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wang+cano=future
05-27-08, 01:55 PM
Okay lets say we don't sign a Type A free agent. We will have our first rounder plus the ones we get from walking free agents. I was curious though which ones we can really expect draft picks from, and what type of pick they will yield.

I am assuming arbitration will not be offered to Giambi, Farnsworth, Pavano. Pettitte will either re-sign or retire. So I am thinking we can only realistically expect picks from Moose and Abreu right? So possibly an extra first rounder for Type A Abreu (if the pick isnt protected) and a supplemental for Moose?

Does that sound right to people?

THEBOSS84
05-27-08, 01:57 PM
I definitely think that we can net a type B compensation for Farnsworth (if he continues to pitch as he had been prior to the Met fiasco) - he would not accept arb from us since there will most definitely be a 2 year offer out there for him.

primetime714
05-27-08, 03:08 PM
Abreu- Type A
Farnsworth- Type B (if he really picks it up outside shot at Type A)
Hawkins- won't be offered arbitration
Pavano- won't be offered arbitration
Giambi- won't be offered arbitration
Moose- won't be offered arbitration
Pettitte- wouldn't sign anywhere else

However all of this is moot because we'll undoubtedly sign at least one or two Type A's/B's which will give us the same or less picks than we had to start with.

indianyanksfan
05-27-08, 03:15 PM
why not offer arb to giambi and moose? they wont accept it if they have good final numbers because there will be a team or two which will offer them more money and possibly years.

ArodMVP217
05-27-08, 03:21 PM
Steve Strasburg, lol

maybe they would initiate draft pick trades for 09

THEBOSS84
05-27-08, 03:21 PM
Abreu- Type A
Farnsworth- Type B (if he really picks it up outside shot at Type A)
Hawkins- won't be offered arbitration
Pavano- won't be offered arbitration
Giambi- won't be offered arbitration
Moose- won't be offered arbitration
Pettitte- wouldn't sign anywhere else

However all of this is moot because we'll undoubtedly sign at least one or two Type A's/B's which will give us the same or less picks than we had to start with.

We'd get two picks for Abreu and possibly one or two for Farns. If we sign one type A we only lose one pick. If we sign any type B's we lose zero picks.

primetime714
05-27-08, 03:22 PM
why not offer arb to giambi and moose? they wont accept it if they have good final numbers because there will be a team or two which will offer them more money and possibly years.

They absolutely 100% would accept it. If you offer a player arbitration they can recieve no less than 75% of what they make now. So for Giambi you're looking at about 17M and Moose at least 9M. They're not going to get better offers elsewhere and both players love being on this team.

indianyanksfan
05-27-08, 03:23 PM
They absolutely 100% would accept it. If you offer a player arbitration they can recieve no less than 75% of what they make now. So for Giambi you're looking at about 17M and Moose at least 9M. They're not going to get better offers elsewhere and both players love being on this team.

doh! well that sucks. :mad:

Mr. Mxylsplk
05-27-08, 03:24 PM
They absolutely 100% would accept it. If you offer a player arbitration they can recieve no less than 75% of what they make now. So for Giambi you're looking at about 17M and Moose at least 9M. They're not going to get better offers elsewhere and both players love being on this team.
That only applies to players under a team's control, not free-agent eligible players who have been offered arbitration. Neither Moose nor Giambi would have any floor on what they could be offered in arb. (Which is not to say I think they'd decline arbitration - I agree with you that they'd both very likely accept).

primetime714
05-27-08, 03:25 PM
We'd get two picks for Abreu and possibly one or two for Farns. If we sign one type A we only lose one pick. If we sign any type B's we lose zero picks.

You are correct, that's my bad.

Question: What happens if we let Abreu go and sign both Sabathia and Teixeira? Do we have to give up the first rounder we receive from Abreu for one of them and our own for the other? Or can we only give up our own picks and not picks awarded through compensation?

THEBOSS84
05-27-08, 03:27 PM
You are correct, that's my bad.

Question: What happens if we let Abreu go and sign both Sabathia and Teixeira? Do we have to give up the first rounder we receive from Abreu for one of them and our own for the other? Or can we only give up our own picks and not picks awarded through compensation?

I would definitely think option B.

primetime714
05-27-08, 03:27 PM
That only applies to players under a team's control, not free-agent eligible players who have been offered arbitration. Neither Moose nor Giambi would have any floor on what they could be offered in arb. (Which is not to say I think they'd decline arbitration - I agree with you that they'd both very likely accept).

Really? I thought it did apply to FA eligible players. Cause I remember this same issue coming up when Bernie's contract came off the books. I'm probably wrong though. But yea both Giambi and Moose would probably accept arbitration if the team wanted them back regardless of if there was a floor or not.

wang+cano=future
05-27-08, 03:27 PM
You are correct, that's my bad.

Question: What happens if we let Abreu go and sign both Sabathia and Teixeira? Do we have to give up the first rounder we receive from Abreu for one of them and our own for the other? Or can we only give up our own picks and not picks awarded through compensation?

I think if we sign Texiera and Sabathia we would only lose our 1 first round pick and still keep the Abreu pick.

primetime714
05-27-08, 03:30 PM
I think if we sign Texiera and Sabathia we would only lose our 1 first round pick and still keep the Abreu pick.

Yea but what would happen to the team that didn't get our first, would they get an extra sandwich pick, our 2nd round pick, our 2010 1st rounder, or nothing? They'd have to get something, right?

Mr. Mxylsplk
05-27-08, 03:30 PM
Really? I thought it did apply to FA eligible players. Cause I remember this same issue coming up when Bernie's contract came off the books. I'm probably wrong though. But yea both Giambi and Moose would probably accept arbitration if the team wanted them back regardless of if there was a floor or not.
If you go the section of the CBA on free agency, starting on page 70, you'll see in part 3, on the bottom of page 72, that the rules on maximum salary reduction do not apply.

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

THEBOSS84
05-27-08, 03:31 PM
If you go the section of the CBA on free agency, starting on page 70, you'll see in part 3, on the bottom of page 72, that the rules on maximum salary reduction do not apply.

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

This is the second time you were able to bust this out in a week. Good thing you saved it to your desktop ;)

Mr. Mxylsplk
05-27-08, 03:33 PM
This is the second time you were able to bust this out in a week. Good thing you saved it to your desktop ;)
It took me awhile to find it the first time, so I was pretty psyched to be able to pull it out again so soon. :)

primetime714
05-27-08, 03:35 PM
If you go the section of the CBA on free agency, starting on page 70, you'll see in part 3, on the bottom of page 72, that the rules on maximum salary reduction do not apply.

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

Interesting. Thanks for posting and clearing that up.

wang+cano=future
05-27-08, 03:36 PM
Yea but what would happen to the team that didn't get our first, would they get an extra sandwich pick, our 2nd round pick, our 2010 1st rounder, or nothing? They'd have to get something, right?

Haha that is a good question. I am sure they get atleast a sandwhich pick but am not sure what exactly it is....

THEBOSS84
05-27-08, 03:37 PM
Haha that is a good question. I am sure they get atleast a sandwhich pick but am not sure what exactly it is....

I am pretty sure the team with the better record from which we took their FA, gets our 2nd rounder.

primetime714
05-27-08, 03:42 PM
Haha that is a good question. I am sure they get atleast a sandwhich pick but am not sure what exactly it is....

Ok so I looked it up on wikipedia. We give our highest pick to the team whose Type A FA's we sign (top 15 picks are excluded from compensation). So if we signed Teixeira and Sabathia the team whose player was ranked higher would get our first round pick and the team whose player was ranked lower would get our 2nd round pick. Here's the link scroll down to Compensatory Picks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Draft

Yankee Tripper
05-27-08, 03:42 PM
Interesting. Thanks for posting and clearing that up.Yeah busted that out on me in the Mussina discussion. Anyway while the 80% floor doesn't technically apply in the CBA I think the arbitrator would use that as a guide and it the team would have to have overwhelming evidence to support going below the 80% mark. Even still I'd have a hard time seeing any arbitrator even approve a 50% reduction so Mussina & Gimabi would both be very expensive and very unlikely for the Yanks to offer either arbitration. I'd be curious to know what the largest reduction percentagewise in any arbitration case that has come up so far is. I really have no clue but if someone knows what it is I'd be interested.

Mr. Mxylsplk
05-27-08, 04:21 PM
I'd be curious to know what the largest reduction percentagewise in any arbitration case that has come up so far is. I really have no clue but if someone knows what it is I'd be interested.
I don't know, but I'd be curious too. I imagine it's a pretty rare situation to begin with. The only instance I could find of a free agent going to arbitration last year was Mark Loretta, who lost, but got a small raise from $2.5 to $2.75 million. I assume if a guy had such a bad season that he'd be due for a significant paycut, a team is probably just happy to see him go and isn't likely to offer arbitration in the first place.

hockeypuck2008
05-27-08, 11:01 PM
I think if we sign Texiera and Sabathia we would only lose our 1 first round pick and still keep the Abreu pick.

you'd lose the first and second rounder. Any pick for Abreau cant be forwarded elsewhere.