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Bleacher_Creature
07-22-08, 01:40 PM
According to ESPN's Buster Olney (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3500349&name=olney_buster), the Yankees are "taking a serious look at Seattle lefty Jarrod Washburn."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

He pitched pretty good against Boston last night...:dunno:

ppa79
07-22-08, 01:41 PM
Someone pull the trigger already.

Yankee Tripper
07-22-08, 01:42 PM
Washburn is not the answer and we'd have his contract on the book next year for $6.5 M.

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 01:43 PM
Washburn is not the answer and we'd have his contract on the book next year for $6.5 M.

Risk = 0
Reward = he's better than Rasner/Ponson

Tifoso
07-22-08, 01:43 PM
As long as they're only looking :)

JeffWeaverFan
07-22-08, 01:43 PM
I agree that this deserves it's own thread (I was about to make one). I'm personally against it.

Here's my concern: How much better is he than Ponson and/or Rasner? He's due $10M next year, and I don't know if the upgrade over Ponson/Rasner is worth wasting $10M on him next year (or I guess like $6M because we'd be getting rid of Igawa's $4M).

This year Washburn has a K/9 of 5.32, a K/BB of 2.03, and a G/F of .97.

Rasner has a K/9 of 6.18, a K/BB of 2.56, and a G/F of .92. And Ponson has a K/9 of 4.14, a K/BB of 1.33, and a G/F of 2.39.

Lastly, I hate the idea of him being penciled into the rotation next year, although I guess he could be the 5 starter to start the season in place of Hughes until Hughes pushes him out of there. But there's got to be a better option than Washburn and his $10M salary for that.

ppa79
07-22-08, 01:43 PM
Washburn is not the answer and we'd have his contract on the book next year for $6.5 M.


6.5 mil isn't bad for someone who can possibly pitch 200 innings and give you an era of 4.5 especially the only thing you are giving up is Igawa who is completely waste of a roster spot.

JeffWeaverFan
07-22-08, 01:45 PM
Risk = 0
Reward = he's better than Rasner/Ponson
Risk= Jarrod Washburn lhp
4 years/$37.5M (2006-09)

signed as a free agent 12/05
06:$7.45M, 07:$9.85M, 08:$9.85M, 09:$10.35M
limited no-trade protection
1 year/$6.5M (2005), avoided arbitration 1/05
1 year/$5.45M (2004), avoided arbitration 1 /04
1 year/$3.875M (2003), avoided arbitration 1/03
1 year/$0.35M (2002) 3/02
agent: Scott Boras
ML service: 8.131So that's about $4M this year and another $10.35M next year.

Reward: Is he though?

Yankee Tripper
07-22-08, 01:46 PM
6.5 mil isn't bad for someone who can possibly pitch 200 innings and give you an era of 4.5 especially the only thing you are giving up is Igawa who is completely waste of a roster spot.If they take Igawa and his $8M due the next two years, straight up for Washburn then year it's not a horrible idea. At worst Washburn could be an overpriced lefty out of the pen, spot starter or long guy.

I don't see Seattle taking on Igawa for Washburn though.

ppa79
07-22-08, 01:46 PM
I agree that this deserves it's own thread (I was about to make one). I'm personally against it.

Here's my concern: How much better is he than Ponson and/or Rasner? He's due $10M next year, and I don't know if the upgrade over Ponson/Rasner is worth wasting $10M on him next year (or I guess like $6M because we'd be getting rid of Igawa's $4M).

This year Washburn has a K/9 of 5.32, a K/BB of 2.03, and a G/F of .97.

Rasner has a K/9 of 6.18, a K/BB of 2.56, and a G/F of .92. And Ponson has a K/9 of 4.14, a K/BB of 1.33, and a G/F of 2.39.

Lastly, I hate the idea of him being penciled into the rotation next year, although I guess he could be the 5 starter to start the season in place of Hughes until Hughes pushes him out of there. But there's got to be a better option than Washburn and his $10M salary for that.

For 6.5 mil, I think that is good value for someone who is capable of giving you 200 innings and a 4.5 era.

I'm not worried about him blocking Hughes because if Hughes shows he is superior to Washburn, Hughes will be starting.

Yankee Tripper
07-22-08, 01:46 PM
So that's about $4M this year and another $10.35M next year.

Reward: Is he though?
That's worse than I tought.

ppa79
07-22-08, 01:47 PM
If they take Igawa and his $8M due the next two years, straight up for Washburn then year it's not a horrible idea. At worst Washburn could be an overpriced lefty out of the pen, spot starter or long guy.

I don't see Seattle taking on Igawa for Washburn though.

Isn't that the deal that Olney said, Igawa and a lower level prospect for Wasburn?

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 01:47 PM
Risk= Jarrod Washburn lhp
4 years/$37.5M (2006-09)
signed as a free agent 12/05
06:$7.45M, 07:$9.85M, 08:$9.85M, 09:$10.35M
limited no-trade protection
1 year/$6.5M (2005), avoided arbitration 1/05
1 year/$5.45M (2004), avoided arbitration 1 /04
1 year/$3.875M (2003), avoided arbitration 1/03
1 year/$0.35M (2002) 3/02
agent: Scott Boras
ML service: 8.131So that's about $4M this year and another $10.35M next year.

Reward: Is he though?

You're not including the Igawa dollars that'll be dumped in this trade.

Gun to my head, who'd I rather have as my 5th starter for the rest of the year in order to make the playoffs? Washburn over either of those two, any day.

ppa79
07-22-08, 01:47 PM
Risk= Jarrod Washburn lhp
4 years/$37.5M (2006-09)

signed as a free agent 12/05
06:$7.45M, 07:$9.85M, 08:$9.85M, 09:$10.35M
limited no-trade protection
1 year/$6.5M (2005), avoided arbitration 1/05
1 year/$5.45M (2004), avoided arbitration 1 /04
1 year/$3.875M (2003), avoided arbitration 1/03
1 year/$0.35M (2002) 3/02
agent: Scott Boras
ML service: 8.131So that's about $4M this year and another $10.35M next year.

Reward: Is he though?

Subtract out the Igawa money next year and the 2 years after.

Yankee Tripper
07-22-08, 01:48 PM
Isn't that the deal that Olney said, Igawa and a lower level prospect for Wasburn?Could be. Is Olney ever right on these things? He always seems behind the curve on these rumors.

Mark19
07-22-08, 01:52 PM
Could be. Is Olney ever right on these things? He always seems behind the curve on these rumors.

He announced the Sexson signing two hours before the other guys

-=-

Rasner will be pitching for his job tonight. We really need someone who can give us more than 5 innings and 3-4 earned. Ponson has a WHIP near 2, eventually his luck will run out and we'll be stuck with a 5-6 run deficit early.

Washburn has been reliably average for the last few years. He is a lefty and he seems comfortable in big game situations. If we can send a AAAA bat and Igawa/Hawkins, the deal makes lots of sense. If we throw someone of value, perhaps they'll even give us Ryan Rowland-Smith.

ppa79
07-22-08, 01:55 PM
Washburn has been reliably average for the last few years. He is a lefty and he seems comfortable in big game situations. If we can send a AAAA bat and Igawa/Hawkins, the deal makes lots of sense. If we throw someone of value, perhaps they'll even give us Ryan Rowland-Smith.

Shelly and Igawa. Get it done Cash.

Yankee Tripper
07-22-08, 01:55 PM
I suppose if it is Igawa and someone not likely to make our roster, then Washburn is an upgrade over either Ponson or Rasner. The thought of Washburn in our rotation at $10.35M next year is what I really don't like.

ppa79
07-22-08, 01:56 PM
I suppose if it is Igawa and someone not likely to make our roster, then Washburn is an upgrade over either Ponson or Rasner. The thought of Washburn in our rotation at $10.35M next year is what I really don't like.

What about the thought of having Igawa in the AAA rotation for 4 million dollars. And in 2010 and 2011 for 4 million dollars?

Cheesyhoboe
07-22-08, 01:56 PM
If Hughes and Kennedy decide to show up next year, we could always just keep Washburn as the long man. This is obviously a move targeted towards winning THIS year, though.

effdamets
07-22-08, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Washburn in the Bronx... wearing a Yankee's uniform.
I think he'd get better just because of the stadium he'd pitch half his games in.

And to get rid of Igawa? Whoa! That is the gas for my fire!
Then there would be zero temptation on bringing him to the big club ever again!

sweet_lou_14
07-22-08, 01:58 PM
What about the thought of having Igawa in the AAA rotation for 4 million dollars. And in 2010 and 2011 for 4 million dollars?

This can't be stressed enough.

Mark19
07-22-08, 01:59 PM
Shelly and Igawa. Get it done Cash.

Shelley is on the DL, out for the season

If anything they'd want a AAAA player for roster filler while they wind down this lost season. Justin Christian or Matt Carson sounds more appropriate.

JeffWeaverFan
07-22-08, 01:59 PM
You're not including the Igawa dollars that'll be dumped in this trade.

Gun to my head, who'd I rather have as my 5th starter for the rest of the year in order to make the playoffs? Washburn over either of those two, any day.
No, I'm not, so that's fair.

I really just don't know if he's much of an upgrade, if any, over those two.

webassign
07-22-08, 02:00 PM
This really hinges on whether Seattle is dumb enough to take on Igawa. What makes Igawa attrative to them?

Ynkcpt23
07-22-08, 02:01 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Washburn in the Bronx... wearing a Yankee's uniform.
I think he'd get better just because of the stadium he'd pitch half his games in.

And to get rid of Igawa? Whoa! That is the gas for my fire!
Then there would be zero temptation on bringing him to the big club ever again!

Just the thought of Igawa being somebody else's headache brings joy to my heart. I f***ing hate the fact that we've wasted so much money on that chump.

ppa79
07-22-08, 02:01 PM
No, I'm not, so that's fair.

I really just don't know if he's much of an upgrade, if any, over those two.

Over the course of the season, I would say Washburn is capable of giving you 200 innings and an era of about 4.5. Could you say the same for Rasner or Ponson? I can't.

4bronxbombers
07-22-08, 02:02 PM
If he can pitch better than Ponson and Rasner I'd say do it and if we can dump Igawa I'll be doin' the jig down 161st street.

effdamets
07-22-08, 02:02 PM
If he can pitch better than Ponson and Rasner I'd say do it and if we can dump Igawa I'll be doin' the jig down 161st street.
We'll all be watching for that!!!! :D

4bronxbombers
07-22-08, 02:03 PM
We'll all be watching for that!!!! :D

:lol:

ShaneTravis
07-22-08, 02:04 PM
If Hughes and Kennedy decide to show up next year, we could always just keep Washburn as the long man. This is obviously a move targeted towards winning THIS year, though.

Who's to say Washburn could not be traded mid year next year? Or simply dropped?

Best case? We get a lefty for back end of rotation and lessen the payroll after next year by 8 million. We take on more money short term but what in the world would be the downside of losing Igawa's contract?

destro
07-22-08, 02:05 PM
Could be. Is Olney ever right on these things? He always seems behind the curve on these rumors.

he got matsuzaka right.

themgmt
07-22-08, 02:05 PM
Washburn is not the answer and we'd have his contract on the book next year for $6.5 M.

If they're taking Igawa it pretty much offsets itself monetarily. And ends the embarrassing enigma that is Kei Igawa

JeffWeaverFan
07-22-08, 02:06 PM
Over the course of the season, I would say Washburn is capable of giving you 200 innings and an era of about 4.5. Could you say the same for Rasner or Ponson? I can't.
I honestly think Rasner could. And, I think that for the next 10 starts, those two guys have pretty much as good of a chance as pitching as well as Washburn.

effdamets
07-22-08, 02:07 PM
If they're taking Igawa it pretty much offsets itself monetarily. And ends the embarrassing enigma that is Kei Igawa
From the other side, maybe it's the change of scenary that Igawa needs.

Also, when the Yankees play the Mariners and they bring that hack in, the Yankee hitters can pad their stats! :lol:

ppa79
07-22-08, 02:08 PM
I honestly think Rasner could. And, I think that for the next 10 starts, those two guys have pretty much as good of a chance as pitching as well as Washburn.

I guess I'm not as high on Rasner as you are. I just think of him as a decent spot starter here and there.

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-22-08, 02:08 PM
No, I'd prefer Kennedy.

BroadwayBomber55
07-22-08, 02:10 PM
I guess I'm not as high on Rasner as you are. I just think of him as a decent spot starter here and there.
Darrell Rasner is good enough to be a spot starter/long reliever.

Get Jarrod Washburn for Kei Igawa and Ian Kennedy will battle with him for the 5th spot.

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 02:10 PM
No, I'd prefer Kennedy.

This year?

yankeeman61
07-22-08, 02:11 PM
If they're taking Igawa it pretty much offsets itself monetarily. And ends the embarrassing enigma that is Kei Igawa

If they take Igawa and the wasted money, I'd take Washburn for next year. Hell, they can even trade him somewhere else in the off season. Do it, and get a damn bat for the lineup while you're at it, Cashman.

webassign
07-22-08, 02:12 PM
This really hinges on whether Seattle is dumb enough to take on Igawa. What makes Igawa attrative to them?
2:06
[Comment From Kei Igawa]
What the in world would make Seattle want to trade Washburn for a bum like me?
2:06
Hard to say if the Mariners actually have any desire to have Igawa currently. But, it'd mostly be for salary relief (though Igawa would kind of negate that).

BroadwayBomber55
07-22-08, 02:15 PM
If they take Igawa and the wasted money, I'd take Washburn for next year. Hell, they can even trade him somewhere else in the off season. Do it, and get a damn bat for the lineup while you're at it, Cashman.
Better be a right-handed bat.

As for Kei Igawa, he can thrive in Seattle's heavy sea air. But then again, he can give up a lot of doubles and triples.

Do it, Brian Cashman get Jarrod Washburn and then give the M's Kei Igawa. Do it. Do it.

Hobbes40
07-22-08, 02:15 PM
Seattle wants salary relief? Then they better throw in Ichiro, Cairo, and Bedard if they want our Japanese ace.

JL25and3
07-22-08, 02:15 PM
Over the course of the season, I would say Washburn is capable of giving you 200 innings and an era of about 4.5. Could you say the same for Rasner or Ponson? I can't.More likely 180 than 200.

webassign
07-22-08, 02:16 PM
Seattle wants salary relief? Then they better throw in Ichiro, Cairo, and Bedard if they want our Japanese ace.
Miguel Cairo will instantly triple this team's grittiness.

StatenIslandYankee
07-22-08, 02:17 PM
I would not mind it at all. Only downside is Boston has hit him hard over the years. But he is an upgrade over Ponson and Rasner.

ppa79
07-22-08, 02:19 PM
I would not mind it at all. Only downside is Boston has hit him hard over the years. But he is an upgrade over Ponson and Rasner.

We wouldn't be getting him to go toe to toe against Beckett. We would be getting him to give us some stability in the back end of our rotation.

BroadwayBomber55
07-22-08, 02:21 PM
We wouldn't be getting him to go toe to toe against Beckett. We would be getting him to give us some stability in the back end of our rotation.
A rotation with a healthy Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte, Moose, Joba Chamberlain, and Jarrod Washburn? That's solid.

Then, if the Yankees make the playoffs, Washburn as a LOOGY from the pen?!

just-blaze
07-22-08, 02:21 PM
2:06
[Comment From Kei Igawa]
What the in world would make Seattle want to trade Washburn for a bum like me?
2:06
Hard to say if the Mariners actually have any desire to have Igawa currently. But, it'd mostly be for salary relief (though Igawa would kind of negate that).

They are owned by a Japanese company, they get a little salary relief, they are rebuilding, there isn't a big market out for Washburn, and most importantly (believe it or not) his stuff his on par with Washburn....... a change of scenery or a brave pitching coach might believe that they can fix him back to what he was in Japan.

Mark19
07-22-08, 02:23 PM
I would not mind it at all. Only downside is Boston has hit him hard over the years. But he is an upgrade over Ponson and Rasner.

Well, Boston hasn't hit him hard over the years. Over the last three years he's pitched to a 4.2 ERA against the Red Sox. For his career, it is 4.6.

I would gladly take a 6 inning 3 earned performance against the Red Sox. It is vastly preferable to a 4 inning, 6 earned performance you are likely to get from Rasner.

Furthermore, he owns a 3.6 career ERA at Fenway and a 2.6 career ERA against the Rays

He would be a very good fit if we got him in a salary dump

webassign
07-22-08, 02:25 PM
They are owned by a Japanese company, they get a little salary relief, they are rebuilding, there isn't a big market out for Washburn, and most importantly (believe it or not) his stuff his on par with Washburn....... a change of scenery or a brave pitching coach might believe that they can fix him back to what he was in Japan.
There's only so much you can harp on a Japanese connection. I don't buy it at all; the Mariners don't need more Japanese fanfare, especially from a failure like Igawa. The Mariners could do much better than Igawa for Washburn.

yankeeman61
07-22-08, 02:26 PM
A rotation with a healthy Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte, Moose, Joba Chamberlain, and Jarrod Washburn? That's solid.

Then, if the Yankees make the playoffs, Washburn as a LOOGY from the pen?!

All of the above is OK by me. Still need a BAT man, though. Send out the signal

http://www.criticsrant.com/Images/criticsrant_com/News%20Rants/BatSignal.jpg

Torre Must Go
07-22-08, 02:27 PM
Wait, an AL team actually has interest in Igawa?

BroadwayBomber55
07-22-08, 02:29 PM
All of the above is OK by me. Still need a BAT man, though. Send out the signal

http://www.criticsrant.com/Images/criticsrant_com/News%20Rants/BatSignal.jpg
Not just a bat, but a quality power right hand bat and plays the OF (i.e. Jason Bay or Matt Holliday).

Get that RH bat and a backend starter like Jarrod Washburn and we're done.

ShaneTravis
07-22-08, 02:32 PM
A couple of years ago we pick up a guy who was same age, same stats but pitched in an inferior league and was a righty. We were all pretty ok with Lidle then.

But there are people who object to Washburn?

JeffWeaverFan
07-22-08, 02:33 PM
I guess I'm not as high on Rasner as you are. I just think of him as a decent spot starter here and there.
I'm not high on him, but I think he's about as good as what Washburn is now.

Cheesyhoboe
07-22-08, 02:35 PM
At least Washburn is riding a hot streak (Gave up 2 runs or less in last 7 out of 8 starts). Rasner's hot streak is long gone, he's just been terrible for a while now.

just-blaze
07-22-08, 02:36 PM
There's only so much you can harp on a Japanese connection. I don't buy it at all; the Mariners don't need more Japanese fanfare, especially from a failure like Igawa. The Mariners could do much better than Igawa for Washburn.

Explain the extension for Johjima when they have Clement?

OK, name the teams that would want him, his salary, and give up something better than Igawa for him.

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 02:37 PM
The pros outweigh the cons here. I don't see any reason to not like the move.

yankeesrule2000
07-22-08, 02:38 PM
The pros outweigh the cons here. I don't see any reason to not like the move.

agreed

webassign
07-22-08, 02:43 PM
Explain the extension for Johjima when they have Clement?

OK, name the teams that would want him, his salary, and give up something better than Igawa for him.
Maybe they want to use Clement as a big trade piece.

Keeping Washburn is already infinitely better than having anything to do with Igawa for minor salary relief.

BRNXBMRS
07-22-08, 02:44 PM
Washburn is 4-9 4.75 ERA 131 H in 110 ip, how is he going to do any better or help the yanks then Rasner/Ponson/Hughes/IPK. No thanks pass, the Yanks already have a lefty that cant pitch in Igawa.

b_joseph
07-22-08, 02:44 PM
He has pitched very very well as of late. If he is very cheap, get it done.

ppa79
07-22-08, 02:45 PM
Washburn is 4-9 4.75 ERA 131 H in 110 ip, how is he going to do any better or help the yanks then Rasner/Ponson/Hughes/IPK. No thanks pass.

Because in his last 4 starts Rasner has an ERA of about 8. We are just getting lucky with Ponson, he isn't that good. Hughes is hurt.

StatenIslandYankee
07-22-08, 02:47 PM
At least Washburn is riding a hot streak (Gave up 2 runs or less in last 7 out of 8 starts). Rasner's hot streak is long gone, he's just been terrible for a while now.Agreed. Rasner has been brutal lately.

sjb23
07-22-08, 02:49 PM
Give them Igawa and Eric Duncan for Washburn -- he'd be perfect as a 4th or 5th starter, and gives us another lefty...

Then go out and get Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte for Ian Kennedy, Ross Ohlendorff, Jeff Karstens and Jose Tabata...

Then go out and win the pennant...

NYATLCHRIS
07-22-08, 02:53 PM
Can we get the Washburn circa 2002?

BRNXBMRS
07-22-08, 02:53 PM
Because in his last 4 starts Rasner has an ERA of about 8. We are just getting lucky with Ponson, he isn't that good. Hughes is hurt.

ok, but what happens when Wang & Huges/IPK comeback?

b_joseph
07-22-08, 02:54 PM
Washburn is 4-9 4.75 ERA 131 H in 110 ip, how is he going to do any better or help the yanks then Rasner/Ponson/Hughes/IPK. No thanks pass, the Yanks already have a lefty that cant pitch in Igawa.Have you seen his numbers over the past 2 months? Have you seen his track record?


ok, but what happens when Wang & Huges/IPK comeback?
Hughes needs to just stay in AAA for the remainder if he comes back. And Wang is mondo unlikely.

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 02:55 PM
ok, but what happens when Wang & Huges/IPK comeback?

Then we get that lefty reliever that many have been begging for.

Dannman103
07-22-08, 02:56 PM
ok, but what happens when Wang & Huges/IPK comeback?

Nothing wrong with having too many starting pitchers...plus, who knows if Hughes or Wang won't have a setback in rehab.

BRNXBMRS
07-22-08, 02:57 PM
Have you seen his numbers over the past 2 months? Have you seen his track record?


Hughes needs to just stay in AAA for the remainder if he comes back. And Wang is mondo unlikely.

Ok so Rasner started off with decent numbers and went flat, Washburn is on a hotstreak. The Yanks would be buying him high.

just-blaze
07-22-08, 02:58 PM
Maybe they want to use Clement as a big trade piece.

Keeping Washburn is already infinitely better than having anything to do with Igawa for minor salary relief.

Why? Its obvious they are in rebuilding mode....especially since Bedard has been rumored to be going too. As much as you hate Igawa, his value hasn't lowered any since last year and the Padres were also interested in him, hell the Mariners could spin him off to the Padres. There is also the couple of million (not including cash that could be sent with Igawa in the trade) they save and the lower level prospect they would recieve in the deal.


Using a great catching prospect as a piece to a trade while overpaying an underperforming older catcher doesnt sound like they value Japanese players?

Gusto
07-22-08, 02:59 PM
Agreed. Rasner has been brutal lately.

Yup ... he's pitching his last game in pinstripes tonight.

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 02:59 PM
Ok so Rasner started off with decent numbers and went flat, Washburn is on a hotstreak. The Yanks would be buying him high.

But they would be ridding themselves of Igawa for crying out loud.

BRNXBMRS
07-22-08, 03:00 PM
Yup ... he's pitching his last game in pinstripes tonight.

source? :P

BonusCantos
07-22-08, 03:00 PM
They want Igawa? Seriously?

Do it, Cashman. What the hell are you waiting for? Do it before they realize what they're getting into!

just-blaze
07-22-08, 03:01 PM
Then we get that lefty reliever that many have been begging for.

Unneccessarily begging for.

Gusto
07-22-08, 03:01 PM
source? :P

My predicition.

www.Rasnerispitchinghislastgameinpinstripestonight.com/betonit

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 03:02 PM
If Rasner gets lit up tonight, look for this move to be made quickly.

BroadwayBomber55
07-22-08, 03:04 PM
They want Igawa? Seriously?

Do it, Cashman. What the hell are you waiting for? Do it before they realize what they're getting into!
Memo to Brian Cashman: Time to let your hands go and throw a lot of punches.

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-22-08, 03:08 PM
This year?

Yeah, I'd like to give him another shot. I don't know what the Yankees are telling him to do in the minors, but I hope they understand one of his biggest problems this year was his curveball.

b_joseph
07-22-08, 03:08 PM
Ok so Rasner started off with decent numbers and went flat, Washburn is on a hotstreak. The Yanks would be buying him high.Washburn is just more likely to be reliable. If you get him for free, you cant pass it up.

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-22-08, 03:11 PM
If we can unload Kei, I'd probably make this trade. But again, I'd still rather give Kennedy another shot before anything.

scooterfan
07-22-08, 03:14 PM
Interesting piece in today's Seattle Times:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2008065472_mari220.html


Whether that pays off where Washburn's trade value is concerned remains to be seen. The New York Yankees are said to have some possible interest in Washburn as a fallback plan if their bid to land Toronto starter A.J. Burnett fails.
The St. Louis Cardinals are the National League team most often mentioned in Washburn rumors.


Washburn seems a LOT more affordable. I still can't imagine Ricciardi trading Burnett within the division

I also can't imagine what he'd cost as far as prospects

Espinosa's Glasses
07-22-08, 03:16 PM
If this is the BEST that they can do... I'll take it... why? I guess solely of 2008 stats...

vs. TB 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 7.0 6 1 1 0 1 2 1.29 1.00 .250

vs. TOR 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 12.0 12 3 3 1 5 8 2.25 1.42 .267

vs. BAL 2 2 0 1 0 0 0 10.0 12 5 5 2 4 6 4.50 1.60 .308
vs. BOS 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 5.2 7 2 2 1 2 3 3.18 1.59 .318


You can fill in the stat blanks... I don't like the BAA vs BOS and BAL... However over the span of the last couple years... he has pitched worse against the 2 teams...

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-22-08, 03:17 PM
I wonder if the Yankees knows A.J. stinks and his peripherals are horrifying for a guy with his type of stuff.

bostonyankeefan
07-22-08, 03:17 PM
But they would be ridding themselves of Igawa for crying out loud.

Is there anything more that needs to be discussed? We would be trading dead weight and a horrible salary for less that 1 1/2 years of a bad contract and a guy who can eat innings.

BRNXBMRS
07-22-08, 03:18 PM
Washburn is just more likely to be reliable. If you get him for free, you cant pass it up.

Ca$h would be an idioit to pass that up.

montrealer
07-22-08, 03:19 PM
Subtract out the Igawa money next year and the 2 years after.
Why would they want Igawa? That`s just stupid on their part. Why would anybody want Igawa.

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 03:20 PM
I wonder if the Yankees knows A.J. stinks and his peripherals are horrifying for a guy with his type of stuff.

Not only that but I read a decent point today somewhere. If he were to come here and get hurt, he would choose not to opt out and we'd be stuck with him for the next two years and $22M.

ppa79
07-22-08, 03:20 PM
Why would they want Igawa? That`s just stupid on their part. Why would anybody want Igawa.

The Padres wanted Igawa last year.

YESSIR!
07-22-08, 03:21 PM
I wonder if the Yankees knows A.J. stinks and his peripherals are horrifying for a guy with his type of stuff.

He pitches well against the us, so we're obviously blinded by his Yankee-killing prowess.

I would be surprised, and am in fact surprised, to hear that Cashman is looking at AJ. He would likely cost waaaay more than he's really worth. But if we could get him for Igawa+...well then, ya know...;)

b_joseph
07-22-08, 03:22 PM
I wonder if the Yankees knows A.J. stinks and his peripherals are horrifying for a guy with his type of stuff.A.J just seems to get bored easily.

His career numbers vs us and Boston would show that he pitches better on the big stage.
Maybe if he pitched for us, he would feel motivated enough to bring his best more often.

Gusto
07-22-08, 03:23 PM
If we can unload Kei, I'd probably make this trade. But again, I'd still rather give Kennedy another shot before anything.

There's room for both right now

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-22-08, 03:43 PM
Not only that but I read a decent point today somewhere. If he were to come here and get hurt, he would choose not to opt out and we'd be stuck with him for the next two years and $22M.

Yeah, that too.

Dannman103
07-22-08, 03:47 PM
Not only that but I read a decent point today somewhere. If he were to come here and get hurt, he would choose not to opt out and we'd be stuck with him for the next two years and $22M.

And if he has a great second half, he can opt out and go for another paycheck, after we might have given up young talent for a half year rental.

YESSIR!
07-22-08, 03:49 PM
Brief scouting report:



Assets
His change-up and slider are solid weapons, and he has established a diverse arsenal of fastballs--ranging from 84-94 m.p.h. Fields his position well.

Flaws
Too often, he leaves the ball out over the plate and it gets hammered. Is too emotional on the mound and tends to lose his composure and smarts.

Career potential
A crafty mid-rotation lefty.


He hasn't been injured since the summer of 2005, when he had minor forearm injuries.



http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Jarrod_Washburn/

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 03:51 PM
And if he has a great second half, he can opt out and go for another paycheck, after we might have given up young talent for a half year rental.

At that point we'd be compensated with draft picks.

JavyVazquezIsSick
07-22-08, 03:58 PM
At that point we'd be compensated with draft picks.

Would we?

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 03:59 PM
Would we?

It would actually depend on the language in his contract. I remember (I think) when Drew opted out, I think his team was not allowed to offer him arbitration.

Also, he would more likely be type-B than type-A

teknetic
07-22-08, 04:07 PM
A.J just seems to get bored easily.

His career numbers vs us and Boston would show that he pitches better on the big stage.
Maybe if he pitched for us, he would feel motivated enough to bring his best more often.

That's not the best of traits to look for in a pitcher..

HelloNewman
07-22-08, 04:27 PM
I've had this guy on my radar for a few weeks now. Of the middling 4th starter types who make up the current starting pitching market, he makes the most sense. After a horrible first few months, he's trending back to his league-average history with a very good June and July; Yankee Stadium is a good park to forgive his lefty fly-ball tendencies (2.82 ERA there lifetime); and you probably won't have to give up a ton of talent to get him.

The only downside is his salary; If Seattle will actually take Igawa and his contract this trade becomes a MUST DO.

Clemens831
07-22-08, 04:34 PM
This really hinges on whether Seattle is dumb enough to take on Igawa. What makes Igawa attrative to them?

Maybe they think he'll be more comfortable in Seattle? With the large Japanese population/Japanese ownership? A change of scenery couldnt hurt at this point...

Clemens831
07-22-08, 04:35 PM
Give them Igawa and Eric Duncan for Washburn -- he'd be perfect as a 4th or 5th starter, and gives us another lefty...

Then go out and get Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte for Ian Kennedy, Ross Ohlendorff, Jeff Karstens and Jose Tabata...

Then go out and win the pennant...

Woah, woah. Since when do we think Cashman wants to give up and sell low on Tabata?

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-22-08, 04:37 PM
Maybe they think he'll be more comfortable in Seattle? With the large Japanese population/Japanese ownership? A change of scenery couldnt hurt at this point...

What's the cost? Their season is lost this year, and Igawa could possibly given them a back end, lefty starter one day -- and he'd be cheap if he filled that role.

Bostonsfavson
07-22-08, 04:41 PM
I'm ALL for this deal. A 4.75 ERA is not bad at all for a number five guy, and if you look at his last ten starts his ERA has gone down every single game (except for a very minor hiccup early on) indicating that he started out rough but is coming around. If we make this happen, and then pick up another bat, I really like our chances of making the playoffs. If not, then I think it's hit or miss as to whether we make it. On another note, Jon Heyman on SI.com also indicates that the Yanks are looking at him.

apalradio
07-22-08, 05:15 PM
If this is between Igawa and Washburn, who would you rather have? For me, it's a pretty obvious choice.

continentalg5
07-22-08, 05:24 PM
They're actually going to take...Kei...Igawa...OMGZ!!1!!

Since95
07-22-08, 05:35 PM
I'll take anything to get Igawa outta pinstripes!

BxBomber44
07-22-08, 05:38 PM
money he is owed next year bothers me, but he could be a great 5th starter in the AL East...

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-22-08, 05:39 PM
money he is owed next year bothers me, but he could be a great 5th starter in the AL East...

Right, but the Igawa money is sunk cost, so'd you can factor that in if it makes you feel better

Matt
07-22-08, 05:41 PM
Right, but the Igawa money is sunk cost, so'd you can factor that in if it makes you feel better

Yep. And Igawa would be on the payroll longer than Washburn would be.

BxBomber44
07-22-08, 05:43 PM
I have no idea why Seattle would want Igawa though, it just doesn't make sense to me. But if it indeed is for Igawa than pull the trigger

scooterfan
07-22-08, 05:49 PM
I have no idea why Seattle would want Igawa though, it just doesn't make sense to me. But if it indeed is for Igawa than pull the trigger

Seattle has a large Japanese population. Igawa has pitched well at AAA, can hit 91/92 on the fastball, and is cost-controlled. They also have Jojima and Ichiro

It seems like Igawa's problems are at least partly mental. Maybe Igawa will feel more comfortable, and it gets the Mariners out from under Washburn's contract.

YASS
07-22-08, 05:50 PM
Which "low level prospect" would be untouchable for you guys in a deal like this?

To me, this is the key. Last year, the Sox gave up Engel Beltre to Texas in the Gagne deal, and most Sox fans said "So what?". Now he's likely to be a top 50 prospect and we bitterly regret that stupid deal.

Would you give up Kelvin DeLeon? Tabata? Betances? It seems to me that's the part of this deal that might become a sticking point. I mean, why else would Seattle want Igawa? Maybe the true dish is that they'll take him off your hands only if you throw in a premium low level talent.

YanksFan1992
07-22-08, 05:50 PM
He would probably be quite cheap to acquire, so get it done Cash!

AJW
07-22-08, 05:55 PM
What about the thought of having Igawa in the AAA rotation for 4 million dollars. And in 2010 and 2011 for 4 million dollars?

Very good point.

dont_ya_know24
07-22-08, 06:01 PM
the yankees are probably going to have to eat all of igawa's contract, that's the only way they would want to take igawa off our hands....

YanksFan1992
07-22-08, 06:01 PM
2:06
[Comment From Kei Igawa]
What the in world would make Seattle want to trade Washburn for a bum like me?
2:06
Hard to say if the Mariners actually have any desire to have Igawa currently. But, it'd mostly be for salary relief (though Igawa would kind of negate that).

Trust me, the Mariners front office is dumber than a bag of rocks.

To be honest, I'm surprised they aren't asking us to throw in Pavano as well.

scooterfan
07-22-08, 06:03 PM
Which "low level prospect" would be untouchable for you guys in a deal like this?

To me, this is the key. Last year, the Sox gave up Engel Beltre to Texas in the Gagne deal, and most Sox fans said "So what?". Now he's likely to be a top 50 prospect and we bitterly regret that stupid deal.

Would you give up Kelvin DeLeon? Tabata? Betances? It seems to me that's the part of this deal that might become a sticking point. I mean, why else would Seattle want Igawa? Maybe the true dish is that they'll take him off your hands only if you throw in a premium low level talent.

It's an excellent point - but the situations are pretty different

There was a bidding war for Gagne, and I don't know if the Sox get Gagne if they refused to part with Beltre. Gagne was also a Type A free agent who wanted to close - so the Sox were also getting a first-round pick and a sandwich pick for him.

Here, for a partial salary dump, I'd expect "low level prospect" could translate to a prospect with a low(er) ceiling. The Yankees have a log jam of pitching. You could see a guy like Chase Wright, Jason Jones or Phil Coke get included - and while I like those guys, there's just too many pitchers around.

YASS
07-22-08, 06:22 PM
It's an excellent point - but the situations are pretty different

There was a bidding war for Gagne, and I don't know if the Sox get Gagne if they refused to part with Beltre. Gagne was also a Type A free agent who wanted to close - so the Sox were also getting a first-round pick and a sandwich pick for him.

Here, for a partial salary dump, I'd expect "low level prospect" could translate to a prospect with a low(er) ceiling. The Yankees have a log jam of pitching. You could see a guy like Chase Wright, Jason Jones or Phil Coke get included - and while I like those guys, there's just too many pitchers around.
You might be right, but I just don't see how Seattle benefits if the prospect isn't a pretty attractive piece of the deal. They shed a little bit of salary, but they take on an additional $8M of obligation in the outyears, so they come out worse in the end. This isn't much of a salary dump for them if the Yankees aren't kicking in any cash.

just-blaze
07-22-08, 07:05 PM
You might be right, but I just don't see how Seattle benefits if the prospect isn't a pretty attractive piece of the deal. They shed a little bit of salary, but they take on an additional $8M of obligation in the outyears, so they come out worse in the end. This isn't much of a salary dump for them if the Yankees aren't kicking in any cash.

I think they'll get a prospect like Noel Castillo, Jhonathan Ortiz, or Dickson Marquez.

A good live arm that has negatives to their prospect status (age, reliever, ineffectiveness).

I also think we will eat a significant chunk of Igawa's contract.

THEBOSS84
07-22-08, 07:23 PM
Rasner pitching a gem through 5. I wonder if that changes anything here.

Dannman103
07-22-08, 07:49 PM
Rasner pitching a gem through 5. I wonder if that changes anything here.

Can never have too much pitching.

NelsonMuntz
07-22-08, 08:21 PM
If it rids us of Igawa and doesn't require giving up any legitimate prospects, I'm all for it. Otherwise, I'd pass. Washburn isn't very good.

TheBamTino24
07-22-08, 08:35 PM
Washburn would be a slight improvement over Rasner or Ponson. But he seems to be the type of pitcher that would probably elevate his game thrown into this environment. Similar stats to Rasner and I would expect a little better production. But he's now 34; this isn't the 2002 Washburn (18-6, 3.12).

Give them players and take on another $20M in salary? I don't know. I like the idea of a LH with World Series experience, and someone who appears to be a big competitor though.

I'd put it on the back burner for now.

Mark19
07-22-08, 08:38 PM
Washburn would be a slight improvement over Rasner or Ponson. He's the type of pitcher that would probably elevate his game thrown into this environment.

But to give them players and take on another $20M in salary? I don't know. I like the idea of a LH with World Series experience, and someone who appears to be a big competitor though.

I'd put it on the back burner for now.

Don't mean to quibble but we'd take on $14 million maximum and depending on the prospect we send them, we could take on even less. If we can send them Hawkins, we can save an additional million or two.

Washburn is the kind of pitcher who has the skillset to be a 180 inning, 4 ERA pitcher for the Yankees. I would gladly take that for another season and a half, it would be worth the price to have the depth.

If Hughes and Kennedy are breathing fire down his neck next summer, we can always trade him for salary relief and recoup some of our investment. It will be his walk year and at 33, he isn't quite ready to retire.

vin777b
07-22-08, 08:38 PM
if they take Igawa, i make the trade before Seattle changes their mind.

even if i have to kick in, a B or C prospect.

scooterfan
07-22-08, 08:54 PM
According to this story from Dan Graziano (Star Ledger), the Mariners are scouting AA Trenton:
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/yankees_in_talks_for_seattle_p.html

I have to think they're looking at one of the AA starters - Coke, Jones, Hacker, Kontos or Wright.

The Dynasty
07-22-08, 09:07 PM
According to this story from Dan Graziano (Star Ledger), the Mariners are scouting AA Trenton:
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/yankees_in_talks_for_seattle_p.html

I have to think they're looking at one of the AA starters - Coke, Jones, Hacker, Kontos or Wright.

The Star-Ledger is pretty damn reliable with their sources. I would not be surprised with the addition of Washburn at all. I may be proven wrong, but I think Cash is trying to solidify the pitching staff on the cheap and see if he can throw real chips at acquiring a bat.

yankeesrule2000
07-22-08, 09:38 PM
The Star-Ledger is pretty damn reliable with their sources. I would not be surprised with the addition of Washburn at all. I may be proven wrong, but I think Cash is trying to solidify the pitching staff on the cheap and see if he can throw real chips at acquiring a bat.

Well I hope your right.

destro
07-22-08, 11:41 PM
keep em away from kontos. That kid has some good stuff.

YanksFan1992
07-23-08, 12:39 AM
Latest update:


The Yankees want to ship Kei Igawa to Seattle, but then the Mariners could see that and raise them a Jose Vidro.

It would probably be easier for the Yankees to eat all of Washburn's contract while just sending the Mariners a marginal prospect.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/yankees-looking.html

just-blaze
07-23-08, 01:01 AM
Latest update:



http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/yankees-looking.html

Werd.

Send Igawa to San Diego.

Yankeesfan811
07-23-08, 01:03 AM
I don't particularly like Jarod Washburn.....

can he give us anything better than Rasner, Ponson, or people in the farm?

doubtful.

Tyler Durden
07-23-08, 01:12 AM
As much as I would love to see the day when Kei Igawa is no longer affiliated with the pinstripes, I'm not sure that I see the benefit in trading him for Washburn. Especially if the Yanks are going to have to pay Washburn's bloated contract next year AND eat much of Igawa's bloated contract as well as give up a semi-decent prospect or two.

I would rather see the Yankees go after Freddy Garcia for the 5th spot in the rotation, as he is a much cheaper example of a low risk, possibly high reward signing, and then find another way to dump Igawa's contract.

conkermaniac
07-23-08, 01:37 AM
People in this thread have been suggesting Hawkins. Why in the world would Seattle want Hawkins? They are out of contention this year, and Hawkins only has a one-year deal.

flymick24
07-23-08, 02:07 AM
anybody think that cashman might be looking to deal for both washburn AND ibanez?

yanksphan
07-23-08, 05:53 AM
anybody think that cashman might be looking to deal for both washburn AND ibanez?

I think Ibanez would fit quite nicely in NY.

sjb23
07-23-08, 06:01 AM
anybody think that cashman might be looking to deal for both washburn AND ibanez?

I was thinking about this also.....but I think Cashman would rather add a RH-hitting outfielder like Nady...including Ibanez may be "plan B"....also, it gets the Mariners off the idea of the Yankees having to take Jose Vidro, who would have no role here...personally I think Cashman can get Washburn, Nady and Marte without giving up anyone who isn't replacable....

Washburn for Igawa and Eric Duncan....Nady & Marte for Ian Kennedy, Jeff Karstens, Jose Tabata, and Ross Ohlendorf....that wins the pennant, in my opinion...

b_joseph
07-23-08, 06:21 AM
anybody think that cashman might be looking to deal for both washburn AND ibanez?For the right price, I wouldnt be against that at all.
Ibanez is a professional hitter that would fit in to any line up.

In AA the only players ( currently healthy ) I would protect are: Jackson, Kontos and Melancon...Maybe, maybe, maybe Curtis.

Bub
07-23-08, 06:41 AM
I don't particularly like Jarod Washburn.....

can he give us anything better than Rasner, Ponson, or people in the farm?

doubtful.Perhaps against some good lefty-hitting teams. Otherwise no.

Bleacher_Creature
07-23-08, 08:25 AM
The Yankees are believed to want to send disappointing lefthander Kei Igawa to Seattle to offset Washburn's contract. Meanwhile, the Mariners could counter by asking that almost-as-disappointing designated hitter Jose Vidro (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5827) be sent to New York along with Washburn.

The Yankees are seeking a righthanded batter, so the switch-hitting Vidro would fit the bill, but it's uncertain how New York would react to that suggestion since he's been so unproductive.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/23/yankees.washburn/index.html

effdamets
07-23-08, 08:26 AM
Perhaps against some good lefty-hitting teams. Otherwise no.
I agree somewhat. But being a lefty in YS has got to boost his performance a little....

oneill96
07-23-08, 08:37 AM
I'd do it for Igawa and second level prospect in a minute! But I don't know if Seattle wants to eat that much cash for that much crap?!?!

YanksFanTillDeath
07-23-08, 08:39 AM
I'd do it for Igawa and second level prospect in a minute! But I don't know if Seattle wants to eat that much cash for that much crap?!?!

Igawa Cash? cmon dude 4 mil aint nothing

BRONXBOMBERS06
07-23-08, 08:43 AM
Quick Splits
VS. LEFT: .250 / .646 VS. RIGHT: .315 / .876 HOME: .307 / .888 AWAY: .292 / .769
(Stats listed are batting average and OPS against)

WHIP is 1.46

YankeePride1967
07-23-08, 08:45 AM
I realize he had a good outing last night but if Brian can find an improvement over Rasner I'd look into it (based on the cost). But Washburn isn't where I'd be looking.

Bleacher_Creature
07-23-08, 08:48 AM
Jarrod Washburn's limited no-trade protection includes the Yankees. He might want compensation to waive that, putting him out of the Yanks' price range. Washburn, a Boras client, wouldn't mind pitching in New York though. The Mariners are looking for young pitching for him. It sounds like the Yankees aren't willing to eat the entire contract and send good prospects.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

BRONXBOMBERS06
07-23-08, 08:53 AM
We all know there is not much out there, Any news on Hughes rehab ?

4bronxbombers
07-23-08, 08:56 AM
A rotation with a healthy Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte, Moose, Joba Chamberlain, and Jarrod Washburn? That's solid.

Then, if the Yankees make the playoffs, Washburn as a LOOGY from the pen?!

:drool:

RhodyYanksFan
07-23-08, 09:00 AM
A rotation with a healthy Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte, Moose, Joba Chamberlain, and Jarrod Washburn? That's solid.

Then, if the Yankees make the playoffs, Washburn as a LOOGY from the pen?!

Have the Yankees had a 100% fully healthy 5-man rotation at any point in the last 5 years?

Yankee Tripper
07-23-08, 11:02 AM
from nomaas.org




07.22.2008 We would not trade the Utz potato chip sign for...
The Yankees noticed Monday when the Mariners left-hander Jarrod Washburn held the Red Sox to two runs over five and two-thirds innings in a 4-0 loss in Seattle. Washburn is one of the pitchers the Yankees are evaluating as they approach the July 31 nonwaiver trading deadline. (Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/sports/baseball/23pins.html?ref=baseball))
Washburn has an ERA+ of 84, an OPS against of .815, a WHIP of 1.48, a K/9 of 5.32, and a FIP (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/statpages/glossary/#fip) of 4.45. He's also due to make $10.35 million in 2009. We would vomit if a trade was made for him.


Can't say as I disagree with anything they say.

YanksFan1992
07-23-08, 11:06 AM
from nomaas.org



Can't say as I disagree with anything they say.

Perhaps, but if the rumors are true we would be getting rid of Igawa in exchange for him, which I would be all for.

justtxyank
07-23-08, 11:06 AM
Man, I didn't really realize how bad he was. An ERA+ under 90?

Yankee Tripper
07-23-08, 11:10 AM
Perhaps, but if the rumors are true we would be getting rid of Igawa in exchange for him, which I would be all for.That is the only way I would like the deal at all. If we are giving up anything in the way of prospects for Wash while assuming his contract, it's too much.

Btw I don't think I'd trade the UTZ sign for Igawa so I still don't really disagree with them.:P

R.V.47
07-23-08, 12:23 PM
It seems like the yanks want the Mariners to basically just give away Washburn in a salary dump. If we could get away with that it would be a great move.

NelsonMuntz
07-23-08, 03:00 PM
Man, I didn't really realize how bad he was. An ERA+ under 90?
Yeah he's really not very good. For whatever reason he just seems to pull gems out of his a*s when he faces us. I'd only be interested in acquiring him if it rids us of Igawa.

HelloNewman
07-23-08, 04:52 PM
Man, I didn't really realize how bad he was. An ERA+ under 90?A product of an atrocious first month and a half. Apparently the "experts" at Nomaas haven't noticed he's had 8 straight good-to-excellent starts.

He's essentially a league-average lefty pitcher whose flyball tendencies might play well in Yankee Stadium.

ppa79
07-23-08, 05:14 PM
If we have to take Vidro, forget it.

yankeeman61
07-23-08, 09:23 PM
If we have to take Vidro, forget it.

Agreed: No Igawa + Vidro = No way

yankeesAZ
07-23-08, 09:26 PM
Explain the extension for Johjima when they have Clement?

OK, name the teams that would want him, his salary, and give up something better than Igawa for him.

That extension had to come from the Japanese owner who supposedly doesn't make any baseball decisions.

scooterfan
07-23-08, 09:41 PM
That extension had to come from the Japanese owner who supposedly doesn't make any baseball decisions.

Interesting point about Seattle ownership

Buster Olney (on the Michael Kay Show today) feels that the biggest impediment to the Washburn deal is the fact that the Yankees have to deal with an interim GM. He felt that if Cashman were dealing with Mark Shapiro (Cleveland) or Billy Beane, the deal might be done already.

(www.1050espnradio.com - look for the podcast from today - July 23rd)

He also thinks that a deal will take the form of a salary dump. The kind of prospect the Yankees send to Seattle will depend on how much salary relief the Mariners get.

Also - Igawa is a part of the deal only to balance money out, not b/c the Mariners see any value in him

teknetic
07-23-08, 09:47 PM
Yeah he's really not very good. For whatever reason he just seems to pull gems out of his a*s when he faces us. I'd only be interested in acquiring him if it rids us of Igawa.

2.93ERA in June
3.16ERA in July

Why did nomaas willingly leave that out? 199IP with a 4.32 last year; will it translate into the AL? probably not, but if it means shipping out Igawa (who offers absolutely nothing to this team) and getting Ponson and his smoke and mirrors act out of the rotation, why the hell not go after him?

If they're asking for Vidro to be included, then just laugh and walk away. But I think he could be a serviceable lefty in the backend of the rotation with a better offense and team behind him.

False1
07-23-08, 09:55 PM
from nomaas.org



Can't say as I disagree with anything they say.Washburn is nothing to get overly excited about, but if all it costs you is Igawa and maybe even a marginal prospect I think you have to do it. Ras looked good last night and Ponson has had some quality starts, but they've both been terribly inconsisent. As I posted earlier, if you look at Wasburn's numbers more closely he should be acquired at that price.

He seems to be the definition of a solid #4/#5 guy. The majority of his starts are quality starts, so he's going to get some wins and a lot of no decisions. Really there's only 2 games this year out of 20 where he didn't put his team in position to win or at least keep them in the game. He happens to play for an atrocious team, and his '08 numbers are heavily inflated by two atrocious starts.

The splits below play that out...

2.70 ERA in wins
2.34 ERA in ND
7.74 ERA in losses
But he's been solid over his last 10 starts...

2.93 ERA in 30 June innings
3.16 ERA in 25 July inningsAnd has pitched well at YS over the years...

2.82 ERA in 38 career innings in Yankee StadiumIf you can get this for Igawa, you have to do it. I'd probably send Ras down and he would be insurance against a Ponson melt down. When Wang comes back, see ya Ponson.

If Vidro is brought in the mix, that's a different story. That's $7.5MM of dead weight of the worst variety.

Slioman
07-23-08, 10:26 PM
The splits below play that out...

2.70 ERA in wins
2.34 ERA in ND
7.74 ERA in lossesSidney Ponson has a 2.11 ERA in wins this year.
Given the small sample size, and just how the stat works, I wouldn't use it in an argument.

NelsonMuntz
07-23-08, 10:50 PM
2.93ERA in June
3.16ERA in July

Why did nomaas willingly leave that out? 199IP with a 4.32 last year; will it translate into the AL? probably not, but if it means shipping out Igawa (who offers absolutely nothing to this team) and getting Ponson and his smoke and mirrors act out of the rotation, why the hell not go after him?

If they're asking for Vidro to be included, then just laugh and walk away. But I think he could be a serviceable lefty in the backend of the rotation with a better offense and team behind him.
It would be unwise to make a decision based on two months of data. Washburn really has not been a good pitcher since 2002. That being said, I'd still do a straight swap for Igawa but it doesn't sound like Seattle is interested in that deal.

scooterfan
07-23-08, 11:23 PM
Pete Abraham is reporting this:
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/07/24/trade-talks-in-tampa-today/


One trade the Yankees could make now if they wanted would be Kei Igawa and a B-level prospect to Seattle for LHP Jarrod Washburn and DH/1B Jose Vidro. The Yankees would take on $16 million (plus a $500,000 buyout for Vidro) while shedding the $9.4 million owed to Igawa

This is pretty much what Gammons and Olney said, and exactly what Ed Price and Dan Graziano reported in the Newark Star Ledger earlier this week

cyhughes22
07-23-08, 11:29 PM
Makes sense to me even without getting rid of Igawa. Once you factor that in too it just becomes obvious that you do it IMO. See if they'll take Pavano too:P.

YanksFan1992
07-23-08, 11:31 PM
Makes sense to me even without getting rid of Igawa. Once you factor that in too it just becomes obvious that you do it IMO. See if they'll take Pavano too:P.

Just give give Pavano a nice Japanese nickname and I'm sure the Mariners owner would be all for it. ;)

continentalg5
07-23-08, 11:32 PM
Pavanosan...would that cut it?

Tyler Durden
07-23-08, 11:46 PM
Pete Abraham is reporting this:
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/07/24/trade-talks-in-tampa-today/

This is pretty much what Gammons and Olney said, and exactly what Ed Price and Dan Graziano reported in the Newark Star Ledger earlier this week

So if this trade were to happen, the Yankees would be adding a pitcher who is on the downside of his career, adding another 1B/DH type player who would have little to no role on this team AND give up a semi-decent prospect while taking on an additonal $6.6 million in overall salary? :confused:

I know there's not much out there right now in terms of pitching, but I certainly hope Cashman can find a better deal than this.

flymick24
07-23-08, 11:47 PM
vidro does nothing for us.. washburn is below average (kennedy might be able to give us similar if not better production from the #4 or 5 spot)

teknetic
07-23-08, 11:52 PM
It would be unwise to make a decision based on two months of data. Washburn really has not been a good pitcher since 2002. That being said, I'd still do a straight swap for Igawa but it doesn't sound like Seattle is interested in that deal.

To say he sucks because of two months of sub-par performance isn't wise either. He's better than Ponson and Rasner by a longshot and we'll be getting rid of absolute dead weight in the process.

I don't really care either way at this point, but I really would prefer to not see Ponson on the mound any longer.

southernNYYfan
07-24-08, 12:34 AM
Abraham makes it seem like if the Yanks were to acquire Vidro they would immediately buy him out, so he would be nothing more than a salary dump, if that is the case then take the "B" level prospect out and make it a D level prospect or a career minor leaguer IMO. Although the Igawa-Washburn swap is to good to pass up...

Yankees1962
07-24-08, 05:01 AM
Abraham makes it seem like if the Yanks were to acquire Vidro they would immediately buy him out, so he would be nothing more than a salary dump, if that is the case then take the "B" level prospect out and make it a D level prospect or a career minor leaguer IMO. Although the Igawa-Washburn swap is to good to pass up...
The only problem is that Vidro has a limited no-trade clause in his contract plus a vesting option for 2009. He negotiated that vesting option when he was traded from Washington to the Mariners because of his limited no-trade clause.

So we have two players with limited no-trade clauses that probably want something in return for being traded. I think this trade is going no-where because the Yankees aren't about to give these players any additional financial inducements.

Dannman103
07-24-08, 08:49 AM
From Peter Abraham:


Washburn’s last eight starts: 51 IP, 54 H, 15 ER, 16 BB, 29 K, 2.65 ERA .722 opposing OPS.

Rasner’s last eight starts: 42.1 IP, 60 H 30 ER 17 BB 29 K, 6.38 ERA, .914 opposing OPS.


I think of the pitching options out there, he'd be the best one available, and won't cost much to get other than $$.

Dannman103
07-24-08, 08:50 AM
The only problem is that Vidro has a limited no-trade clause in his contract plus a vesting option for 2009. He negotiated that vesting option when he was traded from Washington to the Mariners because of his limited no-trade clause.

So we have two players with limited no-trade clauses that probably want something in return for being traded. I think this trade is going no-where because the Yankees aren't about to give these players any additional financial inducements.

You'd think it would be enough inducement just to be away from the Mariners' debacle.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-24-08, 08:56 AM
From Peter Abraham:



I think of the pitching options out there, he'd be the best one available, and won't cost much to get other than $$.

While that may be true, it's likely that he is going to regress to his career numbers, so I am not sure just looking at his recent starts is the best comparison

ppa79
07-24-08, 08:57 AM
I have a feeling the Yanks will get Washburn for Igawa and a low level prospect.

THEBOSS84
07-24-08, 09:27 AM
Rotoworld:


Jarrod Washburn said Wednesday that he would "strongly consider" waiving his limited no-trade clause.
Washburn can't block a trade to teams like the White Sox or Cardinals anyway, but could nix a deal to the Yankees. "I love it here in Seattle," Washburn said. "But at the same time I love to win."

http://rotoworld.com/

Yankees1962
07-24-08, 09:40 AM
You'd think it would be enough inducement just to be away from the Mariners' debacle.
You would hope that's all it would take, but I know very little about Washburn so we'll see what happens next with him.

Dannman103
07-24-08, 09:40 AM
Man, can the trade deadline get here already? I love to see what kind of trades end up going down, but the waiting and wondering gets annoying. I want something to happen!

Yankees1962
07-24-08, 09:41 AM
While that may be true, it's likely that he is going to regress to his career numbers, so I am not sure just looking at his recent starts is the best comparison
His career numbers are better than anything we currently have ready to pitch in that spot now.

NelsonMuntz
07-24-08, 09:48 AM
To say he sucks because of two months of sub-par performance isn't wise either. He's better than Ponson and Rasner by a longshot and we'll be getting rid of absolute dead weight in the process.

I don't really care either way at this point, but I really would prefer to not see Ponson on the mound any longer.
I didn't base anything on two months of data. I'm basing my opinion on his performance over the last 5 seasons. He's really not that good. But once again, if it rids us of Igawa and doesn't cost us any legitimate prospects I'm open to it. He does seem to have the ability to pull a gem out of his arse every now and then.

RhodyYanksFan
07-24-08, 10:51 AM
Man, I didn't really realize how bad he was. An ERA+ under 90?

What does that mean?

Dannman103
07-24-08, 10:56 AM
What does that mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjusted_ERA%2B


Adjusted ERA+, often simply abbreviated to ERA+, is a statistic in baseball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball). It adjusts a pitcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcher)'s ERA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_Run_Average) according to the pitcher's ballpark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballpark) (does it favor batters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batter_%28baseball%29) or pitchers) and the ERA of the pitcher's league. Average is set to be 100; a score above 100 indicates the pitcher performed better than average, below 100 indicates worse than average.

Dannman103
07-24-08, 11:00 AM
Here are the ERA+ for the current Yankee rotation:

Joba: 163 (as both a starter and reliever, probably lower as a starter)
Mussina: 126
Pettitte: 107
Ponson: 94 with Yankees, 103 overall
Rasner: 85

Bleacher_Creature
07-24-08, 12:31 PM
Latest On Yankees-Washburn Talks (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/latest-on-yanke.html)

By Tim Dierkes [July 24 at 11:12am CST]
According to Peter Abraham (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/07/24/trade-talks-in-tampa-today/):

One trade the Yankees could make now if they wanted would be Kei Igawa and a B-level prospect to Seattle for LHP Jarrod Washburn and DH/1B Jose Vidro. The Yankees would take on $16 million (plus a $500,000 buyout for Vidro) while shedding the $9.4 million owed to Igawa.
So for roughly $7.1 million, you get Washburn for this year and next and Vidro for this season. Washburn would likely want something to waive his no-trade clause, which includes the Yankees.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

R.V.47
07-24-08, 12:32 PM
Latest On Yankees-Washburn Talks (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/latest-on-yanke.html)

By Tim Dierkes [July 24 at 11:12am CST]
According to Peter Abraham (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/07/24/trade-talks-in-tampa-today/):

One trade the Yankees could make now if they wanted would be Kei Igawa and a B-level prospect to Seattle for LHP Jarrod Washburn and DH/1B Jose Vidro. The Yankees would take on $16 million (plus a $500,000 buyout for Vidro) while shedding the $9.4 million owed to Igawa.
So for roughly $7.1 million, you get Washburn for this year and next and Vidro for this season. Washburn would likely want something to waive his no-trade clause, which includes the Yankees.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Interesting so we dont actually have to take Vidro? Thats important because that would kill the deal for me if we had to take him.

teknetic
07-24-08, 12:32 PM
While that may be true, it's likely that he is going to regress to his career numbers, so I am not sure just looking at his recent starts is the best comparison

Him regressing to his career numbers in all likelihood is a better bet than Rasner (who hits a brick wall after 5 innings)

Bleacher_Creature
07-24-08, 12:37 PM
Interesting so we dont actually have to take Vidro? Thats important because that would kill the deal for me if we had to take him.

If we do we could DFA him...according to the article.

Yankee Tripper
07-24-08, 05:47 PM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/yankees_talks_on_seattle_lefty.html

Speculation but Melky & Brett mentioned as possible candidates in this article.

JL25and3
07-24-08, 05:52 PM
Interesting so we dont actually have to take Vidro? Thats important because that would kill the deal for me if we had to take him.The buyout isn't of this year's contract; they'd be stuck with that. It's a buyout of his option for next year, if it's vested. But apparently it would take 600 PA for that to vest, and he's not going to get 600 PA this year.

In any case, I want no part of Jose Vidro. I'd rather skip the deal entirely than have them spend a month seeing if he's the bat that can help them.

Hobbes40
07-24-08, 06:03 PM
No Jose Vidro, please.

teknetic
07-24-08, 06:06 PM
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/yankees_talks_on_seattle_lefty.html

Speculation but Melky & Brett mentioned as possible candidates in this article.

That's fine, Jackson is gonna replace one of them come September :)

Yankee Tripper
07-24-08, 06:07 PM
That's fine, Jackson is gonna replace one of them come September :)I can't wait for September 2009. ;)

THEBOSS84
07-24-08, 06:09 PM
This story is boring already.

teknetic
07-24-08, 06:09 PM
If he continues murdering the ball, would it be out of the question to call him up so he can get a taste of big league experience? They could start him in AAA next year and bring him up.

I don't know if you were kidding with the "September" portion of your comment, but I can't imagine him being down there that long.

THEBOSS84
07-24-08, 06:13 PM
]If he continues murdering the ball, would it be out of the question to call him up so he can get a taste of big league experience?[/B] They could start him in AAA next year and bring him up.

I don't know if you were kidding with the "September" portion of your comment, but I can't imagine him being down there that long.

Not at all out of the question. I'd actually love it assuming he doesn't rot on the bench or hinder his development at all in that final month.

Cheesyhoboe
07-24-08, 06:14 PM
He's not "murdering the ball". He has a 837 OPS down there, which is impressive for a 21 year old in AA, but not eye popping.

Hobie
07-24-08, 06:15 PM
Him regressing to his career numbers in all likelihood is a better bet than Rasner (who hits a brick wall after 5 innings)

RLYWB looked into the possible SP candidates and compared them to Ponson/Rasner. Seems that Washburn would not be much of an upgrade (if at all) over Rasner.

teknetic
07-24-08, 06:20 PM
He's not "murdering the ball". He has a 837 OPS down there, which is impressive for a 21 year old in AA, but not eye popping.

When I said "mudering the ball" I kinda was talking about this month. Didn't feel I had to explain myself there. Is he gonna keep it up? doubt it, but I don't expect him to drastically cool off either. In fact, wasn't July the month where he blew up last year? He was named FSL player of the month.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8349/ajaxsz3.png


RLYWB looked into the possible SP candidates and compared them to Ponson/Rasner. Seems that Washburn would not be much of an upgrade (if at all) over Rasner.

I just want Igawa off this team and Ponson's perephials make me wanna hurl.

Yankee Tripper
07-24-08, 06:21 PM
He's not "murdering the ball". He has a 837 OPS down there, which is impressive for a 21 year old in AA, but not eye popping.
He is "murdering the ball" in July 1.023 OPS - Small sample and hitting Cano like post all-star break even smaller sample 1.454 OPS. Still I'd be surpised to see Mr. Jackson in the bronx before the middle of next year and think a September 09 cup of coffee followed by a 2010 audtion for regular playing time more likely.

Cheesyhoboe
07-24-08, 06:23 PM
I know about his hot July, but I would've thought it would be way too small of a sample size for anyone to say that he's been "murdering the ball". Eh, I doubt they're going to have him just skip AAA, they seem a bit afraid of rushing prospects now.

teknetic
07-24-08, 06:27 PM
I know about his hot July, but I would've thought it would be way too small of a sample size for anyone to say that he's been "murdering the ball". Eh, I doubt they're going to have him just skip AAA, they seem a bit afraid of rushing prospects now.

I'm not pleading for him to completely skip AAA, but if he continues to rake, why not bring him up to get a sip? He can start next year there. 2010 IMO is pushing it, but we've already had that argument.

Yankee Tripper
07-24-08, 06:29 PM
I'm not pleading for him to completely skip AAA, but if he continues to rake, why not bring him up to get a sip? He can start next year there. 2010 IMO is pushing it, but we've already had that argument.
Other than 40 man considerations and burning an option year for him there is little downside to him getting a cup of coffee in September 2008 after MiLB season is done, however both 40 man considerations and the option are not small concerns.

scooterfan
07-24-08, 06:42 PM
RLYWB looked into the possible SP candidates and compared them to Ponson/Rasner. Seems that Washburn would not be much of an upgrade (if at all) over Rasner.

It might be good to look at his season splits:
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_gamebygamelog.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=132220&statType=2

Over June and July, his ERA is about 3; his WHIP over that period isn't super, but he's averaging 6+ innings a start over those 9 starts.

Sounds like a solid #4 or 5 starter who has playoff experience.

The one aberration? A start against Detroit - May 21st - where he gave up 9 runs in 2 1/3 innings, after skipping a start (pitched one inning between May 10th and May 21st)

primetime714
07-24-08, 07:39 PM
If Washburn wasn't signed for 10M next year I'd be all about this deal. I just think his salary and presence in the rotation will be a hinderance on 2009.

Taking on Vidro in the deal is basically the M's asking us to give them more money which the Yankees really shouldn't have to do here.

If we could trade for Washburn and then trade him again in the offseason that would be great as he'll only help us this year. Next year he'd probably just hold us back.

groundhoggator
07-24-08, 08:18 PM
If Washburn wasn't signed for 10M next year I'd be all about this deal. I just think his salary and presence in the rotation will be a hinderance on 2009.

Taking on Vidro in the deal is basically the M's asking us to give them more money which the Yankees really shouldn't have to do here.

If we could trade for Washburn and then trade him again in the offseason that would be great as he'll only help us this year. Next year he'd probably just hold us back.

I don't see Washburn holding back... consider Hughes AND Kennedy both being injured have hurt their development back w/ # of innings under their belt, causing them to be unable to go a full load in 2009. Worse case - trade Washburn midyear.

genius-24
07-24-08, 10:17 PM
For those of you who don't know,

Kennedy's outing today,
7IP,1H,1R,0ER,0BB, 11/3=GO/FO, 92 pitches w/ 61 for strikes.


Seems like he can be a option...

dont_ya_know24
07-24-08, 10:32 PM
For those of you who don't know,

Kennedy's outing today,
7IP,1H,1R,0ER,0BB, 11/3=GO/FO, 92 pitches w/ 61 for strikes.


Seems like he can be a option...

i agree. this trade doesn't really do anything for me. i would rather give kennedy and aceves shots. (hughes should be left in the minors until september when the season is over in scranton.) wang could also be back then.

freddy carcia also seems like a better option since we won't have to pay him 10 million dollars next year, unlike washburn.

Matsui55
07-25-08, 12:16 AM
I look at it this way- the Yanks got BADLY burned the last two years by being short on starting pitching to start the year.

Cashman is trying to be proactive to be sure that the Yanks will have 6-7 SP available next spring. Best case scenario is that everyone stays healthy and someone has to go to AAA or go to the pen. Worst case scenario is that the Yanks have 2 more guys go down- and have the depth to fill in the holes for once without relying on the Sidney Ponson's of the world.

Look, the Yanks are going to shed a LOT of money this winter, and if they can subtract the long term dead weight of Igawa, while taking on a mere one more season of Washburn, so long as the second player/prospect is not a top 20 prospect, I would be willing to give up one player to be sure I have that extra arm for the rotation next spring.

Think of it this way- if Hughes is healthy, he still might need to start the year in AAA to build arm strength and innings. What if Wang's foot injury lingers? What if CC, Sheets and all the top FA pitchers reject the Yanks and go elsewhere? What's plan B?

Washburn isn't exciting, and he's a 4 at best, 5 at worst. We are running worse pitchers out there right now in Ponson and Rasner. I'd rather have the extra starter or two out there in April than waste a month scrambling next year.

Zimmer's Helmet
07-25-08, 12:25 AM
According to Heyman over at www.cnnsi.com ; Seattle is now demanding for Melky and Gardner in return for Washburn.. if true, Cashman should run, not walk away; from talks.

flymick24
07-25-08, 12:25 AM
if only igawa could pitch to an ERA+ around 90...

flymick24
07-25-08, 12:32 AM
According to Heyman over at www.cnnsi.com (http://www.cnnsi.com) ; Seattle is now demanding for Melky and Gardner in return for Washburn.. if true, Cashman should run, not walk away; from talks.

heyman has a lot of good sources, but he's also known to pull a lot of stuff out of his ass.. i wouldn't be surprised if this nugget wasn't also one of those imagination turds

seattle is dumb, but they're not THAT dumb

False1
07-25-08, 12:37 AM
According to Heyman over at www.cnnsi.com (http://www.cnnsi.com) ; Seattle is now demanding for Melky and Gardner in return for Washburn.. if true, Cashman should run, not walk away; from talks.I would agree with that, even though I've lost a lot of confidence in Melky and Brett hasn't really impressed (haven't given up on him though).

This deal is only a do-er if we unload Igawa and his remaining $8MM, and maybe sprinkle a middling prospect in. Having to take back Vidro or put in anyone of real value in addition to Igawa doesn't make too much sense.

I maintain that I'd much prefer Washburn to either Ras or Ponson, but the performance difference he'd bring is not worth either of those players.

Bleacher_Creature
07-25-08, 08:20 AM
According to Heyman over at www.cnnsi.com (http://www.cnnsi.com) ; Seattle is now demanding for Melky and Gardner in return for Washburn.. if true, Cashman should run, not walk away; from talks.

5:36pm: According to Ed Price of the Newark Star-Ledger (http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/yankees_talks_on_seattle_lefty.html), talks have progressed on a possible Washburn-Yankees trade. Price says the Ms aren't sold on Kei Igawa, but the Yankees are willing to discuss Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

I hope this crap isn't true.....

Ghost of Dan Pasqua
07-25-08, 08:26 AM
5:36pm: According to Ed Price of the Newark Star-Ledger (http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/07/yankees_talks_on_seattle_lefty.html), talks have progressed on a possible Washburn-Yankees trade. Price says the Ms aren't sold on Kei Igawa, but the Yankees are willing to discuss Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

I hope this crap isn't true.....

One correction, it's Melky or Gardner, not both. Kind of hard to replace both a center fielder and left fielder in one deal for a #4 starter. Regardless, I have no problems trading either Melky or Gardner. My guess is that the Yankees are going to come out of this deadline with a back of the rotation starter, a backup catcher, and a "name" left fielder.

If I had to guess, we'll see the following:

- Washburn for Melky/Gardner and maybe a low level prospect
- Bard for Igawa and low prospect
- Jason Bay for Kennedy and other prospects

Dannman103
07-25-08, 08:40 AM
For those of you who don't know,

Kennedy's outing today,
7IP,1H,1R,0ER,0BB, 11/3=GO/FO, 92 pitches w/ 61 for strikes.


Seems like he can be a option...

Didn't he have a very good outing in Scranton when he was sent down there to "get right" earlier this season? Then he got called back up and stunk again. I don't know, I'm still not sold on Ian.

NewEraYanks2527
07-25-08, 08:45 AM
Didn't he have a very good outing in Scranton when he was sent down there to "get right" earlier this season? Then he got called back up and stunk again. I don't know, I'm still not sold on Ian.

I dont think he got called back up, I think he had an injury set back. I really can't recall.

Dannman103
07-25-08, 08:47 AM
I dont think he got called back up, I think he had an injury set back. I really can't recall.

Yeah, come to think, you could be right. I don't know, the beginning of the season seems like long time ago.

ppa79
07-25-08, 09:00 AM
According to Heyman over at www.cnnsi.com (http://www.cnnsi.com) ; Seattle is now demanding for Melky and Gardner in return for Washburn.. if true, Cashman should run, not walk away; from talks.

Forget it then, Washburn for Igawa or we walk away. Its not like we need Washburn to put us over the top.

Bleacher_Creature
07-25-08, 09:02 AM
One correction, it's Melky or Gardner, not both. Kind of hard to replace both a center fielder and left fielder in one deal for a #4 starter. Regardless, I have no problems trading either Melky or Gardner. My guess is that the Yankees are going to come out of this deadline with a back of the rotation starter, a backup catcher, and a "name" left fielder.

If I had to guess, we'll see the following:

- Washburn for Melky/Gardner and maybe a low level prospect
- Bard for Igawa and low prospect
- Jason Bay for Kennedy and other prospects

I was going with the articles which said 'and'. I'd rather trade Gardner and hold on to Melky. I know I'm in the minority. He gives us something this team has not had in decades, and thats a CF with a strong throwing arm. If he could hit .280 on this team with his defense I'll take that. I remember when the Angel's use to run circles around the bases on Bernie and Damon's arms, I don't think that will happen this yr with Molina catching and Melky at CF.

4bronxbombers
07-25-08, 09:06 AM
Rotoworld: Quote:

Jarrod Washburn said Wednesday that he would "strongly consider" waiving his limited no-trade clause.
Washburn can't block a trade to teams like the White Sox or Cardinals anyway, but could nix a deal to the Yankees. "I love it here in Seattle," Washburn said. "But at the same time I love to win."

http://rotoworld.com/

I'd love to have Washburn but not for Melky and Gardner.

THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 09:09 AM
I don't really care for either Melky or Gardner. Only one of them has a future with this franchise, if any at all.

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-25-08, 09:11 AM
I was going with the articles which said 'and'. I'd rather trade Gardner and hold on to Melky. I know I'm in the minority. He gives us something this team has not had in decades, and thats a CF with a strong throwing arm. If he could hit .280 on this team with his defense I'll take that. I remember when the Angel's use to run circles around the bases on Bernie and Damon's arms, I don't think that will happen this yr with Molina catching and Melky at CF.

I am not sure you are in a minority. I am not as high on Gardner as others, but I don't think the marginal improvement with a Washburn is going to make us that much better if Damon (armwise) or Gardner (offense) is patrolling CF for us. Removing Melky from the mix would make us weaker now, which is what acquiring Washburn would be about. I think Seattle may be pricing themselves out of this (or, maybe the price was always this high, and just misreported -- hard to know).

NewEraYanks2527
07-25-08, 09:18 AM
Hawkins and Igawa for Washburn. 2 crappy pitchers for 1, really it's quantitiy not quality.

4bronxbombers
07-25-08, 09:18 AM
Hawkins and Igawa for Washburn. 2 crappy pitchers for 1, really it's quantitiy not quality.

I would love that trade!

NelsonMuntz
07-25-08, 09:31 AM
Absolutely no f'ing way should we trade Melky or Gardner for Washburn. It's not that I'm completely opposed to trading either of them, but save them for a better deal. Washburn is simply not that good and this is a salary dump for Seattle.

False1
07-25-08, 09:39 AM
Absolutely no f'ing way should we trade Melky or Gardner for Washburn. It's not that I'm completely opposed to trading either of them, but save them for a better deal. Washburn is simply not that good and this is a salary dump for Seattle.I agree. I think Washburn would perform well for the stretch run in New York, but I don't see taking on his contract and giving back actual talent. I'm down on Melky and Gardner has struggled, but no way I move either of those guys AND take on Burn's salary.

Take Igawa and a middling prospect and be gone with you, Mariners!

Or, let's throw Ibanez' name in there as well and we can start talking about actual talent.

Dannman103
07-25-08, 09:47 AM
My guess is that the Yankees weren't interesting in taking on Vidro along with Washburn, so as a response, the Mariners said they'd take Vidro out if they got Melky or Gardner back as well. Pure speculation, but it makes sense to me. They want to dump salary, but if they can't, the asking price goes up.

NYKforever
07-25-08, 09:59 AM
Do not give up Melky or Gardner in any deal for Jared freakin' Washburn. Take Vidro back if necessary and throw them Igawa like the original trade said. Washburn is nothing amazing and certainly not worth giving up someone legit over.

Bleacher_Creature
07-25-08, 10:07 AM
The Yankees are the most serious player for Jarrod Washburn and would take him as a salary dump (his 2009 pay will be $10.35 million). But Seattle is asking now for Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner, a non-starter for the Yankees.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/07/24/scoop.dodgers/1.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/07/24/scoop.dodgers/1.html)

CyYoung4Vazquez
07-25-08, 10:17 AM
I wonder how many teams (when negotiating with the Yankees) use the Red Sox as leverage?

YanksFan1992
07-25-08, 10:56 AM
seattle is dumb, but they're not THAT dumbSadly, they are. The whole organization is a mess, and firing just Bavasi and McLaren isn't going to fix that. Pretty much everyone in the front office needs to go for the Mariners to get back on track.

continentalg5
07-25-08, 12:30 PM
Is this deal goes through, Cashman should make sure he is as far away from New York as possible and never come back.

dont_ya_know24
07-25-08, 01:40 PM
forget this deal.
melky has been struggling, yes, but i haven't given up on him yet. he is still plenty young...

Ynkcpt23
07-25-08, 01:49 PM
If Washburn wasn't signed for 10M next year I'd be all about this deal. I just think his salary and presence in the rotation will be a hinderance on 2009.

Taking on Vidro in the deal is basically the M's asking us to give them more money which the Yankees really shouldn't have to do here.

If we could trade for Washburn and then trade him again in the offseason that would be great as he'll only help us this year. Next year he'd probably just hold us back.

I agree with that assessment. I know they want to dump some salary commitments, but aren't we already doing that for them by taking Washburn off of their hands??

Yankee Fan in Boston
07-25-08, 01:51 PM
I agree with that assessment. I know they want to dump some salary commitments, but aren't we already doing that for them by taking Washburn off of their hands??

Not if they're taking on 4 years of Igawa at $4 million/per

genius-24
07-25-08, 01:53 PM
I just hope yanks don't overrate/overpay Jarrod b.c he has done good against us and good in this stadium.

Melky is bad but I wound't trade him for Washburn & his salary. On top of that, we suddenly create a large hole in our CF which will be filled by lowly Gardner who is far worst then Melky who already is bad.

Ynkcpt23
07-25-08, 01:54 PM
Not if they're taking on 4 years of Igawa at $4 million/per

True, but isn't Washburn owed upwards of $10 million for next year alone?

gregzzy22
07-25-08, 02:13 PM
Melky AND Brett would be horrendous.

Taking on Washburn's salary should be good enough, I wouldn't even give up Melky or Gardner ALONE.

primetime714
07-25-08, 02:24 PM
Is it just me or is getting rid of Igawa one of the most attractive parts of this deal. I really don't want Washburn that much because I feel like that 10M (or 6M if you subtract Igawa's salary) would be better spent on more deserving players like Moose or Pettitte.

Washburn would probably help this year, but I'm more inclined to go with what we have than to get him. Kennedy is making progress in AAA. Aceves and McCutchen both are close. Ponson and Rasner certainly scare me, but how much better do we really feel with Washburn? Would we really want him starting a playoff game?

I'd rather stick with what we have, give Kennedy another shot, and hope that Hughes and/or Wang can come back and be effective late in the year and in the playoffs.

Let's definitely still try to dump Igawa's salary. If SD is interested I think Igawa and another prospect for Bard makes sense.

THEBOSS84
07-25-08, 02:33 PM
Joel Sherman:


As for Kei Igawa being part of the Jarrod Washburn discussions, one team official said that just was not correct. If the Yanks are going to get salary relief on Washburn's 2009 salary it is not going to be by getting Igawa taken in the deal. It is going to be by the Mariners eating a portion of that contract.

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/07/3_up_the_mets_a.html

southernNYYfan
07-25-08, 02:59 PM
Cash should ask for Putz or Morrow, :lol: Gimmie a break Melky and Gardner for Washbrun? While Washburn is $10.35 next year...

primetime714
07-25-08, 03:02 PM
Joel Sherman:



http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/07/3_up_the_mets_a.html

If true, I definitely want no part of this deal. Half the benefit of this deal was dumping Igawa. I don't think Washburn makes us all that much better.

scooterfan
07-25-08, 03:39 PM
If true, I definitely want no part of this deal. Half the benefit of this deal was dumping Igawa. I don't think Washburn makes us all that much better.

The one guy in the organization who might know Washburn pretty well is Rafael Chaves - Scranton's pitching coach, and former PC for the Mariners

I'd be curious to hear his opinion on Washburn

Jason Stark is reporting that the Yankees view this deal as a pure salary dump:
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3505280&name=mlb_trade_deadline&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3505280%26name%3dmlb_trade_deadline


It looks to me like the Yankees are looking only for salary dumps, and don't think there's anyone available right now worth paying the going price in prospects

HelloNewman
07-25-08, 04:56 PM
Jason Stark is reporting that the Yankees view this deal as a pure salary dump:
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3505280&name=mlb_trade_deadline&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3505280%26name%3dmlb_trade_deadline

I'm glad the Yankees are sticking to their guns (the Melky AND Gardner thing was insane), but I'd still welcome Washburn if Seattle will be reasonable and take some salary relief and a warm body from the minors.