DH/1B/OFer

Imagine how much more we would need such a player without Nady securing a corner OF position for this year and next.

primetime714
07-28-08, 02:31 PM
If there is a good deal out there for Veras I'd deal him. He's been great, but if we can get a good piece in return for him I wouldn't hesitate.

Let's just make sure to get more than a Wilson Betemit type.

If we don't trade Veras I do think it would make a lot of sense to get rid of a guy like Britton who could pitch in pretty much any ML bullpen other than ours. I'd trade him for a lower level positional prospect.

iWant27
07-28-08, 02:32 PM
I havent read any posts on the thread . But why would yankees trade them . Bullpen has been a strength for the yankees recently , why break it ?

roblyo33
07-28-08, 02:39 PM
Trading away players we need in a pennant race makes no sense.

Couldn't agree more. Have you guys/gals ever heard of injuries???

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 02:40 PM
This idea is definitely not as crazy as most of you are making it to be.

roblyo33
07-28-08, 02:45 PM
This idea is definitely not as crazy as most of you are making it to be.

That's your opnion...........which you are entitled to, of course.....but I don't think we are all crazy, either.

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 02:46 PM
That's your opnion...........which you are entitled to, of course.....but I don't think we are all crazy, either.

No, you are most certainly not.

Ynkcpt23
07-28-08, 02:48 PM
This idea is definitely not as crazy as most of you are making it to be.

No, it's not crazy. Neither of those guys are untradeable. I don't think you mess with the chemistry of what could be the strongest part of our team, though.

JL25and3
07-28-08, 02:49 PM
Even I wouldn't trade either of them, despite my feelings that the Yankees should have swapped pitching depth for position depth in the past. The Yankee offense has had holes all year, and still does; they've been winning primarily on the strength of their pitching. I wouldn't want to weaken that while they've still got a chance to win.

The offseason might be a different story, even assuming Farnsworth walks. Relief pitchers tend to be inconsistent from one year to the next, so there's the chance to sell high. Plus, they've still got a bunch of guys in the minors to fill out a bullpen with.

Farnsworth qualified as a B free agent last year, and there's no way to know whether this year will boost him to A status. At this point, figure on a supplemental pick only. And remember, you have to offer arbitration for that, which means you have to be OK with it if he accepts.

MTYankee23
07-28-08, 02:49 PM
This idea is definitely not as crazy as most of you are making it to be.

Not even close to as crazy as it's being made out to be. Since May 29th (When Joba left the pen). Farnsworth has the worst FIP ERA in the bullpen, and Veras was 3rd worst (With recently departed LaTroy Hawkins in between them). This would be considered selling high on both of them.

The obvious caveat here though being that everyone hates Chris (Britton) and Bruney isn't necessarily a sure bet to recover his early season form. Add that to the fact that JB Cox seems to have hit the post-TJ wall.

You'd have to get something really good, since Veras is cheap and cost controlled, and Farnsworth could bring back at least a sandwich pick.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-28-08, 02:49 PM
This idea is definitely not as crazy as most of you are making it to be.

Unless we are somehow getting back a good starting pitcher, I don't think it would make us better

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 02:51 PM
Unless we are somehow getting back a good starting pitcher, I don't think it would make us better

How about if I told you we'd remain status quo for the year and improve our chances next year.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-28-08, 02:55 PM
Even I wouldn't trade either of them, despite my feelings that the Yankees should have swapped pitching depth for position depth in the past. The Yankee offense has had holes all year, and still does; they've been winning primarily on the strength of their pitching. I wouldn't want to weaken that while they've still got a chance to win.

The offseason might be a different story, even assuming Farnsworth walks. Relief pitchers tend to be inconsistent from one year to the next, so there's the chance to sell high. Plus, they've still got a bunch of guys in the minors to fill out a bullpen with.

Farnsworth qualified as a B free agent last year, and there's no way to know whether this year will boost him to A status. At this point, figure on a supplemental pick only. And remember, you have to offer arbitration for that, which means you have to be OK with it if he accepts.

I think Kyle would want, and can do better than a one year deal, so I'd be OK with the possibility of arbitration. Even a supplemental pick, given our ability to go over slot, has a lot of value

Hobie
07-28-08, 02:58 PM
How about if I told you we'd remain status quo for the year and improve our chances next year.

Similar to if he helped the BP this year and then walked as a Type A FA?

I'd rather get the picks and ride the hot hand.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-28-08, 02:58 PM
How about if I told you we'd remain status quo for the year and improve our chances next year.

I don't think I'd take the risk on the pen... that said, it depends on what you can get back. I could be convinced depending on the return

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 03:02 PM
I don't think I'd take the risk on the pen... that said, it depends on what you can get back. I could be convinced depending on the return

The truth is, the Nationals f'd up the market. They accepted a marginal player for a quality, cost-controlled reliever.

primetime714
07-28-08, 03:11 PM
The thing is with Marte in the fold and Bruney coming back soon, there really isn't a whole lot of risk involved. Especially when we have the likes of Cox, Strickland, and Britton waiting in AAA.

If we can get another bat, another starter, or some promising prospects it might make sense to deal from an area where we have an extraordinary amount of depth and quality.

I'd probably keep Farnsworth because we'll get picks for him next year. However it might be a good opportunity to turn the likes of Veras or Edwar into something more valuable.

I mean last year with less depth in our bullpen we traded Proctor for Betemit.

The only guys in our bullpen that can't be replaced from within are Mariano and Marte (because we have no lefties).

The question is who do/should we trade these guys for? Would a C like Laird make sense? Would that be enough, too much?

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 03:14 PM
Laird would definitely make sense, but we'd have to definitely add players to the mix for it to work for them.

primetime714
07-28-08, 03:15 PM
The truth is, the Nationals f'd up the market. They accepted a marginal player for a quality, cost-controlled reliever.

Yea that was really dumb on their part. They got like nothing back for Rauch who was having a great year.

JL25and3
07-28-08, 03:23 PM
The truth is, the Nationals f'd up the market. They accepted a marginal player for a quality, cost-controlled reliever.I don't know if they f'd up the market or if they just f'd up. If a team wants to trade for pitching and they decide to use that as a benchmark, they're not going to find many takers. Jim Bowden, maybe Ed Wade, and that's about it.

MTYankee23
07-28-08, 03:25 PM
Laird would definitely make sense, but we'd have to definitely add players to the mix for it to work for them.

I'd be interested to see what the asking price is on Laird and Salty.

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 03:26 PM
I'd be interested to see what the asking price is on Laird and Salty.

I "offered" IPK and Cox the other day for Salty.

MTYankee23
07-28-08, 03:27 PM
I "offered" IPK and Cox the other day for Salty.

Cox isn't helping that right now. I wonder if IPK and Sanchez would interest them.

Cheesyhoboe
07-28-08, 03:28 PM
Cox isn't helping that right now. I wonder if IPK and Sanchez would interest them.

Kevin Goldstein said the other day that an offer of IPK and Edwar would likely be too much for Salty. I'd say an offer of IPK and Bruney could probably get it done, but I'm kinda down on Salty right now.

MTYankee23
07-28-08, 03:32 PM
Kevin Goldstein said the other day that an offer of IPK and Edwar would likely be too much for Salty. I'd say an offer of IPK and Bruney could probably get it done, but I'm kinda down on Salty right now.

I'd love to buy low on him. Much of his troubles this year seem to be coming from the fact that he's dreadful as a right handed hitter. As a Yankee, he'd never have to face lefties (Molina this year, Posada the next couple, and then Montero/Romine).

THEBOSS84
07-28-08, 03:32 PM
The question is: who has more of a potential impact on the Yankees 2008 season, IPK or Salty?

MTYankee23
07-28-08, 03:34 PM
The question is: who has more of a potential impact on the Yankees 2008 season, IPK or Salty?

Salty, with his career .800 OPS vs. RHP, would be an enormous upgrade over Molina. Kennedy wouldn't be that big of an upgrade every 5th day over Aceves, Horne, or Washburn.

primetime714
07-28-08, 03:35 PM
The question is: who has more of a potential impact on the Yankees 2008 season, IPK or Salty?

Yea that's what I'm torn on. I think Salty would make more sense for the future of this team though. This year he'd have to pick it up at the plate.

One thing I am concerned about with Salty is his defense. He doesn't seem to be great behind the plate.

It'd be a tough call for me. I'd probably do it though.

themgmt
07-28-08, 03:37 PM
I wouldn't trade IPK straight up for Saltalamacchia. I might be the only one, and of course Cashman.

MTYankee23
07-28-08, 03:37 PM
Yea that's what I'm torn on. I think Salty would make more sense for the future of this team though. This year he'd have to pick it up at the plate.

One thing I am concerned about with Salty is his defense. He doesn't seem to be great behind the plate.

It'd be a tough call for me. I'd probably do it though.

Offensively, his struggles seem to be a platoon issue.

Defensively, his CERA isn't appreciably different than any other catcher Texas has.

scooterfan
07-28-08, 03:42 PM
The question is: who has more of a potential impact on the Yankees 2008 season, IPK or Salty?

This question could be answered by Kennedy's next start for Scranton. If he's dominant again, I'd expect him to get the call to replace Ponson (or Rasner). If/when Washburn is acquired, he can replace the other one.

The injuries to the starting pitching this year is a killer - with Wang, Hughes, Horne and Marquez all on the DL currently, there is no major-league-ready starting depth at AAA apart from Kennedy and Aceves.

brosiusbuddy
07-28-08, 03:47 PM
That's why I said Cashman should shop them around. If he gets some decent trade offers, than why not trade them? If not, than keep them. It just frustrates me that I haven't heard anything from mlbtraderumors or Buster Olney or any of the usual places that Cashman is interested in dealing Farnsworth or Veras.

Announcing a possible deal, especially with a guy like Farns who seems to let things go to his head, would be a bad idea not worth the risk of effecting either pitchers' on field performance.

Snatch Catch
07-28-08, 03:49 PM
Why isn't Cashman driving his car right now?

primetime714
07-28-08, 03:52 PM
Offensively, his struggles seem to be a platoon issue.

Defensively, his CERA isn't appreciably different than any other catcher Texas has.

Offensively you're right his numbers look a lot better hitting left handed, but we actually need more help against left handed pitching. I do still agree he would be a nice offensive upgrade over Molina.

Defensively his CS% is 17%, that's the same as Posada this year. As for his CERA not being much different than any other C on Texas that doesn't fill me with confidence seeing as the Texas pitching staff has been horrible. I understand your point that if the rest of the Texas C's aren't getting that down than Salty probably calls at least a decent game, but it could also mean that all of the Texas C's are not good at calling a game. Also when you consider that Molina is one of the best in the game and there is a noticeably better CERA when he is catching means that Salty would likely be a pretty big defensive downgrade.

I'd give up Kennedy for Salty, but mostly because it makes a lot of sense in the long run. I mean a 23 year old C with good offensive projections is a very valuable commodity. My only concern is if he is good enough defensively to stick at the position. He's passable, but if he doesn't show some improvement he might be a 1B in the future which removes any real value he has as his bat isn't quite good enough to make a big impact there.

Dannman103
07-28-08, 03:54 PM
Offensively you're right his numbers look a lot better hitting left handed, but we actually need more help against left handed pitching. I do still agree he would be a nice offensive upgrade over Molina.

Defensively his CS% is 17%, that's the same as Posada this year. As for his CERA not being much different than any other C on Texas that doesn't fill me with confidence seeing as the Texas pitching staff has been horrible. I understand your point that if the rest of the Texas C's aren't getting that down than Salty probably calls at least a decent game, but it could also mean that all of the Texas C's are not good at calling a game. Also when you consider that Molina is one of the best in the game and there is a noticeably better CERA when he is catching means that Salty would likely be a pretty big defensive downgrade.

I'd give up Kennedy for Salty, but mostly because it makes a lot of sense in the long run. I mean a 23 year old C with good offensive projections is a very valuable commodity. My only concern is if he is good enough defensively to stick at the position. He's passable, but if he doesn't show some improvement he might be a 1B in the future which removes any real value he has as his bat isn't quite good enough to make a big impact there.

If his throwing has been as bad as Posada's this year, and he's not injured, then I doubt he's gonna stick at catcher. And like you said, his offense at first base isn't likely to be as valuable.

themgmt
07-29-08, 06:35 AM
Side note: why on earth is Melancon still in AA? He is mowing down hitters and pitching 2-3 innings at a time. I hope he gets the call to AAA in August and is one of the September call ups.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mark%20Melancon&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453343

Wouldn't you know it... Melancon got promoted a few hours later.

http://riveraveblues.com/2008/07/28/charleston-barely-avoids-getting-no-hit-3412/

Bruney also hit someone in the head and he charged the mound. Add Bruney to the reliever market

PLAYER 7
07-29-08, 04:30 PM
Wouldn't you know it... Melancon got promoted a few hours later.

http://riveraveblues.com/2008/07/28/charleston-barely-avoids-getting-no-hit-3412/

Bruney also hit someone in the head and he charged the mound. Add Bruney to the reliever market

Was it Youkilus younger brother that he whacked?

themgmt
07-30-08, 03:35 PM
Tigers might be interested in Farnsworth too.


I think they wouldn't have a problem with that if they could get something good.

Boom, Farnsworth to the Tigers.

Plus we get Pudge.

27IsNext
07-30-08, 03:36 PM
This should serve as a reminder not to assume what the GM of any team is or isn't trying to do.

Masta Z
07-30-08, 03:37 PM
pudge for farns?

:O whoa.

Snatch Catch
07-30-08, 03:48 PM
Total foolishness.

THEBOSS84
07-30-08, 03:50 PM
I was one of the few who recommended we trade Farns by selling high. Everyone else who bashed me and the others, bashed our boy Cash as well...

walesave
07-30-08, 03:57 PM
Asked and answered, sir!

Snatch Catch
07-30-08, 04:01 PM
I was one of the few who recommended we trade Farns by selling high. Everyone else who bashed me and the others, bashed our boy Cash as well...


The foolishness is the arm-chari GMing saying that he wasn't exploring the market.

Ridiculous.

genius-24
07-30-08, 04:12 PM
Yup prayers are heard. Frans is gonner.

TheYankee
07-30-08, 05:41 PM
But.... but... but!!!! How could this happen? It was on mlbtraderumors.com!!!!!

TheYankee
07-30-08, 05:42 PM
I was one of the few who recommended we trade Farns by selling high. Everyone else who bashed me and the others, bashed our boy Cash as well...The bashing occured when the statement was made that Cash wasn't exploring options because it wasn't appearing on trade rumor sites... it was ridiculous.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-30-08, 06:01 PM
I was one of the few who recommended we trade Farns by selling high. Everyone else who bashed me and the others, bashed our boy Cash as well...

I didn't think they trade Farnsworth... You were right. Of course, I said I was open to it, but I doubted Cash's ability to get something worthwhile in return.

Sorry I doubted you, Brian. Now go turn Igawa into Linecum.

Zimmer's Helmet
07-30-08, 06:08 PM
I didn't think they trade Farnsworth... You were right. Of course, I said I was open to it, but I doubted Cash's ability to get something worthwhile in return.

Sorry I doubted you, Brian. Now go turn Igawa into Linecum.

Exactly. Nobody could have imagined that the Yankees could flip Farnsy for Pudge. I certainly didn't think that this would ever be a possibility.

It's a tribute to Cash that he able to pull this one off and still maintain draft pick value.

Cash has done a heck of a job strengthening this ballclub in the past week.

Cheesyhoboe
07-30-08, 06:10 PM
Hahah, I should've known better than to doubt Ca$h, bash me all you want. In my defense though, it was the Tigers who offered the trade, not Cash who offered it.

Sam18
07-30-08, 06:12 PM
When people start threads like this they need to have their thread starting privileges taken away.

NelsonMuntz
07-30-08, 06:29 PM
lol @ this thread. I'll admit, I didn't think it was very likely.

TheYankee
07-30-08, 06:44 PM
Hahah, I should've known better than to doubt Ca$h, bash me all you want. In my defense though, it was the Tigers who offered the trade, not Cash who offered it.And that's most likely because, as many people suggested, there wasn't much you were going to get for Farnsworth that would make it worth the ball club's while.

Yankee Tripper
07-30-08, 06:49 PM
Cheesy - what would you want to get for Fransworth and/or Veras?

Unless you are bringing back a starting centerfielder or starting pitcher, I dislike these trade ideas.

Both pitchers have been very good for us this year. I agree Veras makes me nervous with the walks and Kyle makes me nervous based on his whole time in Pinstripes but unless the club is considereably better in some other area for dealing one of these guys I hate the idea.

I don't want prospects for either of these guys.

Guess I should have added starting catcher to my list because I love this trade.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-30-08, 06:51 PM
Hahah, I should've known better than to doubt Ca$h, bash me all you want. In my defense though, it was the Tigers who offered the trade, not Cash who offered it.

If you had only put Pavano in the thread title....

themgmt
07-30-08, 08:17 PM
Does anyone think Bruney might be moved, with so many teams in need of pitching? He's out of options I believe so they wouldn't be able to just send him to Scranton for another pitcher if he doesn't pitch well when he's called up. Maybe if they wait until the last minute to call him up, then keep him up when the rosters expand..

False1
07-30-08, 08:25 PM
Today, can we finally stop with all the whining about Cash and the assumptions that he is not working to make trades, is hoarding his prospects, etc? Sheeeesh. What an ironic thread.

Brick Tamland
07-30-08, 08:45 PM
I was against breaking up this bullpen. I do like the trade however. How can you not? Cashman just improved a huge hole in the lineup and the defense of Pudge is awesome.

Ynkcpt23
07-30-08, 09:33 PM
When people start threads like this they need to have their thread starting privileges taken away.

Umm, considering the title of the thread, there is no reason to believe that they didn't have something in mind. Perhaps you should bide your time before rendering your judgment. You look like an idiot at the moment. Sorry. Well no, not really.

NelsonMuntz
07-30-08, 10:15 PM
Umm, considering the title of the thread, there is no reason to believe that they didn't have something in mind. Perhaps you should bide your time before rendering your judgment. You look like an idiot at the moment. Sorry. Well no, not really.
How exactly does Sam look like an idiot? The intent of this thread was to criticize Cashman for making no attempt to trade Farnsworth. The thread title clearly implies as much.

False1
07-30-08, 10:34 PM
How exactly does Sam look like an idiot? The intent of this thread was to criticize Cashman for making no attempt to trade Farnsworth. The thread title clearly implies as much.I agree...

That is such a pet peeve, when posters assume that because trades aren't coming in that Cash isn't "trying" to do anything. Or that Cash is "hording" his prospects. For all we know the guy has had eleventeen hundred calls about Farnsworth, Veras, Hughes, et al. He just waits until he gets trades that make a ton of sense. He's 3 for 3 in the last few days.

walesave
07-31-08, 11:23 AM
I think this thread is perfect because of the irony. If it had been titled 'Should Cashman try to deal Farnsworth/Veras', it likely would have evoked the same level of interest but without the messy 'egg on the face'.