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JeffWeaverFan
03-19-08, 09:10 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/18/SP74VLU7F.DTL

Popular pitchers on view: Rich Harden will start at Phoenix today, and Joe Blanton at Mesa, splitting the scouting hordes that have been watching the two all spring. Both are potential candidates to be traded, and the Yankees apparently have expressed interest in Harden, according to one source.

The A's, however, won't provide any real discount for Harden, even though he has been hurt much of the past three years. They probably would ask for right-hander Ian Kennedy, for starters, and perhaps pitchers Alan Horne and Jeff Marquez as well.

Yankee Fan in Boston
03-19-08, 09:11 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/18/SP74VLU7F.DTL

Not at that price

effdamets
03-19-08, 09:13 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/18/SP74VLU7F.DTL
The A's are smoking too many drugs. Are they kidding me?

wang+cano=future
03-19-08, 09:15 AM
Haha does that price demand from Beane really suprise anyone?

YASS
03-19-08, 09:17 AM
Who wouldn't be interested in Rich Harden?

They'll want the world for him, though.

And if there were any reason to hope he'll be healthy from now on, he'd be worth every bit of the price.

JohnnyDamonfan
03-19-08, 09:19 AM
Even though I think we do need to trade for a big name pitcher. I believe for someone like Haren it's to much. If he hadn't been injured so much I'd be all for it.

DaSh 1s
03-19-08, 09:20 AM
That price is ridiculous. Harden has not pitched one hundred innings since 2005 and even so he only logged 128 innings. Beautiful era tho 2.53 with 121 SO... IPK is a major league ready player. Billy Beane is ridiculous. This guy only has 70 innings in the past two years.

flymick24
03-19-08, 09:23 AM
the price is being speculated by the reporter... it's not what beane is actually asking for

i would take this news with a grain of salt anyway

ShaneTravis
03-19-08, 09:29 AM
Under 200 innings pitched the last 3 years combined, and they only want 2 top pitching prospects for him? That's a great deal for A's.

IPK is untouchable at the moment. If they will settle for AA talent then have at it. Healthy he would be a stud for us.

ARoDfan4life
03-19-08, 09:50 AM
I'd like to kick Billy Beane ala Shelley Duncan :mad:

BillBuckner
03-19-08, 09:56 AM
Intriguging. No suprise though that Bean's being tight fisted.

JavyVazquezIsSick
03-19-08, 10:14 AM
I wouldn't even attempt to allow him to start again, I'd just put in right in the BP.

Yankee Tripper
03-19-08, 10:26 AM
The A's are smoking too many drugs. Are they kidding me?

If Harden is healthy that would be a great deal for NYY. Problem is Harden has shoulder issues, not elbow issues so until he shows he won't break down, that price would be too high right now.

edit: Harden is cheap this year and has a reasonable team option for next year so Beane doesn't have to deal for pennies on the dollar.

aeromac76
03-19-08, 10:56 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/18/SP74VLU7F.DTL


I would be very interested...
Problem is:

-What Rich Harden is is a very talented and still somewhat young hurler with a great deal of injury woes and because of them, a 50/50 shot, if that, of ever fulfilling his promise

-What Beane will say Rich Harden is is a very talented fromt of the rotation ace in the best shape of his career who will undoubtedly finally fulfill his potential and so any trade should bring back that value.

No freaking way on earth I give up Kennedy in a deal for him.
They want Marquez OR a guy like Horne, perhaps I could be persuaded to roll the dice..

bigjf
03-19-08, 11:02 AM
HAHAHAHA Ian Kennedy??? Wow. Not that I ever expect the Yanks and Oakland to pull off a trade, but I don't think I'd cough up anything higher than Kei Igawa and Sean Henn for Harden...and that's not to say that I would make that deal either. Hell, I wouldn't give up Kennedy for Blanton either. Beane needs to be fired.

YASS
03-19-08, 11:04 AM
HAHAHAHA Ian Kennedy??? Wow. Not that I ever expect the Yanks and Oakland to pull off a trade, but I don't think I'd cough up anything higher than Kei Igawa and Sean Henn for Harden...and that's not to say that I would make that deal either. Hell, I wouldn't give up Kennedy for Blanton either. Beane needs to be fired.
For acting in the best interests of his ballclub?

Roberto Kelly
03-19-08, 11:07 AM
but I don't think I'd cough up anything higher than Kei Igawa and Sean Henn for Harden...and that's not to say that I would make that deal either.

That trade would be a steal of major proportions.

effdamets
03-19-08, 11:08 AM
Hey guys - I have a Mercedes Benz for sale. The blue-book value is $10,000. It hasn't run in the past 2 years, but what the hell - give me the full price anyway...

Stoopids....

MTYankee23
03-19-08, 11:11 AM
I would be very interested...
Problem is:

-What Rich Harden is is a very talented and still somewhat young hurler with a great deal of injury woes and because of them, a 50/50 shot, if that, of ever fulfilling his promise

-What Beane will say Rich Harden is is a very talented fromt of the rotation ace in the best shape of his career who will undoubtedly finally fulfill his potential and so any trade should bring back that value.

No freaking way on earth I give up Kennedy in a deal for him.
They want Marquez OR a guy like Horne, perhaps I could be persuaded to roll the dice..

Beane will tell Cashman that he once gave 4/40 for a pitcher who wasn't good AND was always injured. At least Harden is a good pitcher when healthy.

Is he in his walk year?

Game4Tino
03-19-08, 11:13 AM
Who wouldn't be interested? The comment about Beane getting fired is a bit over the top. Would you want Cashman fired for asking for another team's best prospects for say, CMW? No, you wouldn't. The man is doing his job, let's stop this fantasy where all GM's are trying to take advantage of the Yankees in their trade demands. Yes, we saw some of this with the Twinkies, but look where it got them. Beane would want ANY teams best prospect for this guy. Sheesh.

MTYankee23
03-19-08, 11:17 AM
Who wouldn't be interested? The comment about Beane getting fired is a bit over the top. Would you want Cashman fired for asking for another team's best prospects for say, CMW? No, you wouldn't. The man is doing his job, let's stop this fantasy where all GM's are trying to take advantage of the Yankees in their trade demands. Yes, we saw some of this with the Twinkies, but look where it got them. Beane would want ANY teams best prospect for this guy. Sheesh.

Seriously, Beane's job isn't to make a fair trade with the Yankees. It's to get the most value possible for his asset.

A's fans would want Beane fired if they found out later on that after he accepted an offer of Sanchez and Marquez, the Yankees would have given up Kennedy and Horne.

primetime714
03-19-08, 11:20 AM
This is a moot point because the A's aren't going to trade him right now. It makes absolutely no sense. They're holding out hope that he'll stay healthy long enough to get his value up to around where it should be.

YASS
03-19-08, 11:21 AM
Hey guys - I have a Mercedes Benz for sale. The blue-book value is $10,000. It hasn't run in the past 2 years, but what the hell - give me the full price anyway...

Stoopids....
Rich Harden has been throwing without pain this spring.

Better analogy:

Hey guys - I have a Mercedes Benz for sale. The blue-book value is $10,000. It's had lots of mechanical problems in the past, but it seems to be running fine right now. If it continues to run well, you're getting a great vehicle for a fair price. But I'm not offering a warranty.

YASS
03-19-08, 11:24 AM
This is a moot point because the A's aren't going to trade him right now. It makes absolutely no sense. They're holding out hope that he'll stay healthy long enough to get his value up to around where it should be.
This makes sense, except that then Beane would be assuming all the risk. If Harden breaks down again before he's traded, he's worth nothing. At least now he can sell the hope of a healthy Rich Harden, and he might get some nice offers.

JeffWeaverFan
03-19-08, 11:32 AM
To me, it doesn't make too much sense for either team. For the A's, why trade him when his value is low? For another team, why trade for him when you still will have to give up talent and his health is still a huge question mark?

Yankee Tripper
03-19-08, 11:37 AM
www.mlbtraderumors.com (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com) summed it up best with this post



If you look at this from each party's point of view, it doesn't seem like a trade could be reached anytime soon. Harden would be a tantalizing #1 starter for the Yankees, but why pay full price for a guy who's pitched 200 innings over the last three years? Replacing Kennedy with Harden could deplete the team's starting pitching depth.

On the other hand, if you're Billy Beane, why trade Harden at a discount right now? He is nowhere near his peak value. The one reason to do it might be if Beane does not believe Harden will return to good health this year or next.

Stupid Flanders
03-19-08, 11:40 AM
HAHAHAHA Ian Kennedy??? Wow. Not that I ever expect the Yanks and Oakland to pull off a trade, but I don't think I'd cough up anything higher than Kei Igawa and Sean Henn for Harden...and that's not to say that I would make that deal either. Hell, I wouldn't give up Kennedy for Blanton either. Beane needs to be fired.
At least nobody can accuse you of over-valueing your own team's prospects

SoCal Pinstriper
03-19-08, 11:46 AM
To me, it doesn't make too much sense for either team. For the A's, why trade him when his value is low? For another team, why trade for him when you still will have to give up talent and his health is still a huge question mark?The logical move for both sides is to let Harden pitch until the deadline. If he stays healthy, he'll be highly soughtafter at that time, and the yankees should be interested. They should at least listen any time a pitcher with Harden's upside is on the market.

Prison Mike
03-19-08, 11:47 AM
HAHAHAHA Ian Kennedy??? Wow. Not that I ever expect the Yanks and Oakland to pull off a trade, but I don't think I'd cough up anything higher than Kei Igawa and Sean Henn for Harden...and that's not to say that I would make that deal either. Hell, I wouldn't give up Kennedy for Blanton either. Beane needs to be fired.

Right- because a GM that doesn't deserve to be fired would be asking for Eric Wordkemper?

aeromac76
03-19-08, 11:54 AM
Rich Harden has been throwing without pain this spring.

Better analogy:

Hey guys - I have a Mercedes Benz for sale. The blue-book value is $10,000. It's had lots of mechanical problems in the past, but it seems to be running fine right now. If it continues to run well, you're getting a great vehicle for a fair price. But I'm not offering a warranty.


Disagree, Harden is not "running". Harden just "started".

In other words, what this really is ..

I have Benz, has not even started for 2 years. But after a little fixing, it started the past few days. I never took it out of the driveway or drive it anywhere, but hey, the thing started!! So BB is $10,000, give me that and we'll call it a day..

That is what this is..
"Running" would be, hey, it is June, Harden has yet to miss a start and after missing 2 years, he has made 10 starts and pitched fine in all of them. Then, maybe you can get "book value".

aeromac76
03-19-08, 12:01 PM
Beane will tell Cashman that he once gave 4/40 for a pitcher who wasn't good AND was always injured. At least Harden is a good pitcher when healthy.

Is he in his walk year?



Invalid argument.. You cannot say to someone, "hey you screwed up once, now screw up again for me" and hope to come away with the deal you like..

MTYankee23
03-19-08, 12:03 PM
Invalid argument.. You cannot say to someone, "hey you screwed up once, now screw up again for me" and hope to come away with the deal you like..

I don't actually think that's what Beane would say, what I do think is that Beane would think Harden has more value to Cashman than what some people seem to claim on here.

aeromac76
03-19-08, 12:04 PM
Who wouldn't be interested? The comment about Beane getting fired is a bit over the top. Would you want Cashman fired for asking for another team's best prospects for say, CMW? No, you wouldn't. The man is doing his job, let's stop this fantasy where all GM's are trying to take advantage of the Yankees in their trade demands. Yes, we saw some of this with the Twinkies, but look where it got them. Beane would want ANY teams best prospect for this guy. Sheesh.

No problem agreeing with that statement now..
But if he demands Kennedy, Marquez and Horne from us (or something similar) and I see him wind up in Boston for far less, I'll be here talking about the Yankee Tax for sure.

I have no problem with GM's asking for the moon. I DO have a problem with them asking for the moon from us but not from anyone else, under the threat that if we don't surrender the moon, they'll deal him to the competition for a song just to spite us..

Colangelo did it, and Bill Smith tried hard to do it. So it does happen, it is not a figment of the Yankee fans imagination.

Gob Rules
03-19-08, 12:06 PM
Kennedy for Harden straight up makes sense for both teams. If Harden is healthy, he'll be better than Kennedy, and Kennedy right now is unproven, or as unproven as Harden is right now. They're both young. I'm not sure if I'd make that trade but in terms of value that's probably the fairest trade.

aeromac76
03-19-08, 12:07 PM
I don't actually think that's what Beane would say, what I do think is that Beane would think Harden has more value to Cashman than what some people seem to claim on here.

I think Harden has value, but not to the point of the players mentioned in the deal that started this thread.
There is no way we should trade Kennedy, Horne and Marquez for Rich Harden.
I'm very interested in Harden, and I'll acquiesce that we need to giove something up for a guy this talented, but only if the A's agree that they cannot expect full return because that talent has been unable to be used for almost 3 years..
If they want full "ace" return value, no thanks.

Like I said, my worry is that if we don't make a move, a team like Boston, also looking for pitching help, will. And while if Boston surrenders the moon for him, then they can have him, I have worries that the price will be far less for them to get him..

aeromac76
03-19-08, 12:10 PM
Kennedy for Harden straight up makes sense for both teams. If Harden is healthy, he'll be better than Kennedy, and Kennedy right now is unproven, or as unproven as Harden is right now. They're both young. I'm not sure if I'd make that trade but in terms of value that's probably the fairest trade.

Disagree.
Kennedy may not have Harden's upside, but his prospect status and ability to step right into a rotation makes his value, IMO, significantly, higher than Rich Harden.

Kennedy is not an injury risk, he is nearly a guarantee to pitch every 5 days. And while he'll never have Harden's upside, at least Kennedy will be showing his wares. Harden, the chances are less than 50/50.

Nope, not giving up a piece of my 5 man rotation for him. Too risky.
They have to take minor leaguers, and I will give them some with upside, but nothing that would leave me short in the rotation if Harden winds up in the OR or on the DL again..

SoCal Pinstriper
03-19-08, 12:13 PM
Rich Harden rhp
4 years/$9M (2005-08), plus $7M 2009 club option

* $1M signing bonus
* 05:$0.5M, 06:$1M, 07:$2M, 08:$4.5M, 09:$7M club option (no buyout)
* escalators based on IP
* signed extension 4/05, replacing 1 year/$0.3365M for 2005 signed 3/05
* ML service: 4.074 http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/oakland-athletics.html

YankeesAce4Life
03-19-08, 12:13 PM
Beane will tell Cashman that he once gave 4/40 for a pitcher who wasn't good AND was always injured. At least Harden is a good pitcher when healthy.

Is he in his walk year?

Damn you...I was going to say..."We already have a guy like this named Carl Pavano."


:mad:

bigjf
03-19-08, 12:14 PM
At least nobody can accuse you of over-valueing your own team's prospects

Kennedy carries more value than Harden right now.

YankeesAce4Life
03-19-08, 12:18 PM
Kennedy carries more value than Harden right now.

You think?:P

dont_ya_know24
03-19-08, 12:19 PM
marquez and gardner.

ARoDfan4life
03-19-08, 12:23 PM
marquez and gardner.

which Gardner ?

Yankee Tripper
03-19-08, 12:24 PM
Nope, not giving up a piece of my 5 man rotation for him. Too risky.
They have to take minor leaguers, and I will give them some with upside, but nothing that would leave me short in the rotation if Harden winds up in the OR or on the DL again..
Who would you give up?

Would Horne, Marquez & B. Gardner be a good deal for either team?

bigjf
03-19-08, 12:26 PM
For acting in the best interests of his ballclub?

He knows he's not going to get an important piece to the Yankees puzzle, especially not another pitcher like Kennedy. Maybe if he was asking for Britton or Veras or someone like that, but the Yanks aren't going to give up a cheap young starter with decent upside for a guy who may or may not toe the rubber and give a halfway decent performance. We might as well give Pavano a contract extension rather than go after Harden.

MTYankee23
03-19-08, 12:27 PM
Kennedy carries more value than Harden right now.

To the Yankees he definitely does because they need the innings from someone with Joba and Hughes having inning limits and Mussina being a question mark based on what he has left in the tank.

ARoDfan4life
03-19-08, 12:31 PM
Who would you give up?

Would Horne, Marquez & B. Gardner be a good deal for either team?

for what ! WHY !, this dude is an injury waiting to happen unless it's a straight up like Marquez for Harden but no way you give up more than that for a TJS waiting to happen.

Yankee Tripper
03-19-08, 12:33 PM
To the Haren haters I'd like to point out the guy has an MLB line of 1.26 WHIP, 8.5 k/9 and 3.60 ERA who doesn't turn 27 until November. Ability is not the question with Rich, only health. The guy's ceiling (granted he may never reach it) is multiple cy-young award winner, the same can not be said of any of the prospects talked about in this thread.

Yankee Tripper
03-19-08, 12:46 PM
for what ! WHY !, this dude is an injury waiting to happen unless it's a straight up like Marquez for Harden but no way you give up more than that for a TJS waiting to happen.

Yes, because AA pitchers who allow more than hit per inning and fail to have a K/9 rate over 6 are oh, so valuable.

ARoDfan4life
03-19-08, 01:01 PM
Yes, because AA pitchers who allow more than hit per inning and fail to have a K/9 rate over 6 are oh, so valuable.
yes cause god knows we need another guy that makes Pavano look like a warrior :o

YASS
03-19-08, 01:03 PM
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/oakland-athletics.html
He's very reasonably priced .. if he can pitch to his potential.

I wouldn't bite right now.

YASS
03-19-08, 01:05 PM
No problem agreeing with that statement now..
But if he demands Kennedy, Marquez and Horne from us (or something similar) and I see him wind up in Boston for far less, I'll be here talking about the Yankee Tax for sure.

I have no problem with GM's asking for the moon. I DO have a problem with them asking for the moon from us but not from anyone else, under the threat that if we don't surrender the moon, they'll deal him to the competition for a song just to spite us..

Colangelo did it, and Bill Smith tried hard to do it. So it does happen, it is not a figment of the Yankee fans imagination.
If, by this, you mean you think the Yankee offer for Santana was significantly stronger than the Sox offer, I disagree.

(Sorry, I was gone all winter and I missed this debate when it happened. :))

YASS
03-19-08, 01:08 PM
Disagree, Harden is not "running". Harden just "started".

In other words, what this really is ..

I have Benz, has not even started for 2 years. But after a little fixing, it started the past few days. I never took it out of the driveway or drive it anywhere, but hey, the thing started!! So BB is $10,000, give me that and we'll call it a day..

That is what this is..
"Running" would be, hey, it is June, Harden has yet to miss a start and after missing 2 years, he has made 10 starts and pitched fine in all of them. Then, maybe you can get "book value".
OK, let's split the difference:

"I have a Benz that has broken down frequently for the past two years. It's ALWAYS in the shop. But now it starts and I've driven it slowly around the neighborhood. I think the thing would be fine on the highway, but I can't promise it will. Book value is $10,000. Go ahead and write me a check for that amount and it's yours."

The Yankee Way
03-19-08, 01:10 PM
This is a moot point because the A's aren't going to trade him right now. It makes absolutely no sense. They're holding out hope that he'll stay healthy long enough to get his value up to around where it should be.
Exactly. This is a bad time to trade Harden for both the A's and potential trade partners. I would hate this trade anyways for us. Harden is high-risk, high-reward, which is exactly what the Yankees don't need. With this offense, I'd rather look for someone who profiles as a 200 IP horse with an average ERA. Stability in the rotation will lead to easy 8-5 type wins.

aeromac76
03-19-08, 01:12 PM
Who would you give up?

Would Horne, Marquez & B. Gardner be a good deal for either team?

How about Gardner and Horne OR Marquez??

I think all 3 is alot for a guy who cannot prove he will stay on the mound past April..
But I'll hand over Garder and one of the pitchers..

aeromac76
03-19-08, 01:13 PM
OK, let's split the difference:

"I have a Benz that has broken down frequently for the past two years. It's ALWAYS in the shop. But now it starts and I've driven it slowly around the neighborhood. I think the thing would be fine on the highway, but I can't promise it will. Book value is $10,000. Go ahead and write me a check for that amount and it's yours."

Fair enough, but then I'd say no without a warranty..

aeromac76
03-19-08, 01:16 PM
If, by this, you mean you think the Yankee offer for Santana was significantly stronger than the Sox offer, I disagree.

(Sorry, I was gone all winter and I missed this debate when it happened. :))

No, not the offers that the Yankees or Sox made per se..more what the Twins demanded from each.

But what I heard was that the Twins wanted Hughes, Kennedy and Melky.
There was not one Red Sox crop of players that came close to that..

Toward the end, when Smith freaked and panicked, things may have changed, but at the winter meetings he wanted Hughes, Kennedy and Melky.
Nothing else rumored from any other team involved was even on the same planet.

YASS
03-19-08, 01:16 PM
Fair enough, but then I'd say no without a warranty..
So would I.

YASS
03-19-08, 01:19 PM
No, not the offers that the Yankees or Sox made per se..more what the Twins demanded from each.

But what I heard was that the Twins wanted Hughes, Kennedy and Melky.
There was not one Red Sox crop of players that came close to that..

Toward the end, when Smith freaked and panicked, things may have changed, but at the winter meetings he wanted Hughes, Kennedy and Melky.
Nothing else rumored from any other team involved was even on the same planet.
Well, I don't know what the Twins demanded from each team, but the actual offers tendered by both teams (if we can believe we heard the true story about what they were) were comparable, IMO.

dont_ya_know24
03-19-08, 01:21 PM
is he pitching right now? if not, when is he due back?

Yankee Tripper
03-19-08, 01:23 PM
How about Gardner and Horne OR Marquez??

I think all 3 is alot for a guy who cannot prove he will stay on the mound past April..
But I'll hand over Garder and one of the pitchers..
Fair enough. I'd do that deal from NYY side, but I doubt Beane would without a 3rd prospect.

As others have said, unless the Yanks are willing to gamble now on Harden's health and Beane is willing to take say 90 cents on the dollar for Harden I don't see a deal happening.

On the flip side if Harden does show he's healthy and teams inquire in June/July my guess is Beane's asking price probably starts with a package slightly less than what Haren netted because you'd be dealing for 1.5 years of Harden v 3 years of Haren.

SoCal Pinstriper
03-19-08, 01:24 PM
He's very reasonably priced .. if he can pitch to his potential.

I wouldn't bite right now. Would depend on the price, but I'd like to see him get to the deadline too. If he does, I'd be very interested. He's still young, and I'm a sucker for upside.

JeterRodriguezSheff
03-19-08, 01:26 PM
Hey guys - I have a Mercedes Benz for sale. The blue-book value is $10,000. It hasn't run in the past 2 years, but what the hell - give me the full price anyway...

Stoopids....

A healthy Rich Harden would cost Hughes at least. Dont get me wrong I wouldnt do the deal, but full price value for Harden when healthy is more than Kennedy.

Yankee Tripper
03-19-08, 01:28 PM
is he pitching right now? if not, when is he due back?
He's scheduled to start game 2 in Japan against the Red Sox.

He hasn't been that impressive in spring, but he's been pain free.

bigjf
03-19-08, 01:30 PM
A healthy Rich Harden would cost Hughes at least. Dont get me wrong I wouldnt do the deal, but full price value for Harden when healthy is more than Kennedy.

An injury-free Harden would, an injury-prone Harden does not. I don't care how he's feeling right now, he can't erase that kind of history, certainly not this early.

Game4Tino
03-19-08, 01:36 PM
At least nobody can accuse you of over-valueing your own team's prospects

LOL! Bam Bam Muelens anyone, anyone?

Yankyfan
03-19-08, 03:01 PM
This post is just plain funny !! I wouldn't even go Kennedy sraight up for Harden never mind any other prosects. Don't get me wrong I would love Harden on the cheap but not any where near there price.I would do a Britton,Cox and E Duncan but nothing more.

NYDCYankee
03-19-08, 03:29 PM
I would do a Britton,Cox and E Duncan but nothing more.

Oh geez, isn't this your offer for Damaso Marte too?

Basically you just want to give up crap.

just-blaze
03-19-08, 03:32 PM
Fair enough. I'd do that deal from NYY side, but I doubt Beane would without a 3rd prospect.

As others have said, unless the Yanks are willing to gamble now on Harden's health and Beane is willing to take say 90 cents on the dollar for Harden I don't see a deal happening.

On the flip side if Harden does show he's healthy and teams inquire in June/July my guess is Beane's asking price probably starts with a package slightly less than what Haren netted because you'd be dealing for 1.5 years of Harden v 3 years of Haren.

As smart as people think Beane is, why wouldnt he take the 90 cents on the dollar instead of the 30 cents (at best) on the dollar if he would have to take if Harden shows the first sign of injury.

Smart people really dont strike me as the gambling type, especially for that vaunted 10 extra cents.

Yankyfan
03-19-08, 03:35 PM
Oh geez, isn't this your offer for Damaso Marte too?

Basically you just want to give up crap. A little different but yes nothing IMO of great value. I feel giving up alot for a guy who's on the trainers table more then the field would not be a wise move.Also I don't know if you have any knowlege about our farm system but people not myself, do value Cox as a true prospect.

just-blaze
03-19-08, 03:35 PM
He's scheduled to start game 2 in Japan against the Red Sox.

He hasn't been that impressive in spring, but he's been pain free.

That brings up another interesting issue.....

If Harden pitching injury free means he has to pitch with lesser stuff or that his stuff wont come back....would he be worth the gamble or trade.

NYDCYankee
03-19-08, 03:44 PM
A little different but yes nothing IMO of great value. I feel giving up alot for a guy who's on the trainers table more then the field would not be a wise move.Also I don't know if you have any knowlege about our farm system but people not myself, do value Cox as a true prospect.

I do have knowledge of the system and Cox is a real prospect BUT (and I don't know how many time I have to say this) but he just had major arm surgery, nobody is going to want him until he shows he can pitch and I don't even think he is pitching right now.

None of those guys were ranked very highly at all on the Yankees prosepct lists in Baseball America this year. I don't have access to the Prospect Handbook where I am but I don't think any of them even made the top 30, perhaps Cox did.

Yankee Tripper
03-19-08, 03:47 PM
That brings up another interesting issue.....

If Harden pitching injury free means he has to pitch with lesser stuff or that his stuff wont come back....would he be worth the gamble or trade.
Actually he picthed today. His last 2 outings, 11 IP, 3 ER, 9 K.

His stuff has been clocked as high as 97 mph this spring, and consistantly mid-90s right where he was pre-injury.

I know he's been injury prone but he "claims" last year he was rushed back. We'll see what happens but frankly I'd love the yanks to take a chance on him.

I wouldn't deal Kennedy or anyone expected to be on the opening day roster but I wouldn't consider our farm system untouchable like others on this board.

I guess it all comes down to if you think he'll be healthy or not. If he is healthy IMO only Brackman, Sanchez and possibly Bentences in our system have anything close to Harden's ceiling and all 3 are big time injury risks themselves.

just-blaze
03-19-08, 03:51 PM
Actually he picthed today. His last 2 outings, 11 IP, 3 ER, 9 K.

His stuff has been clocked as high as 97 mph this spring, and consistantly mid-90s right where he was pre-injury.

I know he's been injury prone but he "claims" last year he was rushed back. We'll see what happens but frankly I'd love the yanks to take a chance on him.

I wouldn't deal Kennedy or anyone expected to be on the opening day roster but I wouldn't consider our farm system untouchable like others on this board.

I guess it all comes down to if you think he'll be healthy or not. If he is healthy IMO only Brackman, Sanchez and possibly Bentences in our system have anything close to Harden's ceiling and all 3 are big time injury risks themselves.

Christian Garcia is right there with him as well.....but he already has an injury past as well. :(

Yankyfan
03-19-08, 03:58 PM
I do have knowledge of the system and Cox is a real prospect BUT (and I don't know how many time I have to say this) but he just had major arm surgery, nobody is going to want him until he shows he can pitch and I don't even think he is pitching right now.


None of those guys were ranked very highly at all on the Yankees prosepct lists in Baseball America this year. I don't have access to the Prospect Handbook where I am but I don't think any of them even made the top 30, perhaps Cox did. I prefer PP+'s list over BA's but they rank E.Duncan as the 21th prospect and Cox 28 . As You may have figured out I don't value Haden or Marte as high as you seem to. I would trade for them but not at there price or I guess your's either.

YanksFan1992
03-19-08, 04:16 PM
I don't like the current price, but I would love to acquire Harden. He is a very good pitcher in my opinion.

Yankyfan
03-19-08, 04:17 PM
I don't like the current price, but I would love to acquire Harden. He is a very good pitcher in my opinion. I would agree if we could add in "When Healthy"

yanksphan
03-19-08, 04:20 PM
So where can I check out this Mercedes I keep hearing about?

YASS
03-19-08, 04:23 PM
So where can I check out this Mercedes I keep hearing about?
Give me the check first, then I'll let you see it.

HelloNewman
03-19-08, 04:28 PM
Didn't Beane demand Hughes for Kotsay a few years ago?

Move along, nothing to see here.

rodney27nyg
03-19-08, 04:29 PM
the price is being speculated by the reporter... it's not what beane is actually asking for

i would take this news with a grain of salt anyway


Agreed. Also, you can't expect to get a pitcher of Harden's stature for nothing...although I do agree the speculated price is too high.

We would have to give up something of value so...get used to that idea.

rodney27nyg
03-19-08, 04:31 PM
I wouldn't even attempt to allow him to start again, I'd just put in right in the BP.

Interesting option.

rodney27nyg
03-19-08, 04:35 PM
Who wouldn't be interested? The comment about Beane getting fired is a bit over the top. Would you want Cashman fired for asking for another team's best prospects for say, CMW? No, you wouldn't. The man is doing his job, let's stop this fantasy where all GM's are trying to take advantage of the Yankees in their trade demands. Yes, we saw some of this with the Twinkies, but look where it got them. Beane would want ANY teams best prospect for this guy. Sheesh.

I agree, Tino, about Beane just doing his job the best he can but...I disagree with the notion that teams don't try to milk the Yankees more than most other clubs.

primetime714
03-19-08, 06:59 PM
As smart as people think Beane is, why wouldnt he take the 90 cents on the dollar instead of the 30 cents (at best) on the dollar if he would have to take if Harden shows the first sign of injury.

Smart people really dont strike me as the gambling type, especially for that vaunted 10 extra cents.

90 cents on the dollar is a bad analogy in this case because that's not what he is going to get for Harden right now. I mean best case scenario right now he might be able to convince to get a player of Kennedy's caliber and even that is big stretch. A fully healthy Harden gets you a couple highly touted prospects. So if we're going to use the cents of the dollar trading Harden now would probably only get you 50 cents on the dollar.

If Beane is seriously considering trading Harden and is willing to take the current market value that factors in the extreme health risk I'd definitely look into that. I'd love to be able to do a deal with Marquez and Brett Gardner as the main pieces, however we'd likely have to go to at least Horne + (and by + I mean guys like Marquez and Gardner). Although even that wouldn't be that awful. With our pitching depth I think we could afford the risk.

Still I can't see any deal with Harden happening until around the trading deadline at the earliest and if Harden isn't injured by then the price is going to be sky high.

YASS
03-19-08, 07:06 PM
90 cents on the dollar is a bad analogy in this case because that's not what he is going to get for Harden right now. I mean best case scenario right now he might be able to convince to get a player of Kennedy's caliber and even that is big stretch. A fully healthy Harden gets you a couple highly touted prospects. So if we're going to use the cents of the dollar trading Harden now would probably only get you 50 cents on the dollar.

If Beane is seriously considering trading Harden and is willing to take the current market value that factors in the extreme health risk I'd definitely look into that. I'd love to be able to do a deal with Marquez and Brett Gardner as the main pieces, however we'd likely have to go to at least Horne + (and by + I mean guys like Marquez and Gardner). Although even that wouldn't be that awful. With our pitching depth I think we could afford the risk.

Still I can't see any deal with Harden happening until around the trading deadline at the earliest and if Harden isn't injured by then the price is going to be sky high.
Maybe you're right. The odds seem to be against him, but he's a gambler.

If Harden shows himself to be healthy over the course of half a season and performs at a very high level, he'll bring more than Haren did. If he doesn't hold up and the market for him dries up altogether, he's back where he started, which isn't such a bad place to begin with after the Haren deal.

If Harden is healthy and brings the premium price, he'll have restocked his farm system with enough high quality bodies to put the A's back in contention in a couple of years.

bomber999
03-19-08, 08:08 PM
Have there actually been reports of the Yankees looking into Harden or is this just rampant, and ultimately baseless, speculation?

This thread tells me that many think that the Yankees' pitching might need an upgrade. Wouldn't it have been nice, instead of talking about a good pitcher with a significant injury pitcher who will come at a high price in prospects, the Yankees actually had just done what they needed to do to acquire Johan Santana when they had the chance, instead of letting the Mets sneak in and give up a slew of unimpressive prospects for him? By all reports, the Twins actually came back to the Yankees and were not demanding either Hughes or Joba. The Yankees had to have gotten that deal done, but obviously did not.

The non-aquisition of Santana, I fear, will haunt this franchise for years to come, much the way that the Mets' non-acquisition of ARod in 2001 haunted theirs for some time.

Prison Mike
03-19-08, 08:51 PM
The non-aquisition of Santana, I fear, will haunt this franchise for years to come, much the way that the Mets' non-acquisition of ARod in 2001 haunted theirs for some time.

Yeah, remember those guys Wright and Reyes? Wonder where they are these days.

sahara
03-19-08, 09:14 PM
By all reports, the Twins actually came back to the Yankees and were not demanding either Hughes or Joba.

Not so much.

NYDCYankee
03-19-08, 09:22 PM
http://www.gpnc.org/images/jpegs/animals/bobcat.jpg

flymick24
03-19-08, 10:12 PM
the most i would give up is enrique wilson, skippy, and bobby meacham

DaSh 1s
03-20-08, 12:05 AM
Meacham for Harden, get it done.

aeromac76
03-20-08, 08:40 AM
By all reports, the Twins actually came back to the Yankees and were not demanding either Hughes or Joba. The Yankees had to have gotten that deal done, but obviously did not.

Those same reports had the non Joba or Hughes deal being instead Wang AND Kennedy.
That is none the more attractive to me..

The Mets got him for way less than Smith ever even thought to offer him to the Yankees for. Ever..

Rocketman
03-20-08, 11:02 AM
I agree that if the Yankees could have gotten Santana without trading Cano, Hughes or Joba, they had to pull the trigger. I would have been fine trading Wang and Kennedy for him, as good as they are.

I've always thought that not signing Beltran and/or Guerrero (as opposed to Sheffield) were also gigantic mistakes.

Yankyfan
03-20-08, 03:17 PM
the most i would give up is enrique wilson, skippy, and bobby meacham No way i trade Skippy... He's a deal breaker IMO.

BrooklynBotz
03-20-08, 03:25 PM
Meacham for Harden, get it done.
I don't think Meacham has the OPS+ that Beane is looking for.

Yankyfan
03-20-08, 03:36 PM
John is worth a look see. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2008/news/story?id=3303667

JeterRodriguezSheff
03-20-08, 04:42 PM
Didn't Beane demand Hughes for Kotsay a few years ago?

Move along, nothing to see here.

Hughes is a lot more highly regarded than Kennedy and Harden is better than kotsay. This isnt as bad as a deal as people are trying to make it seem. Kennedy is a potential third starter, Harden is a potential Ace. Kennedy is more likely to stay healthy, but Harden has the Ace upside. Its a question of whether we want to take a risk or not, but Beane isnt asking for the moon here.

SoCal Pinstriper
03-20-08, 04:53 PM
Mar 20 Harden tossed six solid innings in his final spring start on Wednesday.Recommendation: Harden owners couldn't have asked for a better spring training for the oft-injured hurler. He'll start the second game of the season for the A's.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7180/news

BobbyMurcerFan
03-20-08, 06:14 PM
the price is being speculated by the reporter... it's not what beane is actually asking for

i would take this news with a grain of salt anywayThese boards would be a lot less fun if everyone actually did that, LOL. J/K Good point. ;)

Yankee Tripper
03-21-08, 03:16 PM
from mlbtrade rumors



To help describe Street's likely high price, Heyman tells us that the A's asked the Yankees for Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes for Joe Blanton. That's odd, given the Yanks' unwillingness to trade that much for Johan Santana.


If this is true, just stop taking Beane's calls.

I know it's about Street but I guess the same would be likely for Harden.

aeromac76
03-21-08, 03:30 PM
from mlbtrade rumors



If this is true, just stop taking Beane's calls.

I know it's about Street but I guess the same would be likely for Harden.


I'd laugh like a clown at a birthday party and then send his cheap butt team the phone bill for the call..

JavyVazquezIsSick
03-21-08, 05:55 PM
:lol: God I love Billy Beane

sahara
03-21-08, 06:01 PM
If Heyman heard that, someone is clearly ................ing with him and he should be smart enough to realize that and not seriously report it.

rodney27nyg
03-22-08, 01:42 AM
If Heyman heard that, someone is clearly ................ing with him and he should be smart enough to realize that and not seriously report it.


When it comes to Beane's asking-price...someone may NOT be ....ing with him.:(

cyhughes22
03-22-08, 12:03 PM
If Heyman heard that, someone is clearly ................ing with him and he should be smart enough to realize that and not seriously report it.

He should also be smart enough to proofread his articles so it's clear that he knows the difference between Dan Haren and Rich Harden because as far as I know, the A's don't have a Rich Haren.:(

sahara
03-22-08, 12:24 PM
Heh. That's true.


When it comes to Beane's asking-price...someone may NOT be ....ing with him.:(

Haren > Blanton, pretty unquestionably.

Look at what Beane got for Haren.

But he's going to demand both Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes for Blanton? I don't think so.

sugmasterflex
03-23-08, 10:19 AM
Heh. That's true.



Haren > Blanton, pretty unquestionably.

Look at what Beane got for Haren.

But he's going to demand both Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes for Blanton? I don't think so.


Beane's asking for both in the hopes of getting one...

bigjf
03-23-08, 01:45 PM
Beane's asking for both in the hopes of getting one...

He's not getting either and he knows that.

teknetic
03-26-08, 07:43 AM
He's probably gonna ask for Tabata and Jackson to be included now :(

Prison Mike
03-26-08, 07:50 AM
Beane is a smart guy- he'll hope Harden is healthy for 5 starts, and then sell while his stock is high. Someone will give up the equivalent of Tabata/Jackson, and Harden will be back on the DL by the All Star break.

yankeesnumber1
03-26-08, 09:13 AM
Beane is a smart guy- he'll hope Harden is healthy for 5 starts, and then sell while his stock is high. Someone will give up the equivalent of Tabata/Jackson, and Harden will be back on the DL by the All Star break.

Thats the scary thing, but the right way to play it. Beane's not foolish.

DaSh 1s
03-26-08, 10:09 AM
Harden was very impressive today not going to lie. 9 SOs in six IP is a beautiful thing.

THEBOSS84
03-26-08, 10:10 AM
Harden was very impressive today not going to lie. 9 SOs in nine IP is a beautiful thing.

How about 9 so's in 6 IP - still beautiful?

I wouldn't touch Harden yet. He worked wonders for my fantasy team today though.

DaSh 1s
03-26-08, 10:20 AM
Ya oops I mean to write six innings I am sorry

just-blaze
03-26-08, 12:07 PM
Beane is a smart guy- he'll hope Harden is healthy for 5 starts, and then sell while his stock is high. Someone will give up the equivalent of Tabata/Jackson, and Harden will be back on the DL by the All Star break.

I think your right.

I would almost think the Yanks should roll the dice anyways and take a shot.

27IsNext
03-26-08, 12:08 PM
I think your right.

I would almost think the Yanks should roll the dice anyways and take a shot.

So wait, you'd be willing to give up Kennedy, Jackson and Tabata for him?

YASS
03-26-08, 12:14 PM
So wait, you'd be willing to give up Kennedy, Jackson and Tabata for him?
I would absolutely be willing to let the Yankees make that deal. ;)

just-blaze
03-26-08, 12:14 PM
So wait, you'd be willing to give up Kennedy, Jackson and Tabata for him?

I didnt say that. I thought Prison Mike was referring to the fact that Harden's value will warrant at least one top prospect.

I would say Horne and Gardner(b/c his value is high)..............however, I know Mr. Bean would say no and wait for better offers.

R.V.47
03-26-08, 12:17 PM
How about 9 so's in 6 IP - still beautiful?

I wouldn't touch Harden yet. He worked wonders for my fantasy team today though.

I agree, its only one start and chances are Billy Beane will put a ridiculous yankee tax on him anyway.

Ynkcpt23
03-26-08, 01:19 PM
I agree, its only one start and chances are Billy Beane will put a ridiculous yankee tax on him anyway.

I'm sure we could land Harden for...let's see...Kennedy, Tabata, Jackson, Horne and Marquez. What a bargain!! ;)

apalradio
03-26-08, 06:21 PM
I would absolutely be willing to let the Yankees make that deal. ;)If we could live with the inevitable growing pains of a rookie pitcher, I would rather keep Kennedy than make such a deal. Kennedy is a potential gem. Jackson and Tabata on top of it? No way. These guys are too valuable and Harden is not worth as high a price as that, imho.

CallOfTheCrow
03-26-08, 06:23 PM
I'm sure we could land Harden for...let's see...Kennedy, Tabata, Jackson, Horne and Marquez. What a bargain!! ;)

Add Betances, Montero, & Jairo Heredia as a sign of good faith just to begin negotiations.

Davios
03-26-08, 06:26 PM
Not for nothing, but I hope today's game puts a little semblance of common sense into the minds of all those mocking the idea of sending Kennedy for Harden.

In Harden you may be getting a guy with a checkered past, but if everything clicks than you have one of the top pitchers in baseball. Kennedy won't be able to do what Harden does on the best day of his career, and thats not to say that Kennedy won't be a good pitcher.

Personally I don't believe Beane would have even accepted Kennedy alone, otherwise I believe Cashman is bright enough to have accepted.

aeromac76
03-26-08, 06:41 PM
Not for nothing, but I hope today's game puts a little semblance of common sense into the minds of all those mocking the idea of sending Kennedy for Harden.

In Harden you may be getting a guy with a checkered past, but if everything clicks than you have one of the top pitchers in baseball. Kennedy won't be able to do what Harden does on the best day of his career, and thats not to say that Kennedy won't be a good pitcher.

Personally I don't believe Beane would have even accepted Kennedy alone, otherwise I believe Cashman is bright enough to have accepted.

Kennedy for Harden straight up? It is very reasonable, def not crazy.
I like Kennedy in that he can be good and has great control, and Harden has health issues, but Harden is a #1 when on and you gotta give something to get something. It is worth discussing.

Problem is, Kennedy is the throw in along with Hughes or Joba in Beane's world..

Ynkcpt23
03-26-08, 07:23 PM
If we could live with the inevitable growing pains of a rookie pitcher, I would rather keep Kennedy than make such a deal. Kennedy is a potential gem. Jackson and Tabata on top of it? No way. These guys are too valuable and Harden is not worth as high a price as that, imho.

Absolutely. Harden does make me consider some alternatives, he is a top-shelf talent when healthy, but we just can't justify what we would have to give up for a guy that could be on the DL in less than a month. To be honest, I wouldn't even trade Tabata straight up for Harden right now. Check back in a couple of months into the season tho' :p

Ynkcpt23
03-26-08, 07:25 PM
Kennedy for Harden straight up? It is very reasonable, def not crazy.
I like Kennedy in that he can be good and has great control, and Harden has health issues, but Harden is a #1 when on and you gotta give something to get something. It is worth discussing.

Problem is, Kennedy is the throw in along with Hughes or Joba in Beane's world..

Exactly. Hey, Billy Beane's a genius--just ask him! :P

Ynkcpt23
03-26-08, 07:26 PM
Add Betances, Montero, & Jairo Heredia as a sign of good faith just to begin negotiations.

Man,...you kill me, that is some funny stuff!!! :-rofl-:

ARoDfan4life
03-27-08, 12:03 AM
Add Betances, Montero, & Jairo Heredia as a sign of good faith just to begin negotiations.
the deal breaker is Kei Igawa ;)

Kluivert4Ever
03-27-08, 12:08 AM
the deal breaker is Kei Igawa ;)


Yes, as in Beane hangs up the phone as soon as he is mentioned;)

flymick24
03-27-08, 12:15 AM
watch, he'll be traded to the red sox for lowrie, masterson, and hansen

ARoDfan4life
03-27-08, 12:18 AM
watch, he'll be traded to the red sox for lowrie, masterson, and hansen
wet dream ?

flymick24
03-27-08, 12:23 AM
gardner, mccutchen, marquez, and hilligoss for harden

do it up

sugmasterflex
03-27-08, 05:03 AM
No way I'm giving up Kennedy for Harden. This guy is injured way too often.

Crash Davis
03-27-08, 10:34 AM
The only way I like taking on overhyped pitchers with a history of injuries is if they're very low risk (low salary) and high ceiling, like how we signed Lieber a couple years back. He was coming off surgery, he rehabbed with us and panned out to make a solid contribution.
Whatever the case may be, a guy like Harden won't "save" our rotation. He'd be solid, but he's a lil' bit too unreliable health-wise for my liking. Let a team like Toronto take him so AJ Burnett has somebody to hang out with on the DL.
I hope we stick with Kennedy...

Ynkcpt23
03-27-08, 10:50 AM
The only way I like taking on overhyped pitchers with a history of injuries is if they're very low risk (low salary) and high ceiling, like how we signed Lieber a couple years back. He was coming off surgery, he rehabbed with us and panned out to make a solid contribution.
Whatever the case may be, a guy like Harden won't "save" our rotation. He'd be solid, but he's a lil' bit too unreliable health-wise for my liking. Let a team like Toronto take him so AJ Burnett has somebody to hang out with on the DL.
I hope we stick with Kennedy...

Burnett's on the DL already?!?! ;)

flymick24
03-27-08, 11:14 AM
funny thing is that kennedy may end up on the DL soon too, with his mechanics (i hope not though)

JavyVazquezIsSick
03-27-08, 11:42 AM
Would love Harden, have no idea how to get him. I would not be willing to include Kennedy, but Kennedy's mechanics are troublesome (from that article correct)?

sahara
03-27-08, 11:53 AM
O'Leary and others don't like his (Kennedy's) inverted W.

If you subscribe to our friend Carlos Gomez's analysis, he didn't think Kennedy's mechanics were awful. Just not otherworldly. IIRC.

Yankee Tripper
04-02-08, 04:17 PM
Today - 5IP 0R 6K

For those keeping score at home that's 11 IP, 1 R, & 15 Ks against the Red Sox this year.

NYDCYankee
04-02-08, 05:00 PM
Today - 5IP 0R 6K

For those keeping score at home that's 11 IP, 1 R, & 15 Ks against the Red Sox this year.

I love him.

Prison Mike
04-02-08, 09:24 PM
With Moose's poor outting today, I can already hear the rumor mill starting.

Kulish29
04-03-08, 02:15 PM
With Moose's poor outting today, I can already hear the rumor mill starting.

Why? If Moose finally does fizzle out, they'll just remove Joba from the pen and put him into the rotation.

I love the potential Harden has. But, he seems to do this all the time. He dazzles you with his talent and then, WHAM, he's out for an extended period of time with an injury.

Another thing about Harden, is it just me or, does he always seem to get his injuries while playing the Yankees?

just-blaze
04-03-08, 02:22 PM
With Moose's poor outting today, I can already hear the rumor mill starting.

Add to that that the Red Sox are interested as well........

Johan pt. II anybody?

JavyVazquezIsSick
04-03-08, 02:39 PM
The Red Sox are interesting, thats surprising.

YASS
04-03-08, 02:43 PM
The Red Sox are interesting, thats surprising.
I've always found them interesting, too.

JavyVazquezIsSick
04-03-08, 03:43 PM
Dammit

oneill96
04-03-08, 04:04 PM
Who cares, of course they are!! They need pitching as much as we do.

flymick24
04-03-08, 04:14 PM
watch, he'll be traded to the red sox for lowrie, masterson, and hansen

wait for it

Prison Mike
04-03-08, 04:48 PM
Add to that that the Red Sox are interested as well........

Johan pt. II anybody?

Followed by the Sabathia next winter for pt. III.

StatenIslandYankee
04-03-08, 09:00 PM
Harden if healthy ... is an ACE!

JavyVazquezIsSick
04-03-08, 09:32 PM
wait for it

I don't think Billy is the kind of guy that follows media hype.

flymick24
04-03-08, 09:46 PM
well, he's a better GM than bill smith, i'll give him that much

aeromac76
04-03-08, 09:56 PM
Followed by the Sabathia next winter for pt. III.

Nah, that will be simple free agency, and typically they follow the most money, which we can offer above any team..

There will be no trade here, just cash..

THEBOSS84
04-03-08, 09:56 PM
well, he's a better GM than bill smith, i'll give him that much

So are you

cyhughes22
04-03-08, 10:32 PM
Why? If Moose finally does fizzle out, they'll just remove Joba from the pen and put him into the rotation.

I love the potential Harden has. But, he seems to do this all the time. He dazzles you with his talent and then, WHAM, he's out for an extended period of time with an injury.

Another thing about Harden, is it just me or, does he always seem to get his injuries while playing the Yankees?

But therein lies the genius. If he is a Yankee, then he can't play against the Yankees.:D

Ynkcpt23
04-04-08, 09:03 AM
I've always found them interesting, too.

Smart A**. I mean that in the nicest way!

THEBOSS84
04-07-08, 09:27 PM
It has begun:


The A's have pushed Rich Harden back from his scheduled start Tuesday and will go with Chad Gaudin instead.

Early reports suggested he was just being pushed back one day, but the Chronicle thinks he could land on the DL, even though there's nothing known about why he was scratched. If Harden doesn't pitch on Wednesday, then Lenny DiNardo could get the nod.

Per Rotoworld

Prison Mike
04-07-08, 10:05 PM
Looks like Beane waited too long. Guess he should have pulled the trigger after that first start.

flymick24
04-07-08, 11:15 PM
who had the uner on 2 starts?

StatenIslandYankee
04-07-08, 11:32 PM
It has begun:



Per RotoworldJesus man. Will he ever stay healthy? :mad: I have such a thing for Harden. I wish he could stay healthy.

Rocketman
04-08-08, 12:18 AM
You must be kidding. 2 starts?

flymick24
04-08-08, 01:39 AM
rotoworld now reporting that he'll go on sunday, so no DL for him.... yet

DaSh 1s
04-08-08, 10:48 AM
Does anyone know what type of contract Harden is currently under? $/years?

THEBOSS84
04-08-08, 10:49 AM
Does anyone know what type of contract Harden is currently under? $/years?

The A's have a $7 mil option on him after this season. If they decline it, he's a free agent.

JavyVazquezIsSick
04-08-08, 01:59 PM
Back Issues?

yarosh25
04-08-08, 09:52 PM
I think I saw on ESPN it is an arm strain.

Yankee Tripper
04-09-08, 10:54 AM
It is a muscle in his back connected just below the shoulder blade. Too me that may be a red flag since the shoulder has been problem each of the last 3 years and initial reports from out here in Oakland were a sore muscle in his side. We'll see if it is just the one start it is no big deal as this happens sometimes to pitchers early in the season but given his track record the last 3 years it is clearly more worriesome for the A's and Harden in this particular case.

flymick24
04-09-08, 10:58 PM
he'll end up pitching 200 inning next year (his walk year) and then sign a massive, carl pavano-esque contract somewhere

Ynkcpt23
04-10-08, 09:40 AM
he'll end up pitching 200 inning next year (his walk year) and then sign a massive, carl pavano-esque contract somewhere

I agree. There's always somebody ready to shell out for potential. Just hope it's not us.

THEBOSS84
04-10-08, 09:42 AM
he'll end up pitching 200 inning next year (his walk year) and then sign a massive, carl pavano-esque contract somewhere

This is probably his walk year if he stays hurt. The A's have a $7 mil option on him for 2008. They won't pick it up if he doesn't make more than 15-20 starts.

Yankee Tripper
04-10-08, 10:55 AM
This is probably his walk year if he stays hurt. The A's have a $7 mil option on him for 2008. They won't pick it up if he doesn't make more than 15-20 starts.
true dat. If he doesn't make 15-20 starts though I like your idea of converting him to reliever and see if his arm holds up to 65 - 75 IP of bullpen domination since it's looking like 200 IP of starting is becoming something of a pipe dream with him. Kind of the Kerry Wood route with him.

primetime714
04-11-08, 12:26 PM
This is probably his walk year if he stays hurt. The A's have a $7 mil option on him for 2008. They won't pick it up if he doesn't make more than 15-20 starts.

Yea it definitely could be. If his injury problems persist until near the trading deadline by which the time the A's will likely be out of it. That would be a great time for us to pick him up because if he gets healthy by the playoffs he is an ace caliber starter. Then 1year 7M for 2009 might be worth the gamble for a guy with his talent.

DaSh 1s
04-11-08, 12:28 PM
Whelp its official. He is on the DL per ESPN. How far did his value drop??

bigjf
04-11-08, 02:01 PM
Whelp its official. He is on the DL per ESPN. How far did his value drop??

Enough that I'd say "Have a great season" to Billy Beane.

primetime714
04-11-08, 03:15 PM
Enough that I'd say "Have a great season" to Billy Beane.

Well actually now Harden's value might be low enough that we wouldn't have to give up any of our top guys to get him.

THEBOSS84
04-11-08, 03:17 PM
Well actually now Harden's value might be low enough that we wouldn't have to give up any of our top guys to get him.

True - knowing that this new injury is not related to any old shoulder issues, what would you realistically give up for him TODAY?

YASS
04-11-08, 03:18 PM
Well actually now Harden's value might be low enough that we wouldn't have to give up any of our top guys to get him.
Which is exactly why Beane won't let him go now. He won't sell while his value is at its lowest. He'll wait until he's back in the rotation before he starts fielding offers.

THEBOSS84
04-11-08, 03:20 PM
Which is exactly why Beane won't let him go now. He won't sell while his value is at its lowest. He'll wait until he's back in the rotation before he starts fielding offers.

The problem for Beane is that he knows Harden, and he knows it's no guarantee he makes it back to the rotation this year.

YASS
04-11-08, 03:22 PM
The problem for Beane is that he knows Harden, and he knows it's no guarantee he makes it back to the rotation this year.
Yeah, it depends on what his true condition is. If his condition is such that he won't be able to pitch again this year, his value is practically nil.

I still think Beane will wait for that train to pull into the station again (even though he missed it the first time) and won't trade him unless he can get value for him.

THEBOSS84
04-11-08, 03:24 PM
Yeah, it depends on what his true condition is. If his condition is such that he won't be able to pitch again this year, his value is practically nil.

I still think Beane will wait for that train to pull into the station again (even though he missed it the first time) and won't trade him unless he can get value for him.

Well the clock is ticking towards a $7 million option at year's end. If Harden is out for the year, Beane missed out on some high upside prospects, no doubt.

Yankee Tripper
04-11-08, 03:34 PM
Where's my mercedes?

primetime714
04-11-08, 09:18 PM
Well the clock is ticking towards a $7 million option at year's end. If Harden is out for the year, Beane missed out on some high upside prospects, no doubt.

Exactly. If Harden struggles with injuries up until the deadline I could see the A's just looking to deal him in almost a salary dump type of move knowing that they would've pick up that option. It'd still cost probably a decent prospect but certainly not a top prospect.

I'd really love to get him at the deadline and hope that he can come back late in the year and maybe help in the playoffs. Then next year we'd probably take the 7M gamble.

SoCal Pinstriper
05-17-08, 09:00 PM
Harden tonight:

Oakland IP H R ER BB K HR Season ERA R. Harden (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7180) 7.0ip 4h 1r 1er 1bb 8k 0hr 2.91era to date


The guy is the biggest tease in the game. I would love to see him in pinstripes (if he is healthy).

He is still only 27yo.

CallOfTheCrow
05-17-08, 09:09 PM
Harden tonight:

Oakland IP H R ER BB K HR Season ERA R. Harden (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7180) 7.0ip 4h 1r 1er 1bb 8k 0hr 2.91era to date


The guy is the biggest tease in the game. I would love to see him in pinstripes (if he is healthy).

He is still only 27yo.

After having to trade Hughes, Betances, & Jackson...he'd probably throw his arm out on the first pitch with the Yankees.

JDPNYY
05-17-08, 10:15 PM
Harden wouldn't want to play for a team that stinks.

Smartin681
05-17-08, 10:17 PM
Harden wouldn't want to play for a team that stinks.

Well lucky for us he doesn't have a NTC.

smckdwn989
05-18-08, 09:00 AM
this guy is the Ben Sheets of the AL, no thanks.

nnysiny
05-18-08, 09:05 AM
Harden wouldn't want to play for a team that stinks.
and the Yankees wouldnt want a righty starter who cant provide innings. this is a mismatch